Hi Anon! Thanks for reading and yeahhh, V was foreshadowed to be the big bad for a while now, so it made sense that they wouldn’t really enjoy this new common front between humans and ghouls. :))
So you see, Arima, Eto, Aogiri overall, Kanou, Furuta and probably even the Clowns, they all were against V…
because V has an “equilibrium”, a “peace” to protect and that implies for humans and ghouls not to be on the same side ever.
Except that it’s too late now…
which is why they’re starting to show themselves…
…trying to get the situation under their control again. 🙂
Thanks for reading and for passing by Anon! Have a nice day. ^_^
If Marude had to watch Yoshitoki be killed by V then please bury me immediately
@amonmahboi and I were just discussing this and frankly, it’s not impossible that the reason Matsuri and Marude are currently allies working together is because Marude and Yoshitoki couldn’t kill each other (old partners and all, besides Yoshitoki was seen as the nicest Washuu around), so when V arrived to kill Yoshitoki…
Old theory, but I want to bring back the idea that all the Garden kids were conceived via IVF, only they’re grown in incubators instead of getting transferred to a womb.
All those tanks in the original ghoulification facility beneath the Yasuhisa’s mansion, the pods in Kanou’s labs, the Oggai… something obviously had to keep the wombs from absorbing the fetus, and if it’s not daily doses of RC suppressants getting shoved into one of the parents, it’s an external fertilization system.
Unless Hide’s talking about Arima as the Washuu who was “in the way”, it might be indicative that Hide (the witch’s servant) really has been commiserating with Eto (the witch).
More importantly, there seems to be a circle here. The Washuu were suspicious of Hide, but V’s plans were being impeded by the Washuu. That put’s Hide on V’s tail to complete the circuit, as Eto’s accomplice. She was being tracked by both the Washuu and V since her birth, and was already using her mother’s notes to guide her in the truth about them.
Granted, Ishida writes that the witch’s servant was “tricked” into working for them, but I get the feeling it’s really not all that cut and dry. More like, he was riding the coat-tails to get closer to the prince.
Anyway, I’ll take a stab and say that Hide had a crazy amount of dirt on the Washuu and has been threatening to blackmail them for some time—
and the Washuu knew it. But how did the Washuu know their secrets were being ratted out? Who was tipping them off?
Well, maybe nobody was.
[Crack Theory Time!]
Maybe they knew Hide has been a threat from the start. Because while the Chika and Yoshi in 永近英良 (Nagachika Hideyoshi) and 和修時/吉時 (Washuu Chiki/Yoshitoki) are different, the Garden kids all notoriously use very strange spelling for their names.
“like a knight,” she says. but “Kishi” is usually spelled 騎士, not 貴将
“Yusa” is a common name, by typically spelled 結沙 instead of 夕作; Shio has an unusual spelling, as does Hairu, and Nimura’s is a play on his birthday, etc.
The point I’m getting at is that I think it’s time to dig up the old theory that Hide related to the Washuu. I remember hearing that he might be a nephew of Iyo’s, or that he might even be from the Garden himself, sent as a child to keep an eye on Kaneki (under the circumstance that his father actually was of great importance and that his death was notable).
If that’s the case, V has the right to be wary of the Washuu. If one of their people (two when you’re counting Rize) is out running amok with their secrets, endangering the precarious infrastructure of their rule…
We’d better buckle up. There’s still a good number of holes that need filling, and it’s hard to make any educated guesses about V’s motivation, but right now the focus should be that they’re still out there. We know they’re still looking to be in control, even if it benefits them to have the Washuu out of the picture.
The Death of the CCG has been predicted since the beginning of this Oggai/24th ward arc. Ironically, by one of it’s most loyal and steadfast investigators and the one who orchestrated it’s resurgence and rebirth when it was at it’s weakest point.
Yet we see, all of the members of the CCG left in the cast, not acting as if the CCG is responsible for this situation and on it’s last legs, but rather as if it’s the one whose going to solve the dragon crisis despite the fact that it caused it. If you’re just as confused as I am about the CCG’s role in things, read under the cut.
I liked your post, but I think that where I mostly started to agree with it is when you demonstrated how Marude and the CCG basically didn’t learn anything from Furuta (though I’m guessing the fact that he allied with Matsuri to take Furuta down is at least a progress in itself).
It’s a fact though, most of the CCG didn’t learn anything over 27+ volumes and that’s probably why Furuta didn’t mind one bit about slaughtering a large part of them into the plan to trigger Dragoneki’s apparition, because they’re not the main way to change this world, Kaneki is.
Similarly, in the newest chapter…
…We’re faced with many ghouls who followed Kaneki cheering him on and singing his praise for “getting revenge for all of them”, when until Dragoneki, Kaneki never killed a single investigator because he wanted for ghouls and humans to be able to coexist.
And that’s my main point: aside from a few humans on the CCG’s side and a few ghouls on Kaneki’s side, coexistence is still lost to both sides as the solution to a conflict that lasted for over a century
because they can’t seem to ever be learning. That’s why I think that the last part of Furuta’s plan wasn’t referring to Dragoneki himself…
…but rather to the final enemy that’s supposed to make them all “transcend the barrier of species”. So basically:
the CCG and ghouls will indeed join hands to defeat Kaneki => that’s Hide’s plan, I think he intends on using the few ghouls and CCG investigators who don’t want Kaneki dead to help him get out of the kakuja form within the next 72 hours (Akira, Amon, the Qs, Nishiki, Touka, Tsukiyama, Hina…).
And, when Kaneki is finally out, only then might the two sides finally learn something when the same monster that threatened them will surely defeat the “truly great enemy towering before them”…
…aka V.
Sorry to add on, I just found your post to be quite relevant of the current situation and in no way showing any confusion. 🙂 These people haven’t learnt because Kaneki needs to be helped first before he can show them the way against V, in my opinion.
Okokok. For the record, rereading chapters helps, but I might as well try to summarize simply what I think is going on. 😉
What’s Furuta’s plan?
Ultimately “super peace” is about changing the reason why this world was kept in a bird cage for so long, which leads to defeating the V organization that’s been in the background from the beginning, if the characters ever want to give a try to coexistence.
So far, V was the enemy of Eto, Arima, Kanou, Yoshimura, Furuta and probably the Clowns as well, so I believe they’re what you could call the “big bad” and they will surely soon come to face Kaneki, now that he became a threat to their “peace”.
What direction is the story headed?
Towards its ending. :))) Lmao, just kidding, no but basically…
100 years ago, the Nagaraj/king of the 24th ward/underground king started a war between humans and ghouls.
For more details, see here, but to make this simple, Furuta led Kaneki to become the Nagaraj 2.0 (aka Dragon) and so, thematically speaking, Kaneki is very probably going to end this very long war and change the way the world has been for the last century.
What we want at the end is coexistence but the big bad standing in front of our happy ending is V. So Furuta made sure Kaneki would become the Nagaraj 2.0 so that V would be forced to stop lurking in the shadows and come forward, so that they could finally be defeated.
What are the ghouls going to do?
If Kaneki doesn’t come to his senses soon, then they’ll probably rely on Tsukiyama…
And they will keep on striving for survival and then coexistence.
What is the CCG going to do?
There is no more CCG, Anon, because that’s what V relied on the most to keep their equilibrium and “peace” together, so Furuta had to destroy it.
All there is left are the few investigators who will stick to their belief that they need to protect their fellow humans from ghouls who might kill them. For now they are Hirako, Ui and Yusa, but there will probably be Suzuya’s squad as well as what’s left of the Qs squad.
Investigators-turned-OEG like Amon, Takizawa and Kurona might join them, just like the deserting investigators on Scarecrow’s side and Akira, but that isn’t certain yet.
First he will probably come back to his senses though, since he still has V to confront and an uncontrolled Kakuja is of no real help to anyone, as we could see lately. Whether the person who will help him to get it together is Touka, Yomo, Hide, all of the people close to him or someone unexpected is still up to debates between fans.
The question should likely be solved in one of the next chapters though, so please look forward to the following weeks. ^_^
I hope it helps! Please don’t forget to check the “tg theory” tag on my blog, if you’re in need of more details for the things I just explained. I believe I have a lot of recent posts addressing these subjects so you should find them easily. 🙂
Just thought I would write a quick post about this because my dash is filled with people suddenly seeing death flags for Kaneki everywhere. x)
Anyway, as the title mentions, in my opinion the fact that Kaneki became the equivalent of the Nagaraj and is destroying Tokyo doesn’t mean that, ultimately, the only possibility left for him is to be killed by an alliance made between Scarecrow’s side and the ghouls, led by who will probably be Tsukiyama (since he’s another ace card).
I won’t disagree that it is definitely what Furuta has in mind…
but narratively speaking, in my opinion, at this point it doesn’t make sense for Kaneki to become the “truly great enemy” and to die tragically when:
he doesn’t care about the rebellion
all he ever wanted ever since the very first chapter of TG was to belong in a family.
Kaneki’s OEK role was literally given to him by Eto and Arima…
at a time when Kaneki found that he had no reason to keep on living, which is why he focused on this task, because that was all he had to keep going forward. However…
…and even after his relationship with Touka blossomed, this part still didn’t change….
…the only reason that he “cared” about the future of ghouls mainly being related to Touka and the future he wanted with her (AKA becoming a family).
Now, I think that it’s no secret for anyone, and for Kaneki as well, that this lack of belief is mainly why he never managed to be a good leader:
…Leading to Ayato and Irimi trying to give him advice, and Tsukiyama being tired of the way he does things when they’re at war. So, in the end, it’s not surprising that instead of being the leader fighting for victory, he ends up being only a mean to someone else’s grand plan for the ending:
Back to the point at hand, the other reason I don’t think that redemption and happiness are out of Kaneki’s reach, despite the massacre he’s currently committing, is because…
…the Clowns are the public of this play…
and they already told us at the end of TG (”the tragedy” before :Re kicked in) that Kaneki dying tragically didn’t make for the best ending either (”how lame~”).
Finally, I’d like to add that if Kaneki dies, then Touka’s own development will stagnate because her fatalistic side has grown to be probably too overwhelming for her to manage dealing with it on her own [x] [x] and thus, the only way for her to have hope again is if Kaneki is by her side as well.
Hello Anon and thanks for reading! I really agree with how you’re presenting your arguments! ^^
Besides, to add a little on all that you said, Furuta becoming the de facto narrator would paint him as the mastermind and the ultimate big bad who orchestrated it all, while we know that Kaneki is just one mean to the end that everyone so far (Furuta, Kanou, Eto, Arima….) wanted, since ultimately the big bad seems to be V.
The fact that V remains a mystery when we know that at least Eto and Arima were against them (but really, I think Furuta, Kanou and maybe even the Clowns are too) makes me think that Kaneki cannot be “the last boss”, because, even if humans and ghouls ally against Kaneki, coexistence still means getting rid off V who is keeping the world locked into a bird cage.
Thanks again for reading and sharing your very interesting thoughts, I really agree with your arguments! 🙂
Wow, okay, I’ll do a little recap post because I mixed things up myself until fairly recently and I’ve been relying on different theories to explain, so I can understand that it’s not super clear. x)
From the look of things so far though, the whole theory is that it seems that there were two big conflicts relating to OEGs before Eto was born: one that led to the creation of the CCG and one that led to the creation of V.
So here goes:
1) 100+ years ago, a OEG appeared which led to the creation of the predecessor organization to the CCG:
My personal opinion is that this 100+ years old OEG is the “Nagaraj” that apparently destroyed the city Ayato found:
In Chapter 131, ‘Naagaraji’ ナァガラジ could be a reference to the Hindu mythology Nāgarāja “King of the nāga” (nāga meaning snakes) and also known in Japanese and Chinese mythology as one of the 8 great dragon kings. Among the Nāgarāja there is Vasuki, a snakegod in Indian mythology who was converted into a dragon king in Buddhism, then renamed “Washu-kichi”
和修吉(washukitsu) is just the assigned kanji for how Vasuki is pronounced in Japanese. Washuu only uses the first two kanji as a family name, and then whoever the successors are adds the last kanji from Vasuki to their given name.
(ex: Furuta Nimura => Washuu Kichimura)
…we can deduce a possible link between the Nagaraj and the Washuu family
Which would explain why the Washuus (who are ghouls) took the side of humans and created an organization in order to defeat him, even if we currently don’t know what happened and how it ended.
Personal opinion there again, but I’m not so sure this OEG is dead, especially since we learnt there is a way to “remain young” as a ghoul:
And also because there is one character that is associated to snakes, skeleton king and kitsune (kitsune being able to learn how to shape shift when they turn 100 years old).
I’m sure Ishida will tell us more about this at some point, because this OEG is linked to the creation of the CCG and will surely allow us to know about the Washuu family itself, but for now I believe that’s all we’ve got for this part.
2) However Kaneki’s side recently introduced a different OEG, the one who “almost destroyed the CCG” and who apparently** “built the 24th ward”:
And in order to defeat him, it seems that the “V” organization was created (?)…
…along with the development of quinque weapons…
…leading this OEG and his people to the 24th ward.
This OEG most likely was from a time around 50+ years ago (post WW2 if you would), which explains why Kaneki’s side thinks that he might still be around (even if old) to help them and why Ayato was sent down to finding that city.
However, this time, my personal opinion is that this OEG isn’t alive anymore…
Because it was Noro who, after being defeated by V, accepted to help Yoshimura with hiding Eto from them in the 24th ward and because
There is likely more to know about him and Eto’s childhood (and why Noro seemed to agree with Tatara’s plan to make the world “a society for ghouls”?) since Kaneki’s side currently is in the 24th ward anyway.
3) These two events led to the plot of TG
And mostly to Kanou experimenting to create OEGs…
because…
…he intends on breaking the equilibrium, which is why he allied with Aogiri Tree, an organization that wished to change things and make this a world for ghouls instead.
And that’s where we are in the timeline. 🙂
The Washuu family were the first who locked the world into a cage, by building an organization that would later become the CCG we know, because they wanted to defeat a OEG who was apparently threatening them or their position, as well as humans. Then V was created to defeat a second OEG and that’s when the lock on the twisted bird cage became sturdier…
because V became the peace keepers, the ones who strive to protect an “equilibrium” between humans and ghouls, making ghouls the predators and thus the danger to be fought against, all the while making sure that no new OEG would try to destroy the cage.
I don’t know yet the reason V allied with Furuta to turn against Washuu Tsuneyoshi (maybe it was because they found the Washuus weren’t as efficient as before at dealing with “issues” like Eto?), but the V organization most likely is the true villain in TG, the one Eto, Arima, Kanou, Kaneki and even Furuta were/are fighting against…
That’s the best summary I think I can give you so far, especially since there is likely to be more that we don’t know for now, so take everything with a grain of salt, especially the part about the possible two rebellions before the time of Eto, Arima, Furuta and Kaneki.
Finally, here are my thoughts as to what I think might happen after the current arc in the 24th ward. 🙂
I really hope it helps, feel free to say if anything is unclear. Have a nice day Anon!
Update: post ch144
By the way, about the second OEG who “apparently**” built the 24th ward: frankly I really wonder about that, because I really like this theory by @kingkishou saying that maybe the original city of Tokyo is the city deep below that Ayato found.
The architecture looks to be quite advanced for a city that some ghouls built after fleeing away and there is also what the kids told Ayato:
Because the Nagaraj apparently started the 100 years old war when Kaneki might be the one to end it, the Nagaraj destroyed the original city of Tokyo (?) when Kaneki is apparently starting to destroy “Neo Tokyo”…
So, in regards to the timeline above:
if the Nagaraj destroyed the old city of Tokyo after a fight against the Washuus and the predecessor organization to the CCG, then it means that the Washuus and the people built another city of Tokyo on top of the one the Nagaraj had destroyed
Enter the second OEG, years later, the one who almost destroyed the CCG and who was apparently defeated by the creation of V and quinques. Fleeing V, he and many ghouls escaped to the 24th ward, maybe even to the old city of Tokyo that had been destroyed many years before.
Enter Eto, who was given to Noro by Yoshimura, so that V wouldn’t be able to reach her. At some point Eto left the 24th ward and became an author -> no other information so far. Even later, she created Aogiri with Tatara and Noro.
Finally, Roma mentioned an “underground king” in ch135:
And I think she was referring to the Nagaraj => after the Nagaraj destroyed what might be the original city of Tokyo, maybe the reason another Tokyo was built on top of the previous one was because it was the only way the Washuus found to win against him, trapping him and locking him up underground.
There. Sorry it has to be so long. I hope it makes sense!
[x][x][x][x], especially since I consider that Furuta’s most likely talking about defeating V in that scene (”peace-loving idiots pissing themselves to death” = V) and not Kaneki:
Also you seem to forget that Furuta is counting on the current arc to have “Dragon” show up, it’s literally the name behind the CCG’s current mission [x] and he also called Touka and Hina “bait” (to Kaneki obviously), while taunting Kaneki about being too easy to predict and needing to grow as a leader.
‘Dragon’ 竜 is a Japanese shinjitai simplified from 龍 which figuratively means “sovereignty”, “king”, “chief”, and “hero”. The kanji 龍 is also used in the word 龍王 ”Nāgaraja; snake king; dragon king", a notable example of dragon and snake legends from Buddhist and Hindu mythology.
As Ishida introduced ‘Dragon’ 竜 in Chapter 128, he later on then introduced The ‘Naagaraji’ ナァガラジ in Chapter 131, both correlated with each other and with the word “king”.
And I quoted an explanation as to how the Nagaraj could be correlated to the Washuus here.
So, no offence Anon, but I always proposed Kaneki from a hypothetical point of view, as only recently standing out amongst the other possibilities for “Dragon”, meaning that I’m not saying I’m right, but just explaining why I personally think he’d fit.
On the other hand, I find you to be a bit too assertive about Dragon not being Kaneki, when you’re not even proposing anyone else in exchange. Just an advice, but maybe always try to present things in the most hypothetical way possible, otherwise you’re in for surprises if you’re wrong. 😉
TL;DR feel free not to believe that Kaneki is Dragon, in the end only Ishida (and Furuta) knows for sure. He seems to currently be the most likely possibility for me, but it’s totally okay if you don’t share the same feeling. 🙂
Have a nice day Anon.
Hello Anon! Please see above for the full explanation: I’m not saying that Kaneki is the only possibility for Dragon, it’s just that he’s the most likely possibility for me right now, considering the current arc and how I intepreted Furuta’s words in ch128.
I might be wrong, obviously, so this is just my personal take on it and no one has to agree. On a side note, I don’t recall comparing Kaneki’s kagune to the Nagaraj’s, so either it wasn’t my post or you’re misremembering with the comparison I made between Uta’s kagune and the Nagaraj’s. 🙂
Sorry if it doesn’t help so much, but have a nice day Anon!
@ Anons, while I think the confirmation will be for next week, here are some new hints that Kaneki is likely to be ‘Dragon’. 🙂
Hello! It’s either that or my interpretation of Furuta’s words in ch128 above for now, Anon. 🙂 Once again I really think that “Dragon” is the final boss for V, the one who’s going to make “these peace-loving idiots piss themselves to death”, which is why Kaneki is Furuta’s “ally” since Furuta’s (and everyone else’s) enemy is V.
I hope it makes sense!
midnight-in-town 