okokokokokok so I was just discussing with @thedarkestcrow AND WE JUST REALIZED
GUYS FOR REAL DOESN’T THIS REMIND YOU OF SOMETHING?!
I AM SCREAMINGGGGGGGG
So I got a few questions over the last few months about if demons are really the only ones who can trick humans with the “dead people coming back” lie (when UT is doing it too literally with the BD project) and it took me a long time, but…
here is the panel I was talking about!
So yeah, it really looks like only demons can do that and it doesn’t even work on Shinigamis who can see through that hability of theirs (just like Shinigamis can see through their human disguise no problem).
That means that the probability for Brown to be a demon (angel?) still seems higher than for him to be a Shinigami, since he seems to be doing that with Victoria, in my opinion.
As for the sunglasses, I spoke about this before, but maybe they are a double feint (Sensei making us think Brown is hiding Shinigami eyes beneath it, like UT with his bangs, when nope) and Victoria is just enjoying when he’s wearing them so he constantly does or something. xD
Crack theory: the Phantomhive lineage is at the origin of the Watchdog duty
Very old idea related to ch103 & the GW arc overall that I never took the time to write.
Based on the fact that Claudia was most likely Vincent’s predecessor, which is implying that, when no more male heir available, using a woman from the Phantomhive family as the Watchdog was apparently a better alternative than giving the job to another nobleman loyal to the royal family.
@frederickabberline previously made a post explaining under which circumstances noble women could inherit anything, so it isn’t strange that Claudia was able to get that title. Still, the Watchdog position implies keeping control over the underworld, solving weird cases and cleaning up after the royal family, so it’s not exactly a normal position.
To keep it within a family specifically (the Phantomhives) could be a matter of keeping the Watchdog’s identity a secret, but…
…clearly ch132 and Vincent explain that, if no more heir, the whole thing goes back to the crown who decides who they’ll give it to next. So it’s probably Victoria who decided to give it to Claudia in the first place, allowing her to inherit despite being a woman (we don’t know when) and…
it’s also the Queen who decided that a 10 year old boy from the same family would receive that position.
So, assuming that the royal family intends on keeping the Watchdog duty as tightly related to the P family as possible, the question is why? Well, my answer for now would be the lineage thing.
Granted that we don’t know exactly what that lineage is yet, why it apparently has to be activated, etc, but it seems to at least have to do with being able to see/sense/detect supernatural beings. So far:
Ciel managed to spot the Shinigamis in ch103 despite them being invisible to normal human eyes at the time
the German Shinigamis said that “it runs in the family” so we can assume that it spans more than just two generations (so it’s most likely unrelated to whoever Cedric K. Ros- is)
And I’m of the opinion that it could probably be seen as useful if the royal family were to know about (and believe) it.
For now though, it’s hard to consider whether or not Victoria herself gave out hints that she might know about the lineage, because her absence of surprise towards Ciel’s report for the Weston arc could also be explained by John Brown most likely being supernatural and by her side, as many have guessed before.
The thing is, I find there is a possible analogy between the Watchdog’s duty
and Seb’s own situation as Ciel’s personal dog
Because Will basically said that a demon with a leash on (the contract & Seb’s own aesthetic) was better than free demons who would probably go around scavenging for souls that Shinigamis work hard to collect.
And it’s kinda the same if we’re considering that the Phantomhives are dogs to the royal family: putting a collar on them makes them less dangerous and more easy to keep under control (eventually hanging them with it if needs be, as UT pointed out), especially if what the royal family was originally interested in was how useful the Phantomhive lineage could be to them.
The other reason I came up with this theory is the Green Witch arc overall: again it’s just my opinion but, while the last part of the arc was really good, I have a few issues with the rest of it. I explained here why but, to sum up: compared to all the other arcs, the fake supernatural settings (werewolves, witch, curse/magic, etc) are rather unrelated to the true subplot (German army researching war weapons using a young genius), which is unusual and makes it too convenient as a result.
That being said, since I like to believe that Sensei does things for a reason, I’ve been thinking that maybe the fake supernatural settings of the GW arc are supposed to be relevant elsewhere in the story, kinda like how the murders at manor arc ended up being used as an introduction to the war suplot.
So initially, looking at what Sieglinde believed to be the truth, you get this story…
and let’s just say that this is a situation that could have easily been applied to the Phantomhive family, if anyone ever found out that they were “gifted”.
Again, we don’t know what the lineage is or where it comes from, but if Ciel’s ancestors ended up being hunted as heretics
at some point
because of it, then similarly to Sieglinde’s story, who knows if they didn’t agree to a pact with the royal family (the Watchdog duty), in exchange for their protection?
That pact gave the royal family the huge advantage to get their own little gifted dogs, generations after generations, and to use that special lineage indirectly for themselves…
…as long as they kept a tight leash on this family.
I’m aware it might appear a little far-fetched, especially when we don’t know what the lineage
really
is about yet, but that’s why it’s a crack theory.
To be honest though, I can’t help but also wonder about the timing of the lineage thing’s introduction by Sensei: ch103 is right during the final part of the GW arc after all, so it could be a coincidence or narratively meaningful because the settings of the arc do have some sort of link to that lineage stuff. :))
Let me know if anything is unclear! As always thanks for reading!!
For the first part of this theory, I completely agree with OP, I’ve had the same thoughts for some time now (I just don’t think I’ve ever written anything on it, so good job, OP). The one about the Phantomhive lineage being at the origin of the Watchdog duty. It’s a theory I very strongly support.
In fact, I consider Undertaker as being perhaps even the very first Watchdog, the first Earl of Phantomhive, the one who first took the ‘curse of being the watchdog’, so to say. Perhaps, rather than an obsession, he’s feeling responsible for brining that ‘curse’ into the family. That’s why he ‘doesn’t want to lose any more Phantomhives’ and he seems more attached to ones who still hold the Phantomhive name, Vincent + the twins, rather than Frances and her family.
Of course, the part about UT is still a bit of a crack-ish theory, so yeah. ^^
The theory of UT being the very first Watchdog/Earl Phantomhive (or supposed to be but he killed himself before it happened and the title got passed to another relative) is by far an old fandom theory, which I also stand behind because, for now, there isn’t just one way to explain UT’s close association to the Phantomhive family.
So, sure I agree, UT being a Phantomhive many many decades/centuries ago could be an explanation, just like him simply feeling very close to Claudia is another (and a third option would be a combo of both)!
Besides an obvious connection and emotional attachment, personally I think UT also shares another similarity to them anyway
If you don’t mind though, I’ll pass on the whole “he seems to care more about Vincent’s side of the family than Frances” because, while it’s indeed possible, I think it’s way too soon to say, especially since fans used to have the same debate about UT @ the twins, until ch131 confirmed it wasn’t the case. 🙂
Besides, if our!Ciel hadn’t come back, it’s quite possible that Frances would have ended up as the next Watchdog (most likely being Vincent’s old spare and all) and in that case, your idea of UT feeling guilty about that curse would also end up applying to her.
Sorry for rambling, but thanks again for your input! :))
Crack theory: the Phantomhive lineage is at the origin of the Watchdog duty
Very old idea related to ch103 & the GW arc overall that I never took the time to write.
Based on the fact that Claudia was most likely Vincent’s predecessor, which is implying that, when no more male heir available, using a woman from the Phantomhive family as the Watchdog was apparently a better alternative than giving the job to another nobleman loyal to the royal family.
@frederickabberline previously made a post explaining under which circumstances noble women could inherit anything, so it isn’t strange that Claudia was able to get that title. Still, the Watchdog position implies keeping control over the underworld, solving weird cases and cleaning up after the royal family, so it’s not exactly a normal position.
To keep it within a family specifically (the Phantomhives) could be a matter of keeping the Watchdog’s identity a secret, but…
…clearly ch132 and Vincent explain that, if no more heir, the whole thing goes back to the crown who decides who they’ll give it to next. So it’s probably Victoria who decided to give it to Claudia in the first place, allowing her to inherit despite being a woman (we don’t know when) and…
it’s also the Queen who decided that a 10 year old boy from the same family would receive that position.
So, assuming that the royal family intends on keeping the Watchdog duty as tightly related to the P family as possible, the question is why? Well, my answer for now would be the lineage thing.
Granted that we don’t know exactly what that lineage is yet, why it apparently has to be activated, etc, but it seems to at least have to do with being able to see/sense/detect supernatural beings. So far:
Ciel managed to spot the Shinigamis in ch103 despite them being invisible to normal human eyes at the time
the German Shinigamis said that “it runs in the family” so we can assume that it spans more than just two generations (so it’s most likely unrelated to whoever Cedric K. Ros- is)
And I’m of the opinion that it could probably be seen as useful if the royal family were to know about (and believe) it.
For now though, it’s hard to consider whether or not Victoria herself gave out hints that she might know about the lineage, because her absence of surprise towards Ciel’s report for the Weston arc could also be explained by John Brown most likely being supernatural and by her side, as many have guessed before.
The thing is, I find there is a possible analogy between the Watchdog’s duty
and Seb’s own situation as Ciel’s personal dog
Because Will basically said that a demon with a leash on (the contract & Seb’s own aesthetic) was better than free demons who would probably go around scavenging for souls that Shinigamis work hard to collect.
And it’s kinda the same if we’re considering that the Phantomhives are dogs to the royal family: putting a collar on them makes them less dangerous and more easy to keep under control (eventually hanging them with it if needs be, as UT pointed out), especially if what the royal family was originally interested in was how useful the Phantomhive lineage could be to them.
The other reason I came up with this theory is the Green Witch arc overall: again it’s just my opinion but, while the last part of the arc was really good, I have a few issues with the rest of it. I explained here why but, to sum up: compared to all the other arcs, the fake supernatural settings (werewolves, witch, curse/magic, etc) are rather unrelated to the true subplot (German army researching war weapons using a young genius), which is unusual and makes it too convenient as a result.
That being said, since I like to believe that Sensei does things for a reason, I’ve been thinking that maybe the fake supernatural settings of the GW arc are supposed to be relevant elsewhere in the story, kinda like how the murders at manor arc ended up being used as an introduction to the war suplot.
So initially, looking at what Sieglinde believed to be the truth, you get this story…
and let’s just say that this is a situation that could have easily been applied to the Phantomhive family, if anyone ever found out that they were “gifted”.
Again, we don’t know what the lineage is or where it comes from, but if Ciel’s ancestors ended up being hunted as heretics
at some point
because of it, then similarly to Sieglinde’s story, who knows if they didn’t agree to a pact with the royal family (the Watchdog duty), in exchange for their protection?
That pact gave the royal family the huge advantage to get their own little gifted dogs, generations after generations, and to use that special lineage indirectly for themselves…
…as long as they kept a tight leash on this family.
I’m aware it might appear a little far-fetched, especially when we don’t know what the lineage
really
is about yet, but that’s why it’s a crack theory.
To be honest though, I can’t help but also wonder about the timing of the lineage thing’s introduction by Sensei: ch103 is right during the final part of the GW arc after all, so it could be a coincidence or narratively meaningful because the settings of the arc do have some sort of link to that lineage stuff. :))
Let me know if anything is unclear! As always thanks for reading!!
Basically I think that one possibility for this arc, as far as our!Ciel is concerned, is that UT (with real!Ciel) is trying to get rid of the two dangers constantly lurking around our!Ciel.
You heard the man, he doesn’t want to lose more Phantomhives
and that definitely includes our!Ciel (he even said that he made no difference between the twins, in ch131).
To protect our!Ciel tho’, he gotta eliminate the Watchdog duty that’s like a collar Ciel will hang himself with at some point:
and that’s where the dead twin (and first heir) getting his title back could be useful since he’s already dead. So even if Victoria gets to him (since personally I think she’s the big bad), no can end like Vincent and Claudia.
The second danger is Seb
and that could be why Bravat (who was most likely speaking for UT) literally said he could offer help in dealing with Seb during his fortune telling.
Maybe that’s even what the whole framing thing is supposed to lead to. Somehow.
So I don’t know for sure, but it seems UT hasn’t lost his mind and still hasn’t reached his goal, as himself told Othello
and I think that is true, just like Sensei implying that he’s actually not a villain after ch131 came out.
Obviously the whole scheme is super complex, but if UT is after besting the Queen and a hungry demon in one go for our!Ciel’s sake, then he has to have no limit, including using people like Bravat who had a sad life or the S4 and then throwing them away.
I made a separate post, but then I figured it was better to add it to the first post I did on the subject, sorry for the double post
About our!Ciel being framed
TBH, the thing that is bothering me with the “let’s frame my bro” conspiracy is that no one is wondering about why exactly our!Ciel would go as far as to kill citizens to get their blood.
Like ??? what would be his goal in doing that as Lord Sirius/the blue star/the sect’s mastermind? Especially since real!Ciel is the one who was saying “oh I was in a very bad shape until recently” in front of everyone in ch143.
So I don’t want to call this a plot hole yet, because clearly it’s not the only part that’s not holding on (as far as characters like Ed could obviously notice), but maybe the whole framing plan is mainly working out because revealing that our!Ciel was lying for the past 4 years is increasing the doubts and confusion of the witnesses.
…Actually, since it’s definitely not an accusation that’s holding out so well, maybe the true goal is not even to frame Ciel himself. For example, UT could go next with…
“oh but Queen Victoria is the one who asked her Watchdog to create such an operation, because she’s preparing for war and wanted to experiment about blood transfusions :)))))” or an equivalent.
Because that would suddenly become very bad publicity for Victoria (killing her own people o.m.g + have you seen all the many witnesses that are just in time to hear about this), whom coincidentally UT doesn’t like at all…
Add that to the murders of the Parliamentarians (ch125) that Ciel could be accused of as well and…
…it could be one more argument that she asked her Watchdog to get them out of the way because they were getting in the way of her war plans.
Besides, that’s how Abberline was introduced to the Watchdog duty (ch15):
…so even he (who seems to be believing in our!Ciel right now) could start thinking that he was played for a fool, all for the Queen’s profit, if that’s the explanation he receives.
Ciel does work for Victoria after all and that’s something Abberline, Alexis and Edward all definitely know.
Never mind me rambling, but guys, I still can’t believe UT would simply want our!Ciel framed so that, with him out of the way, the title can go back to “the rightful heir”. That seems illogical when UT despises the Watchdog duty and said he didn’t wan’t to lose more Phantomhives.
TL;DR Ciel is not necessarily the one who’s really being framed here, if just because the accusation hardly stands if someone starts wondering about why he was after all that blood in the first place.
Meanwhile, UT has two enemies: Victoria and Seb. So maybe the whole point is to get to one of them (or both) by eventually pinning this whole case on them with our!Ciel being considered merely a pawn?
Forgive me for screenshotting, anon, but I’m on mobile and I’d like to tag this post (and forgive me for taking so long!)
Firstly, I don’t have a lot to say about Cloudia and I refuse to make any definite judgements on her until she actually turns up and is awarded a canon appearance and personality, so I actually didn’t have any intention of making a post about her at all BUT
I do have some thoughts on her, which are mostly me making guesses/suppositions and not serious theories. In any case:
Women were not allowed to keep any property they had inherited once they married: any and all possessions and income would become the property of their husband
Peerage (noble title) could be awarded to men or women, and then the patent attached to that specific family line dictated who could or could not inherit. Generally, only direct male heirs were allowed (example: the son of the earl). In some patents, the title could skip a generation if the earl or whoever only had female children, and be awarded to the son of the eldest daughter. And in very few patents (generally this was for barons/baronesses), or if the monarchy/government allowed it as an exception, the eldest daughter could inherit if no male heir was available. (you can read more [here])
I would hazard a guess that the Phantomhive line falls into the third category, or the Phantomhive patent was corrected to allow a female heir when Cloudia turned out to not have any brothers (whether or not she had younger sisters, however, is anyone’s guess)
While if Cloudia married her possessions would default to her husband… any peerage she held in her own right would not. A good living example of this is the Baroness Bottomley of Nettlestone, whose husband was only ever awarded a knighthood, and cannot become the baron himself.
Which means that Cedric could not have become the Earl of Phantomhive, no matter if he married Cloudia or not. Further, women were not technically required by law to take on their husband’s surname, even though they became his “property” upon marriage… There were also women who, even when the law attempted to force them to use/take their husband’s name, simply refused to, such as Lucy Stone, married to a Mr Blackwell. She and he agreed to incredibly modern marriage terms, and were married in their own home to a set of vows which explicitly stated that Blackwell would not enforce his “rights” as a husband on her, and they would both remain perfectly equal and independent despite their marriage. While Lucy and her husband were American, and married during the 1850s, I believe if Cedric were inclined to allow Cloudia to keep her surname, and keeping in mind that Cloudia was the Countess of Phantomhive, it’s possible they may have had the same sort of arrangement.
The fact that Cloudia brought a man into the Phantomhive household, rather than marrying out of it, and may have even kept her surname in marriage, could actually account for Francis’ feeling like her own marrying out of the Phantomhives gives her lesser say in things. Having such an exceptional and strong-willed mother, who carried the Phantomhive mantle to the next generation with minimum masculine interference, would certainly explain it.
On the other hand, Queen Victoria was a domestic icon, she was seen as the ultimate mother, devoted to her husband entirely. That is, Cloudia and Victoria would have disagreed very much on a social level. Cloudia was a revolutionary, whether she married Cedric and refused to take his surnanet or didn’t marry him and had children out of wedlock, while Victoria is the face of traditional, conservative society.
Now… What with Cloudia having been so exceptional, and having been just 9 years old at the “fifty years ago” point when UT was last called a reaper and Othello was last in the human realm, I’d like to point to an often mentioned but so far never utilised mechanic in the Kuro universe: an exceptional soul, who will create much change, may be spared death and have their mortal lives extended. Perhaps Cloudia was one such individual, and after the age of 9 was “living on borrowed time” and sort of “marked by death”, so to speak. That said, I’m not really sure what a 9 year old could do to prove herself that exceptional, unless it was really a matter of the change her inherited social position might allow her to make. This is just musing. Being “marked by death” in such a way might explain why her descendants can see grim reapers, or might maybe on the slightest chance mayyyybe have meant she could have a child with a reaper.
Anyway, I’m certain Cloudia was exceptional politically, due to her having Tanaka as a servant. Having Tanaka join her staff means she likely had some involvement in early political relations with Japan. Whether she was involved in the opening of Japan, or taking on board a fugitive pre-opening (as Tanaka would have been if he had left while Japan was still closed off from the world), it’s… Something.
As she was important politically, I’d like to also point to the fact that most of the death dates on UT’s lockets are close to some major political event or another, as I explored in [this] post.
I also think she was probably not very nice/kind. If the strictness seen in Francis came from Cedric, then the “evil noble” traits seen in Vincent (and RCiel, and OCiel now he’s been conditioned into it) likely came from Cloudia. So, just saying, but I think she was far from sweet. I may be proven wrong, of course.
I’m aware it’s my umpteenth recap post for this arc, but I’ve seen a lot of posts that are throwing UT’s characterization to the bushes after ch140 + I still can’t believe that this arc is as simple as it appears to be after almost 3 years of it, so here’s one more.
It’s nothing particularly new if you’ve been following my posts or reblogs on the topic for the past year, but less than the arc itself, I’m mostly going to focus on what possibly led to it. In fact if you read @frederickabberline‘s own recap post that is more recent, you will probably see where I’m going in general.
The reason I’m writing this post, despite possibly being proven wrong in a week or so, is because I’ve been into Kuroshitsuji for 6 or 7 years now, there are subplots everywhere that have been left hanging, and I refuse to stop believing that Sensei can craft a good story when she gave us arcs like the Campania or when she writes amazing characters.
Moving on, I’m just going to start with UT’s character:
‘Cause actually ch140 finally confirms that UT’s motivation in the story 100% revolves around the Phantomhive family
But that doesn’t mean that “bringing the twin back” was his only goal for the last 4 years.
Because not only would that imply UT gives 0 shit about our!Ciel selling his soul to a demon and that is so not true
but also because that’d create some inconsistencies with what we’ve seen of his character so far, since bringing back the twin or Ciel’s contract aren’t just what’s on UT’s mind.
I mean, guys, if UT’s motivation centers around the P family, wouldn’t you say that a little something might be linked to his issues with losing so many of them?
And he did express some concerns about our!Ciel too on this matter:
In other words UT most likely has at least 3 goals:
bringing back the dead Phantomhives (for now it’s just the twin though, because Vincent’s body is too damaged and we don’t know about Claudia) => something that’s for his own sake
saving Ciel’s soul from the contract => something that he put on hold despite almost killing Seb during the Campania arc, because Seb can be useful to protect our!Ciel against a more urgent matter, that is…
saving Ciel from the Watchdog duty/Victoria => because in just one year Ciel already did too many mistakes that most likely will end up costing him, like it most likely cost his predecessors.
you could also see this as UT wanting revenge against Victoria because of Vincent and Claudia, it’s the same.
It’s simple logic: if the Watchdog duty is responsible for taking the Phantomhives away from UT, then that explains why UT literally said he was no big fan of Victoria, especially if he believes she deliberately led Ciel’s predecessor(s) to their death. Thus trying to take Seb down can wait because…
…he can be useful to protect Ciel from whatever Victoria/Brown may plan as punishment (the Murders at manor arc being just a preview).
I’m aware that, currently, what’s super hard to decipher about UT’s character is how he sees what’s left of the P family, but I think that’s precisely what this arc is also supposed to establish, mainly through Othello’s introduction (so we might get more insights into UT’s character and backstory, which is always helpful) but also possibly through whatever will happen to Lizzie (since establishing if UT gives a damn about the Midfords would tell us what kind of obsession he has).
Until we get there though, what I wanted to insist on was the idea that personally I doubt that this super long arc is only supposed to focus on just one of UT’s goals (i.e bringing back the twin and why it’s a bad idea), because narratively speaking it’s weird and, for now, it seems to leave a lot of plot holes.
However, since I also think that taking Seb down is on hold for UT, because of more urgent matters, it means that perhaps this arc can also be about UT’s little grudge against Queen Victoria, even if indirectly, as a follow up to the Campania and Weston arcs on some aspects (I’ll expand on that in a minute).
What’s important to keep in mind is that the Bizarre Doll project originally comes from UT before his desertion wondering about if cinematic records could be edited.
Now we don’t know yet what the trigger was that led from curiosity about the CRs to thinking that maybe UT could bring back the dead if he experimented, but I’d bet on Claudia/Vincent/the twin’s death.
The whole point though is that UT would have probably needed backup, while in the early stages of experimentation: to get funds if needed, to get enough corpses, a way to make counterfeit records that he would then add to the corpses’, then a way to get those episodes he used in the Weston arc, etc.
And aside from support, he probably also needed a place to “store” the twin until he could finally manage to bring him back (so the body wouldn’t rot for example), since he saved his body 4 years ago.
So overall, I think that’s the whole point of him joining/using the Aurora society
or even striking a deal with these “eccentric fellows”.
Think about it: his goal was at least bringing back the twin, but in order to achieve this, he first needed to experiment on a lot of corpses and if he received support from “eccentric fellows”, then obviously those same guys would have wanted to see results => that’s the Campania arc.
There is a common theme tied with the Campania arc though, which was introduced in the arc previous to it: the upcoming war between at least Germany and England. Yes, it escaped no one (not even dear Victoria) that UT’s bizarre dolls would make amazing war weapons.
Anyway, UT got what he wanted from the Campania arc and he gave results to “these eccentric fellows”, as well as potential clients of theirs, using what was his first prototype of Bizarre Dolls (CR edited with counterfeit memories).
Then the Weston arc happened and it’s been 6 years, but I’m still wondering about why UT felt the need to be involved in the first place. I mean, sure, because of the Aurora society he made BDs for the ones who were killed by the Prefect 4, but since he had already inserted them (or at least just Agares) back before Ciel even joined Weston, why did he feel the need to pretend being the Principal ever since the cricket match?
For the lulz? Maybe. To see how Agares would manage, since he was UT’s masterpiece at the time? Again, maybe, but he could have done that from afar.
Another explanation could also be that he knew why Ciel was sent to Weston…
…and becoming directly involved was his way to make sure that, this time, Ciel would tell the Queen about him and his second prototype of bizarre dolls (CR edited with “episodes” coming from the corpses’ longing for the future).
Weston was different from the Campania because the Campania was something Ciel decided to investigate on his own, so he had no report to make to the Queen. After Weston though, he just had no other choice but to tell the whole truth, which is
possibly
what UT was counting on…
especially if he knew about Victoria’s war plans and that she would be interested in such a technique.
Obviously, since UT most likely personally despises Victoria, I doubt he would be happy to help her with anything. However, if UT has a deal with those “eccentric fellows” and if those BDs he’s making are a business that “those eccentric fellows” intend on selling to the highest bidder for the upcoming war, then if he really wanted to thwart Victoria’s war plans, he could…
advertise these weapons to her enemies for example.
UT’s Bizarre Dolls might not even be the only weapons “those eccentric fellows” have to sell. For example, if we look at the current arc…
And Sieglinde confirmed that the Blue Sect definitely mastered the technique through probably experimenting and then “dialyzing” those old lords from the Parliament.
Obviously we don’t know yet how the blood transfusions even factor into how/when UT brought back the twin or who invented all those devices that Othello was sent to investigate (ch125), but all in all, what’s important is that…
…Victoria felt threatened when UT is definitely involved again.
As it is right now, there is a lot we don’t quite get yet about the current arc so I only want to mention that maybe there is a difference between “bringing the twin back” and “being behind the blue sect” as far as UT is concerned in this arc.
Of course, it really does seem that the twin is at the heart of the Blue Sect…
…but why/when/how did UT create a whole sect surrounding something that’s so personal to him
when he had the twin’s corpse for 4 years
and he also said
? Especially when that sect initially seemed to be about researching blood transfusions? And when he also seems involved with “eccentric fellows”, according to the Campania arc? Couldn’t we tie everything somehow?
Everything from here onward is theoretical and just my opinion, but looking at what Othello said:
…who knows if “those eccentric fellows”/the Osiris company/the blue sect aren’t a group of humans working with several supernatural beings and experimenting with very advanced technology in different fields?
So an example of explanation for the current arc could be that:
UT initially struck a deal with “these eccentric fellows” in order to be able to experiment as much as he needed in order to make a perfect bizarre doll
because ultimately he wanted to bring (at least) the twin back
but also because at the same time all the other BDs he made to experiment could be sold and used as war weapons, thus allowing “these eccentric fellows” to make money off their deal
meanwhile, another part
of “those eccentric fellows” researched about blood transfusion
(with the help of another supernatural being who helped making those advanced devices?)
which led to them making money by “dialyzing” those old lords from the Parliament
but also possibly in order to eventually sell the technique to different armies for the upcoming war.
Then maybe, after the Weston arc, UT had the idea to combine these two (initially unrelated) methods, or “these eccentric fellows” wanted him to try, leading to the twin becoming “the blue star” and heart of Bravat’s blue sect, despite the fact that UT wanting the twin back is 100% personal.
I guess that’s when it leads to theories about what exactly Lizzie and Tanaka know about this arc, since I still don’t think Lizzie chose the twin’s side (or was crying about not being able to give her blood to real!Ciel in ch113) or that Tanaka just randomly expected the twin to come back one day.
Same for whatever UT meant in ch108 and what that liquid was (since I also don’t buy that he was able to get the twin’s soul back from Seb or whatever).
(I mean, why would it be “too early to awaken” when UT’s been working towards this goal for 4 years?)
Finally, UT being cornered into bringing back the twin as a part of another experiment by “these eccentric fellows” (instead of just on his own terms) could also explain the lack of control that he seems to have over the twin.
Bringing back the twin is something of personal significance for UT, however if Bravat’s sect represents another party that is involved with his revival, it could be that they revere the twin (and the other star lords) to the point that…
…they let this happened (by ‘this’ I mean the violence overall that took place in the town house).
Fair enough, UT probably does not care about Soma or Agni, but would he even want the twin to go this far in order to reach his brother? Sure the twin is dead and has no soul anymore but…
in general it seems UT isn’t pro-violence where the Phantomhives are concerned? I could be reading wayyy too much into this though.
…And it could be the same for Lizzie when you think about it, since she apparently gave some of her blood (at least once in ch112?) and could have been hurt way more than she was when she fought against Seb (ch117).
If UT is the mastermind behind this, then that just screams that he doesn’t care or just that he bet Seb wouldn’t kill Lizzie because Ciel wouldn’t forgive him (even though Lizzie is related to Claudia the same way the twins are). However if the current arc is somehow divided between two parties (UT with his personal goal and Bravat’s sect) then that could explain why Lizzie ended up having some rough times despite her possible significance to UT.
TL;DR Lots of questions, lots of possible answers, lots of uncertainty, my only stance on this is that I doubt we’re just supposed to pile the current arc on top of the rest of the story without any link between the different parts (more than just the 2CT finally being confirmed I mean).
It’s a long arc, it’s a complex arc, it introduced the twin, addressed what happened 4 years ago but now it’s focusing on UT’s motivations too, so is it really just going to end like the Campania and Weston arcs when even those arcs still seem to have unanswered points?
I guess we’ll see on June 18th… Thanks for reading! Sorry it was so long. :3
Thank you so much!!! Yes, I saw, and I was going to reblog with your tags to respond because I need discussion on my points so I can refine them, but since you’ve sent me an ask I’ll do it here –
I absolutely agree on the twins looking like Cloudia and that being what Othello is referring to, but I don’t think I mentioned it (because it didn’t feel relevant to the post and it wasn’t something I could back up). As for the lockets, I’m not sure about Gilbert either but I go with that date because it’s so close to Albert’s death. In the case that it was during the 80s, then there’s a couple of other dates that it could line up with, but… We’ll see. As for Emile, I don’t mean to imply that he was definitely a citizen of France. After all, Druitt is French, and by extension, Redmond has French ties, but I wouldn’t consider Redmond himself French, right? I should have been clearer about that.
I’ve also been assuming that Grelle would theoretically recognise UT based on a multitude of factors such as his scythe, height, weight, hair colour and length, extraordinarily pretty face, possibly even his voice after he dropped the act during Campania, and the fact that if she knew somebody matching this general description and skill level who had deserted, it wouldn’t take much to put the pieces together, provided Dispatch isn’t bleeding out like fifty new deserters every year or something. Lastly, they only started this method of blood collection this summer, if you recall that they’re attached to the Phoenix society who had that hospital and all those slaves and ex-patients who were experimented on by Rian and UT, they had access to a lot of people before this point. It was only this summer that they had to drop the hospital, too, since I’ll bet that operation has collapsed following Campania.
Moving on!
To be honest, I’m not sure if I’m really worth asking about these things, because I have a very limited focus and my method of analysis is a) does it relate to something that happened or was mentioned in the anime b) does it relate to a real life event c) can I see a pattern otherwise d) is it to do with William or the other reapers. I’m in the dark as to what’s going to happen with Lizzie, she’s not “my division”, so to speak, and neither is Polaris;;; I know you don’t really jive with the anime as a source material, I checked your blog, but I still reeaaallly want to point you to [my very long post] about the parallels, because it’s where I come from as a theorist even if it’s a weird way to go about it. I respect that others don’t view it the same way, but it’s my grounding, you know?
But I’ll start with Polaris, just to also say I have literally no clue who the other lords are, none whatsoever, not the foggiest. No clue where they came from or why Blavat has them (or rather, they have Blavat,). I’m not sold on them being characters we already know, but that’s only because I really have no idea who they could be. I do think Polaris is the one who killed Agni. Now, if John Brown is supernatural (which, he is, let’s be real) then Polaris can’t be John Brown, as Polaris is receiving blood and is therefore most likely human, unless one of the Vega twins actually has the blood type Polaris is supposed to have, and so the blood collected for him is going to one of them, but that’s just too convoluted at this point.
Polaris…. could be the being who collected RC’s body, which I think is that cloaked figure, but… Well, the supernatural thing comes up again. Because Sebastian killed every human. (…and there’s a part of me without concrete evidence that suspects the figure to be John Brown anyway…)
If he isn’t supernatural, then we have a collection of very strong humans so far as well, and if he’s been brought back to life then he could have been physically enhanced as well. Like Agni is so strong because he was so dedicated to Soma, and perhaps Polaris has a similar thing going on, maybe that’s his whole deal too? I’ve not really thought about it.
I also haven’t really thought about Lizzie, but she’s definitely being used as a pawn by whoever is running the Blue Sect. Probably it’s worth noting that this is the same arc we see Othello, so named because of that game of pieces switching sides. It’s an isolation tactic against OC, and my personal belief is this arc has a good chance of leading to him becoming isolated, confused about his revenge, and stripped of his title as he was near the end of the anime. I don’t know if that will definitely happen at the end of this arc, but I think this arc has a good chance of being at least one of the factors that would lead to this. Lizzie survived the anime, but then again so did Agni, so her becoming mortally wounded isn’t out of the question. Either way, isolation tactic, and her being a good guard is probably a side benefit for the Blue Sect.
Tanaka, however, I can get into! He knows so much! This is where I get anime on you again and point out that he knew the entire time who killed Vincent and didn’t say anything to Ciel because it was against Vincent’s wishes. Further, Tanaka and Ash were on friendly terms, even if it was just a one-off gag. Tea with the enemy. Same thing revealing itself here, Tanaka is very aware of the truth at all times but he keeps it all to himself because he’s got a strict non-interference policy. I think he wants the twins to live truthfully, at that, based on his being so active in wanting OC to slowly and gently heal in the Green Witch arc. He knew OC wasn’t RC, he knew this was the facade falling down, and he wanted it to stay on course. Based on that same non-interference vibe, though, I don’t think he’ll explicitly take RC’s side against OC except in the matter of RC technically being master of the house (and therefore commanding his service). I can’t see him attacking OC, is what I mean.
Tanaka has seen the deaths of Vincent, Cloudia, and RC, even if RC is technically back, that makes it three generations he’s watched fall. The Phantomhive butler cannot die before their master indeed. This is the point where I point out that Alex B.’s locket puts his death date (1854 April 20) as not only just a couple of years before the Second Opium War, but the same year Japan was forcibly opened to trade with America (that part of the expedition was 13 February 1854 ~ 11 July 1854, with the treaty that opened trade happening on March 31). Tanaka is so related to all of this, he’s inextricably woven into this whole political mess that the twins are inheriting, but he’s so secretive that we only have a sliver of the full story regarding him. In short, it would be more surprising for him to be (openly) surprised, because there’s no way he hasn’t known to some degree what’s been going on, and he’s maybe hoping that what’s happening now will be a solution.
@frederickabberline Sorry about the tags xD It was very early in the morning when I read your post buuuut I didn’t want to impose on your hard work but then I also couldn’t stay quiet so akzejakzejkr ANYWAY. Thanks for answering my questions :33 I just have a few more things to add, which I hope you may find worth your time.
Firstly just to make things clear, I am not of the opinion that the anime doesn’t hold any interest when it comes to theorizing (because obviously it does, for reasons you pointed out). It’s just that I’m tired of fans forgetting that in case of differences between the manga and the anime, then the manga content is what’s canon. That’s all. 🙂
Now, when it comes to UT not being recognized by the other English reapers, I really like your idea that UT possibly wandered around before “officially” deserting around 1839, kinda like Grell did for a while when they were killing alongside Red (they still had the death list, the scythe, the glasses before Will brought them back).
However, it is also true that I think his current appearance possibly drastically changes from what he used to look like as an acting reaper. Sensei confirmed that the scars were post-desertion (at least for the anime, but it’s one of these things I can assume being relevant for the manga as well), so between that, the possible hair bleaching and the creepy appearance, it’s not impossible that he might be hard to instantly recognize.
I just like your idea more because Will keeps complaining about the lack of reapers and I too kinda doubt that Grell would forget a man apparently as beautiful as UT. xD
About the blood collects for the star lords: you’re right, it’s my bad, I definitely forgot about what Lau said in April regarding the Karnstein hospital being a source of corpses, despite discussing it once before as a possibility for the blood collects. So I guess the experiment with the star lords could have been going on even from before Summer then!
The only thing I still doubt is the identity of the other star lords besides the twin, because they could be random characters or not at this point. If they are random then no problem; if they’re characters we’ve seen before who were brought back to life somehow (even if I’m really not sure either), then it might change the timeline since Kuroshitsuji for now spans the years 1888/1889 (unless of course we’re saying that they started with real!Ciel and then experimented with the other star lords way after).
Regarding Polaris now, first of all I’m glad we agree on the whole Polaris =/= Brown or Tanaka, specifically because of the blood transfusions. Also, while it’s true we have no way to be sure that Agni’s killer is indeed really Polaris (instead of Brown in disguise for example), I’d still assume so because of the knives the killer used that we could see in Polaris’ room.
As for Polaris’ huge strength (since I’m just going to assume it’s him), I asked you this, because I proposed a theory a while ago about his strength possibly being enhanced by the same formula as Finny who was a successful German experiment, and I was curious about if you had any other idea.
The + of my idea is that it’s yet another argument to the whole “UT is either partially involved or not involved at all with the twin’s revival” because real science is definitely not his gig, as he made sure to say during the Campania arc (hence Othello’s words in ch119, I completely agree with you). The – is that it doesn’t help us figuring out who the other supernatural being is (in case they’re not a new character) and which side they’re on, so to speak.
Initially, I assumed that the blue sect could be on Victoria’s side (when you presented them to be against her, which is another interesting possibility) and managed by Brown (who’s probably a demon, yes):
because she wants war (and Wolfram coincidentally mentioned that blood transfusions are super useful for war),
because the equipment and devices she gave to Sieglinde in ch114 are similar-looking to these of the sect,
because she’s interested in bizarre dolls (and other useful war weapons)
because killing these lords from the Parliament in ch125 might also be seen or used as a political move (since “the Queen reigns but does not rule” and, again, she definitely wants that war)
because the hooded dude from 4 years ago could be the killer of December 14th (*cough*I agree it’s possibly Brown*cough*), keeping an eye on the twins the whole month to make sure they would die horribly and then taking the twin’s body before he burnt.
And since Ciel is the one who annihilated the German organization that was experimenting on kids like Finny and enhancing their strength during the year before Kuro started, Victoria might have (developed) the formula thanks to him (kinda like she almost gained the SuLIN from the GW arc).
Of course, it’s also possible that you’re the one who has the right idea and, whichever country the blue sect mostly works for/is financed by (Germany? France? unless they’re just creating war weapons to sell to the highest bidder when the war starts?), they have a similar formula to the one developed by those German scientists, which they could have used on the star lords (or just on Polaris who’s supposed to protect
real!Ciel as the blue star’s butler).
Please let me know if anything is unclear, IDK how many posts I wrote on the subject by now, but since everything is possibly entangled together, it can be hard to explain well. :3
About Lizzie, we don’t really agree in the sense that I don’t think her being a pawn used by the sect (despite them seeing her like that) or a damsel in distress (like in that arc from the anime) are the only possibilities for her role in the current arc, but that’s okay. 🙂
Since my answer is becoming super long though
(sorry -_-), I’ll just leave you a link to a post in which I expanded on the subject (alternative title being “hopefully Frances is relevant as a character”) just in case you’re interested!
And finally about Tanaka, who’s probably the most knowledgeable character of the entire cast just like you said (kinda subverted regarding UT and possibly Frances though), I personally took his lack of surprise regarding the twin “not being dead” as something that might be relevant (and possibly foreshadowed in ch120?) to the different sides that are facing off in that arc.
I am 200% prone to reading way too much into details like this however, but it’s just that these days I doubt this arc is as simple as UT + blue sect vs Ciel & Seb. I guess Tanaka’s possible agency in this arc (and alternatively Lizzie’s) depends on what exactly UT’s own agency towards the sect is though, so I’ll just stop there. :3
Again I apologize for rambling (this is exactly the reason I avoided adding anything besides tags to your other post), but thanks again for answering my questions, that was really interesting! ^3^
okokokokokok so I was just discussing with @thedarkestcrow AND WE JUST REALIZED
GUYS FOR REAL DOESN’T THIS REMIND YOU OF SOMETHING?!
I AM SCREAMINGGGGGGGG
Seeing as this post has led to a lil’ debate in the comment section, let me precise something: at this moment we don’t know if there is anything like a contract between Brown and Victoria.
It’s possible there is but my post was just pointing out that what Seb tried to sell to Ciel is something that Brown can do too (implying that he might be a demon) and anyway, no matter if there is a contract or not, Victoria doesn’t constantly think that Albert is alive…
it’s just that, when she gets sad, Brown uses the puppet to instantly comfort her and that’s when her discourse changes:
So maybe think of it as Brown “making her think that Albert is alive” when she’s in need of it (i.e when sadness overwhelms her).
okokokokokok so I was just discussing with @thedarkestcrow AND WE JUST REALIZED
GUYS FOR REAL DOESN’T THIS REMIND YOU OF SOMETHING?!
I AM SCREAMINGGGGGGGG
Hi Anon! No worries, it changes literally nothing to any theory about Brown 🙂 A lot of readers had already theorized he was supernatural anyway, so this just seems to narrow down his true nature more.
About December 14th though, maybe there is a misunderstanding but whoever attacked the manor (and if it’s Brown on the Queen’s behalf, it’s the same) totally wanted the twins to suffer before dying, which is why they made sure to give the twins to these child traffickers in the first place. Otherwise they would have simply killed them on the spot, like they did with Vincent and Rachel.
As for possible backup, I was actually discussing this with @thedarkestcrow yesterday as well and we think that one supernatural being could have been enough to annihilate the whole mansion, definitely, which means that…
Tanaka possibly wasn’t stabbed by a second supernatural being but rather by the human from the household who helped them (you know, the one who muzzled the dog, possibly amongst other things?). That could explain his surprise there…
and also his words…
…depending on what theory you believe in (RCMT for me ;_;).
The other possibility is that there really were 2 supernatural killers that night and something happened between the moment Tanaka was stabbed and the house completely burnt down, which led to one of the 2 disappearing/ceasing to exist somehow.
TL;DR you can take any theory about Brown being shady and keep them literally as such, just replace “possible shinigami” with “possible demon” (or corrupted angel, I guess -_-) instead.
I hope it answers your question! Don’t hesitate if things aren’t clear about December 14th, I mean, there are still things we don’t know (like who attacked Tanaka) but the intent behind the twins’ abduction seemed rather clear. 🙂
Have a nice day, Anon!
Hello Anon! And I guess I might agree to some extent, but since it’s not the first time I see this scenario between a manga and its early anime adaptation, I’m mostly fine with it (or I can grow up to be when I don’t like a development if you leave me time, like with the 2CT).
What I would hate would be a literal copy-pasting of S1 and S2, but so far Sensei changed enough things and made them more complex for this to work for me, at least for now (like Lizzie, UT, the lineage, the RCMT, the war subplot).
I’d rather follow the foreshadowing that she introduces in the manga, even if some of it is shared with the anime, and her development of the plot around Ciel’s family (since Claudia was nonexistent in the anime and is an interesting plot bait in my opinion, same for the Midfords) in order to enjoy the story.
I’m sorry that you feel like this though. I guess the anime really was a mistake in more ways than one, with that at least I can definitely agree.
I hope you can still find ways to enjoy the manga, Anon! Lots of positive vibes. :333 Have a nice day!
I guess the anime really was a mistake in more ways than one, with that at least I can definitely agree. 
midnight-in-town 