umm sorry i’m very lost about the timeline with the war before kaneki and the 24th ward? V didn’t come before the CCG? And what’s the place of the washuu family?

Wow, okay, I’ll do a little recap post because I mixed things up myself until fairly recently and I’ve been relying on different theories to explain, so I can understand that it’s not super clear. x)

From the look of things so far though, the whole theory is that it seems that there were two big conflicts relating to OEGs before Eto was born: one that led to the creation of the CCG and one that led to the creation of V.

So here goes:

1) 100+ years ago, a OEG appeared which led to the creation of the predecessor organization to the CCG:

My personal opinion is that this 100+ years old OEG is the “Nagaraj” that apparently destroyed the city Ayato found:

Because ‘Nagaraj’ means “king of nagas” and, from the explanation here:

In Chapter 131, ‘Naagaraji’ ナァガラジ could be a reference to the Hindu mythology Nāgarāja “King of the nāga” (nāga meaning snakes) and also known in Japanese and Chinese mythology as one of the 8 great dragon kings. Among the Nāgarāja there is Vasuki, a snakegod in Indian mythology who was converted into a dragon king in Buddhism, then renamed “Washu-kichi”

and here:

和修吉(washukitsu) is just the assigned kanji for how Vasuki is pronounced in Japanese. Washuu only uses the first two kanji as a family name, and then whoever the successors are adds the last kanji from Vasuki to their given name.

(ex: Furuta Nimura => Washuu Kichimura)

…we can deduce a possible link between the Nagaraj and the Washuu family

Which would explain why the Washuus (who are ghouls) took the side of humans and created an organization in order to defeat him, even if we currently don’t know what happened and how it ended.

Personal opinion there again, but I’m not so sure this OEG is dead, especially since we learnt there is a way to “remain young” as a ghoul:

And also because there is one character that is associated to snakes, skeleton king and kitsune (kitsune being able to learn how to shape shift when they turn 100 years old).

(More of this theory here)

I’m sure Ishida will tell us more about this at some point, because this OEG is linked to the creation of the CCG and will surely allow us to know about the Washuu family itself, but for now I believe that’s all we’ve got for this part.

2) However Kaneki’s side recently introduced a different OEG, the one who “almost destroyed the CCG” and who apparently** “built the 24th ward”:

And in order to defeat him, it seems that the “V” organization was created (?)…

…along with the development of quinque weapons…

…leading this OEG and his people to the 24th ward.

This OEG most likely was from a time around 50+ years ago (post WW2 if you would), which explains why Kaneki’s side thinks that he might still be around (even if old) to help them and why Ayato was sent down to finding that city.

However, this time, my personal opinion is that this OEG isn’t alive anymore…

Because it was Noro who, after being defeated by V, accepted to help Yoshimura with hiding Eto from them in the 24th ward and because

There is likely more to know about him and Eto’s childhood (and why Noro seemed to agree with Tatara’s plan to make the world “a society for ghouls”?) since Kaneki’s side currently is in the 24th ward anyway.

3) These two events led to the plot of TG

And mostly to Kanou experimenting to create OEGs…

because…

…he intends on breaking the equilibrium, which is why he allied with Aogiri Tree, an organization that wished to change things and make this a world for ghouls instead.

And that’s where we are in the timeline. 🙂

The Washuu family were the first who locked the world into a cage, by building an organization that would later become the CCG we know, because they wanted to defeat a OEG who was apparently threatening them or their position, as well as humans. Then V was created to defeat a second OEG and that’s when the lock on the twisted bird cage became sturdier…

because V became the peace keepers, the ones who strive to protect an “equilibrium” between humans and ghouls, making ghouls the predators and thus the danger to be fought against, all the while making sure that no new OEG would try to destroy the cage.

I don’t know yet the reason V allied with Furuta to turn against Washuu Tsuneyoshi (maybe it was because they found the Washuus weren’t as efficient as before at dealing with “issues” like Eto?), but the V organization most likely is the true villain in TG, the one Eto, Arima, Kanou, Kaneki and even Furuta were/are fighting against…

Hence why, if Kaneki truly is Dragon, Furuta referred to him as his ally (and why he’s helping him with becoming a better leader):

That’s the best summary I think I can give you so far, especially since there is likely to be more that we don’t know for now, so take everything with a grain of salt, especially the part about the possible two rebellions before the time of Eto, Arima, Furuta and Kaneki.

Finally, here are my thoughts as to what I think might happen after the current arc in the 24th ward. 🙂

I really hope it helps, feel free to say if anything is unclear. Have a nice day Anon!

Hi, can i ask your oppinion? I know people are predicting kaneki will rise as dragon, tbh, im waiting for it too…but, remember that kaneki once referred to as Louis, king of sheep? In which story, Louis’ crown got blown away by gust of wind so suddenly, thus ended his reign as king (his reign wasnt a good one anw)… do you think there is a possibility that it is what happening now? Kaneki being stripped off from this king title? Or will it happen sometime later? Thank you so much!

midnight-in-town:

Hello! Of course you can 🙂 I’m one of the people who’ve always thought that Kaneki might be Dragon, however I wasn’t aware of the comparison you mentioned.

Anyway, while I think that Kaneki’s reign will one day end (most likely when his goal of creating coexistence will be achieved), I don’t think it’s going to happen now or that he’ll lose his title next.
I already talked about this a few days ago so please look here. 🙂 I might be wrong, but I think Furuta’s plan is all about making Kaneki into a better/stronger leader, because he’s meant to be fighting until V is defeated.

I hope it helps, have a nice day Anon!

Hello 🙂 I totally see your point and I’d agree, but I think that the symbol of the OEK is for now pretty important to the story because…

Due to past events, V (the villains in TG) is scared shitless of what it represents for ghouls and of the rebellions that such title triggered so… I think for now we’re going to do with it, even if, in the possibility that Kaneki drops the title for another he will have chosen this time, I agree that this won’t mean he quits as leader. 🙂

In my opinion, Kaneki might currently not care so much about the rebellion and about being the OEK, as we could notice many times but…

He cares about Touka and thus, by extension, about the future of the ghoul kind.

So maybe, as you said, this will change at some point, especially if Kaneki grows more and starts considering the rebellion as more than just something handy for his future with Touka. However, in my opinion and right now as long as he’s “indifferent” about this (because it was literally handed to him and he didn’t choose), this title of the OEK is pretty useful because it’s a title that meant something in the past for both the ghoul kind and the CCG/V.

Maybe the ultimate goal would be for Kaneki to go from the OEK to “the nameless king”, which would be a nod to everyone being able to fight for their own future (because the nameless king could then be anyone) but we’re not there yet. He needs to learn how to be a good leader first, if he’s to discard the title he was given and replace it with one that he’ll choose.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Anon 🙂 And have a nice day!

Hello again. ^^ Ah, I had forgotten about this reference, thanks for reminding me!

And yeah, I don’t think so. I mean, Furuta went through so many troubles to teach him how to be a better leader that it’s not to see Kaneki fail as the OEK, or just as leader if he’s to ever change his title (see above).

Have a nice day Anon. 🙂

Ah could you please write your meta thoughts on the Kaneki and hand pics? I’m super curious.

linkspooky:

My thoughts are a bit short, so it’s probably better solved in an ask .

The most important thing to note about these hands is that they’re literal opposites, the color panel scheme is opposite, in one Kaneki’s red eye is prominent and open, in the next it’s obscured partially and crying. The hands are each gripping at opposite sides of his face too.

One hand is much more feminine than the other, and softer. The second has a V carved into the wrist, which is pretty obvious symbolism for the organization that has Kaneki cornered right now. it’s also thicker, more squarish and looks to me at least to be masculine.

If you look at the monologue at the beginning of this chapter though, and remember that this chapter is being featured in the same volume as those clear files of which Ishida deliberately redrew one of them, the potential meaning becomes a bit clear.

Just as how the monologue is about how choices can end you up between two drastically different endings, the cards themselves represent two completely different paths Kaneki could have taken.

The more feminine and gentle hand reminds me a lot of Kaneki’s embrace of Touka in 125. She’s even touching him on a similiar area of his face. After this chapter w’re told pretty clearly too, that Kaneki has begun to think of the future again because of Touka. The future he’s imagining is one in Touka’s arms.

Whereas in the second one, we see the future that Kaneki has somehow, wound himself up in. The one he feels trapped in because of some wrong decision he made at some point along the way. He’s spoken to and enlightened of his situation by Furuta, a representative of V. However, one of V’s minions Hazuki, who has been harmed and used by V much more than enabled really, is the one to sit down and caress Kaneki’s face.

The mood of Kaneki here too, represents the second image a lot closer too. Kaneki is at his limit physically (what the black tears represent), he is also crying and screaming out. The hand that reaches to trap him this time does not comfort him, but rather is mocking him, or entrapping him further.

So that’s my interpretation in short, Kaneki’s two separate futures. The one he imagined, and the one he ended up in. Considering the chapter itself ended with a large ‘GAME OVER’ I think we’re meant to interpret this in a meta context as a bad end.

midnight-in-town:

now that I’ve gotten this idea in mind, I don’t know if I’ll be able to sleep for the whole week. I need ch144 because I’m starting to think too much.

Ishida is insane okay, we all know that so since this idea is going to haunt me until i get to read ch144, i gotta share and write it down: what if

WHAT IF

what if Ishida intends on broadening the stage for an eventual third part of TG:

Afficher davantage

Hello and thank you for reading Anon! I would have added you to the other reblog with the other Anons, but it got pretty long, so… ^^”

Anyway, I’m not very good at symbolism, but from what I read in other people’s meta, we’re apparently ending the “Moon” part of the Fool’s Journey and so it seems that what I wrote above could fit for “the World” part indeed. :))

To answer your question though, it’s hard to explain concretely, especially since we can’t exactly be sure that :Re is ending next week, but I can share the idea I currently have in mind.

First of all, I personally think it’s one of Ishida’s forte to end and start his arcs in rather unexpected ways so, if he could manage the transition from TG ch143 to :Re (when back then, it felt like a real bomb as TG ended, because we all thought Kaneki’s story was over ,with many things left unanswered), then I’m not that worried as to how he’s going to make this hypothetical third part fit in.

To give you an example of what I had in mind when I wrote the theory above: it is my belief that :Re was all about Kaneki learning to be a capable leader (from being the Qs’ mentor to the OEK), which took its sweet time, since even Furuta commented on one of his main flaws in the latest chapter…

…But all in all, I think a part of Furuta’s goal all along, up until the latest chapter, was to make sure that Kaneki would become a good enough leader, so that Ishida would end :Re with Kaneki’s checkmate…

…taking out the “head of the enemy’s side”, which is to say possibly killing Furuta in ch144 (out of fear for Touka, Hina and the others, I’m suggesting that he’s going to eat Hajime and all the men that Furuta left behind, in order to heal, before going berserk/#dragon against Furuta).

Then, things will move on by themselves, because Furuta is backed up by two factions, one of the two being the V organization…

and the real villain of Tokyo Ghoul because that’s whom Arima, Eto, Kanou, Kaneki, Furuta (and probably the Clowns) were/are all fighting against.

The proof that V’s defeat is what Furuta ultimately wants, hence why he’s acting as the villain in order to help Kaneki with becoming a good leader, is in ch128:

Because V is adamant about preserving “peace”

and, for this reason, they’re dead scared of the OEK:

So if Furuta can help Kaneki into becoming a decent ghoul leader, when a lot of the CCG investigators also changed sides to go with Scarecrow, then he’s putting V in difficulty, when V is probably covering more than just Japan as an organization as I was explaining above, which is how we’d end up with a more international conflict (because V will want to destroy Kaneki’s faction even more).

All in all, narratively speaking nothing would change => this hypothetical third part would just follow the events of :Re and TG, the same way :Re did with TG. Same when it comes to the on-going character developments and all the plot points for now left unanswered, they would still be addressed in that hypothetical third part, the same way :Re did with TG. 🙂

Take it with a big grain of salt, but I hope it makes more sense that way?

Thanks again for reading Anon and have a nice day. :3

echo-from-the-void:

It looks like Juuzou`s squad is utilizing the same rope/hook contraption that Zero Squad and V members have been seen using in the past.

It was pretty clever for them to use the ropes to flank Hinami behind the pillars, and probably what saved Hina was Touka shooting those projectiles.

Funny side note about the panel with V members: when I first saw it actually thought that the ropes acted as some sort of helicopter, and that is why they were able to ascend the building. I was pretty confused.

I’ve noticed that (with the exception of a scene in the Root A anime-which is non canon) none of the V agents we’ve seen have used their kagunes even under duress. I think you also pointed this out once for the main branch of the Washuu clan. Could these ghouls have an rc cell pipe blockage like Gugi and Gagi had? Also, could this be why they play ghouls and humans against each other (to maintain their advantage despite their disability)?

Hello! It is indeed @kingkishou‘s theory that what Kanou explained to Naki about Gagi and Guge was a pattern that might be found in the Sunlit Garden (with “demi-humans”/hybrids that aren’t OEGs). I agree with it, except that Furuta seems to be the primary example of a “demi-human” that received Rize’s kagune because he apparently didn’t have any in the first place (and kakuhou are, like, the mandatory organ for ghouls and OEGs).

However, when it comes to the Washuu family itself (since they’re supposedly full-bred/pure ghouls), I believe they might be on Rc suppressants, hence why…

Matsuri more or less healed from that sword in the head but no Washuus ever showed their kagune.

Finally when it comes to V (which by the way doesn’t represent another side -> they want to maintain the equilibrium of these last 100 years, aka, they just want to keep humans and ghouls as two separate species not coexisting with each other), I have no real certainty but

I have several ideas in mind, none including a blockage of the Rc paths though.

Nishiki said that the CCG back then “came up with a brilliant technique” when they created V to take care of the previous OEK so

they’re not aging => because huge intake of Rc cells => see binge eating and the examples Roma/Noro
they’ve been fed the strange liquid solutions that Sphinx dealt to the CCG (we can’t be sure what it is) => TG ch115
they’re “clones” (think Star Wars, and in that case, there is still stuff we have yet to completely understand)

No matter the explanation, V’s creation is completely linked to the conflict of 100 years ago with the Nagaraj/the previous OEK, so I’m assuming the explanation behind the fact that they’re “special investigators”…

will come along when we know more about what happened with the Nagaraj and the 24th ward. 🙂

TL;DR I can’t be sure, but it’s not my primary theory about V.

Have a nice day Anon!

In Itori bar in the original TG Uta once said to Kaneki « do you want me to eat you in one bite » something like that. So, if he was telling the truth, he could be the OEK, but the question is if he the OEK, then why is he So, uninvolved in every conflict. For example, he could have done everything right, and fixed the system, but instead he did shit, and the comparison that he, and Yomo are equals ? I don’t know something seems wrong, although your theory seems right, but something is missing ?

midnight-in-town:

Hello! And really Anon? Uninvolved in the current conflict?

So I’m sorry Anon but the Clowns are very much involved: they’ve been since the beginning even if they took less space on the stage until the last few arcs.

As for your question, well, no longer than this afternoon, I posted a link to a theory on reddit, which explained the stance of the previous OEK and inhabitants of the 24th ward towards the situation of the last century with the Washuus and V, so I think you should read it. 🙂

I hope it will answer your question. Have a nice day!

Hello again 🙂 Actually V and Furuta were indeed searching for the “new OEK”, the one who was fulfilling the ideals of Aogiri tree (Arima), which is why they arrested Eto in the first place, because they wanted her to tell them who it was.

Honestly, I think that the previous OEK (whether it was Uta or not) was such a pain to deal with that V were dreading a similar scenario with whoever the new OEK was, which is why V is targeting Kaneki as of right now, because Arima, Eto and him all represent(ed) a threat to V’s “equilibrium”.

However, you are right, the theoretical cease-fire of 100 years ago is no longer valid seeing as V turned against the Washuus, and Furuta, helped by the Clowns, killed Old Tsuneyoshi.

I also agree that Furuta must have been looking for the previous OEK for a long time…

…since he joined the Clowns before Aogiri Tree became well-known, which is why I believe he has some sort of knowledge about the Clowns that we might not know about yet.
That being said, as I was discussing with @amonmahboi, I’m not sure Furuta knows about Uta possibly being the OEK, if just because…

…it seems that Donato was set up to act as the Clowns’ leader figure.
I don’t think the Clowns really have any “leader” though but, while they’re helping Furuta, he might remain some sort of outsider compared to the stronger bonds that might unite the other Clowns, which might be why Uta remains the anonymous figure when he might hold the most important title (it’s really hypothetical though, sorry about that but I can’t do better).

Finally, about Uta himself, it seems he’s gotten bored over the years when it comes to playing at being the peacekeeper (something he told Kaneki in TG vol 12), which is why he seems to prefer remaining an observer nowadays.

I do think that between the annihilation of one side and coexistence, Uta would rather vouch for coexistence, which explains his interest in Kaneki in the first place, but don’t forget that Kaneki’s side is supposed to convince the previous OEK to join the fight, if he’s to join at all.

All in all, Furuta’s “super peace”

[x][x][x]

is basically him edging Kaneki on with the current conflict, so that this war will lead to a change of situation between humans and ghouls, which is definitely why the Clowns are helping him in the first place (since they’re interested in a change, even if the bet is still on between them about whether it’s going to be the annihilation of one side or coexistence).

So whether Furuta knows about who the previous OEK is or not does not really matter for his plans in my opinion.

Please keep in mind that this is just a cracky theory though, we’re obviously short on hints, which is why it’s hard to completely explain everything so take all of this with a grain of salt.

I hope it makes some sense, though. 🙂 Have a nice day Anon!

I’m confused by that image of the Washuu family tree. It makes it looks like Arima and Rize are siblings…?

kingkishou:

animemoon13:

Wait so if the woman with the white hair is all three of there mothers then why is Rize a complete ghoul and Armin isn’t but is a half human.

^^

Sorry, this is like 4 metas deep and I’m trying to avoid re-explaining over and over because it makes me feel annoying haha.

Basically, the biology of the Garden kids– what makes a demi-human or half-ghoul or hybrid in general, and what specific criteria for “breeding” that the Washuu follow– are still very muddy and unclear. The information Itori gave Kaneki conflicts with what little Arima could get out while dying, so I don’t think either of them are completely dependable.

What I’m getting at is this: the terms “half-ghoul” and “half-human” aren’t the most reliable terminology because you can’t get a 50/50 hybrid species (as given by the fact that Eto was possible, even as an outlier).

kingkishou:

OKAY BUT LISTEN.

My friends are totally fed up with me constantly yelling about this, but I’ve been predicting that Arima and Rize were related waaaaaaaay before the family tree was released.

(plus Kaneki thought they were both beautiful lol)

I have some theories about how that’s possible, including the concept that a Garden child’s outcome (whether their traits are more or less ghoul-oriented) is basically a lottery based on their genetics, and their purpose (drone, womb, etc) is decided after the fact.

It’s kind of like how you can have siblings with different colored eyes. Under these circumstances, Arima could have a sister (or two, it looks like) who was born with more ghoul traits, and who would become a “””womb””” because of it.

Rize was in the Garden with all the others, so….

ANYWAY. Yeah I’m reading the family tree the same way. All the people Tsuneyoshi had children with are connected by a branch, and then the children themselves are umbrella’d by their mother. Rize and Arima are very distinctly connected to the same woman (alongside another unnamed person).

If the person above Rize was her mother and not her sibling, Ishida would have followed the “rule” he made, and connected her to Tsuneyoshi. But not, the woman with the white hair appears to be the mother of all three of them.

ex: two dog-wolf hybrids may look totally different, with one looking much more like a wolf, and the other looking much more like a dog. you can’t get one where the visible traits or temperament are cut straight down the middle.

If a hybrid with no kakugan or kagune is possible, then a hybrid with two kakugan and the ability to manifest a kagune should also be possible. Wombs– in this case, offspring who are the latter (like Rize)– could be hybrids who are simply fit to carry on the Washuu genes.

That’s how selective breeding (god I feel gross saying that lol) works: bolster the bloodline with traits you like (ie: kakugan, kagune), mix in other bloodlines to avoid birth defects from inbreeding, and weed out the traits that are “unfit” (no kakugan or kagune). It’s just that V found a purpose for their “unfit” offspring rather than scrapping them.

Efficient, I guess?

I’m curious if hide found out about ukina while doing his private investigation and reading dr.ogura’s book on ghouls in the og series, she was an investigative reporter and I always wondered she had other cases on ghouls before she moved on to V

Hello! Well I don’t know about Hide, but I’m really curious about Ukina in general, because a lot of things about her are just… strange. Like…

she was a journalist investigating V and yet she was also a waitress

so I always thought that she had been onto Kuzen from day 1. Which means…

that I’m wondering if Eto’s version is not actually the accurate one, because Yoshimura could never admit to himself that it had been all a lie and that the woman he loved was just using him from day 1.

Anyway, the point is, Ukina has to have come from somewhere because how did a human find out about V? So I’m thinking that she must have a link to someone/something else in the story (Sphinx? Yasuhisa Nanao? Kanou? the “evil ghoulification experiments by the CCG”? at some point I even considered Mado Kasuka) through which she found out about V and started investigating them by approaching Kuzen.

Back to your question, there is a good possibility that Hide might be backed up by someone (considering all the stuff that he knows) just like it’s possible he was acting on his own the whole time (and he has his own info network), so depending on which it is, he might or not know something about Ukina that we don’t.

I have a very old post about Ukina (so everything might not be 100% accurate) if you’re interested, but anyway I’m hoping Sensei will give us more answers about her, because I’m really looking forward to knowing what exactly happened and if she ended up falling in love with Kuzen over time or if Eto was really nothing more than “an unnecessary byproduct” where she was concerned.

Have a nice day Anon!

Hide disappeared in chapter 136 tho

Hello! And true, you’re right, so never mind. :3 There is literally no way the story can end in 5 chapters anyway, unless Ishida pulls a fast one on us because there is a third part.
I’m still unsure about this being the last arc or not though (obviously arcs can be short or long, but the question is will this arc end and we will have another time lapse or not?)… Anyway, I’m just glad Hide is back at this point.

Thanks Anon, really! You cheered me up. ^3^

Have a nice day!

Hello and I already detailed in my other post 😉

V will very probably remain with Furuta, seeing as they were against the Washuus, tried to kill Matsuri, and that they want to protect their equilibrium. As for the Garden, well, it depends what’s left of it?

What’s left of the 0 squad went with Kaneki for example, but Shao is with the Qs, Hairu will likely be a zombie soldier, so overall (besides the 0 squad) I believe the Sunlit Garden stays a part of V.

I hope I answered your question, have a nice day Anon!