I love how people are joking that our!Ciel is The One Who Shall Not Be Named, when in reality
Claudia
is.
Because okay sure we know her name, unlike our!Ciel’s, but damn if we ever find out about anything else when it comes to her in the plot.
She’s looming behind the truth of a big part of the main plot, or at least that’s the impression Sensei is giving me (oh yeah I’ll bet you anything that she’s very significant), but no real mention yet about anything besides her name.
sensei when
our!Ciel we know everything about and we have followed but don’t know his name.
Claudia, we know her name but almost nothing else.
There are so many other characters that I want to know more about, like Francis, Undertaker, the Shinigami’s, Meyrin and Baldo. I want to know what makes them who they are!!!
Since Mey is Chinese, I’m guessing her arc will also be related to whatever Lau & Ran Mao’s arc we’ll be getting? Just guessing though.
As for the recurring Shinigamis, like Grell and the others, there is no guarantee but I’m guessing that when we learn about how the organization works exactly (and what’s up with those superiors), we might find out about some elements of their past.
Finally, for Frances, UT, Tanaka, Claudia and even Vincent I’m guessing this will be more or less addressed through the same discussions/answer moments and since this is main plot material, it can’t be helped that Sensei is taking her time.
I mean, we have Othello who made a comment that might be implying he met Claudia when she was a little girl 50 years ago + Othello knew UT as a Shinigami, so I think he’ll be doing the honors at some point during this arc, maybe giving Ciel a few answers, which will hopefully lead him to ask for more to anyone who might be aware of what UT did after his desertion.
These people, besides UT himself (in case he may not feel like talking, as we saw in ch141), are most likely Tanaka and Frances, that is at least what seems to be making the most sense (considering they also both knew Claudia) and anyway they are fishy too, at least as far as the current narrative goes.
=> Tanaka because he joined the Phantomhive family when Claudia was the Watchdog so he is bound to know quite a lot about her death and some circumstances behind Vincent’s death too…
So it’s not like Sensei can avoid to eventually answer all of this. TBH though, I just wish the pacing wasn’t so… slow.
I mean, I get building the plot and wanting to focus each volume around certain developments but :// well, this is killing me. 3 years on this arc and we still don’t know how the blood transfusions came to be, how real!Ciel is so perfectly undead and if UT is truly alone behind the sect. Amongst other things.
The hopes I have is that once we get past the chess game between the twins, we will find out about the Phantomhive family, Claudia and UT, but until we’re there, 20 pages/a month is haaaard because it’s making the wait so much longer.
I can’t blame Yana though: since Claudia was made to be so mysterious ever since volume 8, giving answers about her is very probably giving out big big hints towards the main plot and the target of Ciel’s revenge (to us and to Ciel himself), so she gotta build it up as much as she finds it necessary.
Hey Anon! And yep, from the moment a demon who shape-shifted into idk how many animals…
can have intercourse with humans
then Shinigamis who originally are humans should be able to as well. 🙂
As for the “but they’re dead” part, well yeah, but we don’t know exactly what their condition is (I’ll elaborate below) and furthermore, they have primary needs like sleeping and eating so why not other needs?
It’s kinda illustrated by Grell having the hots for several guys so far or even Ronald with most women actually, so to me it seems Shinigamis can feel attraction towards humans, which means they can surely be aroused and seek physical intimacy as a result.
Being able to have sex =/= being able to have kids: that’s a different debate.
Just in case you were asking with this in mind though, I want to precise that personally I think it’s possible for Shinigamis to have kids (so for example, I believe that the UT = Cedric theory is a possibility) because the Shinigamis aren’t exactly “dead”, the way final death is meant to be in Kuroshitsuji.
A human being is defined by two parts: their cinematic record and their soul. When they die, the CR is stopped by Shinigamis and to remain in the body, while the soul is collected. That’s what it means to be dead in Kuroshitsuji.
Now, if you look at UT’s bizarre dolls that are basically undead: they have no soul (because it was collected when they died and UT can’t make one from scratch), but they have edited cinematic records which is what makes the corpse mistakenly think it’s still alive.
As for Shinigamis, well that’s the thing: we know they killed themselves so they should be dead…
but it seems they still have their soul and an unstopped cinematic record (otherwise how could they still move, think and feel?), in spite of their peculiar eyes or their ability to teleport, amongst other supernatural things.
Furthermore…
…clearly they can actually die for real again if they’re hit by a death scythe (a death scythe being used to stop a CR and collect the soul, which is why I think they still have both).
Becoming a Shinigami is a punishment to humans who took their own life so maybe they’re not exactly “dead”. Maybe, similarly to how some humans can be “judged worthy to keep on living” by Shinigamis when they’re fated to die, Shinigamis are special cases of “(not really) dead people”.
All that to say, if they’re not exactly dead, then why wouldn’t they be able to have kids? Don’t get me wrong, we know they have superiors who are most likely scaring the shit out of them and as such, rules to follow were mentioned like…
…because Shinigamis are supposed to be “neutral between Gods and humans”, meaning they’re not supposed to be meddling with humans and have kids with them (or with other Shinigamis I suppose).
As far as UT is concerned though, clearly he fails at being a Shinigami, so him having kids (the UT = Cedric theory) would just be one more broken rule to add to his record. No biggie.
TL;DR yes, Shinigamis can most likely have sex with humans and with other Shinigamis.
And from the moment they’re scared to die if stabbed by a death scythe, they might not be exactly dead the way other humans who don’t kill themselves are dead, so they might be able to have kids with humans or other Shinigamis, even though it is very probably 100% forbidden (since they are forbidden from meddling with life, death and humans).
I hope it answers your question Anon, sorry for the length! As with everything, it’s just my opinion, no one has to agree!
Have a nice day. :))
Hi Anon! Ah, I should have bet that I’d receive this question. xD
Moving on, honestly I don’t know and since Sensei said that she wouldn’t delve into Kuroverse’s demonology
indeed, I’m not sure we have anything to discuss this possibility. ://
The thing is, it’s easier to consider the idea between humans and Shinigamis because Shinigamis are initially humans + because there is the matter of the Phantomhive lineage…
And, without rambling about where it might come from (in my opinion it’s unrelated to whoever Cedric K. Ros is), it has to come from something (a curse?) or someone (an ancestor?) supernatural at the very least.
So the boundaries between humans and the supernatural side of Kuroverse are seemingly thin, but at least Shinigamis and humans are technically the same species, which makes it more legit if Sensei confirms that they can make kids.
When it comes to demons, it seems less likely, because demons can only take on a human appearance + it’s not like they hold humans in a very high regard. I mean, Sensei said before that Seb basically sees humans as insects (or food in Ciel’s case), so to seduce his preys (like Beast for example) to get what he wants (like information) is different from actually being able to reproduce.
Of course maybe not all demons are like him (about seeing humans as inferior), but since it’s likely we’ll never find out… The only way to be sure would be for Sensei to eventually mention it randomly. You know, like with curses…
…or even once Sensei explains what the Phantomhive lineage is all about later.
So, I’m sorry Anon, but I have no clue. Maybe, maybe not. As long as Sensei doesn’t hint at anything though, you’re free to consider what you want, just like for the debate about whether or not Shinigamis can have kids with humans!
Thanks for reading and have a nice day! :))
Hey Anon and nope! At least not in my opinion because, even if it turns out that Shinigamis and humans can make babies, that doesn’t confirm anything as far as Claudia and UT are concerned.
We know that UT apparently cared about Claudia and there is a good probability that there was actually a romantic side to it from his point of view, but we don’t know for sure + we can’t say anything about Claudia’s own feelings.
That’s why we need to know the Undertaker’s real name. Cedric K. Ros– was indicated
(in the Shinigami files)
to be Vincent’s father and Sensei confirmed before that he and Frances had the same parents, so what we need to know is if he and UT are the same person.
If Sensei ever says that UT is Cedric before saying anything about possible human + shinigami babies tho’, then it will confirm both ideas at the same time!
I hope this makes sense. Have a nice day Anon. :))
Hey Anon! And yep, from the moment a demon who shape-shifted into idk how many animals…
can have intercourse with humans
then Shinigamis who originally are humans should be able to as well. 🙂
As for the “but they’re dead” part, well yeah, but we don’t know exactly what their condition is (I’ll elaborate below) and furthermore, they have primary needs like sleeping and eating so why not other needs?
It’s kinda illustrated by Grell having the hots for several guys so far or even Ronald with most women actually, so to me it seems Shinigamis can feel attraction towards humans, which means they can surely be aroused and seek physical intimacy as a result.
Being able to have sex =/= being able to have kids: that’s a different debate.
Just in case you were asking with this in mind though, I want to precise that personally I think it’s possible for Shinigamis to have kids (so for example, I believe that the UT = Cedric theory is a possibility) because the Shinigamis aren’t exactly “dead”, the way final death is meant to be in Kuroshitsuji.
A human being is defined by two parts: their cinematic record and their soul. When they die, the CR is stopped by Shinigamis and to remain in the body, while the soul is collected. That’s what it means to be dead in Kuroshitsuji.
Now, if you look at UT’s bizarre dolls that are basically undead: they have no soul (because it was collected when they died and UT can’t make one from scratch), but they have edited cinematic records which is what makes the corpse mistakenly think it’s still alive.
As for Shinigamis, well that’s the thing: we know they killed themselves so they should be dead…
but it seems they still have their soul and an unstopped cinematic record (otherwise how could they still move, think and feel?), in spite of their peculiar eyes or their ability to teleport, amongst other supernatural things.
Furthermore…
…clearly they can actually die for real again if they’re hit by a death scythe (a death scythe being used to stop a CR and collect the soul, which is why I think they still have both).
Becoming a Shinigami is a punishment to humans who took their own life so maybe they’re not exactly “dead”. Maybe, similarly to how some humans can be “judged worthy to keep on living” by Shinigamis when they’re fated to die, Shinigamis are special cases of “(not really) dead people”.
All that to say, if they’re not exactly dead, then why wouldn’t they be able to have kids? Don’t get me wrong, we know they have superiors who are most likely scaring the shit out of them and as such, rules to follow were mentioned like…
…because Shinigamis are supposed to be “neutral between Gods and humans”, meaning they’re not supposed to be meddling with humans and have kids with them (or with other Shinigamis I suppose).
As far as UT is concerned though, clearly he fails at being a Shinigami, so him having kids (the UT = Cedric theory) would just be one more broken rule to add to his record. No biggie.
TL;DR yes, Shinigamis can most likely have sex with humans and with other Shinigamis.
And from the moment they’re scared to die if stabbed by a death scythe, they might not be exactly dead the way other humans who don’t kill themselves are dead, so they might be able to have kids with humans or other Shinigamis, even though it is very probably 100% forbidden (since they are forbidden from meddling with life, death and humans).
I hope it answers your question Anon, sorry for the length! As with everything, it’s just my opinion, no one has to agree!
Have a nice day. :))
An excellent question Anon. 🙂 But I think the answer is as simple as “because his scars aren’t the result of a death scythe”, so he’s still… well, not dead. xD
Since Shinigamis aren’t exactly humans anymore (their eyes that can see what human eyes can’t, the fact they can teleport, etc), it’s likely that they can die again for real only if they’re stabbed with a death scythe. As such, normal blades or guns shouldn’t work on them.
So in the case of UT’s scars, since Sensei confirmed that he apparently got them after his desertion, it most likely has nothing to do with a death scythe (otherwise you’re right, he would have died from his head not being on his shoulder anymore).
The ??? part about UT’s scars is that they’re literally everywhere on his body so it’s hard to be sure of how he could have gotten them. Hence the many theories:
he was tortured by humans after his desertion (somehow), who freaked out when they realized he wouldn’t die and that’s how he ended up with so many scars
it’s a symbolic representation of his link to the Phantomhive family (since they’re mostly represented by roses and thorns) and we’re not supposed to bother about how he got them
it’s a way for Sensei to introduce an equivalent to the “Thorns of death” from the second musical in the manga. To quote from the wiki: “The Thorns are contracted when a soul destined to die becomes vengeful and fight against the Grim Reapers that would reap it; it would manifest into the form of thorns, which will eventually suffocate the heart.”
Can’t say I have any clue to be honest Anon, except that I really doubt UT’s scars are the result of a death scythe, even if I could be totally wrong. :))
In my personal idea of a timeline about UT though, I tend to think it’s more likely to have happened around or after the time of Claudia’s death (for several reasons but it would be too long to explain now). I also think it’s fair to imagine that one day we’ll find out about how he got them and it will be… bloody to say the least. ://
I hope it answers your question! Thanks for reading and have a nice day :))
Hey Anon! And yep, from the moment a demon who shape-shifted into idk how many animals…
can have intercourse with humans
then Shinigamis who originally are humans should be able to as well. 🙂
As for the “but they’re dead” part, well yeah, but we don’t know exactly what their condition is (I’ll elaborate below) and furthermore, they have primary needs like sleeping and eating so why not other needs?
It’s kinda illustrated by Grell having the hots for several guys so far or even Ronald with most women actually, so to me it seems Shinigamis can feel attraction towards humans, which means they can surely be aroused and seek physical intimacy as a result.
Being able to have sex =/= being able to have kids: that’s a different debate.
Just in case you were asking with this in mind though, I want to precise that personally I think it’s possible for Shinigamis to have kids (so for example, I believe that the UT = Cedric theory is a possibility) because the Shinigamis aren’t exactly “dead”, the way final death is meant to be in Kuroshitsuji.
A human being is defined by two parts: their cinematic record and their soul. When they die, the CR is stopped by Shinigamis and to remain in the body, while the soul is collected. That’s what it means to be dead in Kuroshitsuji.
Now, if you look at UT’s bizarre dolls that are basically undead: they have no soul (because it was collected when they died and UT can’t make one from scratch), but they have edited cinematic records which is what makes the corpse mistakenly think it’s still alive.
As for Shinigamis, well that’s the thing: we know they killed themselves so they should be dead…
but it seems they still have their soul and an unstopped cinematic record (otherwise how could they still move, think and feel?), in spite of their peculiar eyes or their ability to teleport, amongst other supernatural things.
Furthermore…
…clearly they can actually die for real again if they’re hit by a death scythe (a death scythe being used to stop a CR and collect the soul, which is why I think they still have both).
Becoming a Shinigami is a punishment to humans who took their own life so maybe they’re not exactly “dead”. Maybe, similarly to how some humans can be “judged worthy to keep on living” by Shinigamis when they’re fated to die, Shinigamis are special cases of “(not really) dead people”.
All that to say, if they’re not exactly dead, then why wouldn’t they be able to have kids? Don’t get me wrong, we know they have superiors who are most likely scaring the shit out of them and as such, rules to follow were mentioned like…
…because Shinigamis are supposed to be “neutral between Gods and humans”, meaning they’re not supposed to be meddling with humans and have kids with them (or with other Shinigamis I suppose).
As far as UT is concerned though, clearly he fails at being a Shinigami, so him having kids (the UT = Cedric theory) would just be one more broken rule to add to his record. No biggie.
TL;DR yes, Shinigamis can most likely have sex with humans and with other Shinigamis.
And from the moment they’re scared to die if stabbed by a death scythe, they might not be exactly dead the way other humans who don’t kill themselves are dead, so they might be able to have kids with humans or other Shinigamis, even though it is very probably 100% forbidden (since they are forbidden from meddling with life, death and humans).
I hope it answers your question Anon, sorry for the length! As with everything, it’s just my opinion, no one has to agree!
I think reapers must have souls, since they do this work in an effort to earn salvation for their souls. What would be the point of this punishment until they attain redemption if they no longer have souls to redeem?
I suppose it’s possible, but maybe demons have no interest in the souls of reapers? Might not be appetizing….
If I may…? I would say it’s almost certain that reapers have souls and demons (generally) find them unappetizing:
Due to this scene in the circus arc (volume VI). While it might be assumed he was speaking about the “large number of souls” previously mentioned, I believe this was an insult aimed at William.
In any case I think it implies that Sebastian finds reaper souls distasteful
I know it’s common to assume Undertaker might be “disposed of” by Dispatch if they get the chance to take him down, but I think that his greatest, or rather, his only risk of being killed comes from Sebastian, and if he’s caught by Dispatch then the odds of his being killed go down phenomenally.
The entire point of Dispatch is that they aren’t allowed to die; this, I imagine, applies no matter the sins the commit while in reaper form. Grelle was not killed, after all. Undertaker’s crimes are of a far greater magnitude and very different nature, but I still doubt that Dispatch would kill him.
If Dispatch has a possible capital punishment, then wouldn’t there be a high number of individuals willing to commit the crimes required to receive said punishment? Dispatch is an organisation built on the cooperation of desperate people, and it would be sheer folly to create that kind of escape loophole in their system. Somebody, multiple somebodies, would take advantage of it, which is directly counter to Dispatch’s interests.
And, if he isn’t allowed to die, then it’s highly probable Dispatch is more likely to save his life, if worst comes to worst.
The death scythe can slice right through dimensions
I was looking through ch10 to answer someone and I stumbled upon this, which I had completely forgotten. So actually, I’d love to know more about that in the plot since it was addressed only once????? Because I bet it could
maybe
answer some of our questions…
Is that why Shinigamis have this odd relation to time and belongings from our time era when the timeline covers the 19th century? Or why they can teleport?
Sensei, answers soon please~~!
BTW, I guess that could explain this?
Which is to say, why UT can make his scythe appear rather randomly whenever he needs it, if death scythes aren’t even bound by dimensions.
Well, until now I always considered that Ciel noticing the Shinigamis precisely as he did in ch103 and when it never happened previously was possibly the result of:
Seb trying to eat him a few hours before (no matter if it was “just” intended as a wakeup call or not, Seb did attack him)
Wolfram almost killing him
and then being almost blasted to bits by the panzer
In other words, I used to think that maybe the fact he experienced so much trauma (both psychological and physical) in the span of a few hours activated this special part of his Phantomhive lineage somehow (with Seb’s supernatural attack being the biggest trigger).
However, now I wonder if the answer to him noticing the Shinigamis for the first time couldn’t also be linked to…
…the fact that he lost his sight for a little while when he suffered from PTSD during the arc.
I mean, this part was never really explained besides possibly being a side effect of either the miasma or the PTSD itself (more the PTSD than the miasma though, since he could see again from the moment he recovered his mind), so I wonder if this acute blindness couldn’t also be the trigger to his lineage “activating”, which then led to him noticing the Shinigamis in ch103…
Maybe it’s a mix of both the PTSD (losing his sight for a while) and all that he experienced in a few hours upon solving this case (especially Seb “jokingly” trying to eat him)… Thoughts??
@hannibalcatharsis it seems there is a slight misunderstanding, please allow me to explain again! :3
There is absolutely no doubt that what allowed Ciel to notice the shinigamis is his Phantomhive lineage, so no worries. I was just wondering about what the trigger that activated his lineage was, since what happened in ch103 was a first.
When you look at this scene, you can see that Ciel’s reaction is divided in two. First he sensed something, most likely the Shinigamis’ presence (precisely when Sascha mentioned his family)…
…and then he turned around in their direction to immediately spot them, to everyone’s surprise.
It is unknown whether Sascha and Ludgar had chosen to be visible to human eyes or not in ch103, but either way, no matter if the two Shinigamis were visible or invisible, the fact remains that Ciel sensed and then saw where they were exactly.
So I don’t know if the lineage is a sixth sense thing (knowing that something possibly similar happened with Lizzie on the Campania, without mentioning Vincent having an odd moment or two), or an ability to see supernatural stuff, or both, but Ciel definitely noticed the Shinigamis because of his lineage. 🙂 The question now remains as to why this happened in ch103 exactly and never previously in the story, which is what I was trying to find answers to, in my post above:
Is it Seb attacking Ciel with his demonic form, for the wakeup call?
A supernatural attack (especially since it never happened before) could have triggered the activation of a supernatural ability of his lineage for all we know.
Is it related to the PTSD during which he lost his sight, or to Wolfram and the panzer almost killing him?
Because it could also be that the supernatural side of his lineage was triggered since he went through a lot in such a short period of time, as some sort of defense mechanism for example.
However, there has to be some sort of activation to this lineage, otherwise we wouldn’t have seen such a big reaction out of Ciel for the first time in ch103. 🙂
I hope it helps, sorry again for creating confusion :33
midnight-in-town 