ok, as a followup to my previous question, some more speculation on the topic: if noro is the original one eyed king (his regenerative power suggests it is possible), it may be possible that when he went dragon, he “gave” the gift of his regenerative kagune to the washuu (or at least, they were the ones who somehow got it). that would explain rize’s kagune also being very regenerative, and why kaneki, with that rc type, could also go dragon
Oh, I was actually talking about Noroi a while back with some friends! The movie actually deals with a LOT of tropes from Japanese legends, folklore, etc, so it would probably be pretty easy to draw some lines between it and Tokyo Ghoul. Plus, Noroi just translates to “curse”, which I’m sure will become relevant to the story soon (especially now that we’re dipping our toes into all the crazy aging and OEK stuff).
HOWEVER:
Noroi is basically a Blair Witch-style documentary following a number of characters who’s lives (and deaths) overlap after coming into contact with paranormal forces; namely a demon called Kagutaba.
The movie is great, but ridiculously long and complex, so I can’t really delve into it too deeply without totally losing everyone (lol). But in the end it turns out that one of the characters– the “son” of a woman named Ishii, who stole the fetuses of illegal abortions she aided with– was indeed actually Kagutaba, and he was the one controlling his “mother” all along.
There’s a TON of interpretations you can draw to Tokyo Goul here in regards to Noro. We don’t know much about him, but it’s common belief that he was already long dead by the time we met him, and that he was probably not much more than a kagune-driven husk himself.
There’s also an old theory that’s been floating around about cordyceps (a strain of fungus that “possesses” its insect host) and how a kakuhou may function in a somewhat similar manner. Little Shiro originally mentioned it to Haise after struggling to maintain ownership over his own body, but it still suits the story carry on with that concept when TG uses so much insect iconography.
So, if you connect the dots here, it seems like Noro may have been “possessed” and kept moving by a kakuhou implanted into him by Eto (his “child”, like Ishii in Noroi).
And now the bodies pouring out of Kaneki’s kakuja might be subjected to a similar situation, hence the face that looks exactly like Kagutaba’s mask and why Furuta was talking about Dragon’s capabilities to create life.
Ps- I’ve been yelling about how Noro may have once been a OEK, and how the original OEK was probably a Washuu for a long, looong time now. These little husks could be a link between Kaneki and Noro.
But anyway, we’re just going to have to wait and see how it plays out 🙂
I’ve mentioned it before, but this all might mean that ghouls all age more rapidly than humans, but it’s not noticeable because the process is slowed down so vastly by their intake of regenerative RC cells.
If that’s so, it makes sense that the Garden kids are just ghouls who can’t (or are told they can’t) replenish RC cells. That’s why Furuta– who rarely fights and has a synthetic kakuhou– has black hair at the same age Arima’s was almost completely white.
Kaneki made a point when he said that his hair was going black again because he was eating regularly at the CCG and not expending any RC cells. The buildup allowed his hair to regenerate. It also explains why his hair went all black very rapidly after eating Eto’s kakuja (it was a massive influx) and completely white after Yamori and Arima (expending his stock too quickly).
And speaking of Eto, I wrote a meta a while ago about her ability as a sort-of “fountain of youth”. It seems like she has a gift of longevity (despite her comments about “getting old”), since her body is constantly replenishing herself on top of cannibalization.
Flowers grow on decomposed materials
She’s also able to “give” her “gift” to others, possibly by depositing parts of herself in others (like when she tore out Banjou’s ribs) and thereby giving them a huge boost in highly-concentrated RC cells.
She’s the opposite of what the Garden kids are.
Plus, the “medicine” being given to Okahira must be the same thing she was telling Amon about.
In essence, it takes tons of ghoul bodies ground down into a liquid to reach a concentration similar to Eto’s. It must be what’s keeping Okahira animated, as well as the black-cloaked V agents*
*Remember, Hirako said they’re like an “advanced” 0 Squad, but all clearly much older than Arima.
To create, you must first destroy.
The eggshell has to be broken for the life inside to be born, right? >:)c
So, according to Furuta, I wouldn’t be surprised if these little white-haired husks of the Oggai are able to come back if enough RC cells are pumped back into them. Like @mawjaw said, “death mirrored [the made-up kanji for Oggai] is life”. They do look a lot like yolks running from an eggshell imo.
And even if they don’t come back, this is the beginning of something new.
Hermeticism– the belief system that classical Tarot art is based on– states that the universe is ever being born and recreated on every plane of existence no matter how big or how small. There is no ultimate endings, only new beginnings and so on. Kaneki is Death on legs right now, but the fact that he’s ever-multiplying his stock of RC cells means he’s also the foundation for new life.
Wow, okay, I’ll do a little recap post because I mixed things up myself until fairly recently and I’ve been relying on different theories to explain, so I can understand that it’s not super clear. x)
From the look of things so far though, the whole theory is that it seems that there were two big conflicts relating to OEGs before Eto was born: one that led to the creation of the CCG and one that led to the creation of V.
So here goes:
1) 100+ years ago, a OEG appeared which led to the creation of the predecessor organization to the CCG:
My personal opinion is that this 100+ years old OEG is the “Nagaraj” that apparently destroyed the city Ayato found:
In Chapter 131, ‘Naagaraji’ ナァガラジ could be a reference to the Hindu mythology Nāgarāja “King of the nāga” (nāga meaning snakes) and also known in Japanese and Chinese mythology as one of the 8 great dragon kings. Among the Nāgarāja there is Vasuki, a snakegod in Indian mythology who was converted into a dragon king in Buddhism, then renamed “Washu-kichi”
和修吉(washukitsu) is just the assigned kanji for how Vasuki is pronounced in Japanese. Washuu only uses the first two kanji as a family name, and then whoever the successors are adds the last kanji from Vasuki to their given name.
(ex: Furuta Nimura => Washuu Kichimura)
…we can deduce a possible link between the Nagaraj and the Washuu family
Which would explain why the Washuus (who are ghouls) took the side of humans and created an organization in order to defeat him, even if we currently don’t know what happened and how it ended.
Personal opinion there again, but I’m not so sure this OEG is dead, especially since we learnt there is a way to “remain young” as a ghoul:
And also because there is one character that is associated to snakes, skeleton king and kitsune (kitsune being able to learn how to shape shift when they turn 100 years old).
I’m sure Ishida will tell us more about this at some point, because this OEG is linked to the creation of the CCG and will surely allow us to know about the Washuu family itself, but for now I believe that’s all we’ve got for this part.
2) However Kaneki’s side recently introduced a different OEG, the one who “almost destroyed the CCG” and who apparently** “built the 24th ward”:
And in order to defeat him, it seems that the “V” organization was created (?)…
…along with the development of quinque weapons…
…leading this OEG and his people to the 24th ward.
This OEG most likely was from a time around 50+ years ago (post WW2 if you would), which explains why Kaneki’s side thinks that he might still be around (even if old) to help them and why Ayato was sent down to finding that city.
However, this time, my personal opinion is that this OEG isn’t alive anymore…
Because it was Noro who, after being defeated by V, accepted to help Yoshimura with hiding Eto from them in the 24th ward and because
There is likely more to know about him and Eto’s childhood (and why Noro seemed to agree with Tatara’s plan to make the world “a society for ghouls”?) since Kaneki’s side currently is in the 24th ward anyway.
3) These two events led to the plot of TG
And mostly to Kanou experimenting to create OEGs…
because…
…he intends on breaking the equilibrium, which is why he allied with Aogiri Tree, an organization that wished to change things and make this a world for ghouls instead.
And that’s where we are in the timeline. 🙂
The Washuu family were the first who locked the world into a cage, by building an organization that would later become the CCG we know, because they wanted to defeat a OEG who was apparently threatening them or their position, as well as humans. Then V was created to defeat a second OEG and that’s when the lock on the twisted bird cage became sturdier…
because V became the peace keepers, the ones who strive to protect an “equilibrium” between humans and ghouls, making ghouls the predators and thus the danger to be fought against, all the while making sure that no new OEG would try to destroy the cage.
I don’t know yet the reason V allied with Furuta to turn against Washuu Tsuneyoshi (maybe it was because they found the Washuus weren’t as efficient as before at dealing with “issues” like Eto?), but the V organization most likely is the true villain in TG, the one Eto, Arima, Kanou, Kaneki and even Furuta were/are fighting against…
That’s the best summary I think I can give you so far, especially since there is likely to be more that we don’t know for now, so take everything with a grain of salt, especially the part about the possible two rebellions before the time of Eto, Arima, Furuta and Kaneki.
Finally, here are my thoughts as to what I think might happen after the current arc in the 24th ward. 🙂
I really hope it helps, feel free to say if anything is unclear. Have a nice day Anon!
Hello and sorry Anon, but I don’t recall such a thing?
There was this guy a hundred years ago:
And then Eto, who started to confront the CCG 13 years ago but with Arima as her counterpart playing the role of the OEK…
And then all of Kanou’s experiments (Kaneki, the twins, Amon, Takizawa) to end with, to this day, the Qs and the Oggai.
For now I don’t remember any other OEG, I even double checked with the wikia to be sure => [CCG] [OEGs] [Legendary OEG]. So unless I’m really missing something, I don’t see what you’re talking about (please remember that if your assumption comes from the anime, it’s not canon), sorry.
Have a nice weekend Anon. 🙂
EDIT: OMG MY MISTAKE!!
I apologize for my confusion Anon, you were absolutely right!
OMG, thanks for sharing this Anon, it’s true that I can now understand why there is a misunderstanding over this and that I was completely wrong, my bad!!
Honestly, now that you mentioned it, I remember being slightly “??” in ch128 over Nishiki’s timeline with “the OEG who almost destroyed the CCG” since it was only VERY roughly making it 100 years old:
but then I just assumed that, since the two info were brought by two different characters…
…the rebellion with “the legendary OEG” had only approximatelyhappened 100 years ago and that they were talking about the same thing.
However now that you Anons both brought it up, I realize that you’re right and that something is definitely off:
because on the one hand, we’ve got Eto talking about what seems to be “the CCG’s creation” 100+ years ago to defeat an extremely powerful OEG
that’s “the legendary OEG” mentioned by Eto in ch61.
and on the other, Nishiki talked about what seemed to be the creation of “V”, somewhere that sounds like it was earlier than 100 years ago
that’s the OEG who apparently created the 24th ward and he was mentioned by Kaneki in ch121 and Nishiki in ch128.
So…
yeah it makes sense that there were 2 OEGs: the one who started the whole thing 100 years ago (the legendary OEG) and who led to the creation of the CCG + the one who almost destroyed the CCG (the OEG who created the 24th ward) and who led to the creation of V.
And Kaneki’s side believes that the one who created the 24th ward (the second OEG) is still alive, which is who Ayato was searching for in that city below.
The question is who are they and which one is “the Nagaraj”?
I always had two candidates in mind for the role of who I thought was the only OEG before Eto: Noro and Uta. However, now that there very possibly were two OEGs before Eto, they might both fit for the roles.
When Noro died, all that was left was a skull:
so it’s possible he’s the legendary OEG because the skull meant he was at least 100 years old? => I’m being careful here tho, because we can’t be sure.
On the other hand, Yoshimura gave Eto to Noro in the 24th ward and Yoshimura was old enough to be of the same generation as the second OEG :
so maybe Noro was the second OEG and the creator of the 24th ward, which is why he took Eto (another OEG) under his care to protect her from V, the ones who had previously defeated him (and for whom Yoshimura used to work)
Which would leave Uta as the legendary OEG mentioned by Eto, the one who started the war 100 years ago:
Finally about the Nagaraj, we don’t know if he’s the OEG who created the 24th ward but we know he’s the one who apparently destroyed that city deep down:
Uwah, so many thoughts… Hopefully we will learn more about this from the kids Ayato will bring back (if Touka is still around to translate)! The best part kinda is that Kaneki’s side is looking for the second OEG, the one linked to V and to the 24th ward, when the one still alive probably is the legendary OEG who started the whole war (Uta?). xD
Again, I apologize for being really misleading with the timeline, especially to the first Anon. Truth be told, I’ve been stuck on the Roze arc in my rereading of :Re (I’m not fond of this arc :/) hence my confusion and writing off all of this as one event with an approximate timeline. Now I’m really excited to find out more, thanks to you two!
Thanks again for pointing this out! Have a nice weekend Anon. :))
Hello again Anon :3
Well, you’re the one who mentioned two OEGs in the first place. xD However, seeing the two distinct timelines we were given (one by Eto about “the CCG, 100+ years ago” and one by Nishiki about what seems to be “V, earlier than 100 years ago”), it seems to mean there were indeed 2 troublemakers before Eto.
I think that Ishida is definitely trying to confuse us though, probably because there is supposed to be an unexpected development somewhere, but I really can’t say where he intends on tricking us.
That’s why we can’t be sure of who did what, if they were really 2 or only one who attacked twice, and who “the Nagaraj” was. And that’s why I’m hoping the kids with Ayato…
will shed some light onto this specific plot point.
Anyway, no matter if there was one or two, or if Noro is one of the two or not, we’re definitely going to learn more about Eto’s childhood in the 24th ward at some point and surely about Noro as well…
So it seems Ishida still has quite a lot to tell us, hence why it’s hard to be sure of anything. x)
For now I’m vouching for two OEGs before Eto, with Noro being the one who built the 24th ward and welcomed Eto because of what had happened to him with V. When it comes to Uta, it’s trickier because so far the idea only rests on symbolism, but we’ll see. 🙂
Thanks again for passing by, I hope my answer did not disappoint this time! ^^
I’m still in the process of rereading TG but after the newest chapter I’m wondering if Eto really is the one who kept Noro “alive” all these years, as we all thought for a long time.
He was shown/said to eat a lot, always, and he’s from the 24th ward so many readers already suspected he could have a link to the previous OEG who took his kind underground + as a OEG himself it would make sense that he sheltered and protected Eto at her father’s demand.
Also, now that we know that eating/cannibalizing a lot helps ghouls with slowing down aging, at least when it comes to the physical appearance like Roma who’s 51 but looks like a teenager…
…maybe Noro used to eat a lot too because it was necessary to “keep young” and stay “alive” since as the previous OEG he would have been around 100 years old in the current timeline.
Him keeping a young appearance (at least) through eating a lot until he was killed could also explain why only a skull was left after his death.
TL;DR maybe Aogiri was the one who had the “underground king” with them, which makes sense, since they wanted to build a society for ghouls. Noro was the previous OEG/OEK, ruler of the 24th and the one that was referred to as the “Naagaraj” and, like Roma, he kept a young appearance for years despite being 100 years through eating/cannibalizing a lot, until he went all out against the Qs and only a skull was left as he died.
(Will edit if by rereading the series something is off with this theory. :))
Bringing this post back because, as she died, Roma’s face…
wrinkled, probably due to the fact that she was in reality over 50 years old.
So, since Noro when he died left only a skull, that means he was probably very old. Old enough to have known or been the previous OEK, ruler of the 24th ward, who lived a hundred years ago!
I’m still in the process of rereading TG but after the newest chapter I’m wondering if Eto really is the one who kept Noro “alive” all these years, as we all thought for a long time.
He was shown/said to eat a lot, always, and he’s from the 24th ward so many readers already suspected he could have a link to the previous OEG who took his kind underground + as a OEG himself it would make sense that he sheltered and protected Eto at her father’s demand.
Also, now that we know that eating/cannibalizing a lot helps ghouls with slowing down aging, at least when it comes to the physical appearance like Roma who’s 51 but looks like a teenager…
…maybe Noro used to eat a lot too because it was necessary to “keep young” and stay “alive” since as the previous OEG he would have been around 100 years old in the current timeline.
Him keeping a young appearance (at least) through eating a lot until he was killed could also explain why only a skull was left after his death.
TL;DR maybe Aogiri was the one who had the “underground king” with them, which makes sense, since they wanted to build a society for ghouls. Noro was the previous OEG/OEK, ruler of the 24th and the one that was referred to as the “Naagaraj” and, like Roma, he kept a young appearance for years despite being 100 years through eating/cannibalizing a lot, until he went all out against the Qs and only a skull was left as he died.
(Will edit if by rereading the series something is off with this theory. :))
I think I have some idea what this “medicine” actually is.
The closest thing we’ve had the resurrected ghoul investigators is probably Noro right? And one thing we know about Noro is the fact that he supposedly had to eat an “absurd” amount of food.
Judging by the fact it seems Kanou is somehow using Kakuhou to bring back and reanimate the dead, I’m guessing those Kakuhou must need an enormous amount of RC cells to keep the mortally wounded bodies running. Meaning the medicine is either some concentrated RC cell solution like the kind Sphinx had and the CCG uses or it’s just a nice way of saying they have to cannibalize a lot…
It would explain the need for high volume of dead ghouls outside of just Furuta being Furuta with Furuta-y plans.
Spiderliliesinmyeye commented on this post: Explains all of Noro’s clocks maybe? Had to be home in time for dinner/medicine time lmao.
Having being the first naturally born OEG. When you look at Rize it’s the same: she was depicted as having a very special Kagune even if she was born as a part of the sunlit garden initially before she ran away. And here’s the thing, the other ghouls with a special kagune are the Clowns, as we could see with Donato and Uta, but also Nico to some extent, and since it seems that the Clowns will be explained at the same time as V, I’m pretty sure there is a link there. So yeah, I’m wondering (2)
About an eventual pattern between V, who they recruit, why they wanted Rize back so bad, even the Washuus (who’s kagune we never saw, which could be for a specific reason), the Clowns’ even stranger abilities and I think maybe you found a part of the answer with your idea about Eto and Yoshimura. Sorry if that doesn’t make a lot of sense though but thanks for the great post! Have a nice day 🙂
Hi!
Yeah, that’s along the lines of what I was thinking, too. Yoshimura said the reason he was approached by V was just because he was very strong, but it’s not like he’s the only frightening kakuja out there, so I think it must be something else on top of that.
The Clowns and V are definitely working together through Furuta now, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s always been this way. Furuta said that the CCG has a history of dressing up organizations just to have an enemy to fight, and the Clowns were included on that list. It’s always been suspicious, for me, that “even Arima” had a “hard time” with their extermination. I get the feeling that certain members like Donato were given immunity, especially because he was so willingly a source of information while he was in Cochlea.
Oddly, I wonder if regenerative abilities like Yoshimura and Rize are put to use later on the members of V. Arima says the demi-humans die early, but Hirako stated that the crones were like “advanced” Garden members. They remind me a lot of Kanou’s Q’s and have the same automatic movements of Noro, so it almost feels like there’s been some kind of zomboid puppetry going on :O
Thank you for your answer, I’m glad that it made some sense. 🙂
Just on the matter of the Clowns’ annihilation and Donato’s jail time, I agree with you: the whole thing is fishy, because if V/the CCG had really tried to eradicate the Clowns’ gang (especially with Arima involved), then I don’t see why the remaining Clowns would have wanted anything to do with V in :Re (even if they are odd characters, so we can never be sure).
At the same time though, other investigators (like Hirako and Houji) were involved so if the whole thing was a set up, it was orchestrated quite well, especially since Donato’s own timeline is strange in regards to being a part of the Clowns’ gang (since he went to jail a few years before the Clowns’ annihilation took place and he’s presented as a boss, even if he never was called as such).
Anyway, between Itori being so knowledgeable on hybrid babies and Uta referring to himself as an outcast, it’s probably a safe bet to consider that the Clowns probably had a relation to V since the very beginning, maybe because of the weird kagune abilities that they showed in the last arc (I do wonder about Donato since he’s Russian and all though… unless there is a V equivalent in Russia, like there is an equivalent of the CCG in Germany).
Also, excellent point about the “advanced Garden members” like Kaiko, I hadn’t realized that they were a bit similar to Noro but I see what you mean. So maybe V does use special kagune abilities from certain ghouls to keep demi humans from the sunlit garden from dying early.
I’m not so surprised that Arima possibly lied about that to Kaneki though. I mean, he did also say that V/the Washuus “wanted to become more humans” but so far, we rather got hints of the opposite. Maybe he didn’t want to discourage Kaneki because being the OEK is a difficult task (and Eto didn’t mention anything either)…
Thanks again for your reply and sorry for rambling away!
Okay lemme expand on this crack theory a bit. Not only do I think Noro was a one-eyed ghoul, but possibly a former one-eyed king. Check it:
His missing eyes and nose were never explained.
All images of the original One Eyed King looked like a skull with his mouth covered. Revealing it exposed would be a dead giveaway that it was Noro if the lower half is intact.
Predicting that Kaneki would become a new King, Uta makes a mask with teeth as the focal point like Noro’s. Unzipping the mask causes the whole face to gape like Noro in death.
Noro was hiding in the 24th ward, where the OEK was rumored to originate from. Yoshimura also needed to put Eto in the care of someone who might understand her aka another OEG.
We also don’t know how Arima inherited the title of King. If he really did kill someone to get it, it would have to be someone we already know about. Noro was in his reach, and if he also wanted peace between humans and ghouls (as a OEG himself and a friend of Yoshimura’s), I see him as being willing to pass the title on to someone else.
Note the long hair and scar next to his left eye (the one Tatara said was wrong on Kaneki):
it’s a little different, but suspicious enough, especially with Noro’s eyes missing above and the second man’s eyes covered. Granted, the original OEK would have been too old to be Noro when he took Eto in, but it may have been passed down to him at some point.
Maybe he didn’t want to discourage Kaneki because being the OEK is a difficult task (and Eto didn’t mention anything either)…
midnight-in-town 