Should the Undertaker=Cedric theory be canon, which Kuroshitsuji character will confirm it?
That’s what I’ve been thinking, so I decided to make this post.
I used to be a little hesitant of this theory, however, as soon as Yana confirmed that Vincent and Francis are true-blood siblings, all my hesitation disappeared. (English translation by@akumadeenglish)
In my point of view, the missing puzzle piece that will click everything together and confirm this is Undertaker’s real name.
So who of all the Kuroshitsuji cast will finally reveal Undertaker’s real name?
¤ Frances: She is very likely to confirm this, however, seeing how Vincent never told his sons about their grandmother, her life experiences could be kept secretive for various reasons. That could eliminate all the chances of her talking about Cloudia, or her father.
¤ Tanaka: He has been a Phantomhive butler for a very long time, thus him having knowledge of Cedric and Cloudia is very plausible.
Unfortunately though, the said mystery of Cloudia P. could be an obstacle to him revealing anything about her.
¤ Ciel Phantomhive: While being under UT’s care, Undertaker might have told him a thing or two about his past.
Nevertheless, should that have happened, it’s viable he knows very few things conserning this topic.
¤ Undertaker himself: He could reveal his name himself, though the chances of that happening anytime soon are extremely low considering his goals.
He might not give us a head start for this theory, meaning that he might not confirm his real identity. However, it is feasible that Undertaker is going to be the one who will explain his ties with the Phantomhive family (ideally through a very long flashback).
And finally…
¤ William T. Spears and Grell Sutcliff: Indeed, everyone! It could very well be them who confirm the Undertaker=Cedric theory.
Let’s not forget that William manages the shinigami files, and asked Grell to make a report on the deserter. Undertaker’s name could be found out through that report and when that happens, this theory could finally be considered canon!
Edit:
Thank for reminding me! I’m surprised I forgot him myself, haha!
¤ Othello: The guy has been a shinigami for a pretty long time but hasn’t been in the human world for half a century. (Undertaker has also been a deserter for half a century as mentioned in the Campania arc.)
Also, let’s not forget that since he hasn’t been in the human world for half a century, he couldn’t have seen Vincent or Ciel ever before. Nevertheless, Ciel must have reminded him of someone. Of someone who has managed to make a shinigami fall in love and desert, Cloudia Phantomhive.
@serinigalini ahhh good, you saw my addition! :3 I definitely am vouching for Othello to give us either UT’s real name or to tell us about the circumstances behind his desertion 50 years ago, once this arc is coming to its end or something.
One thing though, I just don’t think UT necessarily deserted because of Claudia. And even if somehow she was in some ways involved in what happened 50 years ago (since it’s possible that’s who Othello was reminded of when he saw Ciel), I doubt he would have left because he fell in love with her or anything, since she was barely ten years old at the time. 😉
I mean, UT has stalker vibes, but he’s definitely not Kelvin, at least I hope so. xD
Whenever Ciel met with Queen Victoria for a private audience…
she was always with just the Double Charles…
John Brown was nowhere to be seen…
even though he might generally show up after the audience was over with…
But you know, it makes sense since he’s described as her aide, maybe he supposedly doesn’t have his place whenever the Queen meets with her watchdog, which is why only her butlers stay.
EXCEPT…
…in ch108, because it went the other way around when the Queen met with Sieglinde and they discussed possibilities for war weapons. This time the Double Charles didn’t stay but John Brown did and assisted to the meeting with Sieglinde.
It’s also at the same time that he said this…
…after Ciel tried to double cross them and to hide from the Queen the true nature of Sieglinde’s latest invention.
Conclusion?Nothing new, but just to add on the theory that Brown is probably not just a simple “aide” to Victoria, but rather one of the main reasons…
…she’s so powerful and shady herself.
GUYS I JUST NOTICED!!!
“50 YEARS AGO”
Crack theory about “50 years ago” but since Othello said “almost” I’m going to guess that the last time Othello came around was at least 1840, which would mean that Claudia was around 10 years old.
And (this is where the crack theory starts) since we know the Queen didn’t hesitate to make our!Ciel, a ten years old boy with a big trauma, into her Watchdog…
…one can wonder if a rather similar scenario didn’t happen in the past already. We know that Vincent became the Watchdog at 15 years old too, so imo it’s possible that Claudia became the Watchdog at a young age.
So, when Othello came to the human world “almost 50 years ago”, maybe the investigation back then involved a 10+ year old girl this time, no matter if she was the Watchdog or her dad was and she was following him around. And since
Ciel looks like Vincent who, according to Yana, looks like Claudia
…maybe that’s what Othello means by “I feel like I’ve seen you before”.
For the record, at first I thought maybe Othello meant the twin, but since the twin is probably something like a Bizarre Doll, I doubt that Othello and Grell would have left him and the other star Lords alone if the investigation had already progressed that much by the time of ch125.
So my Claudia is an Aries and, even though I’m shitty at anything astrological, I thought I might as well check what we can expect if we ever get to her one day and Yana chose her birth date on purpose: [x]
Aries likes: Comfortable clothes, taking on leadership roles, physical challenges, individual sports (she’s a Phantomhive alright lmao)
Aries dislikes: Inactivity, delays, work that does not use one’s talents
As the first sign in the zodiac, the presence of Aries always marks the beginning of something energetic and turbulent. They are continuously looking for dynamic, speed and competition, always being the first in everything – from work to social gatherings.
Aries rules the head and leads with the head, often literally walking head first, leaning forwards for speed and focus. Its representatives are naturally brave and rarely afraid of trial and risk. They possess youthful strength and energy, regardless of their age and quickly perform any given tasks.
…OMG now I’m craving to meet her even more!
(*≧∀≦*)
(btw, “marks the beginning of something energetic and turbulent”? I’m telling you guys, she was murdered too and what happened to Vincent is linked to what happened to her)
While I was at it, I noticed that Cedric K. Ros is also an Aries since he was born on March 25th! So just for the fun of it, I checked their compatibility from different sites :)) These under read more
Out of curiosity, I looked up what her Chinese zodiac would be and 1830 was the year of the Tiger. Aries and Tiger. And not only a Tiger, Chinese zodiacs also have elements attached. She was a Metal Tiger… Jesus, this woman.
“The Tiger, the living symbol of strength and power, generally inspires fear and respect. Tigers’ compelling dynamism, intense activity, independence and curiosity about others make them irresistible, persons of multiple charms; Tigers attract followers and admirers. The Tiger is courageous, active and self-assured, and makes an excellent leader and protector. However liberal-minded Tigers may be, they are passionate, rash, and resist the authority of others. Although they are selfish in the little things, they are capable of great generosity, even of altruism, in the larger. Tigers are men and women of action, thrust by destiny into the spotlight.
“ |x]
I found another site that combines the Western and Eastern zodiacs and this is what it has to say about Aries + Tiger, which they’ve labeled as Rhinoceros. XD The Love and Friendship section is pretty interesting…
“Relationships are one of the only things in life that a Rhinoceros struggles with. Used to getting their way through force and willpower they are naturally intimidating – a trait which doesn’t necessarily attract others to them. This is not to say they are not warm-hearted. If they consider you a friend a Rhino will fight to the death to protect you, but sometimes they don’t know how to just relax and connect with people. To the Rhinoceros everything is a battle, every situation something to be conquered. Members of this sign tend to be lucky and enjoy sharing their spoils of war with their friends, if for no other reason than to have others awe at what they are capable of earning.
Not surprisingly, love is even harder for a Rhino. They don’t like to compromise, ever. They want someone who will fight the battles of life alongside them without question or hesitation. This can be difficult to find as well as exhausting for those who partner up with them. It’s nearly impossible to match the intensity of a Rhinoceros, so unless both sides of the relationship can accept that they won’t always be on the same page, the partnership is bound to hit rocky terrain. For this reason, Rhinos usually end up with someone equally aggressive or someone who will bend to their every whim.”|x|
Aaaaa please Yana make her as badass as these pages are making her sound!!
Well, as I said I’m really no good with astrology, so I just looked it up in Claudia’s case xD But if you say so, I’ll believe you. It’s true the Phantomhives are just too extra so I’m not surprised that they all sound incredible as a family. :3 See, one more reason I love them.
That being said, now that I think about it your ask reminds me of this…
…Considering that the last time Othello came to the human world was “50 years ago” and that Claudia was a kid back then (and that Ciel was thought to look like a girl a few times xD) I wonder if Othello’s “I’ve seen you before” might not imply that he was actually speaking about Claudia.
Which is why it’s even funnier if what you said is true, because it complements the parallel between them xDDD
As pointed out by @midnight-in-town in this post, something most certainly happened 50 years ago, but we still have no idea as to what exactly. There are some theories out there, but I’d like to post my own thoughts. This isn’t strong enough to be a full theory as of yet, but I hope that some of the ideas are interesting.
Fifty years ago, the Queen died, but she wasn’t supposed to. She might have been killed by a supernatural creature or there was a mistake made somewhere. She wasn’t supposed to die. This was a major situation because of who or how she was killed. Othello had to investigate, which is why he was in the human realm fifty years ago. The Shinigami that was assigned to her case made some major blunder, or he was the one to kill her, which is why Undertaker deserted. Perhaps he deserted to avoid being punished for his crimes, or there might have been more to it. Either way, this whole situation is one reason he dislikes her. To protect Victoria, a supernatural being in the form of John Brown was assigned to stay by her side, or perhaps he made the decision himself.
Thoughts? I know it’s still a bit cracky, but I wanted to post it.
Nice! I actually had a quite similar idea a while ago (here). I thought about the possibility that the Queen may have died 50 years ago but was then judged worthy by a shinigami which maybe even caused Undertaker to desert since he didn’t agree with the decision of letting the Queen live.
Whenever Ciel met with Queen Victoria for a private audience…
she was always with just the Double Charles…
John Brown was nowhere to be seen…
even though he might generally show up after the audience was over with…
But you know, it makes sense since he’s described as her aide, maybe he supposedly doesn’t have his place whenever the Queen meets with her watchdog, which is why only her butlers stay.
EXCEPT…
…in ch108, because it went the other way around when the Queen met with Sieglinde and they discussed possibilities for war weapons. This time the Double Charles didn’t stay but John Brown did and assisted to the meeting with Sieglinde.
It’s also at the same time that he said this…
…after Ciel tried to double cross them and to hide from the Queen the true nature of Sieglinde’s latest invention.
Conclusion?Nothing new, but just to add on the theory that Brown is probably not just a simple “aide” to Victoria, but rather one of the main reasons…
The parallel between UT’s words and Othello’s was obvious ever since ch114 because Othello was yet another shinigami who made a reference to “50 years ago”, but that mention with Victoria, and by extension most likely John Brown who’s strongly suspected to be supernatural? I literally noticed as I was posting the op that I kept in my drafts for two weeks and that’s why I just can’t believe I never noticed before. x)
Anyway, I definitely agree with you: in the first place Othello coming to the human world means that there is a serious case going on
…so whatever happened at that time (and to answer @white-queen-lacus’ input) maybe UT isn’t the only one who deserted “50 years ago”, if Brown is also a Shinigami.
Can’t wait to find out if that’s a coincidence or not in any case. 🙂
@hitsugikuro: Shinigamis don’t judge humans’ soul in the manga 😉 they only collect them according to their list.
However, yeah at this point it’s possible that JB is not a Shinigami, but rather another kind of supernatural being and he was responsible for triggering that big case of 50 years ago, which led to Othello’s involvement and UT’s own desertion somehow. :)) …Just like he might be another Shinigami who also deserted around 50 years ago, I mean, it’s impossible to say for now xD
At least, Othello’s involvement back then implies that the Shinigamis’ superiors themselves were concerned about what was going on, which means it was something serious and we’re surely getting answers on this towards the end of this arc!
EDIT: Brown being another Shinigami who deserted might explain this though…
as in, Othello was not referring to UT in this scene but to someone else as we discussed here. :))
Whenever Ciel met with Queen Victoria for a private audience…
she was always with just the Double Charles…
John Brown was nowhere to be seen…
even though he might generally show up after the audience was over with…
But you know, it makes sense since he’s described as her aide, maybe he supposedly doesn’t have his place whenever the Queen meets with her watchdog, which is why only her butlers stay.
EXCEPT…
…in ch108, because it went the other way around when the Queen met with Sieglinde and they discussed possibilities for war weapons. This time the Double Charles didn’t stay but John Brown did and assisted to the meeting with Sieglinde.
It’s also at the same time that he said this…
…after Ciel tried to double cross them and to hide from the Queen the true nature of Sieglinde’s latest invention.
Conclusion?Nothing new, but just to add on the theory that Brown is probably not just a simple “aide” to Victoria, but rather one of the main reasons…
Hi 🙂 I don’t see how it could be a hint, to be honest with you Anon. Especially since they never interacted in these two chapters and we never had any “real” hint of UT being blood related to Lizzie or Ciel anyway, aside from a possible romance between UT and Claudia and that’s far from being enough.
However, I think that, because the Campania arc was an arc which main focuses were UT and Lizzie, it does imply that they’re important characters in regards to the plot and Ciel’s character. It’s even something that the blue sect arc confirms since Lizzie is literally at the heart of the arc…
…and since Othello was introduced when he might be able to tell us a bit about the Undertaker.
Like his real name for example.
So I’m afraid that the only way for us to really know whether or not UT is blood related to Lizzie, Ed and the twins is for us to know what exactly his relationship was with Claudia and if Shinigamis can even reproduce in the first place.
Hello and thank you very much for reading and for the nice words, Anon! ^3^
About UT and Othello, well…
…I think that they knew each other and that they worked together (like with Grell in this arc) for the last case that got Othello to come to the human world, almost 50 years ago.
As a result, it seems pretty obvious that the reason Othello was introduced in the first place was to give us info about UT (how he was like 50 years ago, why he deserted…) which could as a result…
trigger info about the P family, especially since we now know that Ciel has a strange lineage thanks to ch103
Real!Ciel definitely was brought back from the dead and UT would definitely be the main suspect in the minds of Seb and Ciel (even if it’s not sure yet that UT is the one who did it, in my opinion).
So I see them as just ex-colleagues (since UT deserted) for now. 🙂 I hope it answers your question.
Have a nice day Anon and thanks again for the nice words!
Just one thing: after meeting with UT’s BDs twice already, you’d think that if Real!Ciel was yet just another bizarre doll, Seb wouldn’t say “I have never encountered someone like yourself” (especially when he caught on almost immediately about Agares being dead during Weston).
It could be that Seb feels like this because the way the twin and the other lords were brought back wasn’t through UT’s old technique of editing the cinematic records. Yep, possible.
However, it could also be that the one behind this revival isn’t UT at all, since him changing his method after achieving good results with Agares wouldn’t make much sense, especially when he once said
And that’d be why Seb says that he has never encountered someone like the twin before, because the twin is only based on UT’s bizarre dolls, but he isn’t one since he has a different creator.
Also, I didn’t understand something. The twin started to talk about how Tanaka told him everything about his brother’s life since the tragedy, but didn’t Undertaker talk to him? Did he just set him free to go wherever he wants without any information? Like “okay, you’re alive now, I won’t tell you a thing, boy bye”
I would have liked to see Tanaka’s reaction after seeing RC, honestly… I don’t know, it seemed too weird… anyway, @wattsyslaments I agree with @midnight-in-town about the fact that UT is not the mastermind this time. It is possible that UT simply “watched” over the twin (and secretly working to sabotage the plan), but he didn’t really tell everything. Otherwise, I don’t think that RC would have waited so much to show himself. He perhaps didn’t really know what happened next, apart from some useful truths (if he tells Snake that OC killed the Circus troupe… well, we’ll definitely know that some “royal blather” occurred).The idea of JB and the Queen as the ultimate masterminds against UT is so exciting! :3 I wouldn’t be surprised if everything resulted in a “game” between fallen Shinigami, at the end. 🙂
@white-queen-lacus: I’m glad I’m not the only one who’d like to see this. xD
@wattsyslaments, your point is one more possible hint to this theory in my opinion. The person who brought the twin back told him about Sebastian eating his soul and about our!Ciel stealing his identity and the ring.
I gave hints before as to why this person could be UT and UT also interacted with the twin as we could see in ch108/120, but things still don’t add up for reasons I already explained here and in regards to the point you raised.
@innocentbeing: Please feel free to share your opinion, there is no problem 🙂 I just think that if Real!Ciel were just something close to the BDs we were used to (with UT combining two different methods), Seb wouldn’t say that he never encountered someone like him.
It could be that UT changed or added something to his old method, definitely, but something feels off. We know Real!Ciel got his soul to be eaten by Seb, and UT said during the Campania arc that he can’t create a soul or have the BDs take the soul of someone else, but what if another mastermind was able to give something like a soul (to make him seem/act more alive) to Real!Ciel? That might explain Seb’s comment.
For example…
It’s just a crack idea but for someone who’s quite clever and manipulative, Victoria always seems to really really believe that Albert is with her whenever Brown makes its puppet speak and it always has quite an effect on her.
So if Brown is somehow managing to give… “life”/something substantial to his Albert puppet, so that Victoria would truly feel that he was still around when she needs her husband, who knows if he didn’t do that with corpses and with the twin, when there is a high possibility that he’s supernatural in the first place?
As I said, just a crack theory, but here you go for the full thing. 😉
I agree with all of this and just wanted to tack on this curious thing Othello said in chapter 119. We know that Othello said he hadn’t smelled the ‘organic’ scents of the human world in about fifty years, which is coincidentally around the time that Undertaker deserted.
I was a little skeptical about his wording at first, unsure of who he meant. But I think with all of the other clues we’re being given that Othello was talking about Undertaker and that his role in the story is probably going to be to fill us in on some of Undertaker’s past or tie in some information only he’s privy to. Otherwise, he’s not a very necessary character at this point other than being more observant than Grell (but that role could have also been filled by other Reaper characters who were previously introduced).
I don’t think we’ve seen the last of either Grell or Othello after Agni’s death, either. They’ve shown up too many times in this arc to just be sidelined for the rest of it, so I think Othello especially has an important piece of the puzzle that hasn’t been revealed yet.
Excellent point and I completely agree. 🙂 Othello definitely knows UT and what UT said on the Campania vouches for him indeed not really being into science, so while I was also disagreeing at first when ch119 came out, it seems that Othello himself is ruling UT out as the mastermind.
There is also the following thing to consider about Victoria (since she’s my other possibility of the co-villain for this arc) from the Murders at Manor arc…
…Because she always was described as someone who had fearsome powers of observations (close to precognition) and Othello said…
…On top of the equipment of the Sphere music hall looking like the equipment that she gave to Sieglinde in ch114, as you already pointed out. 🙂
Thanks for your input!
@tai-butler: oh, you’re absolutely right, it could be this interpretation as well!
I find it interesting that being murdered didn’t mean that Agni had altered records in Grelle’s death note. We know that for sure, because Grelle told Sebastian, “We’ll be meeting again before you know it… so just you wait!” (ch 125 pg 38), because she knew Agni’s reaping would take place soon.
Just what does it take to have altered records?
Othello’s monologue in chapter 125 suggests that, “it can happen if someone or something with knowledge beyond the purview of man decides to interfere in the affairs of humans” and that “demons have been known to play that role” (ch 125 pg 36).
From that, I would think that Ciel and Sebastian are leaving a trail of altered records in the wake of their murders, because Sebastian is a supernatural being. Maybe that’s why the shinigami Sascha and Ludger paid close attention to them as they killed soldiers in Germany?
Since the statesmen Ciel and Sebastian found murdered in Bath all had altered records, that would also confirm that there is a supernatural influence working with Blavat.
But on the other hand, someone managed to kill Agni, and it’s hard to imagine that happening without supernatural influence.
Maybe you only get altered records when lives are extended due to supernatural influence? I’m having trouble thinking of another explanation.
I think that might be confirmed by Violet having an altered record when he eventually loses his life. Heck, everyone in the Phantomhive household would have an altered record, from Sebastian saving their lives at various points.
That’s an interesting topic! If a supernatural influence can change the shinigami’s to-die list, as Othello said, then that’s probably because – other than with humans – a supernatural being’s doings can’t be predicted. But in that case that should apply with Sebastian, too, and like you said he and Ciel should leave a trail of altered records. Maybe that’s why there’s always a shinigami around. However, the lists of people who died because of Sebastian in the past didn’t seem to be altered. So why wouldn’t they if it was a demon who caused these deaths?
Maybe the shinigami’s to-die list only changes if a supernatural being is directly responsible for someone’s life being shortened or prolonged significantly. That would be the case with Ciel, for example, since he probably should have died that day in the cult if it hadn’t been for Sebastian. That might also be what Sebastian meant by this line as I’ve discussed before:
However, the to-die list for the people on the Campania who have been killed by the Bizarre Dolls may not have been altered (or at least not that much). Even though these people were killed by supernatural beings they may have died anyway because the ship was sinking.
Similar with the children in Kelvin’s manor. If Sebastian and Ciel hadn’t come they would have probably died anyway, eventually.
Or maybe the records aren’t altered because it was actually always Ciel – a human – who controlled Sebastian’s actions. And as such they can be predicted by the shinigami’s higher-ups. So maybe records are only altered if a supernatural being makes decisions and interferes with humans by their own choice. And in that case I think the only human whose record was altered because of Sebastian would be Ciel since Sebastian chose to appear and make a contract with him. Everything else was Ciel’s decision.
That could also mean that the being responsible for the old guys’ prolonged life in the current arc was acting on their own without a human’s decision.
midnight-in-town 