Hi Anon! Well, I definitely agree that he most likely didn’t kill his parents himself and was manipulated by the one(s) who wanted Vincent dead, but still, if he was mostly motivated by his ideal to “stay with his lil brother forever” then a part of me can’t be sure that his brotherly love wasn’t pathological on some level.
Or if it wasn’t in the past, it now is anyway, so the result is kinda the same.
@akumadeenglish‘s post explains it way better than I, but if there is a real emphasis on the notion of “just the two of us” (disregarding even their still living family), then frankly I wonder how far he was ready to go in the first place. I mean, we can’t know what was the initial deal if this theory is correct:
was it just a promise that there was a way for both twins to stay together?
or was it a more precise demand, like maybe making Vincent and Rachel disappear in an accident, so that the twins would rule the Phantomhive household together?
I can’t say that I know the twin enough to make a difference between pathological brotherly love or just a simple strong affection between children, but…
for now at least, I think it could easily be either possibilities.
…Forgive me for the slight digression Anon, but do you read/watch Shingeki no kyojin? I apologize in advance if it’s boring, but the other day the idea struck me that real!Ciel could have a huge parallel with a character from SnK: a dude who, as a kid of 6 years old, sold his own parents to the enemy side, because…
His past aside, to this day there is something still wrong with this dude anyway. We don’t exactly know which side he is on, but trusting him fully would be a bad idea.
So back to the main topic, in my opinion, something similar could have happened with real!Ciel. It’s not that he hated his family but…
…being forced to become Vincent’s heir because he was the first born, while his little brother had more than one way to move on from a life with him because he wasn’t, might have triggered something within him.
In other words, if the RCMT is correct, then what happened on December 14th…
might have been a huge miscalculation on his part because all he wanted was simply a way for him and our!Ciel to stay together
might have gone slightly according to his plan (even though he was still manipulated), if he decided that whatever would happen to his parents was a necessary damage in order for him and his brother to stay together forever: maybe he even thought that his parents were the problem in the first place, because they didn’t allow him not to be Earl and didn’t stop our!Ciel from leaving him.
It’s just that currently, we don’t have enough info to dismiss either idea in my opinion.
Where I agree though is that Seb killing real!Ciel won’t mean that the contract is fulfilled, since real!Ciel isn’t the mastermind but a pawn who got thrown away when it was done being useful:
It’s not a funny topic, I know :// Besides, it’s just my personal opinion, you don’t have to agree with any of it.
Have a nice weekend Anon. :3
OMG Anon, nah don’t worry, I was just wondering about stuff, it actually doesn’t make that much sense and in fact my thoughts about the mastermind behind the current arc didn’t particulaly change. ^^”
There are two suspects for now as to who brought back the twin, for me: UT and the Queen/Brown, but I explained before why I was (and still am) meh about UT.
My tags of above were regarding a slight possible issue if the RCMT is correct, so it’s entirely theoretical and I was just thinking: 4 years ago, who did real!Ciel make a deal with? Did he see/meet with the mastermind behind December 14th at least once? Did he know exactly who betrayed him, which led to what happened with the cult?
Because if the answer is “yes”, then initially I thought that if Brown/the Queen were behind it all, then it wouldn’t make a lot of sense of them to bring back the twin when he might know just who betrayed him 4 years ago.
However, since there is literally no guarantee that real!Ciel would know just who discarded him like a pawn 4 years ago (since I think the mastermind of 4 years ago is someone very clever), then that’s why for now it’s not really useful or interesting to consider that idea.
Besides, completely opposite issue, but if the RCMT is correct and real!Ciel is partially responsible for Vincent’s death, then I don’t know how UT would handle that fact as a possible suspect for the mastermind behind the blue sect. Would he still want to bring back the twin, once he’d see his cinematic record? Or would he put the blame on the person who manipulated the twin?
At this point it probably depends on what real!Ciel’s plan was in the first place (did he just want a way for him and his bro to stay together, or did he consider his parents to be a “problem” getting in the way of that?).
So as you can see, maybe the RCMT being accurate change a few things regarding who the mastermind behind the current arc is, but:
if we say the mastermind is Brown/the Queen, then that means that if they’re also the ones behind 4 years ago, real!Ciel really was manipulated with no idea as to whom destroyed his plan, his family and himself.
if we say the mastermind is UT, then would UT even want to bring back the person who’s partially responsible for Vincent’s death (again, depending on what real!Ciel’s plan was in the first place)?
That’s why I said it was a little confusing. ^^” For now, it’s best to act as if you didn’t see my tags. xD UT and Brown/the Queen are still the two main suspects and, to this day, I still think UT makes less sense considering what we saw of the arc so far, even if I could be totally wrong.
Sorry for the confusion, Anon! :3 You didn’t overlook anything, it was just me rambling as always. :))
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Hi Anon! Well, I definitely agree that he most likely didn’t kill his parents himself and was manipulated by the one(s) who wanted Vincent dead, but still, if he was mostly motivated by his ideal to “stay with his lil brother forever” then a part of me can’t be sure that his brotherly love wasn’t pathological on some level.
Or if it wasn’t in the past, it now is anyway, so the result is kinda the same.
@akumadeenglish‘s post explains it way better than I, but if there is a real emphasis on the notion of “just the two of us” (disregarding even their still living family), then frankly I wonder how far he was ready to go in the first place. I mean, we can’t know what was the initial deal if this theory is correct:
was it just a promise that there was a way for both twins to stay together?
or was it a more precise demand, like maybe making Vincent and Rachel disappear in an accident, so that the twins would rule the Phantomhive household together?
I can’t say that I know the twin enough to make a difference between pathological brotherly love or just a simple strong affection between children, but…
for now at least, I think it could easily be either possibilities.
…Forgive me for the slight digression Anon, but do you read/watch Shingeki no kyojin? I apologize in advance if it’s boring, but the other day the idea struck me that real!Ciel could have a huge parallel with a character from SnK: a dude who, as a kid of 6 years old, sold his own parents to the enemy side, because…
His past aside, to this day there is something still wrong with this dude anyway. We don’t exactly know which side he is on, but trusting him fully would be a bad idea.
So back to the main topic, in my opinion, something similar could have happened with real!Ciel. It’s not that he hated his family but…
…being forced to become Vincent’s heir because he was the first born, while his little brother had more than one way to move on from a life with him because he wasn’t, might have triggered something within him.
In other words, if the RCMT is correct, then what happened on December 14th…
might have been a huge miscalculation on his part because all he wanted was simply a way for him and our!Ciel to stay together
might have gone slightly according to his plan (even though he was still manipulated), if he decided that whatever would happen to his parents was a necessary damage in order for him and his brother to stay together forever: maybe he even thought that his parents were the problem in the first place, because they didn’t allow him not to be Earl and didn’t stop our!Ciel from leaving him.
It’s just that currently, we don’t have enough info to dismiss either idea in my opinion.
Where I agree though is that Seb killing real!Ciel won’t mean that the contract is fulfilled, since real!Ciel isn’t the mastermind but a pawn who got thrown away when it was done being useful:
It’s not a funny topic, I know :// Besides, it’s just my personal opinion, you don’t have to agree with any of it.
…doesn’t it look like she didn’t lie, since Arima spoke of the same subject with the same fatality?
If you’re considering Itori to only be a stinky liar, then I’m not going to try and persuade you that the subject of hybrid babies in TG ch34 showed a blatant change in her attitude (as if we had addressed a personal issue), but anyway…
the example of Ukina having to eat human meat in order for Eto to be able to be born seems to perfectly illustrate her words, in my opinion?
I wouldn’t say that I trust most of the things that come from any Clowns because that would be very naive, especially since Itori did… conveniently hide stuff more than once, but at the same time…
…even the Clowns have a personal history and reasons for doing what they are doing and I chose to believe long ago that Sensei was able to give depth to all his characters, including Itori, despite her tendencies to manipulate others.
In other words, since Itori and Uta foreshadowed the events happening between Kaneki and Touka long ago…
…I think that what Itori briefly said about hybrid pregnancies with a ghoul mama will be addressed again, once we’re done with the current arc. I even proposed a theory on the subject, about what it might imply, if you’re interested. 🙂
I hope it answers your question, have a nice weekend Anon and don’t worry, I don’t think anyone fully trusts the Clowns. 😉
but then the embryo/fetus, or even the mama herself…
are transferred to incubators for the rest of the pregnancy, in order for the baby to get all the essential nutrients it needs and to be born.
This would explain why half-humans in the sunlit garden are more than few when Itori said that the chance of a (terminated) pregnancy was extremely slim. Another option would be to say that maybe Itori was just speaking of hybrids as in “OEG” and not “half human” in ch34, since a OEG is rarer than a half human (at least when the hybrid’s mama is human).
TL;DR I haven’t changed my mind 🙂 I think the discussion that took place with Itori and Kaneki, while Uta and Yomo were listening in ch34, is relevant to Touka’s pregnancy and will be mentioned again. 🙂
It’s totally okay if you disagree though, Anon! Have a nice weekend!
…especially since we know he’s not as naive as Bard, Mey and Finny can be. 🙂
Tanaka has always been a real MVP for me, because he’s probably one of the few who knows many answers we’re after (about Claudia, about Vincent and December 14th, about the twins, about Seb) and since I always associate him to Frances in my theories (for the following reasons), I wouldn’t be surprised if she knew too, especially considering the Phantomhive lineage stuff:
As for the rest of them though, I agree some characters (Finny and probably the other servants, Liz of course, maybe Ed, Soma, Sieglinde) are bound to find out at some point about Seb’s true nature and/or about Ciel selling his soul to a demon.
I don’t think it’s something that’s easy to believe though, even despite hearing some weird sentences or witnessing a strange event, unless it’s on the scale of what Arthur witnessed or if you’re Sieglinde, because as a “witch” she apparently knew about a few rituals.
Demons in Kuroverse belong with religion and faith, so for most people they’re not “supposed to be real” and mostly, they’re not supposed to be your friend’s/cousin’s butler or even your boss at work. In that aspect, I think that most characters who will eventually find out about Seb will need either a big proof or a huge shock effect, like what happened to Arthur.
In the end, Sieglinde aside because she saw the seals even if she came to a wrong conclusion, Ed and Liz are the ones who will probably come to the realization more easily since they saw and fought against Bizarre Dolls which was a completely unnatural experience (and besides, they might share the Phantomhive lineage, which seems to make visible at least Shinigamis, if not maybe other supernatural creatures’ true form).
Liz in particular will most likely be heartbroken once she finds out, especially now that she found out about Ciel’s other big secret but…
surely she’ll keep on fighting, no matter what. It’s actually one of the few things I hardly have a doubt about in Kuro. x)
Anyway, I don’t feel comfortable enough to discuss Judgement between Heaven and Hell, so I’ll refrain from theorizing who will go where if/when they die. 🙂
Otherwise
I hope that I managed to answer your question Anon. Have a nice weekend! ^_^
midnight-in-town 