keeping it all secret and hidden from being too obvious, but also while keeping it neat and tidy and not making theories go in every direction. The problem which Yana has is that she seems to not have the experience to actually write these parts properly, so there is not the right level of logic most of the time with this topic, and it’s most of the time kind of a mess because it feels like she writes parts and forgets that they’re not logically correlating to the previous information given. 2/4
And this goes to several of the theories revolving around Ciel’s memories. Because you can basically categorise them into different support groups for the theories, which is actually not a good thing. Her own writing is very divided, and it should actually be that all the clues go in “one” direction but you still have the possibility to use them for different theories. Like in one book I read there was a character who was constantly following the MC, the popular theories were: The follower 3/4
was a time traveler. Able to teleport. Or a part of the MC’s psyche. All of the hints and clues were very logical for the world and kept consistent, and made sense, still people were able to make different theories. This is what Yana should do, instead she seems to be going kinda everywhere with her writing, and weirdly has a lack of consistency around that specific part. I wouldn’t have much of a problem with this normally, but at the same time, if one doesn’t know how to do it, avoid it. 4/4
Hey Anon 🙂 Well, I did say I didn’t really want to talk about this, seeing as I spent an entire evening debating about it with people lol, but… well, it’s not like you don’t make good points and besides you took the time to write all this, so…
(serious and long talk ahead about Kuroshitsuji in general for anyone who is reading this)
Thanks for your thoughts, especially since it’s basically what I’m very roughly saying here. 🙂
Just like you, I’ve always been an avid reader so I’ve also seen my share of bad and good stories, but I have to admit that the Kuro fandom is the only fandom I’m in which sometimes has many and completely opposite theories for the same subject, all sides supposedly having plausible hints to support them (not that I mind), and personally I always attributed that to Yana’s possible slight inexperience and rather odd start of Kuroshitsuji.
What I mean is, in the first place Yana and her editor weren’t sure Kuroshitsuji would work which is why they tested the readers with a few chapters before the real stuff actually started with the Jack the Ripper arc (which is why the chapters before the Jack the Ripper arc are just completely different from the rest of the manga).
So Yana basically had to build her entire plot with Mr. K when they received an okay for a long serialization and I believe that’s why Mr. K once said that if they could rewrite the first volumes, there would be things to change in order to remove very minor contradictions.
Anyway, not that it’s important (do correct me if I was wrong though), and while I won’t address the content of the 2CT here, I do have other things to criticize about Yana’s writing which are completely linked to what you were saying yourself; and it’s definitely true that the main reason I’m not fond of the 2CT has the same explanation as the rest of those things I tend to criticize Kuroshitsuji
about.
For example, the development of secondary characters: if maybe you follow me, you might have noticed that sometimes I can be very annoying with that, since it’s one of the things that I believe Kuroshitsuji really lacks to be an even better series.
Because Kuroshitsuji has two great things making it a good read:
- its plot : a young boy selling his soul to the devil to get revenge, nothing to say on this (especially when there is a mystery around why his family was killed in the first place, not just on who did it)
- and its characters : because they’re all different, they have flaws, they’re used for both serious situations and comic relief and we can’t help but love how easy it is to get really attached to them.
So it’s really too bad, even if I absolutely love them, that Seb and Ciel took over 90% of the focus in the story so far (especially when the only real inner conflict they ever had started in the last arc).
I’m aware it’s because of how Yana writes and “arranges” the different arcs of the story that it feels that way, and I am happy that she apparently started doing differently in the last arc (since Sieglinde & Wolfram got more development in record time than the servants, besides Finny, who were there at the beginning) but still, at this point I am sometimes tired of having to fear about maybe getting plot convenience as an explanation for secondary characters.
Still not mentioning the 2CT but taking the example of Lizzie’s parents in the current arc: the possibility remains (since the arc was constructed a certain way) that Frances and Alexis were never mentioned since Lizzie’s departure because, for obvious reasons (mainly since they would probably settle this more quickly) Ciel needs to be the one rescuing her, which is basically nothing more than plot convenience (especially since thinking up a simple reason like Alexis and Frances being overseas for something the Queen asked would have been more okay than complete silence on the question).
Of course that’s just me being tired of that issue in particular, since for all we know they might get a role at some point in the arc, but the thing is, I don’t have to be worried about possible plot convenience with all the other series I love as much as Kuro.
And that’s the same problem I’m running into with the 2CT
(more on that in all the discussions of yesterday, just check my 2CT tag), which is why I have trouble with it, especially when there are other theories, admittedly maybe not answering as many things as the 2CT but that I find to be arranged better and, most importantly of all, playing less the plot convenience card in general, on top of the fact it’s been 24+ volumes.
You mentioned logic and, unless we’re talking about series that initially start mainly as comic relief with literally no boundaries be it for the plot or the characters (Gintama, Katekyo Hitman Reborn…), that’s personally what I’m looking for in answers and explanation for series like Kuroshitsuji.
This is completely a personal opinion obviously, because I know readers who like the 2CT disagree that it’s not the most logical theory (and I completely respect their opinion), but still, as I could see yesterday even some of them will call some aspects of the explanation “vague”.
And maybe it’s because we’re still missing some parts of the big picture that it feels like that (I can’t deny that and I really hope that’s the reason) but so far that’s really why I don’t like it as an explanation.
So I agree with you Anon, maybe I feel like that about the 2CT because, by trying to give the readers hints about the 2CT ever since the circus arc, Yana might have lacked consistency between the hints, the other subplots and the developments of her characters throughout the rest of the story.
And it’s probable that she can still salvage it if the 2CT becomes canon, by reducing the possibility of plot holes as much as she can (because I might not like the twin thing but I won’t be bitchy as long as the plot and the character developments won’t be halted or quality-reduced) and I really hope she will succeed in doing so.
Finally, on top of all this, Kuroshitsuji’s pace is slow and not just because the serialization is monthly, so now that we’ve been through 24+ volumes of a story that I love a lot, I just wish for a slow settlement of the story and I don’t want to keep on fearing about plot convenience as explanations, like I do for the following subjects:
- Will Tanaka and Frances ever have a role in the plot, since the plot is based around why Vincent got killed?
- Will we get a detailed flashback about UT? (because I don’t fear not getting answers, I know we will, but a real flashback to explain his character? honestly I don’t know)
- Will we delve a little more into Vincent’s character since his death is basically the reason Kuroshitsuji happened?
- Will we ever have a Lau and Ran Mao arc? Or even just answers?
- Will Ciel ever questions his past actions and choices (like the contract)?
- Will Rachel ever get some panels in the story (she’s the one who appeared the less out of the entire cast, even Randall and Cole got more screentime, how crazy is that when she’s Ciel’s mom???)
- Will William ever have any big role amongst all the Shinigamis as it was foreshadowed until he basically disappeared from the story?
(@into–the–abyss, this one is for you)
- What about what Will mentioned in ch35 about Shinigamis sometimes judging people worthy of another chance at living?
(@dorkshadows this one is for you)
So as you can see my issue with the 2CT isn’t just 2CT-centered, I hope you get what I wanted to say with this huge block of text, it’s part of an ensemble linked to how Yana wrote her story so far, and for now I’m dealing rather well with it because it doesn’t feel like we’re going to get answers any time soon on the subjects I listed above, except on the matter of the 2CT obviously, which is why I am worried about it lately.
To give you one last example, we’re not there yet which is why I barely ever speak about it, but if Frances and Tanaka don’t get one hell of a more active role towards the whole mystery behind Vincent’s death and Ciel’s revenge (seeing as Frances is Vincent’s sister + Claudia’s daughter + Lizzie’s mom + Ciel’s aunt and the only other real Phantomhive alive left, + Sebastian’s number 1 annoying human, and since Tanaka was the butler of Vincent and probably Claudia + that he’s definitely watching over Ciel), I will probably break my shit ten times harder than I currently do with the 2CT.
Same for Lau and Ran Mao, same for Will and for all the other subjects I listed above (knowing I probably forgot some).
…I basically spent 3 hours writing all of this down instead of working, so I hope I managed to convey my thoughts somewhat in an okay fashion. Sorry for all the ramble, but basically I wanted to say that I think your thoughts are spot on Anon.
Yep, all of this just for “I agree” haha ^_^ but hey, that’s just how it is, I don’t think I’ll ever be able to shut up when it comes to series I really enjoy (I never was able to shut up about them even back when I was 12 so…).
I know I can be pretty annoying with the 2CT or with my criticisms, so I apologize to anyone reading me, but trust me when I say that all I want is for Kuroshitsuji to remain the enjoyable story it managed to really be for over 24 volumes, and once again, I might not like the hidden twin trope, but if that’s all I dislike of Yana’s explanation about Ciel’s character, then I’ll just shut up forever about the 2CT.
Also, I hope no one reading this doubts that I have the utmost respect for Yana-sensei and her work. I just don’t want any plot holes, because that’s what destroys a good story.
Thank you for passing by and for your message Anon, I’m just sorry I rambled that much.
Please have a nice weekend 🙂