Well, we don’t know for certain. She could have meant that she has a different blood type than real Ciel and therefore she can’t help in providing him with the blood he seems to be needing.
Or what I could also imagine (and I actually prefer this idea) is that Lizzy means real Ciel’s state in general. If at this point real Ciel was already able to talk to Lizzy she surely noticed that he has changed.
Lizzy is clearly desperate and very sad at the moment. And it’s no wonder. She learned that our Ciel has lied to her about his identity. But she clearly cares about him very much and I think her affection to our Ciel (who she believed was real Ciel) grew even more over the past four years. But now that she knows the truth and that the twin has actually returned it makes the situation very difficult for Lizzy because she feels it’s her duty as real Ciel’s fiancée to stay by his side. But real Ciel isn’t who he used to be and Lizzy surely sees that, too. She’s aware that things can’t go back to how they used to be, especially since real Ciel doesn’t seem to have any good intentions now. So when Lizzy says that she can’t save real Ciel she might refer to him having changed like that and that Lizzy is aware that she can’t change him back to how he used to be and that real Ciel is beyond saving in that regard.
you aren’t bothering me! i’m terrible at answering asks but i love them all ❤
hmmm… depends on how you see it! it could mean he confirmed god’s existence but i interpreted it in a less literal sense, with sebastian emphasizing the severity behind ciel’s change in faith rather than the actual truth behind it. ha– that’s hard to explain. whether or not god is real, sebastian can still see the weight that turning your back against any god has for humanity. … or something like that.
since yana touches on multiple religions across kuro, i can’t say i’d ever expect her to confirm one as more right above another. seems like she’s going for her own vision of things, which i like! it’s interesting
Hello everyone! I am here on this lovely Monday to discuss my thoughts and feelings about the newest chapter of our beloved series. First up are my initial thoughts with some analysis a bit later on.
I have to say, these sad Ken faces make my heart a bit heavier every time. He looks especially forlorn in some of these panels:
It does not help that “Rize” is really slamming this boy. Her comments may not be wrong, but they are definitely harsh:
On a related note, I am starting to have trouble telling if this is just Ken roasting himself or if there is actually a real Rize in his mind (I will talk more about this below):
I was so excited (even though it was really sad) to see Kaneki confess something that the Tumblr community has been theorizing about him for ages:
But, it is extra frustrating because even Kaneki is aware that, in some ways, he got exactly what he wanted:
It is starting to look like there will be some actual progress though. Also, is Kaneki aspiring to run his own Tokyo Ghoul meta-analysis blog?:
I really do not want to admit this, but I was actually almost crying (I couldn’t even spell crying right when I drafted this post) when I read this:
This ending had me cheering. It FINALLY feels like Kaneki is going to try moving forward in an actually positive direction (please do not let this lead to another post-Cochlea regression Ishida):
Analysis:
I want to start off by talking about some of the imagery in this chapter. First, the black borders have completely replaced the white borders from chapter 157 and 158. When I first commented on this when discussing chapter 157, I did not have a super concrete interpretation of what this artistic choice represented. I still don’t, but it definitely seems to be associated with Dragon and the destruction it has caused (I know that Ishida also uses the black borders during flashbacks quite frequently).
Next, there are some obvious changed to Kaneki’s dream environment. There is now a forest surrounding the temple and the sky has become overcast:
This seems to be associated with Kaneki regaining his memories of what he did while inside of Dragon. I am not sure what the forest represents (perhaps a shadowed forest in which one can easily lose their path…or have I just been reading too much Dante?).
Finally, there are a lot of hands in this chapter:
I am not an expert on symbolism, but if I had to guess I would say this has something to do with Kaneki reclaiming agency (hands are our primary tools for manipulating the world after all). The fact that he has human hands instead of his red Kagune ones might me relevant also. Or maybe Ishida is just proving he can draw hands after last chapter’s six finger misdraw (joking of course).
Next, I would like to talk about what is going on with Rize. Up until this point, I was firmly convinced that she was just a projection of some of Kaneki’s negative emotions that was here to flame him. This chapter is making me doubt a little bit though. Sometimes she speaks about things that happened to the real Rize as if her interpretations are her own:
She even says things that Kaneki does not seem to know about:
This combined with her comments about being torn apart then put back together inside Dragon creates the possibility that this really is Rize. That being said, all the comments she makes are things that Kaneki would know from what Furuta told him during this conversation:
And it is not completely far-fetched to think that he could recognize his own/Rize’s kagune when he was eating the Oggai. Thematically speaking, I think it makes more sense for this just to be him projecting, especially considering how personal Rize’s attacks on Kaneki’s actions are.
Next I want to talk about progress. It is definitely too early to make any definitive claims about Kaneki genuinely changing and moving forward, but it really seems like he is going in the right direction right now. In this chapter alone we had denial:
Some anger:
Bargaining and depression:
If you have not already caught on, these are the first four of the five stages of grief. It seems like Kaneki is going roughly following this process within in his mind right now. The good news is that the final stage of grief is acceptance, and that seems to be exactly what Kaneki is striving for at the end of the chapter:
As I said when discussing Mutsuki, changing how you see yourself does not equal redemption. However, one cannot be redeemed if they believe they are unworthy or undeserving of redemption. If Kaneki can maintain this state of mind and keep moving forward, he will still have a long way to go to before he can truly atone. Though, I think this has the potential to be a vital first step.
I would put money on the next chapter being something going on outside of Dragon. Although, we could also have Kaneki swimming through the sea of blood and ermering in the real world. Either way, I think there will be some progress made towards getting our boy out of Dragon next week. Also, we got a nice little tease about the Sunlit Garden. Maybe that’s in there to prime us for the next arc?
This is going to be all for me. I hope you all have a good rest of the week. Also, let me know if you have any questions you want me to answer and/or unrelated TG topics you want me to discuss.
If we’re heading for 206, the number of human bones in an adult body, it’s interesting to me that the 300th chapter of the series as a whole started with Kaneki waking up in a fetal position…
…because humans are born with around 300 bones. It’d fit with the themes of maturation and moving away from a childlike black and white view of the world and of himself, to Kaneki viewing himself and the world as appropriately complex in this final arc.
Why Mephisto is so willing to tell Rin everything, but not Yukio…
Throughout the series we have followed Yukio and Rin’s actions and seen who they are. Basically, though it’s well hidden, Rin is much more mature than Yukio is. Yukio wants to know the answers to everything and cannot accept things he does not like. He places himself in danger and has the urge to be better, stronger than everyone else, and is rather bitter when he is not.
This makes him very child-like:
Rin, however, understands he can’t know everything (though he wants to) and has the capability to accept things he doesn’t like. He tries to subvert danger, but neutralizes it when it occurs in a way that is sensible; at least, to him (see: Rin saving Kuro, Rin handling the Impure King, Rin with the Kraken, Rin with the 7 mysteries of True Cross, ETC). He tries to solve problems. He may feel inferior to others but instead of being bitter (like Yukio), he strives to better himself.
This makes him adult-like.
Mephisto has recognized their behaviors. He knows Yukio is very childish and bratty, and therefore doesn’t believe he deserves the answers he seeks. He is, in Mephisto’s eyes, unworthy because he is childlike. Mephisto views Rin as more mature, but he’s also recognized how static Rin tends to be. He’s been subtly pushing Rin to ask questions because he feels Rin is deserving of knowing the answers. Hence why he’s so willing to tell Rin everything and why he was so excited when Rin finally asked.
Mephisto is certain that Rin is more mature than Yukio. Why? I’ll explain.
Mephisto is clearly an omniscient character. He is aware that we are reading the story. Since he frequently breaks the fourth wall, is it so forward to assume that the anime was actually an alternate universe that Mephisto spectated over? Perhaps Mephisto has known from the start how unstable Yukio could be, since he’s already seen it before. He watched Yukio try to esponge the world of demons using his own brother as a sacrifice, unable to accept his brother for what he is. He’s seen how utterly ruthless and stupid Yukio could be. He’s seen Satan possess the moron.
Perhaps he was so unwilling to tell Yukio anything, not only because he’s an asshole who just wanted to be a catalyst for the end of the world, but because he knew how Yukio would react all along?
Hi Anon and don’t worry, I totally agree with you! In my opinion, there are two reasons this statement sounds weird:
to avoid confirming/denying the UT = Cedric theory, because him caring about the P family is simply linked to whatever happened with Claudia
because, if the UT = Cedric theory is true, UT’s probably not exactly the best parental figure anyway.
#1 is just the way Sensei rolls, so moving on to #2: we’re talking about someone who, despite obviously caring about the P family in his own way, still let the Campania arc happened after realizing that Ciel was on the same ship, to say nothing of him becoming (unless he already was) a mass-murderer with a smile on his face.
Of course, UT’s reasoning during the Campania arc was that Ciel would definitely be safe because Seb would protect him…
…but that doesn’t make UT less of an asshole in general, and same goes for possibly knowing that the Midfords were there too but deciding that
¯_(ツ)_/¯
they would surely be safe because they are skilled + Ciel wouldn’t let anything happen to them anyway.
So, as I was saying, if UT somehow is Cedric, then I doubt he ever was “daddy of the year”, if just because if he’s Cedric, then how comes Tanaka was all that Vincent and Frances had left after Claudia passed away? It doesn’t even matter whether or not he was around or her husband or whatever. From the moment they were 15 and 12/13 years old, the least to do is to keep an eye on them immediately after.
But hey, while we’re on the subject, this is UT during the Weston arc…
and sometimes I really wish I could wave in front of his face and say “hi, Shinigamis are originally humans too, you know?”.
I mean, I’m aware that we didn’t know about the true nature of Shinigamis back then, but still personally I think that speaks volumes about UT’s current psychology not being what you’d call “usual”, which is why it’s not so surprising that he’d fit on the margin of society.
Then again, it was implied that he didn’t have a very happy existence, so it makes sense that we know he can care about others (obviously he showed us that with Vincent and Ciel), but it’s just often not… demonstrated in the best way or for the most logical reasons.
This is my example of Tanaka apparently being the only parental figure Frances and Vincent had left after Claudia passed away yet again, no matter if the UT = Cedric theory is true or not…
Because in my conception of UT’s character and considering how he’s still crying about Vincent in canon, I really wouldn’t be surprised if UT turned out to be utterly depressed after Claudia’s death (especially if he was in love with her), until he remembered that she had kids (who possibly are also his)
he might as well keep an eye on.
So you see, for all we know initially it probably even wasn’t directly for the sake of Claudia’s kids that he became one of Vincent’s evil nobles, that is, until he got attached to Vincent too. In that case (sorry for rambling xD), it’s the same thing for that weird sentence of ch131…
…that I personally chose to interpret as UT implying that he would care about the twins “because they’re Phantomhives” (as in “related to Claudia/Vincent”) and not because he’s possibly their grandfather.
Again, I don’t know if the reason for that is that he was so enthralled by Claudia that it was not even about his own feelings at first but about what he thinks she would have wanted, or just that he simply doesn’t know how to act in a normal way and thus all that he’d rather do is awkwardly care from afar.
TL;DR UT is such a pain as a character sometimes, because he’s definitely selfish and he acts terribly, but at the same time you can’t really doubt of how much he cares and gets involved when it comes to Claudia’s family:
if he’s Cedric, he possibly abandoned Frances and Vincent (whether or not he was around in the first place) for a few years after Claudia died, which kinda sucks,
but he still ended up coming back as “the Undertaker” after a few years and dedicated a large part of his time to helping Vincent with the Watchdog duty
also he barely knew the twins that he had already decided he’d care about them just because they were related to Claudia/Vincent
Caring about Ciel didn’t stop him from throwing him off a staircase though, because he knew Seb would protect Ciel and he wanted to get to Seb
and yet, UT’s involvement in the Campania and Weston arcs could also be seen as possibly trying to get to the Queen, because the Watchdog duty remains one of the two big threats that could end up killing Ciel.
Anyway, sorry for rambling. x) As you can see, I love how complex UT’s character is but I agree that it’s slightly painful how full of contradictions he seems to be. :3 Maybe knowing more about him will help us understanding him or his motivations better though, so please just take everything with a grain of salt!
I hope it’s a little helpful, have a nice day as well Anon. ^3^
Thanks for reading and no worries :)) it’s an argument (with the doubt that shinigamis can reproduce in the first place) that was used more than once and I hadn’t meant to imply that that his other lockets weren’t important in the first place, because clearly they’re part of his treasure.
So I’ll clear up the misunderstanding but first, I have two arguments to oppose to yours:
the story is about Ciel Phantomhive & Sebastian Michaelis
so I don’t want to make a generality, but I think Sensei wouldn’t seem to insist so much on UT if his link to Ciel’s family wasn’t particularly plot-relevant (as opposed to just being a part of UT’s character)
again, not to make a generality, but you can have several people you’re extremely close to and fond of (friends for example), but fall in love with just one person. In other words, I think that’s a pattern with his lockets too: UT liked them all for different reasons.
this is Druitt’s example here, he’s so damn funny that UT protected him from everyone on the Campania, including from drowning, but I’d still say that Druitt is less important than Ciel for UT.
Whether these hypothetical feelings were reciprocated we don’t know, but that doesn’t really matter since we’re focusing on UT’s point of view. So my point is that whatever I said above works no matter if the UT = Cedric theory is true or not, because the only argument my post about UT is based on is the idea that UT possibly was very much in love with Claudia. 🙂
In fact, UT = Cedric is not plot relevant, at least as far as we currently know (it doesn’t change any big element of the plot). I mean, it gives UT a name and that’s why I like it, but basically that’s it. What’s relevant (and already canon) is that UT ended up keeping an eye on Claudia’s family probably because of Claudia herself. That’s why I said above that UT said he “would care about the twins because they’re Phantomhives” (as in “related to Claudia/Vincent”) and not because he’s possibly their grandfather.”
Again, I’m not saying that he’s not keeping an eye on other people as well, but the plot revolves around Ciel & Seb, so UT’s careful watch over them as well as Claudia’s locket will most likely always get a bigger focus than the other lockets, but that’s not particularly relevant to whether UT is Cedric or not in my opinion.
TL;DR my post above is unrelated to UT being Cedric or not, it’s all about UT keeping an eye on Claudia’s family because he initially cared about her a great deal or (if he didn’t love her) simply because he found her very interesting. That’s what I was trying to explain about ch131. 🙂
I hope I’m the one making sense ^^
The arguments against the UT = Cedric theory are more than a few though, so no worries if you don’t think it’s possible, you’re not the only one. Thanks again for reading!
Right! It sounds like they are mostly human, but still have that extremely powerful kakuja “blood” running through them.
It’s been hinted that there are people much farther above the Washuu, and in a way are being used by the higher-ups in return for wealth and political power. After all, the Washuu are only a subset of V, not the other way around.
Interesting social study, isn’t it? How a powerful family can despise and feel ashamed of their origins, but exploit themselves and others who share it all the same…
I have to admit that initially, I was confused about why Arima told Kaneki that the Washuus/V wanted to be “more human” in ch83, but I guess what Rize said now explains why V decided to get rid of them recently and how they mostly succeeded.
The main Washuu family having a “powerful kakuja blood” but being mostly humans…
in other words having maybe special Rc cells but otherwise human biological features might explain their strength but also why we never saw their kagune.
“V” was initially created by the Washuus to annihilate the second OEG of the timeline, the one who almost destroyed the CCG in the past, but it seems that the organization ended up backfiring against their creators and, if it’s indeed because the power balance tilted over the years, I’d really be interested in knowing how V is different from the main Washuu family, biologically speaking.
I guess we’re eventually coming to that, but it’s lifting something off my shoulders to possibly understand what Arima was trying to say in ch83 + maybe this means that the ghoul parent of the children in the sunlit garden could be the moms? Hence why Iyo “didn’t understand” Matsuri’s job because she’s a ghoul and he’s an investigator (not sure tho because a few things don’t add up, like Furuta implying that Rize was supposed to be r*aped by Tsuneyoshi and co…).
EDIT: rethinking about this, since Yoshitoki showed two kakugan and Matsuri apparently healed from that cut in the head, I really wonder if the ghoul parents of Arima and co are the moms…
Finally, it explains Kanou’s words to the Yasuhisa twins about himself and their father:
if V encompasses the Washuus and the Washuus were ghouls who wanted to become more human, to possibly follow the example of the fearful One Eyed Washu who was a hybrid, then the ghoulification research that Kanou mentioned (which so far is about creating ghouls, not humans, probably by the sunlit society) must have been for the sake of V getting more and more powerful, not the main Washuu family.
It seems it’s finally all adding up. Now what’s left to know is how the Clowns are tying into all of this (since Furuta chose to go to them for a plot-relevant reason surely) +…
why Hide was apparently trying to avoid the Washuus.
midnight-in-town 