Is Real!Ciel Trying to Recreate the Past?

cielsama14:

Disclaimer: Before reading this post, make sure to read my RCMT masterpost and the mirror dynamic post linked in it first or this is not going to make any sense. XD

Alright, this is going to be seriously messed up. You have been warned. 

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So, the latest chapter has me wondering if there is meant to be a significant connection between Real!Ciel and Our!Ciel’s chess game in the present and Real!Ciel and Vincent’s possible chess game in the past. 

Afficher davantage

Recap post: the “real!Ciel mastermind theory”

As proposed on Friday, here’s a recap post about my take on it, for the few who wanted it and in hope that it might help some others with the few misunderstandings I’ve seen going around. Let me know if anything is not clear!

First thing first, despite the name of the theory, real!Ciel isn’t exactly the mastermind or the real target of Ciel’s revenge for me, if just because he and our!Ciel wouldn’t have ended up with child traffickers and sold to the cult if there wasn’t another party involved (and wanting for them to suffer). 

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So someone else definitely manipulated real!Ciel and his possible wishes, in order to get to the Phantomhive household. They sent someone, very probably a supernatural being considering how they appeared right behind our!Ciel, to kill almost everyone before making sure the boys would know Hell.

For simplicity’s sake and this post, we’ll assume the true mastermind is Queen Victoria (+ John Brown) and if there is a need for more explanations, please check these posts [x][x].

Moving on, in my take of the RCMT, there were only two attackers on December 14th: 

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and while #1 is the supernatural being (Brown?), #2 is real!Ciel (see below). 

However, I know, why would a ten year old child ever wish doom on his own family? 

Well, first of all, things very probably didn’t go according to real!Ciel’s plan, way before the boys were even given to child traffickers: I’m of the opinion that initially all that real!Ciel ever wanted was for his father to die.
And why? Because with Vincent dead, he was the next head of the Phantomhive family and as such…

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…he might have a say into his little brother’s project to go to London and become a toymaker, leaving him behind. 

But things escalated from the twin’s initial plan, very probably because of the real mastermind who used real!Ciel’s little wish to get his father out of the way to almost entirely annihilate the Phantomhive household, before getting rid of the twins in a much crueler way

(possibly because real!Ciel was an accomplice). 

So overall was it a horrible, irrational and childish idea coming from real!Ciel? Well, yeah, but he was ten years old and, mostly…

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he apparently had (& still has as a bizarre doll) a rather pathological attachment to his little brother

(bordering on obsession really) and that could be enough of a reason for him to truly fear the future separation. 

He might have even seen his parents as being unsupportive of him and his issue on the topic, because they clearly seemed to be okay with our!Ciel’s choice in ch133. Thus getting rid of at least Vincent to replace him and have his say on the matter was a minimal price to pay for not being separated from our!Ciel.  

I disagree with fans labelling real!Ciel a psychopath in the past (it’s possibly different now because of UT), however I do think something was wrong with him if his little brother was the only one who mattered above everyone else to him. And, again, I really think that’s the case because…

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(”together” as “just the two of us”)

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…Lizzie, the Midfords, Ann (before she died)? Well, he didn’t/still doesn’t seem to consider them at all. :// Our!Ciel does though…

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and that’s from where I draw a comparison between what’s normal and what seems to be less so, because it’s as if Sensei wanted to insist that they’re very different on this point. 

So, looking at ch133/134, what happened?

First of all, it’s very important to realize that there is a one and half year time skip between real!Ciel breaking down about our!Ciel leaving him behind (with Vincent and Rachel not taking his side) and December 14th, 1885. 

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And it’s important because that means that Sensei purposely hid what the twin did or even how he acted between the incident and the actual massacre, after focusing for two chapters on real!Ciel being bothered by his brother leaving him. 

So “he was a sweet kid, loved his parents and he would have never done that”? Well no one can know that for sure, since it’s not like we really saw anything about him between “I have no choice but to become Earl Phantomhive” and the attack on the manor. Besides, it’s kind of very Sensei-like to do foreshadowing this way, just saying.

Moving on, I’m not going to expand on how/when/why real!Ciel could have ended up as an accomplice of the attack of December 14th because we have no clue of that yet (that’s all in that one and a half year missing from the flashback), however I think everyone pro or against RCMT realized by now that the outsider who killed almost everyone received help from inside the house.

That helper is real!Ciel for me: he’s the one who muzzled Seb the dog and locked him in, so that he wouldn’t warn anyone/attack the intruder, but also maybe so that he wouldn’t be killed.

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As I said above, I doubt that real!Ciel considered that anyone besides his dad had to die for him to get what he wanted and both the dog and servants could still be useful to him as the next Earl

anyway

(in order to keep the exact same household, except for Vincent himself). 

As for Rachel, well, from the way she and Vincent died, embracing each other…

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…I think she tried to shield Vincent and was killed first. ;_; 

However,

had his initial plan gone perfectly, I’m not sure either that real!Ciel thought it necessary for his mother to die (just like the dog and servants). 
Either because he imagined that, once he’d be Earl, a woman would have no way to stop his decisions (I mean, look at what he said to Lizzie, I know he was a kid but ://), or because he thought she could understand after what she said about her and Ann in ch133.

There again, real!Ciel’s plan definitely didn’t go as expected, since the real target of our!Ciel’s revenge ordered her assassin to annihilate the whole household instead (the twins awaiting another horrible fate), which…

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is

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what 

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took 

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place. Well, almost because someone survived.

Before I get to this part though, I have to say: I don’t think real!Ciel is the one who killed his parents. He wanted his father dead, yes, but he’s not the one who stabbed them, or Seb the dog, or even most of the household. 

Just look at ch134, all the dead people our!Ciel came across had a lot of blood pooling around the bodies, a lot of blood on the walls or furnitures around too, which in my opinion signs the work of a real skilled killer (that supernatural being, attacker #1). 

So I doubt the twin would have been able of that, not at ten years old, not when he didn’t have blood on his clothes and not when he seemed to suck at fencing. What he did do however is at least muzzle and lock the dog, take the Phantomhive ring from his father’s hand (the ring that proved he could inherit the position after his father)…

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and possibly stab Tanaka at least once (making him attacker #2). 

The reason I think the twin is the one who stabbed Tanaka is the opposite as to why I think a real pro took down everyone else: Tanaka was stabbed twice 

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meaning that the first time wasn’t enough to kill him, so:

  • either he held his own against a supernatural being because he was strong enough 
  • or real!Ciel is the one who wasn’t skilled enough to kill him on the first try. 

Also, the second time Tanaka was stabbed was precisely as he attempted to warn our!Ciel of something about real!Ciel…

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And if real!Ciel was in on the plan about December 14th, frankly I doubt he’d want his little brother to know that he was an accomplice in the massacre that took place. 

The last chapter even implied that servants aren’t exactly people real!Ciel tends to care about anyway…

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…so who knows if even Tanaka wouldn’t become disposable from the moment he caught on about real!Ciel being an accomplice? ://

So basically, real!Ciel is the one who stabbed Tanaka in the back, just as Tanaka tried to warn our!Ciel, but then the supernatural attacker showed up and took our!Ciel away before he could see who was the one with the knife. 

I know Tanaka is still considered as a suspect by some fans, but honestly I just can’t see how or why. And when it comes to how Tanaka managed to survive his wounds and the fire that destroyed the whole manor, since that’s one point making him suspicious, I discussed it a little here for those interested.

Additional hints & details for the RCMT

To tie with the more recent chapters, since UT brought back the twin, but not mandatory when it comes to understanding the theory, so under read more: 

the twin’s behavior towards our!Ciel

I think it’s a hint by itself, because he still seems very obsessed with the idea to finally “be able to be together forever”. 

Real!Ciel being a bizarre doll though, that means UT brought him back through editing his cinematic record with “episodes” (i.e ”yearning for the future”).

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In other words, if before he died real!Ciel was strongly envisioning his future as “being together forever” with his little brother (as the flashback showed well enough), it could explain why he’s still super obsessed with the idea, because that’s literally what keeps him going as UT’s current masterpiece. 

A real obsession can be dangerous: look at Ann and the JTR arc, or look at UT who can’t mourn the dead Phantomhives and instead tries to bring them back through lots of horrible and bloody experiments. So in real!Ciel’s case, it’s not that impossible that it could have led to December 14th. 

the attack on Soma and Agni

Could be a hint depending on why the twin became violent and what was the purpose of the twin coming to the house in the first place.

  • Was it to see our!Ciel? And that’s why they wrote a creepy message on the wall? In that case, discovering Soma living there or Soma acting familiar with him triggered his violent reaction.
  • Or was it because of Soma himself? It’s obvious that UT told real!Ciel about what life his brother led for the last 4 years, so he could have mentioned Soma. However, considering how real!Ciel only sees and cares about him and his little brother, Soma calling himself “Ciel’s big brother” could have made him super jealous. ://

why did the attack happen on December 14th precisely?

In case anyone else is wondering. I’ve seen three possibilities until now: 

  1. because it was easier for the twin to get everything ready (muzzling the dog, etc) while everyone else was otherwise busy preparing their birthday party. There is even a mention of real!Ciel reading till super late the night before, to the point of not getting enough sleep. 
  2. because, in the idea that real!Ciel was really missing some screws, the plan to kill his dad so that he could become Earl was supposed to be a birthday gift to both him and his little brother (since the plan was one way for them to “be together forever”) (proposed by @asthmaticastre​ [x])
  3. rather than being related to the twin, the choice of the date is related to the mastermind, because Prince Albert was Queen Victoria’s love of her life and historically he died on December 14th, 1861.
    So if in Kuroverse the Queen thinks her Watchdog at the time (Claudia) was somehow responsible… she could hold a grudge => short version of the theory.  

could someone have prevented the RCMT from happening? 

Because I remember that a lot of readers used to despise Vincent and Rachel for “badly raising their son” and not paying attention, but I just don’t think it’s their fault, because I don’t think that real!Ciel behaved particularly oddly aside from that one trait.

That being said, as I explained here, I think there is a slight possibility that Vincent might have caught on about his first son’s strong (rather abnormal if the rcmt is a thing) attachment to his little brother… 

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Not that it saved him or Rachel, so I guess no one has to care, but we’re still missing one and a half year from the flashback and, in general, Vincent is a rather mysterious character so… in case we ever address that time skip again, it could be useful to at least consider the idea. 

why would UT even bring back the twin if the RCMT is true, considering how much he cared about Vincent?

Last point, but at the heart of the current arc and I agree with @dorkshadows on the matter, which is to say that UT is so biased obsessed with not wanting to lose more Phantomhives that he would probably find every reason to excuse real!Ciel’s involvement in what took place on December 14th.

Though there is also the possibility that UT didn’t even watch this part of the twin’s cinematic record before editing his record post credits, because he was already convinced that the Queen was behind the attack on December 14th. In that case he wouldn’t even know that the twin played a role in Vincent’s death. 


I’ll conclude by redirecting you to what @cielsama14 once said about the RCMT here, which I think is extremely fitting, especially considering what Sensei always said about the P family being cursed.

Long post as always with me, but I hope it was understandable!

Please keep in mind that this is my take on this theory, but there are other versions.
Don’t hesitate to ask if there is anything. Thanks for reading. 🙂

One thing I’m not sure about. I’m a big fan of RCMT, but has UT looked through all of RC’s memories? If he did watch, is it possible he overlooked that bit? Maybe he respected the twins right to privacy. (Seb called the other reapers peeping toms I think) or… does he not care that the twin had a hand in Vinny’s death? Maybe he blames the true mastermind?(Or plot convenience lol) I’m split. Everything just seems to support RCMT more and more! But that part!D: yana explain pls.

dorkshadows:

Yeah, that’s what confuses me too! I feel like there are lots of hints toward the RCMT and they’re still building, but even it does happen, I think we can be sure that RC wasn’t the one behind absolutely everything. It’s most likely he was manipulated into “hurting” his parents, and had no control over what followed.

Now, onto UT and the RCMT, I think if it happened, UT just didn’t care. He’s a Phantomhive apologist so he’d probably blame whoever gave RC the idea, and since Vincent’s dead and burnt, he doesn’t see the use in begrudging RC. His morals are extremely skewed, and he clearly doesn’t care how this will affect OC emotionally. So even if RC had a hand in patricide, UT still regards him as “family” and will do anything to bring him back to life just because he has a Phantomhive body on hand.

Besides, the CR would show much RC cares for OC (unless that plot point also changes), and since the twins are alive while Vincent’s dead, UT would think the pros outweigh the cons.

Other theory is plot convenience XD Maybe for some bizarre reason, he really didn’t look at the records at all. Or edited that part out. Anything goes at this point!

asthmaticastre:

If the Real Ciel Mastermind Theory turns out to be canon and if Ciel intentionally planned for his parents to be killed on their birthday, it makes the situation even more sinister to think that Ciel might have considered it as sort of a ‘birthday present’ to OC in that he’d be getting rid of the people (his parents, etc) who were standing in the way of them “always being together.”

cielsama14:

I think one of the most interesting parts about RCMT is that this twist isn’t supposed to be likable. It’s a cruel, brutal, and ugly twist that will tear apart whatever you previously thought of Real!Ciel! There’s no better way to culminate the cruelty of truth, one of the biggest themes in the manga! Yana would probably laugh evilly at fandom’s reactions to it. XD

Recap post about the blue sect arc: what we need answers for

This is just in case we actually start to get to the bottom of this arc in this month’s upcoming chapter. Here’s a list starting with ch108, but feel free to add in case you think I possibly forgot something!

Last update: 12/12

  • Ch108: what is that weird liquid that UT gave to the twin and why did he say “it’s still too early for you to wake up”?
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  • About Bravat himself: is he a charlatan, or is he a scientist maybe? 
    • He’s human and didn’t use to be a good deviner (ch143) 
  • Also did he really see through Seb’s disguise or was this all pretending too?

    • He confirmed that he sensed Seb was different at first glance! (ch145) 
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  • ch112: how many times did Lizzie give some of her blood to Lord Canopus? 
  • ch113: what did Lizzie mean when she was crying about “not being able to save the twin”? Save him from who or what? 
    • it was most likely about not having the same blood type ‘cause they don’t know about universal recipients (ch144)
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  • ch114/119: about blood transfusions => who mastered the procedure? Does it serve a purpose outside the 4 or 5 star lords (like war, as Wolfram pointed out)? How does it play into making more “perfect” bizarre dolls?

    Is it why real!Ciel “grew up” despite dying 4 years ago?

    How come no one knows that AB (sirius) is the universal recipient type? 

  • ch114: Othello and “50 years ago” => is this old case relevant to the current arc somehow? Or is it just related to UT’s desertion?
    • Othello and UT know each other = confirmed (ch142)
  • ch115: about the twin’s damaged arms that we can see => is it because he’s dependent on blood transfusions?
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  • ch116: is there a reason Nina was chosen by the sect to make all the outfits? Could it be because “the Hopkins tailors have outfitted generations of the Phantomhive family” (and “it’s all for the blue star” who’s the twin)?
  • ch117: why are the rooms for the 4 or 5 star lords so different? Is it supposed to remind them of their previous environment/social condition when they were still alive?
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  • ch119: Any chance that us finding out about Wolfram having the B blood type (same as Lizzie) will be relevant later? To transfuse Lizzie maybe?
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  • still ch119: was Othello speaking about UT when he said “that one didn’t know much about this stuff… who else is there?”? If so, then can another supernatural being be involved with the sect?
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  • ch123: we found out that Lord Sirius is real!Ciel, but what about the other star lords’ identity? Are they possibly characters we already met (and who died)?
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  • ch124: how/when did Bravat/the blue sect came to know and dialyze those old lords from the Parliament?
  • About the blue sect: any possible link to the Aurora society or even the mysterious Osiris company? 
  • Also if UT is really the only mastermind behind this, then why the change of method between the Weston arc and now, when he called Agares a masterpiece?
  • ch125: what’s the point of making a second music hall in Bath? Or is it just a false lead, because it was just the place where Bravat would dialyze the old lords? 
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  • ch126: was the twin wearing an eyepatch when he came to attack Agni and Soma? If no, did Soma just fail to notice the difference with our!Ciel?
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  • ch128: what was the purpose of the attack on Soma and Agni? Leaving our!Ciel a message (”who stole the candy from my tummy”)? Or simply the twin being jealous (since Soma does call himself Ciel’s “big brother”)? Something else related to the curry arc maybe, since Ciel made sure Scotland Yard wouldn’t get to Agni?
  • ch129: Did Ciel leave the pieces of the photo with Soma when they took him to Sieglinde? Will Sieglinde manage to convince Soma that our!Ciel is not the one who attacked him (since he’s the one who brought Soma + especially since she saw our!Ciel has the contract’s seal in his right eye)?
  • ch129: between the dead lords from the Parliament in ch125 and Violet probably giving the name “Ciel Phantomhive” for the blue star’s identity to Scotland Yard, will our!Ciel get in big troubles and accused of all that Bravat did in this arc?
    • Yes, he was for a good part of it (ch143)
    • where are the Double Charles?
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  • ch129: since the servants initially thought the twin was our!Ciel, did they not notice the possible absence of Sebastian by his side? Or do we have a doppelgänger for Seb too?
  • ch130: how comes Tanaka didn’t appear very surprised about the twin’s return? Could he have known in advance? But if so, who told him and why? (additional question: was it foreshadowed in ch120?)
  • Also, how and when did Tanaka find out about our!Ciel taking his brother’s identity? Could this be related to him knowing the twin was coming back?
  • ch134: what did Tanaka mean by 
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+ how did he survive his injuries and the fire

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  • ch140: we still need UT to explain how he did all of the following:
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Done~~


EDIT: more questions to add

  • ch144: where are the other star lords? In the P manor, or elsewhere?
  • ch144: what “truth” did real!Ciel tell Alexis?
  • ch145: where will Ciel and the servants go and what will they do now?
    • going overseas, with the help of Lau’s company? (ch146)

THE RCMT MASTERPOST IS UP

cielsama14:

https://realcielmastermindsoundscool.wordpress.com/2018/04/02/rcmt-masterpost/

I am forever grateful to the Japanese fandom for discovering RCMT and @akumadeenglish for sharing it with us but I’ve discovered that they’ve only scratched the surface of it! After months of discussions with others and crazy coincidences, I’ve compiled everything I could about RCMT into one gigantic masterpost around 30,000 words long. Get ready to never see the manga the same way ever again. 

HOLY SHIT

midnight-in-town:

okokokokokok so I was just discussing with @thedarkestcrow AND WE JUST REALIZED

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GUYS FOR REAL DOESN’T THIS REMIND YOU OF SOMETHING?!

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I AM SCREAMINGGGGGGGG

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Hi Anon! No worries, it changes literally nothing to any theory about Brown 🙂 A lot of readers had already theorized he was supernatural anyway, so this just seems to narrow down his true nature more.

 About December 14th though, maybe there is a misunderstanding but whoever attacked the manor (and if it’s Brown on the Queen’s behalf, it’s the same) totally wanted the twins to suffer before dying, which is why they made sure to give the twins to these child traffickers in the first place. Otherwise they would have simply killed them on the spot, like they did with Vincent and Rachel. 

As for possible backup, I was actually discussing this with @thedarkestcrow​ yesterday as well and we think that one supernatural being could have been enough to annihilate the whole mansion, definitely, which means that…

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Tanaka possibly wasn’t stabbed by a second supernatural being but rather by the human from the household who helped them (you know, the one who muzzled the dog, possibly amongst other things?). That could explain his surprise there…

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and also his words… 

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…depending on what theory you believe in (RCMT for me ;_;). 

The other possibility is that there really were 2 supernatural killers that night and something happened between the moment Tanaka was stabbed and the house completely burnt down, which led to one of the 2 disappearing/ceasing to exist somehow.

TL;DR you can take any theory about Brown being shady and keep them literally as such, just replace “possible shinigami” with “possible demon” (or corrupted angel, I guess -_-) instead.

I hope it answers your question! Don’t hesitate if things aren’t clear about December 14th, I mean, there are still things we don’t know (like who attacked Tanaka) but the intent behind the twins’ abduction seemed rather clear. 🙂 

Have a nice day, Anon!


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Hello Anon! And I guess I might agree to some extent, but since it’s not the first time I see this scenario between a manga and its early anime adaptation, I’m mostly fine with it (or I can grow up to be when I don’t like a development if you leave me time, like with the 2CT).

What I would hate would be a literal copy-pasting of S1 and S2, but so far Sensei changed enough things and made them more complex for this to work for me, at least for now (like Lizzie, UT, the lineage, the RCMT, the war subplot). 

I’d rather follow the foreshadowing that she introduces in the manga, even if some of it is shared with the anime, and her development of the plot around Ciel’s family (since Claudia was nonexistent in the anime and is an interesting plot bait in my opinion, same for the Midfords) in order to enjoy the story. 

I’m sorry that you feel like this though. :/ I guess the anime really was a mistake in more ways than one, with that at least I can definitely agree. 

I hope you can still find ways to enjoy the manga, Anon! Lots of positive vibes. :333 Have a nice day!

Hi. I’m not sure whether or not you’ve watched, read Death Note, if you did, which do you think is more tragic ending/death assuming Ciel will be devour by Sebastian at the end of the story? Being devoured by a demon or wandering in nothingness for eternity? Though I bet Ciel as well ended up wandering in nothingness. Justa random thoughts. Thank you in advance!!

Hi Anon! I half read and then half watched Death Note a long while ago. xD Actually I had started to rewatch it last summer but then I got stuff to do, so, yep.

I don’t really see the link with Kuro though, but to answer your question, as far as I’m concerned there are 3 possible endings for Ciel:

  • Ciel lives on because the contract gets broken => Seb loses. 
  • Ciel dies after getting his revenge but his soul is collected by Shinigamis because the contract somehow got broken => Seb is defeated.
  • Ciel dies after getting his revenge and his soul is eaten by Seb => Seb gets food!

I was actually discussing this a while ago with @dorkshadows​ because we have this convo about the RCMT (real!Ciel mastermind theory = real!Ciel is partially involved with what happened 4 years ago) and, while I really don’t think Yana will want to make Ciel live on, I’d rather have his soul be collected by Shinigamis than eaten by Seb.

Not that I dislike Seb, I don’t and I think it’s important he gets to eat sometimes, but

nonetheless

I really hope he will be defeated this time and go home hungry. 

The other thing is, if the RCMT is true and, more specifically, if real!Ciel knew their parents would be targeted 4 years ago but was okay with it because our!Ciel was the only person that mattered to him

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…then, since Seb most likely ate the twin’s soul (confirmation or not of that next week), I don’t want our!Ciel’s soul to be stuck with his brother’s forever in Seb’s stomach, because that would be fulfilling real!Ciel’s wish when the twin would have triggered every horror that happened to them, so hell no. 

Ciel finally resting in peace, so having his soul collected by a Shinigami (even if it’s to be sent to Hell afterwards), remains the best alternative in my opinion, since

for now

I really doubt that he has any way to live a long future. 

Does it answer your question? Sorry if not. ^^” Have a nice day Anon!

midnight-in-town:

Hey guys, remember how Tanaka said that it was hard to differentiate the twins (and our!Ciel even said that Rachel and Vincent were mistaken at times too)? Well, in that case maybe Tanaka realized which twin had come back home 4 years ago… 

when our!Ciel built the Funtom corporation, since it was his idea for a future career when he was 8/9?

(don’t mind me I’m just trying to make sense of things we still didn’t get an answer for :))

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@tai-butler possible of course 🙂 but more especially in the case of the RCMT for me. I mean, if you consider the following scene…

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Tanaka obviously knows something about the attack of December 14th, or at least he guessed who could have come after Vincent’s household. However if, more precisely, he realized that real!Ciel did something…

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then maybe our!Ciel asking him about if he’s seen the culprit would have helped Tanaka with guessing which twin came back. 

In general, I guess Tanaka had more than one way in 4 years to realize which twin our!Ciel was, especially when we know that our!Ciel is different from the rest of his family according to ch132 and UT in ch84.
However, without the RCMT, for now I don’t see how Tanaka could have realized just with seeing him at the hospital which twin our!Ciel was in ch62.

That’s why I think maybe our!Ciel building the Funtom corporation was a big hint for Tanaka, since it always was our!Ciel’s childhood dream in the first place. :))