the suggestion that vincent kept accidentally unearthing german government secrets. more than once. several times
I love little details like this and I can’t help but wonder if the studio was only a base or if Vincent also had some interest in photography?
Also considering that…
Ciel knew next to nothing about his father’s work or anything related to it when he came back, so who taught him about all of this?
Did Seb just make research, or did Tanaka or Frances, Alexis or one of his father’s old friends explain about the Watchdog’s duty as well as the base(s) Vincent had in London? It’s details but it’s stuff I’d personally love to know.
Cracky thought, but actually I wonder about if UT didn’t happen to really leave his scythe behind when he deserted…
only to get it back right after the events of Vincent’s death and the twins’ abduction…
which would explain why he said he had so many troubles managing to rescue the twins in the first place? He arrived after the contract was made (that’s why he wanted to check Seb’s CR during the campania arc) and just in time to collect the twin’s corpse before it got burnt.
Maybe that could also explain the change of design, from simple-looking scythe
to “skeletonized” after he got it back, even if we still don’t know whose skeleton it is (either Claudia’s or Vincent’s, but someone he most likely thinks he can’t bring back if he cut up the skeleton to make it a part of his scythe).
I know he said that he “found it hard to part with it” and that’s why until now I always thought that it was justifying why he had possibly deserted with it.
However, who knows if the English translation isn’t a little misleading and the whole thing may actually be meant as “it was actually very hard to be separated from it after/for such a long time” (aka about 45 years) “and I had a lot of troubles taking it back”.
We don’t know why UT deserted, we don’t even know when exactly in his punishment he deserted, like:
was he super close to being forgiven and he decided that he didn’t want to go “rest in peace” soon?
or did he still have some time to work and he got so fed up with it/curious about humans that he left?
but maybe his decision to desert was one he took after he got back to HQ from that mission with Othello 50 years ago and, in that case, he could have left without his scythe (especially if he was throwing away his shinigami life and wanted to meddle a little with humans).
It’s when the situation got total desperate, when Vincent was killed + the twins were nowhere to be found, that he imagined that the whole case could have a supernatural component and that’s when he had a lot of trouble getting his scythe back? Without his scythe, it’s harder to fight against other supernatural beings after all.
As I said, just a crack theory, I’m probably reading too much into this x) but otherwise I fail to see what else could have taken UT so much time to find the twins?
I will say… these are excellent questions to ponder and consider. I don’t have a theory exactly, if anything, I have more questions. The story and canon source material has not given us much deep insight into Rachel Phantomhive, and why Vincent fell in love with her, and chose her as his wife.
I know that this may disappoint some Vincent-stans, but it’s a question I have often deeply pondered myself– and it doesn’t reflect well upon him as a father or exactly make him look the most responsible. In the very first place: Why did Vincent get to marry for love as the Queen’s Guard Dog and have that privilege? Was it because his mother died when he was still young, and did not yet decide who he would marry? In that case, why is this something that he felt he could take away from his own son by betrothing him to Elizabeth? I understand why he did this, to protect him and try to provide that security and all, but it’s still a BOLD move to make as a father, for his son. To just put them both together often enough, and HOPE they fell in love. (For that matter it was a colossal move to make on the part of Elizabeth’s mother– subjecting her daughter to that life and training her from a young age to handle it– but that’s another topic).
In the second place: If he had the right to marry whomever he wanted and take whoever he wanted as a wife, why then, would he choose a wife that had such health problems? As far as we know, Rachel had a sweet and playful demeanor most of the time– and had asthma and sometimes got sick. Hardly the ideal match for the Queen’s Guard Dog. The only answer I have, is that it was a very genuine, and deep– even irresponsible and selfish, love. A love that he might have known would be difficult and dangerous, but despite that, he went through with it anyway.
They died in one another’s arms, Vincent holding her in a protective way… they were in love, no doubt about that. But I will say this… even if Rachel didn’t have a darker side to her, I think the fact she married him in the first place when she was so caring and so sweet may speak to her character by itself. Maybe she was the kindness that Vincent needed in his life to face what he had to face on a daily basis.
OR…
Given that her sister had the capacity to become a vengeful serial killer, it’s also entirely possible that she DID have a dark side to her, secrets that have not been revealed to us yet. People tend to forget that her side of the family had those vengeful, serial killer genes! So maybe she was more involved with Vincent’s position than one would believe? Maybe she was guilty of something and Vincent caught her and loved her too much to arrest her? I don’t know, but I wish that I did.
I know I didn’t answer any questions but – there’s my two cents.
Undertaker took the time to stand up and pick up Vincent’s portrait to place it in the armchair where he was previously sitting, before trying to grant him his rosette’s power.
The special thing about this is just that Undertaker
gave his place and power to Vincent, and is literally replaced by Vincent in the next panel
So yeah don’t mind me, I’m just here staring at this chapter’s beauty and marvelously implied hints and symbolisms that we’ll eventually learn to be true or not in about a decade from now.
Yeah, Undertaker’s views on how to ‘help’ someone seem kinda twisted. And right now it’s hard to see how any of what he’s doing right now is going to do any good to our Ciel. However, I still think that Undertaker’s goal is to actually help our Ciel to survive.
The biggest threat to our Ciel’s life in the long run is definitely Sebastian. The contract bounds our Ciel to him and as soon as it’s completed Sebastian will eat his soul. Even if our Ciel gives up on his revenge that would end his life as we’ve learnt in the Green Witch arc. Sebastian surely won’t give up on his price willingly. And it never really seemed like our Ciel regretted the choice he made back then. He accepts that he’ll die by Sebastian’s hands and he’s okay with that after he achieved his revenge. Maybe he even thinks that’s what he deserves after being the survivor while his brother had to die. He clearly feels very guilty (which I think is the main reason why he even took his brother’s identity). And he accepted that Sebastian would take his soul quite quickly.
So it’s already quite difficult to save our Ciel from Sebastian because of Sebastian. But our Ciel doesn’t even want to be saved so that makes things even more complicated.
Now this is the situation Undertaker is confronted with. He knew at least two generations of Phantomhives before the twins. And from what we’ve seen about him carrying Claudia’s mourning locket and him crying over Vincent’s death it’s obvious that he’s quite close to them. He cares about them even to a point of obsession. And that includes the twins – both twins.
Undertaker lost Claudia, he failed to protect Vincent and then both twins were abducted and tortured – one of them died and the other one sold his soul to a demon. I suppose UT blamed himself much for all of that. So he may now try to do anything in his power to save who he can still save. However, in order to save our Ciel from Sebastian he has to make our Ciel actually want to be saved. And maybe that’s the big plan behind all his actions. Our Ciel needs to confront his lies and his guilt in order for him to process all of it. Only if he sees that he deserves to live, that he doesn’t need to blame himself for what happened and that others still love him for who he is he may allow himself to live on. And then he might actually accept help in order to get free from Sebastian.
So maybe letting our Ciel face his guilt in the form of his dead brother and exposing his lies to everyone is UT’s way of starting that process of acceptance for our Ciel. It’s a very drastic and painful way but maybe UT sees no other way.
Don’t get me wrong, it’s horrible what our Ciel has to go through right now but I think it might lead to important character development for him which could be the start of a change in the contract with Sebastian. And maybe that’s what Undertaker is aiming at. I’m quite certain that in UT’s weird and obsessive way he actually really wants to save our Ciel in order to keep the Phantomhives alive (maybe in order to uphold a promise he once made to Claudia or even to himself to protect her descendants and to make up for earlier failures).
There aren’t two ways to go about it: UT doesn’t want to lose more Phantomhives (ch140), he’s even ready to go as far as to bring some of them back from the dead. So, indeed, being confronted to a young boy who went through so much that he thinks he actually deserves to die and have his soul eaten by a demon…
…what is he supposed to do? If he doesn’t up his game (both towards Seb and Victoria, imo), Ciel is lost.
I agree with you @thedarkestcrow, it doesn’t mean he chose the best way to do this (especially not with what the twin did to Soma and Agni, when Soma was slowly getting closer to Ciel, or even how sad the whole arc made Lizzie), and this decision of his may be the result of having lost many Phantomhives, but then again, who has a better idea to offer?
Clearly not Tanaka, despite being another character who’s probably well aware of the past of the P family and even possibly of Ciel’s contract to Seb (and maybe that’s even why he’s still at the P manor in ch145, because he’s the same as UT when it comes to wanting to save what’s left of this family).
The only possible alternative I can see to UT’s rather drastic ideas is Frances (who’s also someone who knows about Claudia and who has a way imo to know about Seb and the contract), mostly because she’s been conveniently absent lately and there are reasons to vouch for her being eventually the one to foil UT on this (I swear I won’t do this on your post tho), but nothing is certain rn.
Thank you for writing this, friend ❤ It was amazing! And sorry that I ended up slightly rambling. The point is we can call UT out for a lot of his bullshit, I love doing that personally, but thinking that saving our!Ciel is not a part of his goals is probably missing the point of most of his character throughout the story.
Thanks for your addition, @midnight-in-town. I was actually searching for that post where Yana implied that UT wasn’t a villain but I couldn’t find it so I left it out. But that’s exactly it! UT’s ways are surely not ‘nice’. What he’s doing to our Ciel is cruel at the moment. But he may see no other chance anymore.
The point is that in those nearly four years that the contract exists nothing much has changed regarding Ciel’s view on the contract. It’s obvious that Undertaker kept an eye on him. Maybe at first he thought that reminding him of the importance of one’s soul and giving him time would change our Ciel’s view on his future and on the contract but apparently it didn’t. In the meantime our Ciel could get closer and closer to his revenge and therefore to the end of the contract. I wouldn’t even be that surprised if UT tried to prevent Ciel from getting closer to the truth about his parents’ murder (by distracting him with his Bizarre Dolls or by hiding evidence) so that the contract wouldn’t end too quickly before UT has the chance to do something about it.
Maybe somehow UT even knows what happened in Germany and fears how quickly Ciel’s life could end. That may have shown him that preventing Ciel from getting his revenge may not even be enough because Sebastian could eat his soul as soon as Ciel gives up on his revenge.
So UT may now have seen the necessity to act, however cruel the methods may seem now.
Ohh and one last thing @thedarkestcrow: I think you’re also right because we know that during the campania arc UT checked Seb’s cinematic record about how he and Ciel met and that included how the contract was made, so…
he must have seen this too (ch138).
Of course he was already going through the process of bringing the twin back ever since he had rescued his body, but still, maybe that convinced him that seeing his brother again could be one way to help save Ciel from the contract.
In fact, the more we’re seeing of UT in this arc, the more I think that he really doesn’t want to lose more Phantomhives but that bringing back the dead Phantomhives could be something he’s justifying as not being (only) for himself, but also for Ciel (Vincent and real!Ciel), Frances (Vincent and Claudia), maybe even her children (real!Ciel => Lizzie), etc.
It’s just that our!Ciel is the one with the most precarious situation at the moment, so maybe he even hurried with the twin and brought him back first for that reason (since Vincent can’t be brought back anyway).
I think that might have been possible had Vincent married anyone other than who he did. O!Ciel inherited his asthma and frail constitution from his mother, Rachel, who we saw in the “With Father” side-story as having been prone to illness. Madam Red also informed us that part of the reason she wanted to be a doctor was for Rachel, who was constantly sick or bedridden.
We have no indication that Vincent was ill or medically troubled as a child and we know Frances would simply not tolerate being ill (because let’s be honest, Frances Midford née Phantomhive is NOT dying from something so mundane as an ordinary infection) so whatever propensity O!Ciel has towards illness was given to him by Rachel.
So if R!Ciel took after Vincent and was a (presumably) normal, healthy kid while O!Ciel was more like his mother, it might actually lend credence to your theory that the “inhumanly strong” Phantomhive gene is maternal.
Because while R!Ciel was a healthy enough child, he was in no way exceptional like Frances or Elizabeth. It’s entirely possible they could’ve inherited this biological quirk from the OG Phantomhive countess, meaning Claudia – the most enigmatic figure in Kuro at the moment – might have also been a sword-wielding get-shit-done badass. (Hell, if we buy into the UT-was-in-love-with-Claudia theory then we at least know she could’ve kicked his ass if he tried pulling this let’s revive the dead shit during her tenure as Watchdog xD)
In summary, it’s possible that Claudia was the original Sword Queen but that this particular trait could only be passed down to the females of the Phantomhive line. Vincent did not inherit this genetically altered super-strength chromosome and was thus unable to pass it down to his sons, R!Ciel and O!Ciel. Erstwhile Frances did inherit it but was only able to pass it down to her daughter, Lizzy.
I mean, at this point it’s anyone’s guess but I’d just be happy to catch another glimpse of our Kuroshitsuji empress, Claudia xD
Crack theory: the Phantomhive lineage is at the origin of the Watchdog duty
Very old idea related to ch103 & the GW arc overall that I never took the time to write.
Based on the fact that Claudia was most likely Vincent’s predecessor, which is implying that, when no more male heir available, using a woman from the Phantomhive family as the Watchdog was apparently a better alternative than giving the job to another nobleman loyal to the royal family.
@frederickabberline previously made a post explaining under which circumstances noble women could inherit anything, so it isn’t strange that Claudia was able to get that title. Still, the Watchdog position implies keeping control over the underworld, solving weird cases and cleaning up after the royal family, so it’s not exactly a normal position.
To keep it within a family specifically (the Phantomhives) could be a matter of keeping the Watchdog’s identity a secret, but…
…clearly ch132 and Vincent explain that, if no more heir, the whole thing goes back to the crown who decides who they’ll give it to next. So it’s probably Victoria who decided to give it to Claudia in the first place, allowing her to inherit despite being a woman (we don’t know when) and…
it’s also the Queen who decided that a 10 year old boy from the same family would receive that position.
So, assuming that the royal family intends on keeping the Watchdog duty as tightly related to the P family as possible, the question is why? Well, my answer for now would be the lineage thing.
Granted that we don’t know exactly what that lineage is yet, why it apparently has to be activated, etc, but it seems to at least have to do with being able to see/sense/detect supernatural beings. So far:
Ciel managed to spot the Shinigamis in ch103 despite them being invisible to normal human eyes at the time
the German Shinigamis said that “it runs in the family” so we can assume that it spans more than just two generations (so it’s most likely unrelated to whoever Cedric K. Ros- is)
And I’m of the opinion that it could probably be seen as useful if the royal family were to know about (and believe) it.
For now though, it’s hard to consider whether or not Victoria herself gave out hints that she might know about the lineage, because her absence of surprise towards Ciel’s report for the Weston arc could also be explained by John Brown most likely being supernatural and by her side, as many have guessed before.
The thing is, I find there is a possible analogy between the Watchdog’s duty
and Seb’s own situation as Ciel’s personal dog
Because Will basically said that a demon with a leash on (the contract & Seb’s own aesthetic) was better than free demons who would probably go around scavenging for souls that Shinigamis work hard to collect.
And it’s kinda the same if we’re considering that the Phantomhives are dogs to the royal family: putting a collar on them makes them less dangerous and more easy to keep under control (eventually hanging them with it if needs be, as UT pointed out), especially if what the royal family was originally interested in was how useful the Phantomhive lineage could be to them.
The other reason I came up with this theory is the Green Witch arc overall: again it’s just my opinion but, while the last part of the arc was really good, I have a few issues with the rest of it. I explained here why but, to sum up: compared to all the other arcs, the fake supernatural settings (werewolves, witch, curse/magic, etc) are rather unrelated to the true subplot (German army researching war weapons using a young genius), which is unusual and makes it too convenient as a result.
That being said, since I like to believe that Sensei does things for a reason, I’ve been thinking that maybe the fake supernatural settings of the GW arc are supposed to be relevant elsewhere in the story, kinda like how the murders at manor arc ended up being used as an introduction to the war suplot.
So initially, looking at what Sieglinde believed to be the truth, you get this story…
and let’s just say that this is a situation that could have easily been applied to the Phantomhive family, if anyone ever found out that they were “gifted”.
Again, we don’t know what the lineage is or where it comes from, but if Ciel’s ancestors ended up being hunted as heretics
at some point
because of it, then similarly to Sieglinde’s story, who knows if they didn’t agree to a pact with the royal family (the Watchdog duty), in exchange for their protection?
That pact gave the royal family the huge advantage to get their own little gifted dogs, generations after generations, and to use that special lineage indirectly for themselves…
…as long as they kept a tight leash on this family.
I’m aware it might appear a little far-fetched, especially when we don’t know what the lineage
really
is about yet, but that’s why it’s a crack theory.
To be honest though, I can’t help but also wonder about the timing of the lineage thing’s introduction by Sensei: ch103 is right during the final part of the GW arc after all, so it could be a coincidence or narratively meaningful because the settings of the arc do have some sort of link to that lineage stuff. :))
Let me know if anything is unclear! As always thanks for reading!!
I forgot to mention a few more details that might prove that the lineage is overall relevant to the main plot the other day. First…
…if the Phantomhive family is rumored to be gifted within occult circles, that could explain why this guy leading the cult from 4 years ago was so happy about having two of them as their lambs.
Think about it, if they believed in the occult to the point of thinking that summoning a demon was possible, then they might as well believe that there are some special humans out there.
Personally I don’t think that the twins having a special lineage influenced Seb’s summoning or anything, but maybe these people believed it might (amongst the many ways to justify their horrible actions towards the twins)?
Similarly, about the betrothal between Vincent’s heir and Elizabeth:
as far as we know, it happened when they were really young, probably at a time when no one knew for certain if Lizzie would even be as strong as her parents, so maybe it’s a consequence of the special lineage there again?
I mentioned it several times before, but for Frances to go along with the betrothal even though she knows how dangerous being a Phantomhive is, there must be a real reason to this decision. It could be just because she wanted to help her brother’s family, but Sensei generally goes deeper than that.
In any case, I doubt it’s a random narrative choice by Sensei to have Lizzie as the twins’ fiancée (not when Ed isn’t betrothed to anyone and neither were Frances and Vincent before they met Alexis and Rachel).
What’s clear is that neither Ciel nor Lizzie ever thought to ask why they were engaged so young (so they should ask someone at some point), but personally I do think it’s about more than just keeping the secret of the Watchdog’s identity within the family.
Crack theory: the Phantomhive lineage is at the origin of the Watchdog duty
Very old idea related to ch103 & the GW arc overall that I never took the time to write.
Based on the fact that Claudia was most likely Vincent’s predecessor, which is implying that, when no more male heir available, using a woman from the Phantomhive family as the Watchdog was apparently a better alternative than giving the job to another nobleman loyal to the royal family.
@frederickabberline previously made a post explaining under which circumstances noble women could inherit anything, so it isn’t strange that Claudia was able to get that title. Still, the Watchdog position implies keeping control over the underworld, solving weird cases and cleaning up after the royal family, so it’s not exactly a normal position.
To keep it within a family specifically (the Phantomhives) could be a matter of keeping the Watchdog’s identity a secret, but…
…clearly ch132 and Vincent explain that, if no more heir, the whole thing goes back to the crown who decides who they’ll give it to next. So it’s probably Victoria who decided to give it to Claudia in the first place, allowing her to inherit despite being a woman (we don’t know when) and…
it’s also the Queen who decided that a 10 year old boy from the same family would receive that position.
So, assuming that the royal family intends on keeping the Watchdog duty as tightly related to the P family as possible, the question is why? Well, my answer for now would be the lineage thing.
Granted that we don’t know exactly what that lineage is yet, why it apparently has to be activated, etc, but it seems to at least have to do with being able to see/sense/detect supernatural beings. So far:
Ciel managed to spot the Shinigamis in ch103 despite them being invisible to normal human eyes at the time
the German Shinigamis said that “it runs in the family” so we can assume that it spans more than just two generations (so it’s most likely unrelated to whoever Cedric K. Ros- is)
And I’m of the opinion that it could probably be seen as useful if the royal family were to know about (and believe) it.
For now though, it’s hard to consider whether or not Victoria herself gave out hints that she might know about the lineage, because her absence of surprise towards Ciel’s report for the Weston arc could also be explained by John Brown most likely being supernatural and by her side, as many have guessed before.
The thing is, I find there is a possible analogy between the Watchdog’s duty
and Seb’s own situation as Ciel’s personal dog
Because Will basically said that a demon with a leash on (the contract & Seb’s own aesthetic) was better than free demons who would probably go around scavenging for souls that Shinigamis work hard to collect.
And it’s kinda the same if we’re considering that the Phantomhives are dogs to the royal family: putting a collar on them makes them less dangerous and more easy to keep under control (eventually hanging them with it if needs be, as UT pointed out), especially if what the royal family was originally interested in was how useful the Phantomhive lineage could be to them.
The other reason I came up with this theory is the Green Witch arc overall: again it’s just my opinion but, while the last part of the arc was really good, I have a few issues with the rest of it. I explained here why but, to sum up: compared to all the other arcs, the fake supernatural settings (werewolves, witch, curse/magic, etc) are rather unrelated to the true subplot (German army researching war weapons using a young genius), which is unusual and makes it too convenient as a result.
That being said, since I like to believe that Sensei does things for a reason, I’ve been thinking that maybe the fake supernatural settings of the GW arc are supposed to be relevant elsewhere in the story, kinda like how the murders at manor arc ended up being used as an introduction to the war suplot.
So initially, looking at what Sieglinde believed to be the truth, you get this story…
and let’s just say that this is a situation that could have easily been applied to the Phantomhive family, if anyone ever found out that they were “gifted”.
Again, we don’t know what the lineage is or where it comes from, but if Ciel’s ancestors ended up being hunted as heretics
at some point
because of it, then similarly to Sieglinde’s story, who knows if they didn’t agree to a pact with the royal family (the Watchdog duty), in exchange for their protection?
That pact gave the royal family the huge advantage to get their own little gifted dogs, generations after generations, and to use that special lineage indirectly for themselves…
…as long as they kept a tight leash on this family.
I’m aware it might appear a little far-fetched, especially when we don’t know what the lineage
really
is about yet, but that’s why it’s a crack theory.
To be honest though, I can’t help but also wonder about the timing of the lineage thing’s introduction by Sensei: ch103 is right during the final part of the GW arc after all, so it could be a coincidence or narratively meaningful because the settings of the arc do have some sort of link to that lineage stuff. :))
Let me know if anything is unclear! As always thanks for reading!!
midnight-in-town 