The thing I find funny is that in chapter 131 Undertaker said that he cared about the twin (or so I understood) « because they’re Phantomhives » so isn’t it a weird statement if he’s their grandfather? I don’t know if what I’m saying makes sense but to me this sounds weird, because it’s not that he seems to care about any link between him and them just that they’re Phantomhives. Oh well, maybe I just don’t get it lol. Have a nice day Acchan!

midnight-in-town:

Hi Anon and don’t worry, I totally agree with you! In my opinion, there are two reasons this statement sounds weird:

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  1. to avoid confirming/denying the UT = Cedric theory, because him caring about the P family is simply linked to whatever happened with Claudia
  2. because, if the UT = Cedric theory is true, UT’s probably not exactly the best parental figure anyway.

#1 is just the way Sensei rolls, so moving on to #2: we’re talking about someone who, despite obviously caring about the P family in his own way, still let the Campania arc happened after realizing that Ciel was on the same ship, to say nothing of him becoming (unless he already was) a mass-murderer with a smile on his face. 

Of course, UT’s reasoning during the Campania arc was that Ciel would definitely be safe because Seb would protect him…

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…but that doesn’t make UT less of an asshole in general, and same goes for possibly knowing that the Midfords were there too but deciding that

¯_(ツ)_/¯

they would surely be safe because they are skilled + Ciel wouldn’t let anything happen to them anyway. 

So, as I was saying, if UT somehow is Cedric, then I doubt he ever was “daddy of the year”, if just because if he’s Cedric, then how comes Tanaka was all that Vincent and Frances had left after Claudia passed away?
It doesn’t even matter whether or not he was around or her husband or whatever. From the moment they were 15 and 12/13 years old, the least to do is to keep an eye on them immediately after. :/

But hey, while we’re on the subject, this is UT during the Weston arc…

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and sometimes I really wish I could wave in front of his face and say “hi, Shinigamis are originally humans too, you know?”. 

I mean, I’m aware that we didn’t know about the true nature of Shinigamis back then, but still personally I think that speaks volumes about UT’s current psychology not being what you’d call “usual”, which is why it’s not so surprising that he’d fit on the margin of society. 

Then again, it was implied that he didn’t have a very happy existence, so it makes sense that we know he can care about others (obviously he showed us that with Vincent and Ciel), but it’s just often not… demonstrated in the best way or for the most logical reasons. 

This is my example of Tanaka apparently being the only parental figure Frances and Vincent had left after Claudia passed away yet again, no matter if the UT = Cedric theory is true or not…

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Because in my conception of UT’s character and considering how he’s still crying about Vincent in canon, I really wouldn’t be surprised if UT turned out to be utterly depressed after Claudia’s death (especially if he was in love with her), until he remembered that she had kids (who possibly are also his)

he might as well keep an eye on

So you see, for all we know initially it probably even wasn’t directly for the sake of Claudia’s kids that he became one of Vincent’s evil nobles, that is, until he got attached to Vincent too. In that case (sorry for rambling xD), it’s the same thing for that weird sentence of ch131…

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…that I personally chose to interpret as UT implying that he would care about the twins “because they’re Phantomhives” (as in “related to Claudia/Vincent”) and not because he’s possibly their grandfather. 

Again, I don’t know if the reason for that is that he was so enthralled by Claudia that it was not even about his own feelings at first but about what he thinks she would have wanted, or just that he simply doesn’t know how to act in a normal way and thus all that he’d rather do is awkwardly care from afar.

TL;DR UT is such a pain as a character sometimes, because he’s definitely selfish and he acts terribly, but at the same time you can’t really doubt of how much he cares and gets involved when it comes to Claudia’s family: 

  • if he’s Cedric, he possibly abandoned Frances and Vincent (whether or not he was around in the first place) for a few years after Claudia died, which kinda sucks, 
    • but he still ended up coming back as “the Undertaker” after a few years and dedicated a large part of his time to helping Vincent with the Watchdog duty
    • also he barely knew the twins that he had already decided he’d care about them just because they were related to Claudia/Vincent
  • Caring about Ciel didn’t stop him from throwing him off a staircase though, because he knew Seb would protect Ciel and he wanted to get to Seb
    • and yet, UT’s involvement in the Campania and Weston arcs could also be seen as possibly trying to get to the Queen, because the Watchdog duty remains one of the two big threats that could end up killing Ciel.

Anyway, sorry for rambling. x) As you can see, I love how complex UT’s character is but I agree that it’s slightly painful how full of contradictions he seems to be. :3
Maybe knowing more about him will help us understanding him or his motivations better though, so please just take everything with a  grain of salt!

I hope it’s a little helpful, have a nice day as well Anon. ^3^

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@kajuned

Thanks for reading and no worries :)) it’s an argument (with the doubt that shinigamis can reproduce in the first place) that was used more than once and I hadn’t meant to imply that that his other lockets weren’t important in the first place, because clearly they’re part of his treasure. 

So I’ll clear up the misunderstanding but first, I have two arguments to oppose to yours:

  • the story is about Ciel Phantomhive & Sebastian Michaelis 
    • so I don’t want to make a generality, but I think Sensei wouldn’t seem to insist so much on UT if his link to Ciel’s family wasn’t particularly plot-relevant (as opposed to just being a part of UT’s character) 
  • again, not to make a generality, but you can have several people you’re extremely close to and fond of (friends for example), but fall in love with just one person. In other words, I think that’s a pattern with his lockets too: UT liked them all for different reasons.
    • this is Druitt’s example here, he’s so damn funny that UT protected him from everyone on the Campania, including from drowning, but I’d still say that Druitt is less important than Ciel for UT.

If you remember: UT’s lockets aren’t an exclusive list of people he cares about, otherwise Vincent would be on it, so in my opinion, his lockets are possibly an indication that he thinks he should be able to bring these people in particular back with his BD project. 

As I said, what this means is that he most likely was very fond of the people represented by his lockets for different reasons but still, there also are hints Claudia is the one he possibly fell in love with amongst all of them.

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Whether these hypothetical feelings were reciprocated we don’t know, but that doesn’t really matter since we’re focusing on UT’s point of view. 
So my point is that whatever I said above works no matter if the UT = Cedric theory is true or not, because the only argument my post about UT is based on is the idea that UT possibly was very much in love with Claudia. 🙂

In fact, UT = Cedric is not plot relevant, at least as far as we currently know (it doesn’t change any big element of the plot). I mean, it gives UT a name and that’s why I like it, but basically that’s it. What’s relevant (and already canon) is that UT ended up keeping an eye on Claudia’s family probably because of Claudia herself.
That’s why I said above that UT said he “would care about the twins because they’re Phantomhives” (as in “related to Claudia/Vincent”) and not because he’s possibly their grandfather.”

Again, I’m not saying that he’s not keeping an eye on other people as well, but the plot revolves around Ciel & Seb, so UT’s careful watch over them as well as Claudia’s locket will most likely always get a bigger focus than the other lockets, but that’s not particularly relevant to whether UT is Cedric or not in my opinion.

TL;DR my post above is unrelated to UT being Cedric or not, it’s all about UT keeping an eye on Claudia’s family because he initially cared about her a great deal or (if he didn’t love her) simply because he found her very interesting. That’s what I was trying to explain about ch131. 🙂

I hope I’m the one making sense ^^

The arguments against the UT = Cedric theory are more than a few though, so no worries if you don’t think it’s possible, you’re not the only one. Thanks again for reading!

serinigalini:

Can we please talk about this?

In the last chapter of the Campania arc, Our!Ciel witnessed one of the closest friends of his family who has been around forever turn into a completely different persona, revealing his true self.

However, when UT’s lockets fell, Our!Ciel caught them and Undertaker trusted him with keeping the lockets safe.
Even though his body went limp due to the cold, he still held with all the strength he had onto the funeral lockets
Even though Undertaker caused the bloodshed in the arc and almost killed his butler, he still held tight onto UT’s treasure.

I guess the Phantomhives have a tendency to trust the retired handsome grim reaper.
Cloudia please explain everything to us, where are you, Undertaker’s sweetheart.

Ohhh yeah definitely @serinigalini I mean, I don’t know for the others, but that seems true enough for Ciel. Look at this scene in the current arc…

…Ciel had almost forgotten that UT wasn’t around anymore after what happened on the Campania and Weston, despite confronting him as the villain of these two arcs.

I think this is rather telling of Ciel not having any idea what to do or think about him, because he’s been around for a while:

that could be why, upon learning that one of his lockets is Claudia’s, you have both Seb & Ciel thinking about moments where UT foreshadowed having more specific goals than just messing around. 

Do you think we’ll ever know about the other mourning lockets UT has? :>

Hi Anon! And yeah I think so, at least a little more than the absolute nothing we currently “know”, if just because Claudia is one of his lockets. 🙂

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In the first place, I think we’re bound to get a flashback/story time about UT at some point, because there is a lot to explain between:

  • why he deserted
  • what happened 50 years ago since it’s mentioned 3 times 
  • how he met Claudia?
  • how, why and when he became the Undertaker (my current take)
  • when he decided to start experimenting about the BD project
  • who taught him that having fun was the best feeling
  • and hopefully why, briefly, these other lockers are important to him (were they friends with UT?)

Besides, the locket of “Alex B” is often emphasized on too, it’s the only other locket we’ve seen clearly, so maybe at least this one will get a little focus. 

That being said, not to crush your hope, but it’s rather natural that Claudia’s would get more focus than the rest of his lockets since she’s the grandmother of one of the MC and she probably (in)directly ties with the part of the plot about “who killed Vincent and why”, since she was his predecessor. :3

Anyway, all we can do is wait. UT seems to be involved with this arc anyway, and there is Othello who was there 50 years ago so we should know more about UT (and possibly his lockets) thanks to these two facts, at some point towards the end of the arc. :))

I hope I answered your questions, have a nice day!

Hi. Do you think Undertaker preserved Claudia’s body? He said he’s hobbies are taking out organs of his guest but since Claudia’s not just any guest and kind of special case he can preserve it if he wanted to. So.. what do you think, Midnight in town? Thank you and have a wonderful day!!!

Hi Anon, you can call me Acchan if you want. 🙂

One thing first though, for the record here’s what UT actually said about “his hobby” in ch6, because it’s not exactly as you put it 😉

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Now about your question: if we’re considering that UT’s lockets represent people he intends on bringing back, then the reason someone like Vincent doesn’t have a locket probably is because…

…his body got too damaged to be brought back, implying that he possibly managed to somehow preserve the bodies/skeletons of the 7 people he intends on bringing back, which means Claudia’s too

I have no big idea as to how he managed to do that though. I mean, taking the oldest locket…

…it’s been over 50 years since Mally/Molly died and even though it takes a while for a body to fully decompose, I don’t know what could be left of her right now.

Embalming is my main idea as to how he possibly preserved the bodies

(especially since he’s a mortician) for now, but it could be something else for all I know.   

I hope it answers your question, sorry it can’t be more precise for now. Thanks for passing by and have a nice day yourself Anon! ^3^

serinigalini:

Can I just say that I find it obvious that the skeleton on the Undertaker’s death scythe is Cloudia herself

I mean it. There’s that picture of Undertaker dancing with that skeleton which was decorated with roses (roses could symbolise the Phantomhive family) and his face is really close to the skull, meaning that he was being affectionate.

There’s also another picture from that dating game where the Undertaker has a skeleton once again decorated with roses behind him but on the skeleton’s finger there’s a shining ring.

In addition, there’s the fact that during the campania ark, Undertaker says that he couldn’t simply part ways with his scythe because “they’ve been through so much”. He could be talking about the scythe as a weapon there, or perhaps about Cloudia.

Lastly, UT said while tearing up in the Green Witch ark about Vincent “Poor thing, even his BONES turned to ashes.” Is it possible to revive an individual using his bones?

So who exactly is Cloudia? Did UT get his scars from experimenting on himself in order to preserve Cloudia’s skin and bones? Where exactly is Cloudia now? What about her soul? Is she going to be a shinigami somehow? Will she be UT’s masterpiece bizarre doll, if you could call her a doll?

@serinigalini

Just a precision on what he said about Vincent…

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…This is a more accurate translation of the scene (the “bones turned to ashes” part really was an amplification), so yeah, it seems logical to think that he can’t bring back a dead person whose body was completely damaged (thus also why Vincent doesn’t have any locket when UT mourns him so much). 🙂

Other than that, I think you are correct in thinking that the skeleton on his scythe could be Claudia’s: first of all, it originally wasn’t on the scythe…

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but also, the crown of thorns around the skeleton that’s keeping it attached to the scythe…

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…is another “Phantomhive thing”…

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So personal opinion there, but I’d say that UT’s big wish could be to manage to turn the people represented by funeral lockets into masterpiece bizarre dolls indeed. 🙂

So do you think that undertaker wants Vincent to be back as a bizarre thingy?

Hello! Oh, well, UT wishes to bring Vincent back alright…

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but that doesn’t mean he thinks he can do it with the Bizarre Doll project since he has no locket for Vincent.

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Just to make things clear about the theory concerning the chain with the lockets, UT said…

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…that he started getting curious about what editing the records would do “after spending a long time as a Shinigami”, which means that we can’t be sure whether he had already deserted or not when he started wondering. 

In any case, the “first locket” is about a person named Molly/Mally who died in 1837 and as you can see below:

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Not every locket seems to contain hair (Molly’s, Gilbert’s, Emile’s). 

So the fact that Vincent doesn’t have a locket, despite UT apparently still mourning him so much (ch105, ch107.5), seems to have nothing to do with his body being burnt badly and UT not recovering any hair to make a locket for him. 

That’s why I think that this chain with the lockets is related to the Bizarre Dolls project in the first place (as in, he started experimenting and created Bizarre Dolls because ultimately he wanted to bring back these 7 people), and Vincent not having any locket might mean that UT doesn’t think that he can bring him back through the BD project because…

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his body was too badly damaged when he was killed. 

TL;DR I think UT’s chain with the lockets is still relevant to his current goal(s) and the BD project and it’s also a part of the reasons why I’m, for now, not convinced that he brought the twin back in the current arc (for more details, see here).

I hope it is understandable. Have a nice day Anon. 🙂

Crack-theory of the Day: The Undertaker creates his own army of zombies against those created by the queen with John Brown! (Or just zombie pawns that will be useful to him in this war.) I thought that you might like it XD

Hello Anon 🙂 And honestly, it’s not that cracky (but then again, everyone has their own levels of cracky). xD

Personally, I really do think that the Undertaker’s main concern and opponent for now is the Queen, as @hitsugikuro explained very well here, so him trying to thwart her plans would make sense. 🙂 
A battle between two zombie armies sounds a little burlesque though and, even if I certainly like your crack theory, I have always envisioned that UT’s reason to start the BD project…

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…was his chain of lockets, so it’s all about him being selfish.

I know that the most popular theory is that he’s the one who brought the twin back because it seems that’s what his BD project amounted to ever since the Campania arc, but if that were the case, then I wonder why the lockets were such a big focus (ever since the circus arc) and appeared to be so significant to his character.

Anyway, as I was saying, your crack theory definitely suits my tastes, it’s just that I really think the reason UT would even see Victoria as his opponent in the first place is because of the Phantomhive family, so making an army to counter hers is even too selfless for him. 

It’s not like UT cares about anything that happens to anyone unless it involves the P family (or special people like Druitt xD), so I doubt that he cares about Victoria’s possible future zombie army but more about being a pain to Victoria herself and there are simpler ways to do that than to create his own BD army.
It’s still possible at this point though, that’s why it doesn’t really sound like a crack theory to me. 🙂 Thanks for sharing it!

Have a nice day Anon ^^

silyabeeodess:

abybweisse:

silyabeeodess:

I remember a while back seeing a post that talked about the mourning lockets that Undertaker had, but it also being really hard to see the details on some of them.  So, in case anyone’s interested, here is the list of names on the lockets along with the dates of the deaths of who they match to according to the concept art for Book of Atlantic:

  • Mally G.– Dec. 10th, 1837
  • Oliver A.–Nov. 13th, 1840
  • Emile C.–June 18th, 1848
  • Harry E.–Oct. 7th, 1851
  • Alex B.–April 20th, 1854
  • Cloudia P.–July 13th, 1866
  • Gillert D.–Mar. 1st, 1884

I’ll have to check the rest, but I’m painfully aware that Gilbert D. is actually March 1, 1862….

@abybweisse  I have the photos from the BoA concept art here.  That is the reference I’m using:

I wanted to say that I read your theory about Claudia being Sirius and I think it could be that because the more I think about it the more I find Claudia’s locket to show the meaning of [endless love]: endless with the reversed infinity symbol (reversed because the lockets are longer than large) and love with the ring around the infinity symbol.

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Akjbgfdjbkflkzelfel oh Anon that’s so beautiful and it makes a lot of sense too!

Thank you for reading that theory in the first place, and personally I hope you’re
right with your interpretation (and I’m hoping we’ll get some answers about Lord Sirius soon, maybe in the next chapter, so we can see if the Sirius = Claudia idea really has a basis).

Thanks a lot for sharing and for passing by 😀 Have a nice
day!


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Hey Anon! 

Well, now that I’m free again, personally I wouldn’t mind if chaos were to start next chapter, haha! Anything would do really, as long as we get some answers or bigger clues as to what’s really going on :3

Still though, looking at it from a rational point of view, vol 23 had chapters from 109 to 114 so it’s likely vol 24 has chapters from 115 to 120, since ch120 is a special chapter and there is an arc recap in ch121. 

What I mean is, going by the usual 6 chapters/per volumes, vol25 should go from ch121 to ch126, so a big big cliffhanger/something really crazy might not happen before a few more chapters. That doesn’t mean we won’t get interesting content but just that actual chaos might start after ch126. 

Besides that though, I’m really looking forward to it and I wouldn’t mind either Bravat doing something crazy or Ciel speeding along to finish this case only to realize he had no real idea of what was really going on behind the scenes.

Seeing Abberline again or finding out about why some important Lords are giving money to the sect would be great too! 

Thanks for passing by Anon and have a nice day :3