Hello, a few weeks ago you posted an omake of a younger Tsuneyoshi Washuu fighting Roma. He referred to her as a « special third degree » which a note below states was terminology used before 1945. So, this was at least 1944, and assuming TG takes places in our current decade then it’s been over 70 years. This is strange because Roma’s backstory said she was 51. This age was given after showing a picture of her as a child. So, could this be the age she was in the picture, and is now much older?

Hi Anon! Oh, I’ve seen a debate on that actually between @echo-from-the-void and @eto-when-and-where [x] and I meant to try and help, but I was so very busy last week that I thought I would leave the matter alone until I had enough time to try and solve whether this is a little plot hole or not. ;_;

Anyway, I gave it some thinking after receiving your ask, so here’s the thing: I don’t think there is any plot hole, it’s just that we all made the mistake to assume that…

…Roma was approximately 51 years at the time of ch135. So actually, I think the omake you’re talking about

(credit goes to @randomthoughtpatterns for the translation)…

is a hint to the very complicated timeline about the remaining Clowns that we still know almost nothing about.

Basically, I think Roma was 51 years old at the time she was thrown into Cochlea (that panel of ch135 indeed), but what’s left is for us to determine when exactly that was and that’s when it gets tricky, since we’re currently in 2015-2017.

(crack theory under read more)

Considering the omake with Tsuneyoshi though, my theory is as follows:

Roma lost to Tsuneyoshi just before 1945 and was thrown into Cochlea back then, which would explain why…

…there are several hints that apparently a long time passed between the moment she was locked up and then freed by Aogiri.

Besides that, there are other little hints that make me think that Roma was locked up a (very?) long time ago actually:

Because “Gypsy” being a name from an old past would explain why we never heard about her special reputation before: ghouls in their 20s/30s probably don’t know about her, because Roma was locked up so long ago in Cochlea.

Also…

Roma herself told us that she knew about when “the King of the Underground” was rampaging around, which is to say she knew or met…

…”the Nagaraj” that led to the creation of the predecessor organization to the CCG in 1890 (more details for the general timeline here).

So, assuming that Tsuneyoshi is the one who threw her in jail when she was 51: 1944(~) – 51 => if Roma was born around 1890…

…it would fit with the timeline and her being around when the Washuus were trying to deal with the Nagaraj.

TL;DR At the age of 51, Roma was thrown in Cochlea by Tsuneyoshi who defeated her apparently around 1945, which means that…

the “Clowns’ annihilation” that the CCG led only 10+ years ago had no direct link to Roma who was already in jail.
In fact, Roma apparently was the founder of a gang that lasted several decades, which is why “even the Clowns [who were defeated by the CCG 10 years ago] didn’t know who their leader was”.

Sorry for all the pictures, it’s supposed to be helpful. xD

That’s my take on it but I’m still waiting for more hints about the Clowns’ gang and the part of the timeline that’s dedicated to them, since the more the story goes, the more hints we get that they are definitely older than they look (and thus they make everything more complicated). :3

Take with a big grain of salt though! And have a nice day. :))

EDIT: Additional relevant info here. :))

Who/ What is Dragon????

T_T

This is just speculation from my part, but I think maybe Kanou grafted more kakuhou onto Shirazu’s body. He already was an Ukaku, so maybe he received Koukaku, Rinkaku and Bikaku kakuhou…

As for the name “Dragon” in itself…

…I’m wondering if maybe Kanou didn’t get his hands on Tatara’s body after Seidou killed him… And if so maybe one of the kakuhou he transplanted to Shirazu is Tatara’s, hence the name “Dragon”…

T_T

silverbulletsama:

Remember when Eto held the press conference to announce that she, Takatsuki Sen, is a ghoul? & we see a number of characters watching the broadcast on TV, each from their own location?

Do you remember the panel with Tatara?

This one?

It haunts me.

I don’t think Ishida-sensei ever draws something randomly. There are smaller details that we’ve come across before that were put in the chapters to imply something. This is not one of them; this is not a small detail. It is a huge, double panel, drawn precisely in this manner. It wasn’t meant for us to discard it, or argue about it having significance or not. It was clearly drawn because it is significant and it is trying to tell us something important.

And it haunts me.

In this panel, and the way it was positioned in the chapter, shows that Tatara is aware of the live broadcast of the press conference that Eto was holding. We know for a fact that the Aogiri members that Tatara was leading on Rushima were listening to that broadcast in their shared hideout. We saw it.

This panel seems to imply, to me at least, that Tatara purposely left the hideout upon hearing the broadcast, and did not want to listen to it.

One way or another, he knew what Eto was about to say. It is now clear [after the Cochlea arc] that everything Eto did was well studied and planned. It is even clear that Tatara (& Arima) were aware of it, and helped planning it.

It seems, again to me, that Tatara left the hideout, not because he knows what Eto is about to say, or because he did not want to listen to Eto. He left the hideout because what Eto was about to say was something he has trouble accepting.

Although he agreed on the plan Eto has devised – ending Aogiri to pave the way for the new OEK to rule, Eto letting herself be taken in by the CCG, etc.. – Tatara clearly was mourning.

He is seen gazing into the skies, probably in agony. He knew that this conference is but the beginning of the end, and that he cannot do anything to stop the events that will lead him to lose his subordinates, his life, the group he lived with through out those years… and the person he loved the most, Eto.

In a sense, this panel is but a rare event to show the feelings that Tatara held. He has always been a stoic, rather cruel character, devoid of emotions. We barely got any insight about his character, unless through the omakes. This shows that he has been struggling despite of his loyalty and acceptance of the plan that is to be unveiled… that he was cruelly killing his own feelings, for the sake of Eto’s schemes.

I am not sure if the issue of those stitches will ever be resolved. However, they look somehow symbolic of Tatara’s feelings being sealed. We assumed those are Eto’s doing because she was in control, because she did the same to Kanae. It only fits the metaphor more. The words that Tatara was denied expressing because of the threads sealing his mouth are a simile to the emotions and feelings that he had to brutally step on, in order to follow Eto’s plans. I am not hinting at Eto being evil and cruel to Tatara. I am saying that Tatara did this willingly, out of his own volition.

Perhaps, the cruelest part of this analysis is the ultimate revelation that Tatara may have had feelings for Eto. Him abandoning the hideout to gaze at the skies is also a way for him to stay on his feet, and not crumble down. The conference was but a consistent reminder that Eto is in captivity, and that the end is near…

The conference was but a grim reminder that..

He lost the person he loved, probably the only person he ever loved…

Forever.

Without having the chance to confess, or even … bid any farewell.

Forever.

I think it is rather cruel and unfortunate, yet masterful from Ishida-sensei that one panel .. one single panel… can have that much depth. It will haunt me, forever.

Do you think Tatara loved Eto? I was rereading the last arc again and it just felt that way when he died.

Hey Anon 🙂

Ah yes, it’s possible he was in love with her, I like to think it was the case personally. And about that scene you were talking about…

Obviously we can’t know for sure, but since Tatara said he didn’t get the two things he wanted/was looking for and at the same time he called out Eto’s name… Well, I interpreted it as one being either revenge for his brother or achieving his goal of changing the world through Aogiri tree and the other being Eto herself.

Eto was not only Aogiri’s leader, she is also the only natural OEG in the story (so far at least) and she wanted to change this world, so she probably inspired Tatara (hence why they were in charge of Aogiri together) and I just wouldn’t be surprised if he had come to love her after all these years of fighting together.

He seemed to be longing for her in my opinion, so it makes sense to me, even if Eto might not have felt the same way.

I hope that answers your question. Have a nice day Anon 🙂

cher-ro:

E… To…

Source: cher-ro

cher-ro:

Protect me from what I want

Source: cher-ro

iacediai:

Masked
Ayato | Tatara

Source: iacediai

cher-ro:

OMG. The stitches i can see.

what does it mean at all?

Source: cher-ro

The Destructive and Useless Nature of Revenge

littlemissymonster:

——- AKA the Tragedy of Seidou Takizawa ——-

If anyone doesn’t know the backround of what exactly the purpose of the Takizawa, Tatara, Houji Shenanigians was pre-chapter 89, or what I think the sad nature of how their fight turned out to be means, and how terribly sad I feel about Seidou and any positive outcome for it here I go…

Tatara’s Retribution Through Seidou

To make a long story short Takizawa’s old boss Houji was at one point transfered to China to help take care of a ghoul group called “Chi She Lian”. This group was headed by Tatara’s older brother Yan, and also contained Tatara and friend Fei. Houji’s group defeated Chi She Lian and having killed Yan and Fei Houji became the owner of quinques made from both of them.

These where the Quinque Houji gave Takizawa “Douhi” (Fei) and Houji’s dual quinque “Iltsu” (Yan). (I’m probably forgeting another but whatever).

So, Originally Tatara was seemingly supposed to catch Amon during the Anteiku raid due to Eto’s interest in him as a test subject, But Tatara seemed to see an opportunity in rounding up CCG investigators for Eto’s project, and made sure to capture Houji’s underling.

The revenge message was simple, “You steal my loved ones and comrades and use them against me? (Fei and Yan), I’ll take a person you care about and use them as a weapon against your kind” (Takizawa Houji’s underling). This act of revenge turned out we know now to be his undoing. The revenge for what the CCG has been doing for decades quinques.

The Worthless Fight

The fight between Houji and Tatara was short and accomplished nothing. Tatara grandstanded copying his brother kakuja and Houji waxing poetic about fire and hatred. It barely went anywhere and accomplished nothing, all do to one unforeseen person of collateral damage, and I think that was the point.

I think that’s the point. In the world of Tokyo Ghoul revenge has no purpose. Houji and Tatara represent one piece of the cycle of Ghoul/Human hatred. You stab me I stab you. The cycle continues. Having the revenge play out either way would not have any necessary forward movement to this story’s plot that haven’t happened in other arcs (such as the Mado/Every ghoul plot in TG whether Hinami want it or not their action led to the vengeance to continue to Akira). However because it failed on both side it illustrates another point.

1. The Cycle goes nowhere and only destroys people in it those around it. Takizawa originally had nothing to do with the fight between Tatara and Houji. He was just some kid who went into the CCG because his mother was afraid of ghouls and society gave him the idea he could help others and become a hero by doing so. He originally had next to nothing even to do with the people directly in the cycle of revenge, his downfall was literally only being the underling of the wrong person, and doing the right thing by listening to Akira when she rightfully thought Amon was in danger.

2. The Tatara/Houji Revenge shows the nature of what can go wrong with revenge. Tatara was blinded to everything but his revenge and probably didn’t even think about Takizawa as a person let alone how Takizawa’s feelings and emotions could effect everything and it destroyed him. Not to sound like Houji but the revenge spread like an Arsonist’s fire spreading and bringing the building down on everyone involved.

Everyone involved in the revenge plot was left in pain or dead and completely unsatisfied, illustrating how the revenge cycle accomplishes nothing but but spreading pain. The Point of the fight and Tatara and Houji’s deaths being pointless is that the revenge is pointless! All Houji’s men but Akira died, Takizawa’s madness made him act out a perversion of his original goal.

Tatara’s Flashback is also important because it make reference to the only solution to to the cycle of Ghoul/Human revenge. Did Arima find what he was looking for? Will the cycle ever be broken by the new OEK? Because that will be the only way people like Tatara will ever find peace.

What good could come out of this?

I can only think of one thing, Akira.

Recently Ishida released a posted a drawing of Akira releasing a handful of clover on his Twitter feed. Clover has always been a reference to Hinami. Hinami and Akira both hold places opposite one another in the cycle of revenge.

Perhaps Akira seeing how much revenge can, and learning the possible humanity of ghouls through Sasaki will let go of a need to avenge her father, perhaps through still caring about Takizawa to some extent, she’ll accept that her father’s evil deeds as such despite her love for him.

I’m not gonna lie was hoping Ishida would have done more with Tatara and Houji’s characters with all the mystery surrounding them, (maybe we will learn more?) But I also like what Ishida did, he made the revenge feel as empty and needlessly destructive for the reader as it was for those involved… That was meant as a compliment

harostar:

So once again, we see someone’s ambitions cut short. Tatara spent his life consumed with hatred, wanting revenge against Houji……and that very desire for revenge ended up destroying him without getting what he wanted.

He maimed Takizawa and gave him over to Kanou as revenge against Houji. And after years within Aogiri, gaining power and becoming stronger, and seemingly making himself important to the higher ups……Takizawa turns on him and takes his own revenge.

But in a way, Tatara did still end up getting revenge through his proxy. Takizawa’s twisted fantasy of becoming a hero was harshly ended by reality, and he lashed out when rejected. It seems he’s killed Houji in his rage, ending both sides of that rivalry with no one getting what they had hoped for. And isn’t that a crueler fate in the end, that Houji dies at the hands of his former subordinate? D:

And it really goes to show just how broken Takizawa is, mentally. That he seemed to honestly believe all he had to do was eventually turn on Tatara, and he would get a hero’s welcome back into the CCG. As though killing and eating comrades would just be forgotten or forgiven, and they would embrace him without hesitation. It’s pretty clear that no one else mattered to him, and he really just wanted to impress the two important people in his life. He wanted Houji to praise him, and Akira to see him as someone strong. Perhaps clinging to that thought kept him going, through everything that he endured in being shaped into Owl.

Instead, he got the harsh reality that his actions had consequences. That because of what he is and what he’s done, the people he cared about no longer see him as anything but a mad dog to be mercy killed. So he does the only thing he’s capable of doing at this point, which is lashing out and using his strength to hurt others. In spite of all his power, he’s still that insecure boy that desperately wants to be praised and cannot handle rejection or disappointment.