Gosh, not only did I just notice this, but I find that the words of both Itori and Nico, who are the only two Clowns we didn’t see fighting this time, are particularly meaningful to the parallel between the other Clowns.
Sooo very predictable coming from me but…. who’s “the second crown”?
There are still two unidentified OEGs in the timeline before Eto after all, so could it be in relation to that, and in that case since Donato was the first crown, could it mean that he was the first OEG/the One Eyed Washuu?
Or could he be talking about Uta who gave him the Crown mask in ch84 (which would mean that Uta “ruled" the Clowns before he did and was the second crown)?
Or was it maybe about Furuta, who put him in charge of the Clowns after ch98?
It seems hard to think that he could be talking about Roma since according to her in ch135 no one knew she was the founder, and besides, I think there is a difference between “founder” and “crown(s)”.
However, I have always wondered about that double page from ch98 (just above): Furuta who just became the Washuu King, was surrounded by V, Donato and Uta.
We know V is still in the game and now we found out that Donato was “being given the reigns of the Clowns from the second crown”, so… since Uta was also present alongside Furuta in ch98, could it mean that he was the second crown in charge until this moment precisely??? After all, Itori said:
At the same time, Nico is wayyy too much in the background (kinda like Itori) and their reaction just now…
…was rather interesting, unless it’s just supposed to be a throwback to TG ch163 (when they tried to stop Yamori because “a mother/parent should never be killed in front of their child”, it could apply here since Donato was dying in front of Amon…)?
Any thought? ‘Cause I’m lost. ;_;
okay so I wasn’t going to post about it, but then Spooky-chan said that she noticed too SO IMMA SHARE WITH Y’ALL
What if Nico is actually the first OEK/the One Eyed Washuu/the Nagaraj? Yeah basically, after Uta, Itori, Donato, it’s finally their turn to become a suspect!
l o o k, their kagune is similar to Dragon’s kakuja?
Besidesssss…
and
BTW, I’m aware Nico actually showed two kakugan during the Aogiri arc, buuuut so did Urie, Saiko and Hajime who are supposed to be similar to OEGs (without mentioning Kaneki whose kakugan didn’t even seem to activate at the end of the new chapter despite him getting ready to fight) so…. I’m not sure it’s to be taken as a hint that they can’t be a OEG, you know what I mean?
I love all the Clowns so I don’t care either way who’s the Chosen One, but CAN SENSEI JUST TELL US ALREADY
@super-peace-fufu-boy I totally want to facepalm myself right now xD because you’re absolutely right! Since I initially was thinking about whether “second crown” could be an allusion to the timeline and the two OEGs before Eto or not, I blanked on this and didn’t consider there might be more than just two “crowns”.
But you’re spot on! From the way Donato put it, it does seem like he’s in fact the third Clowns’ leader. The question now is, who are the previous two? Roma and Furuta? Because Roma is the founder and she died at 51 years old, the gang can’t be older than 40 years max…
At the same time, Roma said no one knew she was the founder so… idk about her being the first leader?
One “crown” before Donato could be the one who was in charge during the Clowns’ annihilation against Arima, Houji and Hirako (approximately ten/twelve years ago, around the time Uta and Yomo became friends)…
And if they’re not the same person, then the second "crown” probably was the one who led the Clowns during TG and :Re up until Donato was freed. This one could either
be
Uta (from ch143 & he gave the Crown mask to Donato) or Furuta (Uta mentioning a boss in :Re ch31.5 & the last pages of ch98), I think?
Ah gosh, I can’t wait to find out. xD Thanks for pointing my mistake out, it’s my bad! ^3^
Interesting how the strings we can see are kinda similar in these two panels, especially when Donato was referred to as “Crown” before and since there is a lot of symbolism associated to him being a OEG (+ same topic, “love”, in both panels).
I know that there is a lot of discussion about Donato being the Nagaraj right now, but ch151 at least seems to contradict that idea (just my opinion, obviously we could be trolled by Sensei and he could make that panel about Donato instead of possibly Uta), even if this doesn’t really matter since it was said that there were 2OEGs before Eto in the timeline anyway.
EDIT: tho’ I guess that seeing Sasaki’s puffy hairstyle compared to Kaneki’s, the One Eyed Washuu could be considered to be a younger Donato with black straight hair, his current beard hiding the mole on his chin (in that case he would be half Russian/half Japanese then?).
I guess we’ll see. :3
the weird thing is that both Uta and Donato are associated with the Hindu myth about Vasuki/the Nagaraj/etc so I’m just not sure about who’s who, with all the possibilities. I mean, there is this exchange…
*sigh*
so I’m not buying the red herrings about either of them (tho’ that wouldn’t have to stop Sensei obviously): Sensei hinted a lot about both of them, Itori and Nico are also still mysterious and suspicious in their own ways so there IS something up about all of the Clowns.
SIGHHHHHHHHHHHHH
i’m just tired SENSEI STOP WITH ALL THE HINTS/RED HERRINGS OR WHATEVER, i’m about to go insane…
Assuming Editor-san’s line is actually relevant this time, I’m just super excited about the prospect of knowing more for different reasons.
First of all, the one who founded the Clowns was Roma, but she also said that…
…the others might not know it was her. Whether she meant Itori, Uta, Nico, Donato and Furuta or small fries who joined the gang, that’s not certain. As a side note, the “grand party” she’s talking about might be referring to the conflict between the second OEG of the timeline and V, since we know Roma ended up being defeated by Tsuneyoshi in his youth.
Anyway, if the others really don’t know Roma was the founder though, then it may mean that…
the reason they all ended up joining is not necessarily closely related to Roma’s own reasons for founding the gang (which mainly was fearing getting bored), which is logical if Roma actually was the youngest out of them all (not counting Furuta) and even if Itori’s description of the Clowns does encompass Roma too.
Secondly, in the new chapter, Donato said this…
… just before Itori rambled about their group while watching Yomo and Uta fight, and precisely as Kaneki was meeting with Furuta.
In other words, it’s a perfect lineup to understand what’s exactly linking all of the remaining Clowns and why they finally decided to step forward onto the stage after (what was implied to be) so many years of staying in the background and pretending to be the audience.
In fact, we even got a little hint a while ago that the Clowns had some sort of leading figure who had a plan about Kaneki, thanks to Uta:
And while I’m aware that Uta is a real troll and taking him seriously shouldn’t happen, at the same time, it still makes sense for Uta to have been talking about Furuta in ch31.5.
After all, the Clowns are currently playing for time for Furuta, they helped him overthrow the main Washuu family, they followed his directions during the Clowns’ raid arc, etc, and besides, Roma also said this in ch135:
…which is a direct throwback to the current arc, since Furuta purposely recreated a situation (using Kaneki amongst others) that paralleled what had happened with the Nagaraj 100 years ago because he seemed to have been seeking the same results.
In other words, either the “raison d’être” of the Clowns is directly linked to Furuta’s goal of “super peace” or, more simply, Furuta offered them a way to “keep cracking jokes on stage so that they wouldn’t go crazy”, which is why they’re helping him.
Personally
I’d rather buy the latter than the former, even if we’ll see next week, because Uta expressed that he didn’t understand “his boss”
more than once…
…which would mean that he probably doesn’t understand the finality of his goal either, so whether there is “super peace” or not, Uta literally doesn’t care.
Then again it’s logical, since we already know why Uta is in it thanks to ch116 (”I’ve always been quite the reprobate and that’s why I want to stay in the thick of it. Because it’s lonely on the edges”). That’s why he can still refer to Kaneki as a “special customer” and kinda root for him, even if he’s currently helping with Furuta’s plan, because ultimately he’s only after fun.
Same for Roma, which is another example making me think that Furuta simply gave the Clowns a reason to look forward cracking more jokes on stage to avoid going crazy because…
and mostly, we know that if “super peace” is really about Furuta turning humans into ghouls, well, Roma would also give 0 fuck about it:
I’d also say same for Nico for similar reasons as Roma:
because “a society with ghouls at the very center” (Aogiri’s goals) looks to be what Furuta is after as well (if you forget that the toxin in higher rate is also dangerous to ghouls).
For Itori and Donato, it’s slightly trickier. Donato denied being the same as Uta in ch116, because he’s not “as sentimental” as him, while also having a past that’s made of constantly being deprived of what he held dear:
…so whether he’s like the others (cracking jokes to avoid going crazy) or truly looking forward to “super peace” (like V, I guess?) is not so evident, at least to me. Whichever allows him to get “another place of tranquility”, maybe?
Finally, about Itori, she’s a complex one too, but I wouldn’t be surprised if what she said about the Clowns was literally the last shield she had to herself:
…which would mean that every joke is really nothing but a way to counter going crazy out of being tired of despairing. After all, there always seemed to be an existing contrast in her words and attitude, as if to imply that she isn’t sure where she stands:
using Kaneki as a toy to get info vs still giving him genuine heartfelt advice;
calling the Clowns “the ones who’d watch this play come to an end from the box seats” vs “the ones cracking jokes on stage to avoid going crazy”;
having a mask that’s hinting at a strong/deadly/rampaging ghoul when she was never ever seen fighting (and doesn’t even seem to enjoy it?)
TL;DR the Clowns all have sad backstories, that’s for sure, so when it comes to how their (personal or collective) “raison d’être” aligns with Furuta’s plans, it may not be with Furuta’s goal of “super peace” directly (rather I think that’s V, except maybe for Donato, tho’ I’m not sure), but because he’s providing them with more occasions to seek what they enjoy or feel so lonely about.
Sorry for rambling,
keep in mind that it’s just my take on it and for all I know it’s going to be wrong next week, but still
I hope it made sense. I’m just loving these chapters. xD
Unless I can’t recall for Furuta and Nico we have yet to see them expand on their own wish from ch143 but it will most likely be expanded on soon since every Clown or so is involved in the three battles currently going on.
cw: discussion of gender identity, homophobia, transphobia
Oh nuh-uh, this isn’t a weird question at all, Nico’s gender is still something I’m not too sure about. I wanna preface this by saying that I’m cis so please don’t be afraid to call me out if anything I say is upsetting or offensive, and feel free to add to this with more informed thoughts. I use ‘they/them’ pronouns when referring to Nico and I take them to be non-binary.
Based on a couple of things, it’s been my understanding that Nico primarily identifies as male – just as an example, they specifically tell Yomo they’re a man rather than a woman (credit to @randomthoughtpatterns for this translation):
Itori also claims that they’re “only a man in the face” which would suggest to me that Nico might be a trans man* (this would be a really problematic thing to say imo but I’m not Japanese and I’m conscious that social/cultural differences affect how these things are received, and each translation is obviously coloured by the experiences and understanding of the translator):
Homophobic slurs have been used in reference to them several times (by Itori here, by Ayato, by Seidou… also by Yamori I think?) and they’ve always suggested Nico is mlm. They never seem to challenge this.
That said, they were featured in the @tgcalendar2016 for ‘Okama Day’, which I’ve also seen translated as Transgender Day:
As far as I know, ‘okama’ is a pretty broad umbrella term which includes people with various sexual and gender identities; people who are gay or bi, people who are trans, people who are gender non-conforming, cross dressers, even cis men who behave in ways which are traditionally coded as feminine. I think it’s often used as a derogatory slur (this seems to be how Yomo uses the term in the omake) but people in the LGBTQ community reclaim it, similarly to the word ‘queer’. Please correct me if I’m wrong!
Ishida also includes Nico in the calendar’s female character series:
Aaaaand, Furuta refers to them as ‘nee-san’ (big sister) which, again, Nico seems totally fine with:
So, yeah, I think it’s pretty normal to be confused and I’m not surprised to see that people have different interpretations. I think non-binary.
* I checked the TG Wiki and it lists Nico’s sex as male but there wasn’t a source linked. This is usually listed in the character profiles that come with each volume, and I’m pretty sure Nico’s is in volume 7, but I couldn’t find it to double check, sorry!
Concerning the wiki, we looked to Japanese LGBT sources and one of our Admin’s familiarity with the Japanese language.
In Japan, people in general still consider Drag Queens, Gay men, and Transwomen to be the same thing. The terms are used interchangeably, particularly when it relates to fictional stuff. So there is a lot of confusion when it comes to translating these things for Western audiences.
Nico is an excellent example of this blurring of different categories, based on the typical language and ideas assigned to the LGBT community by the average Japanese person.
Okama Day is a good example of how most of Japanese society if out of sync with the different types of LGBT people. It was decided without any sort of consultation of the LGBT community, mashing together all the different types in a fairly offensive manner. There have been efforts to change this, because it is considered insulting to the LGBT community.
Feminine terms such as “Neesan” are commonly used in the Gay community, and do not indicate someone identifies as a woman. Both Drag performers and flamboyant gay men use it to refer to each other, while Transwomen may shy away from these terms associated with gay men.
I would hesitate to call Japan “behind” the Western world in terms of LGBT issues, because it is a different culture with its own history and pre-Colonial ideals. It doesn’t quite match up neatly to Western LGBT politics, and makes it really hard to translate across cultures and languages.
Nico’s portrayal is pretty standard for a flamboyant gay man in Japanese media. This includes using feminine terms, and being called an “Okama” by others. It’s a stereotype, one that persists in Japanese media and causes a lot of confusion for us Westerners that know the difference between gay dudes and transwomen.
“Okama are men; they may or may not crossdress, they may or may not use make-up, they use stylized female speech and female gestures, but they don’t identify as women. I mean, going back to Tokyo Ghoul, you can call Nico “girl”, just as some gay men call each other “girl”, but if you seriously call him a woman or transgender, you’d be insulting him and perpetuating harmful stereotypes.”
Hello! Well, to be honest, I’m not so sure we will get so much focus on Nico, for reasons I already explained here.
Of course we will get a backstory (since Roma got one) and a few explanations, but this late in the plot, whatever answers we will get will be related to what’s left to find out about V, the Washuus, ghoul biology and possibly what happened 100 years ago, but in my opinion that’s it.
Same for Itori and Uta, still in my opinion. Just keep in mind that their agenda seems to go beyond just Furuta’s plans, they have other goals in life than fulfilling whatever it is that Furuta wants to achieve, so I doubt we will see these three go all out and fight like Roma did (or like Donato or Furuta might do soon).
Besides, we already saw Nico fight…
and again, there wasn’t a lot of focus given to it, so I’d say this won’t go further than that this time again.
midnight-in-town 