Kuzen’s Legacy

dreamofcentipedes:

I find it pretty awesome that Kuzen’s small act of defiance against V has sprouted into a full-fledged rebellion against them. By abandoning them and their values to try to create a small locus of peace in the world they corrupted, Kuzen proved another world was possible – the world that his friends and pupils are struggling to create now.

Kaiko realises the connection when Yomo mentions Anteiku, and much like Furuta’s criticism of Kaneki in the preceding chapter, Kaiko’s criticism reveals much more of his own flaws than those of his enemies. He can only see the world through a lens of manipulation and domination, and since his foes aren’t controlled by him, he assumes they must be controlled by Kuzen. He fails to understand their individuality and independence of thought and action, inspired by Kuzen rather than manipulated by him.

Kaiko’s obsession with the order of the herd is seen in his frequent use of the ‘we’ pronoun, referring to the collective interests of V. This is in stark contrast to the selfish Furuta, whom Kaiko naturally did not get along with – particularly in regards to his bad manners, which defy Kaiko’s orderliness and propriety.

The uniform faceless mass of black hats, coats and katanas that makes up V emphasises this collective, with Kaiko acting as the spokesman of the whole. He cannot stand rebels. Even now he resents Kuzen for breaking from the collective, disrupting its perfect unity, and still wishes to force him back into it. In fact, nearly every time we see Kaiko he’s mulling over Kuzen. That’s one hell of an axe to grind.

In the first, he joyously proclaims that Kuzen’s rebellion has come to nought, laying his anxieties at rest, while in the background Kaneki and Eto, the successors of Kuzen’s legacy, talk; thereby proving Kaiko wrong. In the second, his frustration is so great he breaks even his own rule of manners by swearing at the effect of Kuzen’s legacy in fermenting rebellion and disturbing his ‘peace’.

But his paranoia is justified – that single act of rebellion has caused his entire house of cards to come tumbling down. In the first series’ final arc, V’s control seems an unbreakable birdcage.

It’s implied in this scene that V orchestrated the Anteiku Raid to punish Kuzen’s insubordination, placing their well-polished heel firmly over Kuzen’s head. But in the final arc of :re, it’s Kuzen’s legacy that triumphs over V, and as for their birdcage…

Eto reveals the fragility of their seemingly solid control in the panels below. It rests precariously on a balance that is bound to eventually be overturned by the legions of oppressed beneath it, both the ghouls being slaughtered and the humans tricked into an endless war.

The return of Eto, as Kuzen’s child, is the most explicit symbol of the triumph of Kuzen’s legacy. Kaiko even refers to her as ‘Yoshimura’. 

The importance both of Kuzen and Eto herself in this arc reflects their significance in the Anteiku Raid. Eto was the first major destabilising element created by Kuzen’s disloyalty, and Kaiko directly attributes Eto’s actions to Kuzen:

So Eto’s victory over V is Kuzen’s victory as well, and like him, this chapter she has finally broken free from their control. 

The spectre of revolution has long been coming for V, and Kuzen’s small disruption of the system has led to its full-scale collapse.

so do I understand it right that the washuu/CCG fed human flesh and stole dead human bodies from public cemeteries?? THATS A HUGE FUCKED UP OMG…(That throws me more back than eto being back)

coromoor:

not just public cemeteries, but eating the fallen CCG Investigators too!

This really highlights Urie’s feelings over Shirazu’s death

ALL of the CCG have been mourning empty graves.

this whole time, Akira and Amon have most likely been talking to Mado’s empty grave.

Honestly, I feel like THIS over everything is what is gonna turn the CCG towards changing the way of the world rather than an empty promise of an alliance with ghouls. Not being able to mourn their loved ones properly is something they can sympathise with ghouls over. 

donatoporpora:

midnight-in-town:

midnight-in-town:

One thing I don’t get is that the Washuus are the ones who allied with the old CCG to take the One Eyed Washuu down 100 years ago 

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and then they created V when the second OEG of the timeline showed up??

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It was even around the same time as (or just before) they developed quinques for human investigators:

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So when did the change of power take place? When did the Washuus become a part of V (as Furuta explained in ch101) and when did V start having the upper hand when they were initially supposed to be the Washuus’ creation?

Unless V really existed before the Washuus, but then it would contradict some stuff that was said in previous chapters, I’m just ????? lost?

EDIT: never mind, @linkspooky pointed out to me that we’re probably supposed to read the scene as followed

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This little part that Kaiko is thinking…

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meaning that he’s simply still super mad that his pal Kuzen left V behind for Ukina and Eto all these years ago. 

TL;DR the Washuus still created V in order to defeat the second OEG of the timeline who threatened to overthrow the CCG just after WWII:

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now if I could just know who this gal/dude is that’d be nice

I’ve also been thinking that the Washuu became a part of V around when the second OEK appeared. Maybe V is an amalgamation of various influential families, primarily consisting of ghouls. As a part of V these families are producing soldiers in the form of half-humans for the organization. One hint suggesting that there might be other Washuu-like families elsewhere, is Shao. She’s a half-human who was born in Taiwan, but was sent to Japan’s CCG from an external source. I hope that makes sense.

@donatoporpora​ yeah, excellent point about Hsiao or even Germany, which has always been referred to as the #1 partner of the CCG (and both organizations belonging in V could explain this partnership).
We also still don’t know why Donato (who is Russian) was hanging around in Japan (not that there has to be a specific reason but eh).

That’s why the idea of a part 3 targeting a more international scale of TG’s world always sounded interesting (iirc Middle East was also mentioned by Yoshimura and there was also the link between the Rosewald and Tsukiyama families), even if I doubt that it’s ever going to happen by now. 

In the end, it depends if V is really just Washuu/Japan-centered or if there might be a real international side to it (Taiwan and Germany at least) and I can envision both possibilities honestly.
For example, maybe Hsiao could simply be born because at some point Tsuneyoshi visited Taiwan and had a fling with her mom, which is why she then joined the sunlit garden. Just like it could be what you said. 🙂

What we were told is that initially V seemed to be sunlit garden-only, but then they slowly opened their ranks to other strong ghouls (like Yoshimura)

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which is why V now represents an organization that is encompassing the Washuu family and the sunlit garden (and why they can afford to get rid of the Washuus). 

So maybe the same thing happened internationally, as in, the Washuus created V around WWII but then V slowly expanded over the years and ended having affiliations in other countries (Germany, Taiwan…). 

Since it really seems the Washuus created V to defeat the second OEG of the timeline though, then I’ll stick with this timeline until we’re given more info. :3

Thanks for your insight!

midnight-in-town:

Hey but…

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do you think that Furuta wondered about everything being done in vain because…

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even with everything that he did, it still was not enough to take V down ultimately? That would explain…

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why he lied to V about the White Suits? And why Donato and Uta made sure…

to take Eto with them?

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I’ve always been on team “everyone is against V” personally but…

¯_(ツ)_/¯

coromoor:

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IM SO EXCITED AT THIS MENTION

If they’ve been gorging Yoshimura on blood in a Lab deep within the CCG to make Owl Quinques, you know who else had some sort of medium mentioned?

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someone who was also name dropped this chapter

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LETS GO

the “gorging on blood” also reminds me of the Sphinx Liquid we’ve yet to get around to explaining!

perhaps this is what they’re being fed?

midnight-in-town:

Okay so, old thought using two different translations, and obviously I might be reading way too much into this, but I find it interesting that flashback!Uta seemed to have been discovering that the “No face” mask/identity was well-known from the CCG back when he was already leading the 4th ward.

I mean, he didn’t even know Arima when the guy was already a legend after defeating Owl…

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and also…

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he didn’t seem to know why he was so strong. Of course, he could just be bullshitting us and Yomo, but you know, listening to his flashback…

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it’s as if he… just popped up one day from wherever he was being kept before (since I still think he’s the most likely candidate to have the biggest link to the One Eyed Washuu) and he had to learn everything as it came to him. 

¯_(ツ)_/¯

you know, maybe flashback/young!Uta is to the One Eyed Washuu what Sasaki was to Kaneki?

Because the similarities between Uta and the One Eyed Washuu are real:

And besides, you know how the current situation is similar to the one 100 years ago, because Furuta got inspired by what happened with the Nagaraj? 

Well, we know that the dragon situation helped Kaneki, as well as the half-humans from V, to overcome their aging problem, so I’m not exactly certain but maybe all that happened 100 years made the One Eyed Washuu “younger” somehow.

Anyway, whatever happened, he possibly was held in captivity by the Washuus/the CCG/V for a long while, which could be why (as a parallel to Haise)

he initially had no memory of being the One Eyed Washuu or about his past. This could also explain why his name is simply Uta: he chose a new identity for himself when he got his reboot, just like Haise did.

I also don’t know how he escaped from V/the Washuus but maybe

So then, Uta found himself leading the 4th ward because he was the strongest around and because he had no idea as to what else to do with his life, but slowly he started getting all of his memory back, the way it happened for Kaneki…

…which would be when, I guess, he started tattooing his body with a lot of extremely significant patterns, that are meaningful regarding the situation 100 years ago but also the current one (since, again, there is a parallel).

Finally, Kaneki as a character does have a lot of parallel with Uta, especially if Uta also used to be the OEK as the One Eyed Washuu, which is why I guess Uta always referred to him as a very special customer (even back as Haise)…

…because he must have seen these parallels as well. 

Honestly, I think Uta might have gotten sick of leading the 4th ward for a reason related to his possible past as the One Eyed Washuu & one OEK of the timeline… 

…which is literally similar to Kaneki never wanting to become the OEK but doing so anyway, because he had no other reason to live on when Arima & Eto asked.

TL;DR I just wanted to point out the following parallels:

  • 100 years ago, the One Eyed Washuu was defeated by the old CCG and “was driven underground”. 

We don’t know what happened afterwards, but maybe the old CCG or the Washuus managed to get his body back and held onto him for years.

But isn’t it interesting that, in the Anteiku raid arc at the end of TG’s first part, Kaneki lost against the CCG (Amon++) and was driven underground too, facing Arima at V14, being defeated and taken by the CCG to become Sasaki Haise?

  • After escaping from where he was kept (?), “young”!Uta was tasked with leading the 4th ward because he was the strongest around, but this led to a conflict with Arima and the CCG almost destroying the place: 

Uta dropped the leader role after the fiasco though, which was 200% fine with him anyway, because he was enjoying working as a mask maker way more. 

But doesn’t this remind anyone of Kaneki becoming the OEK as soon as Haise remembered everything, because he was the strongest around, but this leading to a series of misfortunate events too, because Kaneki sucked as the OEK since he never wanted that role?

I’m just saying: Kaneki became the OEK, which ultimately led to a remake of what happened 100 years ago with the Nagaraj and, at the same time, Kaneki and Uta both sucked as leaders, but that’s because both were given roles that they never really wanted => that’s some real link between these two for me. 

  • Bonus: Uta’s reaction to this?

And this is super funny because if Uta really was the One Eyed Washuu, he got a second chance at life, even after fucking things up 100 years ago and with the 4th ward: now he does what he likes, which is being a mask maker and just clowning around with his old pals…

because he’s always been “quite the reprobate and that’s why [he] wants to stay in the thick of it” (from :Re ch116).
Kinda reminiscing of Kaneki hopefully getting the future and family that he desired as long as he can find a way to solve the current crisis and despite failing terribly as the OEK, no? 

Vasuki and Washuutski

linkspooky:

This is from an old post: 

The Washuu name itself may be connected to the tale of Vasuki. Source x, and also @hysyartmaskstudio​, and @karnasofsun on twitter.]

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Nagaraja, or king of the naga or snakes, is a hindu mythological word associated with several separate king dragon/snakes. One of these is Vasuki, which in japanese is rendered as Washuukitsu. Vasuki has several myths about being tied to a mountain or holding things together. [x]

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The chapter entitled “Saved from the Web” also featured this nod to hinduism, but at the end the characters who showed up, in spiderweb imagery on the background of their panels was V. Either as a reminder that Urie had not truly escaped from the Web, or they had been the ones who maintained the web by setting up the conflict that drove him there in the first place.

Hindu mythology also shows a war of binary opposition, between devas and asuras (angels and demons respectively), when one side became weakened they sought a ritual stirring of ‘Kasian Samut’ which is the ocean of milk, which thickened and concentrated will become the nector of immortality. 

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Vasukira, king of the naga had to bind his massive body around Mandra the mountain, into Kasiam Samut in order to mix it. The devas also used the asuras into stirring for them, by saying they will share it with them when the ritual ends. However Vasukira grew tired and released poison by the end of the ritual.

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The connections to tokyo ghoul then, are a bit obvious in this chapter alone we are given a small sampling as to what might be the source of the ghoul’s extended vitality.

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 Vasukira releases both a poison and it brews an immortality elixir the same way V views the poison that is released by Dragon as a source of life for them.

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There are already pieces of foreshadowing in place to suggest that either V, or humanity at large is seeking immortality through ghouls, or at least at the labor and behest of ghouls the same way Asura labored for the immortality of the Devas at the cost to themselves.

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V already also has in their possession, a way of preserving their grown up garden children who are destined to only live half lives, and also the members of the Oggai operation who were revived via ghoul cells. It’s likely that this medicine may just be the dissolved ghouls, pure rc cells then packed into liquid bottles and traded in secret by V. They also use a giant grinder in order to make them, and oh so conveniently, have a war going against the ghouls which provides them with a near infinite supply of dead ghouls in order to continue making this medicine if it really is concentrated Rc Cells.

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V has also, already disposed of the main head of this brewing process in Furuta’s hostile takeover. Perhaps modeling the same way Washuukitsu, in order to make his immortality elixir did so at great cost to himself and his own body.

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Achievable immortality, the mixers are definitely V, but they were born with half lives in the first place. They’re probably desperate to extend their lives by any means possible not rule over humanity forever with immortality. It’s more likely that the race of angels, the humans in this metaphor will be the one to reap the benefits of the conflicts created by ghouls and half ghouls. At least if things were to continue to spiral uninterrupted.

This is where I brought my original post to an end but, I’d like to discuss on that point as well. Let’s talk about the morality of V’s reckless way of extending their lives for a moment. Take doesn’t really have any kind of comeback for Kaiko’s taunts, even though he knows the truth of Kishou’s wants and sacrifices perhaps better than anybody else. 

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It makes sense that Take doesn’t really have anything to say in response though, as I’ve said in the previous two chapters, nobody on the side of the alliance has really surpassed V morally. Technically they’re fighting for the right side because they don’t want the world end, but in a good philosophy bad philosophy sense we don’t really know what the moral philosophy that the Goat Alliance is fighting for because they don’t even know themselves.

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Take himself even describes the mist that causes ghoulification as a “toxin” as if V accepting the poison into their bodies somehow made them dirty, or unclean now that they’ve become ghouls.

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It is a toxin in a sense that in some patients it’s causing cancer like symptoms and tumor formations, but what about the cases where all it does is turn them into ghouls. Of course, unwilling change of species is still a violation of the body but a human doesn’t suddenly become lesser if they are transformed into a ghoul.

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There are some patients who aren’t experiencing the ROS overload or cancer like symptoms that Saiko displays, some of them are just turning into plain old normal ghouls. Of course the world would be unsustainable if everybody turned into ghouls but do those people really need to be cured? Wouldn’t it be more practical to just stop the spread of the poison and find a proper food source and education source for all the new converted ghouls instead?

The thing is, being turned into ghouls unwillingly, living as ghouls is still seen as the worst fate ever (even to Take who was part of a ghoul rebellion), because the vast majority of the cast hasn’t even solved nor thought about the central conflict of the series. They all have a case of “ghoul icky.” So we see V’s desperate attempts to extend their lifespan in an entirely unsympathetic light.

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V is chopped apart horrifically by the CCG agents and ghouls alike, but it’s fine, they’re the bad guys, they’re completely disposable. In the manga which has been arguing against “otherization” tactics when fighting enemies and dehumanizing them, there’s a suspicious lack of any humanity in V itself.

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V however, are a matured zero squad They’re grown up garden kids. It’s explicitly confirmed for us in this chapter, but it was laid out by Furuta a long time ago.

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They’re quite literally bred and then raised from birth with the sole purpose of killing ghouls. Unlike all the ghoul investigators who chose their job, and can walk away any time without any consequence at all and just quit and start a new life, the V agents are born into this life and they only have a half life to live such a pitiful life in the first place. 

Before you say I’m sympathizing with V though, I’m not, they’re obviously the villains. Yet at the same time I have to wonder if Goat has any moral high ground over them, and if that’s the challenge the narration has to take. V is undefeated so far, because the CCG’s tactics are V’s tactics, and Marude hasn’t changed anything at all from his playbook besides “listen to Hide sometimes.”

The Washuu are much more responsible for the state of the world, and they were the ones actively breeding human beings, conducting human experimentation and profiting off of it. V were cogs in the machine who went along with Furuta’s plans for a coup because it was literally their only way to keep living.

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Matsuri frames his revenge against V as a noble revenge against his father, when V was dispatching a tyrant who controlled all of their lives from birth, and profited off of it entirely. There’s also the fact that Marude, and Hide are completely okay with cooperating with Matsuri. Matusri’s entire reasoning for doing so is not because of regret for his actions, he doesn’t feel an ounce of regret for what he did as a Washuu and a ring leader of V. He’s only doing it to survive when this is all over.

As for the loss of human life it took to create dragon, quite literally nobody in the entire cast cared that Kaneki devoured 100 children willingly in order to extend his own lifespan as well. 

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 Then there’s Kimi, who was completely okay with Dragon happening if it allowed her to prove the useful medicine of ghoul science. Medicine is a life extending technique as well. 

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Her motivations are also entirely selfish as well. It’s not that ghouls are killed simply for what they’re born as, exterminated on sight without even due process so innocent ghouls are just as likely to be killed as mass murderers. She needs to change the world so she can get back together with her boyfriend. 

It makes me wonder if in a way V itself are the asuras of the myth. They’re the ones being tricked into brewing the immortality elixir for the rest of society, because as bred half ghouls and garden children they’ve been disposable since the beginning. They’re the other and the bad guys, so nobody cares that much if they’re overcome by the alliance and slaughtered entirely to produce a better world where ghoulification and ghoul medicine are now norms for humanity to reap the benefit of. 

In the past, V was at least being used that way by the Washuu in order to stage their shadow conflicts. It’s pretty clear V considers themselves a separate entity after the Coup, so all of their earlier actions were much more likely orchestrated by the Washuu before Furuta took control, for the benefit of solely the Washuu.

As I’ve said before, not a lot of these characters care that much about the actual morality of the ghouls vs human conflict. That’s something they need to do in order to ideologically overcome V. V is bad because they kill ghouls, but they were half humans raised from birth in order to do so. There are plenty of human characters in the cast who slaughtered ghouls left and right in the past with no remorse at all, and completely chose that lifestyle. The CCG is like a day job they don’t punish deserters they could have left the conflict any time. V are half ghouls they were born into it, the conflict is literally inseparable from their beings. 

To make a better world, these characters first have to think “How am I better? How will I be better?”

The theme of the manga ultimately is “Live”, so it’s rather fitting that the motivation of the villains is a simple desire for them to live as well. 

Two Arks and Two Covenants

aspoonofsugar:

This
phrase reminded me of the title of chapter 150, Ark, so I started
wondering if these 2 chapters should be read as complementary and if this new
chapter should be in a sense a subversion of the chapter Ark.

In
itself the title Ark can be a reference to two Biblical anecdots.

The
first one is the Noah’s Ark where Noah is ordered by God to build an ark where
a couple for every animal species is to be hosted, so that after the Flood the
world can still be repopulated once again. The reference to Noah’s Ark may be
because in chapter 150 we see the two species joining hands in order to survive
a situation (Dragon) which is presented as apocaliptic.

However,
this chapter’s title seems a reference to another Ark which is mentioned in the
Bible i.e. the Ark of the Covenant (a synonym for Alliance). This Ark was built because God ordered so
and it is a symbol of both the presence of the divine in the world and the
alliance between God himself and the Jews. This reference seems fitting as well
since in chapter 150 an alliance was made between the two races.

However,
it seems to me that Ishida kinda inverted the titles of this chapter and of chapter
150. As a matter of fact chapter 150 is where an Alliance is made and in this
chapter we are finally revealed what the Ark is and this revelation is a
subversion of the interpretation which was given previously. This is because
the Ark wasn’t something made to assure the survival of the humans, but it is
something made to specifically help half-humans, so the people who were
victimized by the previous system. What is more, the way these people are saved
through the Ark is not by becoming humans, but ghouls, so the race which was
considered by the Washuu themselves inferior and demonic.

The
Alliance itself can refer two different covenants. The one presented to us in
chapter 150 between humans and ghouls and the one between Furuta and V. What is
more, Dragon (the Ark) is the reason of both alliances since it is the reason
why humans and ghouls united, but it is also why V accepted to help Furuta as
this chapter made clear. In a sense Dragon is the Ark of the Covenant between
Furuta and V.

What’s the katakana for « Vaske »?

kenkamishiro:

kenkamishiro:

@midnight-in-town

I just saw the post, thanks for tagging me! You’ve got some really great relevant ideas and I’m tempted to change it to to ‘Vasuki’ but I think I need to hear some more input from other people before I do so. It’s bugging me that it’s written like ヴァスケイ (pronounced ‘vasukei’) when ‘Vasuki’ could easily be written as ヴァスキ or ヴァスキー  (pronounced ‘vasuki’), which makes me wonder if it was intentionally written like that to suggest another meaning of ‘cleaner’.

kenkamishiro:

It’s ヴァスケイ.

Tbh I have no idea if ‘Vaske’ is the right word for it, so I’m willing to listen to other suggestions for what it could be.

@hattorikei

Japanese “Vasuki” article has
ばすけい in it. Could it be a chinese
pronunciation? 

I looked at the article, and I think you’re right. It does say that ばすけい is how Vasuki would be pronounced using the Chinese characters.

I’ll get the line changed to Vasuki asap then! Thanks for your help 😀

About “Vaske”

midnight-in-town:

midnight-in-town:

Guys I think the translated full name of the V organization, is actually supposed to be “Vasuki”.

(@kenkamishiro​ if you would be so kind as to provide us with the romaji, maybe it could help? :3)

 Copy-pasting an old explanation from ch144 about why Furuta chose the name “Dragon”:

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In Chapter 131, ‘Naagaraji’ ナァガラジ could be a reference to the Hindu mythology Nāgarāja “King of the nāga” (nāga meaning snakes) and also known in Japanese and Chinese mythology as one of the 8 great dragon kings. Among the Nāgarāja there is Vasuki, a snakegod in Indian mythology who was converted into a dragon king in Buddhism, then renamed “Washu-kichi”

[…]

和修吉(washukitsu) is just the assigned kanji for how Vasuki is pronounced in Japanese. Washuu only uses the first two kanji as a family name, and then whoever the successors are adds the last kanji from Vasuki to their given name. (ex: Furuta Nimura -> Washuu Kichimura)

‘Dragon’ 竜 is a Japanese shinjitai simplified from 龍 which figuratively means “sovereignty”, “king”, “chief”, and “hero”. The kanji 龍 is also used in the word 龍王 ”Nāgaraja; snake king; dragon king", a notable example of dragon and snake legends from Buddhist and Hindu mythology.

As Ishida introduced ‘Dragon’ 竜 in Chapter 128, he later on then introduced The ‘Naagaraji’ ナァガラジ in Chapter 131, both correlated with each other and with the word “king”.

[x] [x]

Remember, V was first created to fight against the second OEG of the timeline, before Eto:

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So I really think “V” is actually meant to be “Vasuki”.

I hate everything: guys please read this post. It’s partially what I quoted above, but it has the full myth about nagas (OEGs), Vasuki and Garuda explained, which is basically the current Dragon situation between V, Furuta and Rize.
It even finally explains why Furuta “jokingly” called himself a bird in ch138.

Also…

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Now that we know about “Vasuki” being subtitled “victory”, I still am not sure what to make of Donato being the “king’s crown” exactly, except for this part with the almost similar clown masks…

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but I’d bet you anything that it has to do with the One Eyed Washuu since he’s also a part of the myth (seriously go read the explanation I linked to) because he was driven underground…

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Uta is still the most likely suspect btw (especially since he’s also associated with the cross pattern, like Donato, and a link between them makes sense since Donato is “Crown”, the “king’s crown”). 

We’re still missing on who the second OEG of the timeline is/was though (Noro? Itori?).

Spooky-chan is going to roast me again for the public conspiracy theory, but 

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Maybe that’s why Donato was called that?

Ahhhh, I really hope that Uta’s still non-meaningful tattoos aren’t supposed to represent his pals (without mentioning the one(s) he possibly has on his backotherwise I… don’t know what I’m going to do. ;_;