Hello, a few weeks ago you posted an omake of a younger Tsuneyoshi Washuu fighting Roma. He referred to her as a « special third degree » which a note below states was terminology used before 1945. So, this was at least 1944, and assuming TG takes places in our current decade then it’s been over 70 years. This is strange because Roma’s backstory said she was 51. This age was given after showing a picture of her as a child. So, could this be the age she was in the picture, and is now much older?

Hi Anon! Oh, I’ve seen a debate on that actually between @echo-from-the-void and @eto-when-and-where [x] and I meant to try and help, but I was so very busy last week that I thought I would leave the matter alone until I had enough time to try and solve whether this is a little plot hole or not. ;_;

Anyway, I gave it some thinking after receiving your ask, so here’s the thing: I don’t think there is any plot hole, it’s just that we all made the mistake to assume that…

image

…Roma was approximately 51 years at the time of ch135. So actually, I think the omake you’re talking about

(credit goes to @randomthoughtpatterns for the translation)…

image

is a hint to the very complicated timeline about the remaining Clowns that we still know almost nothing about.

Basically, I think Roma was 51 years old at the time she was thrown into Cochlea (that panel of ch135 indeed), but what’s left is for us to determine when exactly that was and that’s when it gets tricky, since we’re currently in 2015-2017. 

(crack theory under read more)

Considering the omake with Tsuneyoshi though, my theory is as follows:

image

Roma lost to Tsuneyoshi just before 1945 and was thrown into Cochlea back then, which would explain why…

image
image
image

…there are several hints that apparently a long time passed between the moment she was locked up and then freed by Aogiri.

Besides that, there are other little hints that make me think that Roma was locked up a (very?) long time ago actually:

image

Because “Gypsy” being a name from an old past would explain why we never heard about her special reputation before: ghouls in their 20s/30s probably don’t know about her, because Roma was locked up so long ago in Cochlea. 

Also…

image

Roma herself told us that she knew about when “the King of the Underground” was rampaging around, which is to say she knew or met

image

”the Nagaraj” that led to the creation of the predecessor organization to the CCG in 1890 (more details for the general timeline here). 

So, assuming that Tsuneyoshi is the one who threw her in jail when she was 51: 1944(~) – 51 => if Roma was born around 1890…

image

…it would fit with the timeline and her being around when the Washuus were trying to deal with the Nagaraj.


TL;DR At the age of 51, Roma was thrown in Cochlea by Tsuneyoshi who defeated her apparently around 1945, which means that…

image

the “Clowns’ annihilation” that the CCG led only 10+ years ago had no direct link to Roma who was already in jail.
In fact, Roma apparently was the founder of a gang that lasted several decades, which is why “even the Clowns [who were defeated by the CCG 10 years ago] didn’t know who their leader was”. 

Sorry for all the pictures, it’s supposed to be helpful. xD 

That’s my take on it but I’m still waiting for more hints about the Clowns’ gang and the part of the timeline that’s dedicated to them, since the more the story goes, the more hints we get that they are definitely older than they look (and thus they make everything more complicated). :3

Take with a big grain of salt though! And have a nice day. :))

EDIT: Additional relevant info here. :))

I’m still curious why touka doesn’t has her own arc like hinami tsukiyama or nishiki . Her development always be in other arcs but she has no her own arc

coromoor:

midnight-in-town:

Hello! But Anon, the story isn’t over yet, is it? 😉 Touka’s character development is not over anyway and there are a few aspects that need to be addressed where she’s concerned. It’s like saying that ch125 solved every issues between Kaneki and Touka, that just isn’t true: Touka, like Kaneki, still has to grow.

Please refer to the following posts to understand what I mean:

Have a nice day Anon!

I hope you don’t mind me barging in and adding my thoughts to this! Because like you, I too disagree with that idea. The arcs where Tsukiyama, Nishiki and Hinami had the bulk of their character development were never solely dedicated to their characters alone. And that’s not to detract from their importance at all because their respective focuses were all beautiful progression for them! But in this series with so many characters, they all end up sharing arcs and spotlight. We get small bread crumbs of development for various characters across multiple arcs until it’s their time to shine. For me it’s kind of become a staple of Ishida’s writing- his way of switching back and forth between dual perspectives to develop different characters all at once and build them up for a split-focus climax of an arc. 

Although the Mado/Fueguchi/Rabbit arc was set into motion by Hinami’s Mother’s death, that arc had just as much focus and importance for Touka as it did for Hina- it was not solely for Hinami’s character. What happened with Mado triggered into motion Touka’s path for the rest of the series, where we saw her slowly retreating from the vengeful Rabbit persona. 

Although I’d agree and say the Church scene mostly focused on Nishiki- we also got important insight into Kimi and Touka’s characters too. The same way in the Aogiri arc Kaneki and Touka shared the major character development. Touka got 2 entire backstory chapters with literally nothing else besides her perspective, which put both Ayato and herself in the spotlight. 

Karren’s character arc was a HUGE presence during the Tsukiyama family raid and the events leading up to it, even though fandom generally uses the umbrella term ‘Shuu’s arc’ to describe that era for ease. The Showdown between Eto and Kaneki, was also a major point where we cut away from Shuu to focus on Eto’s manipulation and Kaneki’s awakening. Shirazu and Hairu’s death in that arc were also just as important for putting the Quinx and Ui on their current paths. 

You see what I mean?

And like you pointed out Acchan, we’re still halfway through this arc too. Currently the plot in :re has a major focus on Touka and her relationships- namely with Kaneki and Yoriko. The whole pregnancy plot is mostly tied to themes surrounding Touka and most of it has been shown through the lens of her perspective. Although we stalled the main plot for… *coughs* chapter 125 *coughs* Touka and Kaneki’s relationship, once we picked back up, that has pushed forward the plot with Mutsuki and his relentless pursuance of them from :re down to the 24th Ward as the Squad Leader of the Oggai. The other side of the story with the CCG is being driven by the consequences of Touka and Yoriko’s relationship, with Yoriko’s incoming execution setting into motion development for a whole panel of other characters- it’s the whole reason Urie confronted Furuta in the first place. 

I guess this probably all could have been summed up in one sentence; she doesn’t have her own arc because no characters do :”D

@coromoor No apologies are needed :)) because your thoughts are literally what I should have detailed in the first place (and I actually kinda did in my tags lmao because tbh I am bit restless these days). 

Anyway, I agree and it’s something I have noticed lately: people complaining about Ishida’s decisions towards certain characters, about “their lack of continued development” or “bad writing” when from the beginning Ishida never gave a personal development arc to a character alone, because many of his characters will finish their development when the story is to end.

You gave many good examples (that I also addressed in my tags) and I could add Akira’s situation in ch120/121 as my own example, because I know for a fact that a lot of people were disappointed that she left “as if she didn’t learn anything from confronting Touka and Hinami” when she did
However, expecting Akira to be ready to do a 180° turn over in her characterization just because she acknowledged one flaw is senseless and everything that I am personally against in writing. 

No character development has to be settled from the moment a character realizes that they were wrong, especially not when Ishida writes his characters realistically: that means that a character development isn’t reduced to a character understanding a flaw and immediately striving to become “better” and so, in Akira’s example, her character development simply reached another level in ch120/121 but it’s a start, not an end or a stagnation.

Ishida has always associated his characters’ development to their dynamics with others and to the plot itself, it’s what I call a multidynamic, and that’s why I like TG (and Ishida’s writing) so much.
In the most recent chapter, people complained about Roma’s character being useless because Urie defeated her even though she brought answers to the plot through living and dying, people complained about Urie’s development making no sense when it’s not over yet and he just lost another comrade, which is a regular pattern in his characterization…

Reading TG means having to be patient because Ishida never settled anything on the first try, and the best example of that is Kaneki’s character himself. I’d love to think that after 26+ volumes people would have grown accustomed to Ishida’s style but apparently not.

TL;DR I agree. :)) 

How was Urie able to defeat Roma?? Ain’t she an SSS rated ghoul??

kingkishou:

Yes, but there’s more criteria involved in ratings than a ghoul’s strength alone. There’s also things like influence in the ghoul community to consider, hostility towards investigators, etc etc.  

For example, Big Madam was not a particularly strong ghoul, but was given an SS rating because of his influence. He ran a massive underground network composed of human trafficking and ghoul entertainment.

Roma was very strong, but was also extremely hostile and (although not publicly) the creator of the Clowns. That probably adds much to her rating.

All that aside, Urie is strong in his own right. Remember that he trains obsessively to break down muscle and open up more RC pathways– hence the extent of his framed-out kakuja and how he was able to form a shield for the first time. 

Keep in mind, too, that he survived getting his ass handed too him by Noro, Amon, and Donato. Roma wasn’t his first rodeo.

No offense, but seeing furuta get shot in the head felt vey satisfactory.

Hello and no offense Anon 🙂 I definitely enjoyed it as well and I’m definitely cheering on the person who did it (whether it is Matsuri or Marude or Akira or someone else), but I also enjoy his character overall so in the end it’s not like I’m being particularly harsh on him by saying that I liked the cliffhanger. xD

It’s like when Takeomi punched Mutsuki, I totally live for the villains to get a good punch (or bullet) in the face sometimes! xD

Have a nice day!

kingkishou:

hey hey there’s some koi fish on the blade collar of Furuta’s katana. 

Long life, strength, and prosperity.


EDIT: 

There’s a legend that a school of koi fish were swimming up the Yellow River and were met with a huge, powerful waterfall. Some of them were discouraged, but still many of them were determined to make it on top. The demons were laughing at their pointless efforts, making the waterfalls taller and taller…

until eventually one little koi put all his strength into it and leapt to the very top. The gods were proud, and rewarded him by transforming him into a *drumroll*

DRAGON!

And that’s how dragons are born: by breaking through the “Dragon’s Gate” with strength and perseverance .

It’s Probably Matsuri

linkspooky:

Marude has no previous connection to Urie, and thematically it makes little sense for Akira to be relevant at the moment. There is however, one last person relevant to this scene that was left out of the proceedings. 

The person who left behind the evidence that allowed Urie to sniff out Furuta, was Matsuri himself. Matsuri was also present at the Marude/Washuu scene which this scene is obviously paralleling, if not directly in the room at the time. This time Matsuri being the one to shoot the Washuu chairman in the head, rather than simply being the person to stumble in upon it afterwards makes an interesting parallel for a reversal of situations. 

Also, Matsuri is the only one who has decent reason to have been following Urie around in what was otherwise supposed to be a secret meeting kept under wraps between him and Kuroiwa. After the death of the Washuu, Matsuri’s attention and priorities focused only to Urie.

The use of a sniper bullet as well, rather than direct interference fits Matsuri’s style. It’s been shown that even when cornered in a fight he wasn’t really able to produce a kagune despite being a full blooded ghoul. It is even possible that the mainline Washuu do not have this trait. 

Matsuri has always been the type to only sit back entirely from the battlefield and watch. When he gets directly involved he loses himself in it. He’s a better strategist than a direct fighter, which fits with the position of a sniper. 

Also there is this, still unused piece of calendar art. One which depicts Matsuri and Urie as opposites facing off. With Urie as Dracula and Matsuri as Van Helsing. This parallel however is one yet to be truly fulfilled with Matsuri’s sudden dropping out of the plot. 

@tgcalendar2016 [x]

However if Matsuri were to reappear here in order to save Urie, it might make a few things about his character arc click into place. Number one is that Urie has always slowly been transforming himself into a full ghoul by pushing his own frame to the limit. It’s been a bit odd that Urie somehow shifted immediately back to normal after his frame out when Dr. Shiba warned him there was no going back from that point.

Unless of course, Urie was eating RC Cells prepared for him by Doctor Shiba the same way Sasaki is theorized to have been. This would explain Urie’s sudden unfathomable power increase to take down an SSS ranked Kakuja when he could barely handle himself against Donato last time around. 

The point is of course that if Urie was saved by Matsuri here, he wouldn’t really be as saved. It’s more of a case of out of the frying pan and into the friar. There’s a reason that Kuroiwa was killed, despite Urie’s sudden last minute revelation. 

It’s because Urie’s revelation was not enough. The mindset that he can hold everything on his shoulders is exactly what led to his last framing out. Saiko even said so directly that it was a quality shared between him and Sassan. The same central issue that has yet to be resolved. The only thing Urie has diagnosed is it’s cause, and thus he’s doomed to watch helplessly as another person dies in front of him again that he could not stop. 

Matsuri saving him really would only prolong that pain. An escaped Urie would no longer have contact with the CCG, and likely not even have the CCG’s RC cell formula to keep him fed. His only ally at that point then would be somebody he hated, and a full natural born ghoul. 

Urie’s arc has always been about him slowly becoming a ghoul, the thing he thought he hated and blamed. It makes sense for his consequence now to be to lose his position and safety net within the CCG and become a fully branded ghoul cast out and forced to survive on his own. 

TBH, as cool as it would be to see Akira shooting Furuta, my money’s on it being Marude. I think it just makes more sense, considering he’s killed Washuus before and could certainly do it again.

I agree Anon :)) Him or Matsuri, but the gun definitely suits him more, as well as the fact that Kuroiwa Iwao was his old pal. 

Have a nice day!


image

Hello! Sorry but I don’t believe anyone saved Marude, if you mean when he killed Yoshitoki? Because he was alone when he escaped Rushima:

image

Also I already gave my opinion about Amon here but I might be wrong. 🙂

Have a nice day Anon!

Crack theory about Noro

midnight-in-town:

I’m still in the process of rereading TG but after the newest chapter I’m wondering if Eto really is the one who kept Noro “alive” all these years, as we all thought for a long time. 

He was shown/said to eat a lot, always, and he’s from the 24th ward so many readers already suspected he could have a link to the previous OEG who took his kind underground + as a OEG himself it would make sense that he sheltered and protected Eto at her father’s demand. 

image

Also, now that we know that eating/cannibalizing a lot helps ghouls with slowing down aging, at least when it comes to the physical appearance like Roma who’s 51 but looks like a teenager… 

image

…maybe Noro used to eat a lot too because it was necessary to “keep young” and stay “alive” since as the previous OEG he would have been around 100 years old in the current timeline.

Him keeping a young appearance (at least) through eating a lot until he was killed could also explain why only a skull was left after his death. 

image

TL;DR maybe Aogiri was the one who had the “underground king” with them, which makes sense, since they wanted to build a society for ghouls. 
Noro was the previous OEG/OEK, ruler of the 24th and the one that was referred to as the “Naagaraj” and, like Roma, he kept a young appearance for years despite being 100 years through eating/cannibalizing a lot, until he went all out against the Qs and only a skull was left as he died. 

(Will edit if by rereading the series something is off with this theory. :))

Bringing this post back because, as she died, Roma’s face…

image

wrinkled, probably due to the fact that she was in reality over 50 years old.

So, since Noro when he died left only a skull, that means he was probably very old. Old enough to have known or been the previous OEK, ruler of the 24th ward, who lived a hundred years ago!