Gosh, not only did I just notice this, but I find that the words of both Itori and Nico, who are the only two Clowns we didn’t see fighting this time, are particularly meaningful to the parallel between the other Clowns.
One thing I don’t get is that the Washuus are the ones who allied with the old CCG to take the One Eyed Washuu down 100 years ago
and then they created V when the second OEG of the timeline showed up??
It was even around the same time as (or just before) they developed quinques for human investigators:
So when did the change of power take place? When did the Washuus become a part of V (as Furuta explained in ch101) and when did V start having the upper hand when they were initially supposed to be the Washuus’ creation?
Unless V really existed before the Washuus, but then it would contradict some stuff that was said in previous chapters, I’m just ????? lost?
EDIT: never mind, @linkspooky pointed out to me that we’re probably supposed to read the scene as followed
This little part that Kaiko is thinking…
meaning that he’s simply still super mad that his pal Kuzen left V behind for Ukina and Eto all these years ago.
TL;DR the Washuus still created V in order to defeat the second OEG of the timeline who threatened to overthrow the CCG just after WWII:
now if I could just know who this gal/dude is that’d be nice
I’ve also been thinking that the Washuu became a part of V around when the second OEK appeared. Maybe V is an amalgamation of various influential families, primarily consisting of ghouls. As a part of V these families are producing soldiers in the form of half-humans for the organization. One hint suggesting that there might be other Washuu-like families elsewhere, is Shao. She’s a half-human who was born in Taiwan, but was sent to Japan’s CCG from an external source. I hope that makes sense.
@donatoporpora yeah, excellent point about Hsiao or even Germany, which has always been referred to as the #1 partner of the CCG (and both organizations belonging in V could explain this partnership). We also still don’t know why Donato (who is Russian) was hanging around in Japan (not that there has to be a specific reason but eh).
That’s why the idea of a part 3 targeting a more international scale of TG’s world always sounded interesting (iirc Middle East was also mentioned by Yoshimura and there was also the link between the Rosewald and Tsukiyama families), even if I doubt that it’s ever going to happen by now.
In the end, it depends if V is really just Washuu/Japan-centered or if there might be a real international side to it (Taiwan and Germany at least) and I can envision both possibilities honestly. For example, maybe Hsiao could simply be born because at some point Tsuneyoshi visited Taiwan and had a fling with her mom, which is why she then joined the sunlit garden. Just like it could be what you said. 🙂
What we were told is that initially V seemed to be sunlit garden-only, but then they slowly opened their ranks to other strong ghouls (like Yoshimura)
which is why V now represents an organization that is encompassing the Washuu family and the sunlit garden (and why they can afford to get rid of the Washuus).
So maybe the same thing happened internationally, as in, the Washuus created V around WWII but then V slowly expanded over the years and ended having affiliations in other countries (Germany, Taiwan…).
Since it really seems the Washuus created V to defeat the second OEG of the timeline though, then I’ll stick with this timeline until we’re given more info. :3
You guys ever wondered about how Vincent seemed to find perfectly normal that UT would try super hard to bring him back in the extra chapter?? Especially since that sentence “love is wonderful thing but it can also give birth to horrific disaster” could be meant for either the twins or UT @ the P family?
……Btw did I mention this super crack theory I once had that Frances was the one who burnt down the manor 4 years ago somehow? I mean, I 99.9999% doubt it’s really the case but just humor me for the sake of crazy thoughts™.
We know UT apparently wondered about bringing the dead back, or at least about editing the cinematic records, before he even deserted:
So if he already had something like the bizarre doll project in mind before Vincent was even dead (to bring back the people represented by his lockets for example), and if Vincent
somehow
knew about UT’s plan to bring back his mom or even him should something happen…
Then if he told his sister about this detail, Frances showing up on December 14th for one reason or another (since Ann was coming too) could have rescued Tanaka before setting the manor on fire so that…
UT wouldn’t be able to bring back her brother. (I’m aware that
burning her home or her brother’s dead body + Rachel’s appears awful and heartless of her, but frankly I can also see how the thought of her dead family being brought back could motivate her if she believed UT was mad enough to attempt it)
I know that we’re 27 volumes in and we have 0 idea about if UT and Frances even know each other (though everything about their respective character implies that Frances would probably despise UT if they do), but we know that Frances really cares about her family and that she and Vincent were close siblings.
Ch132 even hint that she seemed as aware as Vincent that he wouldn’t live a long life, most likely because they both had their mother’s example in mind (or even simply because they were realistic), but we don’t know what else she might be aware of or not.
Personally I like to think that she and Tanaka are 100% on the same side and mainly that he keeps her updated about how Ciel is doing so that she won’t step into her nephew’s life too much…
and since it appears Tanaka was aware about the twin coming back, I’m not sure, but maybe UT’s plan of bringing back the P family one by one because “he simply cannot bear to lose another Phantomhive” was not an entirely new idea before the Campania arc for some characters.
As I said tho’ it is pure crack, because for now it makes more sense that Frances was at home on December 14th + that the supernatural being who attacked the manor was the one who started the fire (either accidentally or not, à la Seb), but I felt like sharing, especially since we have yet to see any reaction from Frances about what happened 4 years ago and that’s fishy for me. :3
(also that could explain why Vincent was chilling and apparently totally aware that UT was trying to bring him back no matter what in ch107.5)
This is just in case we actually start to get to the bottom of this arc in this month’s upcoming chapter. Here’s a list starting with ch108, but feel free to add in case you think I possibly forgot something!
Last update: 12/12
Ch108: what is that weird liquid that UT gave to the twin and why did he say “it’s still too early for you to wake up”?
About Bravat himself: is he a charlatan, or is he a scientist maybe?
He’s human and didn’t use to be a good deviner (ch143)
Also did he really see through Seb’s disguise or was this all pretending too?
He confirmed that he sensed Seb was different at first glance! (ch145)
ch112: how many times did Lizzie give some of her blood to Lord Canopus?
ch113: what did Lizzie mean when she was crying about “not being able to save the twin”? Save him from who or what?
it was most likely about not having the same blood type ‘cause they don’t know about universal recipients (ch144)
ch114/119: about blood transfusions => who mastered the procedure? Does it serve a purpose outside the 4 or 5 star lords (like war, as Wolfram pointed out)? How does it play into making more “perfect” bizarre dolls?
Is it why real!Ciel “grew up” despite dying 4 years ago?
How come no one knows that AB (sirius) is the universal recipient type?
ch114: Othello and “50 years ago” => is this old case relevant to the current arc somehow? Or is it just related to UT’s desertion?
Othello and UT know each other = confirmed (ch142)
ch115: about the twin’s damaged arms that we can see => is it because he’s dependent on blood transfusions?
ch116: is there a reason Nina was chosen by the sect to make all the outfits? Could it be because “the Hopkins tailors have outfitted generations of the Phantomhive family” (and “it’s all for the blue star” who’s the twin)?
ch117: why are the rooms for the 4 or 5 star lords so different? Is it supposed to remind them of their previous environment/social condition when they were still alive?
ch119: Any chance that us finding out about Wolfram having the B blood type (same as Lizzie) will be relevant later? To transfuse Lizzie maybe?
still ch119: was Othello speaking about UT when he said “that one didn’t know much about this stuff… who else is there?”? If so, then can another supernatural being be involved with the sect?
ch123: we found out that Lord Sirius is real!Ciel, but what about the other star lords’ identity? Are they possibly characters we already met (and who died)?
ch124: how/when did Bravat/the blue sect came to know and dialyze those old lords from the Parliament?
About the blue sect: any possible link to the Aurora society or even the mysterious Osiris company?
Also if UT is really the only mastermind behind this, then why the change of method between the Weston arc and now, when he called Agares a masterpiece?
ch125: what’s the point of making a second music hall in Bath? Or is it just a false lead, because it was just the place where Bravat would dialyze the old lords?
ch126: was the twin wearing an eyepatch when he came to attack Agni and Soma? If no, did Soma just fail to notice the difference with our!Ciel?
ch127: who killed Agni? Is it Polaris, the “blue star’s butler”, or is it someone else? Also is he human or a supernatural being, since Agni commented that his killer was really strong?
ch128: what was the purpose of the attack on Soma and Agni? Leaving our!Ciel a message (”who stole the candy from my tummy”)? Or simply the twin being jealous (since Soma does call himself Ciel’s “big brother”)? Something else related to the curry arc maybe, since Ciel made sure Scotland Yard wouldn’t get to Agni?
ch129: Did Ciel leave the pieces of the photo with Soma when they took him to Sieglinde? Will Sieglinde manage to convince Soma that our!Ciel is not the one who attacked him (since he’s the one who brought Soma + especially since she saw our!Ciel has the contract’s seal in his right eye)?
ch129: between the dead lords from the Parliament in ch125 and Violet probably giving the name “Ciel Phantomhive” for the blue star’s identity to Scotland Yard, will our!Ciel get in big troubles and accused of all that Bravat did in this arc?
Yes, he was for a good part of it (ch143)
where are the Double Charles?
ch129: since the servants initially thought the twin was our!Ciel, did they not notice the possible absence of Sebastian by his side? Or do we have a doppelgänger for Seb too?
ch130: how comes Tanaka didn’t appear very surprised about the twin’s return? Could he have known in advance? But if so, who told him and why? (additional question: was it foreshadowed in ch120?)
Also, how and when did Tanaka find out about our!Ciel taking his brother’s identity? Could this be related to him knowing the twin was coming back?
@paradoxhamartia WAIT, what if this is (partially) related to Eto’s gift from the Roze arc????
She possibly knew what Kanou was after (with Dragon and all, just like Arima knew about Furuta’s plan apparently), so WHAT IF this is the reason Kaneki can now go all out as an ukaku (which would also explain the owl pattern on his torso, I agree)????
I’ve got quite a lot to say about this chapter, some things I ranted about yesterday already, but for now let me just say that this cliffhanger is something I’ve been waiting for a long time, but I hope we get explanations about the current arc before UT starts spilling the beans about why he’s so attached to this family (though most of us already have a few ideas in mind).
I also want to say that this won’t end well, again with no surprise. I’m positive that UT is extremely interested in saving Ciel from Seb…
(he’s probably the one who told Bravat to say that)
…and there is a big chance he thinks that, because the twins were so close, real!Ciel being back might help with separating
his brother
from Seb.
However, the most crucial point is that UT is also doing all of this for himself (”I simply could not bear to lose another Phantomhive”), which is clearly biasing him about how clinging onto your dead loved ones isn’t a good method of coping and won’t be one for our!Ciel either.
Honestly, it’s probably going to be the arc UT fails/fucks up for the first time in the story: he’s so focused on the idea that he can’t bear to lose more of the Phantomhive family that it’s blinding him to why bringing back the twin wasn’t a good idea. It shows through:
Lizzie being depressed for several months
Ciel feeling horrible right now
real!Ciel most likely not being 100% okay in the head
the attack against Soma and Agni (I mean, true, UT probaly doesn’t care about them, but it heavily factors into awful how Ciel must feel right now).
I’m just saying, wanting to save our!Ciel from Seb is one thing, but it should have included not attacking our!Ciel’s very few friends. Maybe that means UT doesn’t have a lot of control over the twin (who probably attacked Soma and Agni out of jealousy?), which is the same as having already fucked up anyway.
Finally, yet another argument about UT being biased, but if the RCMT is true, then it means UT ignored the possibility that real!Ciel was partially responsible for Vincent’s death (if he saw his cinematic record?) and brought him back anyway and that is… messed up.
TL;DR if the current arc is all about UT not moving on, then it’s going to slap him back in the face and frankly? He’d deserve it, and I say that as a big fan of his.
Hey so I received a few questions and I realized maybe I had not been clear on something.
When I say that UT deserves that this whole arc gets thrown back to his face, I mean it as ‘he’s lying to himself if he’s trying to justify any of this and I hope he’ll realize/admit it because otherwise the wakeup call will be tough/he’ll keep on making the same mistakes until he ceases to exist”.
I’m not going to deny it, it’s easy to feel for UT: we more or less all have a good idea as to why he’s so bent on “not losing another Phantomhive” + he’s a cool and handsome character, so it’s natural to want to pat him on the shoulder and say “there there, plz don’t cry”.
However, there is a difference between excusing his actions so far by pointing out he’s feeling lonely and miserable vs acknowledging his grief all the while saying that his way is definitely wrong. And the same goes for him in the story.
Maybe it will make more sense if I use another example: so take Frances or Tanaka. Whatever happened to Claudia, whether she was killed to or not (we might find out soon apparently), the fact something horrible happened to Vincent and his family would have been enough to justify Tanaka and/or Frances going on a vendetta.
Now it’s obviously super hard to be sure where Frances is concerned because she doesn’t exist in the plot, but still, does these two having reasons to wish for revenge automatically mean they ought to go after it? Nope, obviously not and you can be sure that if it were the case, it would be narratively depicted to be a wrong decision (the way it is with Ciel’s revenge, through Seb waiting to eat his soul mainly, once he’ll be done).
So it’s the same for UT and that’s what I meant to convey: UT’s way is wrong, there is 0 doubt about it (and if you need a proof, look at Agni’s murder, Lizzie constantly crying or even how much Ciel is shaking in the new chapter), but even then, it’s about whether the character acknowledges that his choices have bad consequences or not.
If UT’s way to go about the current arc is going to be summed up as “I can do what I want because I have reasons to act this way, thus you can’t stop me”, then this leads to why I’m hoping this arc will turn out to be a giant slap to his scarred face (=> he’ll be forced to realize he fucked up).
On the other hand, if UT shows that he’s already aware that the current arc is fucked up on many aspects but that he doesn’t care because he just wants to feel better (or if he admits that bringing back the twin is entirely selfish and for his own sake), well, at least that shows he’s aware of his actions, even if they’re wrong.
It’s subtle, I know, but I find that UT lying to himself vs showing awareness creates a lot of differences for him as a character and for what we might expect of the rest of the arc. That’s it, sorry for rambling!
And I can’t help but wonder if the reason Furuta himself is seeking “super peace” might not be because of how the Washuu family was extremely anti-ghoul, even regarding its own blood.
I mean, you’ve got what Arima said…
what Rize (?) said…
what Kanou said…
Even Arima’s wish was apparently a society primarily made of ghouls, which so far seems to be what “super peace” was described to be, so maybe it’s all about the irony that V wanted to throw back to the main Washuu family’s face (even if only Matsuri remains)?
The Washuu family were ghouls (kakuja from birth even), but at some point within the last 100 years for a reason yet unknown, they tried to become more human, so how about “the inferior bred” (the sunlit garden++) changes the rules and make ghouls at the center of society instead (as some kind of pay back for how badly they were treated)?
That could also explain why the Clowns are helping him:
Sooo very predictable coming from me but…. who’s “the second crown”?
There are still two unidentified OEGs in the timeline before Eto after all, so could it be in relation to that, and in that case since Donato was the first crown, could it mean that he was the first OEG/the One Eyed Washuu?
Or could he be talking about Uta who gave him the Crown mask in ch84 (which would mean that Uta “ruled" the Clowns before he did and was the second crown)?
Or was it maybe about Furuta, who put him in charge of the Clowns after ch98?
It seems hard to think that he could be talking about Roma since according to her in ch135 no one knew she was the founder, and besides, I think there is a difference between “founder” and “crown(s)”.
However, I have always wondered about that double page from ch98 (just above): Furuta who just became the Washuu King, was surrounded by V, Donato and Uta.
We know V is still in the game and now we found out that Donato was “being given the reigns of the Clowns from the second crown”, so… since Uta was also present alongside Furuta in ch98, could it mean that he was the second crown in charge until this moment precisely??? After all, Itori said:
At the same time, Nico is wayyy too much in the background (kinda like Itori) and their reaction just now…
…was rather interesting, unless it’s just supposed to be a throwback to TG ch163 (when they tried to stop Yamori because “a mother/parent should never be killed in front of their child”, it could apply here since Donato was dying in front of Amon…)?
Any thought? ‘Cause I’m lost. ;_;
okay so I wasn’t going to post about it, but then Spooky-chan said that she noticed too SO IMMA SHARE WITH Y’ALL
What if Nico is actually the first OEK/the One Eyed Washuu/the Nagaraj? Yeah basically, after Uta, Itori, Donato, it’s finally their turn to become a suspect!
l o o k, their kagune is similar to Dragon’s kakuja?
Besidesssss…
and
BTW, I’m aware Nico actually showed two kakugan during the Aogiri arc, buuuut so did Urie, Saiko and Hajime who are supposed to be similar to OEGs (without mentioning Kaneki whose kakugan didn’t even seem to activate at the end of the new chapter despite him getting ready to fight) so…. I’m not sure it’s to be taken as a hint that they can’t be a OEG, you know what I mean?
I love all the Clowns so I don’t care either way who’s the Chosen One, but CAN SENSEI JUST TELL US ALREADY
@super-peace-fufu-boy I totally want to facepalm myself right now xD because you’re absolutely right! Since I initially was thinking about whether “second crown” could be an allusion to the timeline and the two OEGs before Eto or not, I blanked on this and didn’t consider there might be more than just two “crowns”.
But you’re spot on! From the way Donato put it, it does seem like he’s in fact the third Clowns’ leader. The question now is, who are the previous two? Roma and Furuta? Because Roma is the founder and she died at 51 years old, the gang can’t be older than 40 years max…
At the same time, Roma said no one knew she was the founder so… idk about her being the first leader?
One “crown” before Donato could be the one who was in charge during the Clowns’ annihilation against Arima, Houji and Hirako (approximately ten/twelve years ago, around the time Uta and Yomo became friends)…
And if they’re not the same person, then the second "crown” probably was the one who led the Clowns during TG and :Re up until Donato was freed. This one could either
be
Uta (from ch143 & he gave the Crown mask to Donato) or Furuta (Uta mentioning a boss in :Re ch31.5 & the last pages of ch98), I think?
Ah gosh, I can’t wait to find out. xD Thanks for pointing my mistake out, it’s my bad! ^3^
midnight-in-town 