So I was thinking about this and its possible repercussions in the current arc, i.e what Lizzie may still do before the arc ends.
I know this might not please everyone, since she’s often targeted by criticism, but she’s still a huge part of the arc (and of our!Ciel’s life) and Sensei dedicated an entire chapter recently to how she’s feeling, so you can bet it’s going to matter. 😀
Anyway, when you look at Lizzie in ch58, what she’s describing regarding the twins are two opposite dynamics:
when it comes to real!Ciel, she expresses passivity => she’s the one being protected
and when it comes to our!Ciel, she expresses activity => she’s the one who protects
Granted that this shouldn’t be taken too literally because she indirectly protected real!Ciel by fighting against Seb in ch117, just like our!Ciel protected her in ch14 for example, but this may still be interesting to consider the next developments.
After all, even though she did fight against Seb to stop him from investigating the labs, otherwise she’s been rather powerless when it comes to real!Ciel’s situation…
…or to what he (and UT) did in the current arc, which fits the passive dynamic.
Similarly, where real!Ciel telling her that he found strong women scary (when they were kids) is what led her to think she should be protected by him, the Campania arc happening 3 years after she decided that she would protect our!Ciel gave her the opportunity to reveal her true self to him…
…which is something that he accepted and he didn’t think any less of her after that (even when she almost kicked him in the face in ch107 xD).
So back to the current arc, where is this difference of dynamics supposed to lead Lizzie? Especially now that she’s freed from real!Ciel and the blue sect (who most likely didn’t give her a single chance to figure out why our!Ciel would even lie in the first place)?
Most importantly, if the current arc so far had Lizzie being passive because she was by real!Ciel’s side, now that she’s left him, can we expect that she takes on a more active role, especially considering how she’s not even pissed at our!Ciel but just super confused and blaming herself?
In any case, I think a little detour by home is a great thing because her family always supported her and also taught her how to be strong. And, I don’t know if Frances’ current absence so far is supposed to play a role in helping Lizzie realize on which side she wants to be, but it might (especially if Frances already knows about our!Ciel lying and since Sensei said that Lizzie took her mom as a role model).
My personal opinion is that if Lizzie eventually decides that her place is by our!Ciel’s side (which I think is likely to happen for many reasons), then I bet you that she’ll most likely become very active again in striving to protect him, even from her original fiancé (aka taking up the sword again and fight like a badass).
EDIT: forgot to mention but there is still that random info that Sieglinde now understands how blood transfusions work + that Wolfram has got the same blood type as Liz => could be a hint that she might get hurt because she’s going to choose our!Ciel.
I just love
the way Sensei in ch144 is kinda deconstructing everything that she slowly revealed about Lizzie in ch58.
It doesn’t mean that Lizzie is in need of a clear-cut change, she already had that change during the Campania arc when our!Ciel acknowledged that “what she’s made of” was nothing shameful…
So that basis of her character is still going strong, because it took such a long time for her to fully be proud of it and there is indeed nothing wrong with it. That’s also why it makes sense that later in the arc she goes back to this state of mind, in my opinion.
In fact, it’s the passivity and powerlessness that she showed towards the twin that proves to be in clear contradiction with “what she’s made of”.
In any case, she has been wearing the low-heeled shoes throughout the arc (there is even a clear emphasis on them when she shows up in ch142), so where we are right now, maybe she needs another of her mother’s lessons (in case Frances did know about everything from the beginning) before she will decide to take up her swords again, with which to protect our!Ciel. 🙂
BTW I still can’t get over the fact that Sorachi-sensei gave us the Love Potion arc, because it’s one of the best written comedy arcs of the whole series: I love how you can either take it at face value and say it doesn’t mean anything, or you can try to see a little beneath the surface and acknowledge how meaningful it is on some aspects, just like all the other comedy arcs.
Knowing how popular and famous Gintama is, it’s logical that Sorachi-sensei will never voice a clear position about which ships he probably has a soft spot for, but it’s not like he gave an arc or several to all the possible ships of Gintama. And I’m not talking just about GinTsu.
For example, is it really a coincidence that the other ship getting a lil’ focus in this arc is the love triangle Kondo/Otae/Kyuubei? Is it? Considering the Dekobokko arc or even, later, Kyuubei’s own resolution along with Tsukuyo’s about being a woman and being in love, during half of ch620? Or even just Kondo’s failed gorilla marriage in the last arc?
I don’t think so. 🙂
(more rambling under read more)
Anyway the whole arc is presented as being comic relief and as not to be taken seriously for those who don’t like the ships it is focusing on (that’s Sensei’s skill right here), but still Sensei subverted the whole thing and that’s what’s so unbelievably cool about this arc.
Like, I love how the introduction is that “whoever smells the aizen kou drug will fall in love with the first person they see” but even tho’ he applied that to Kagura and Shinpachi for a short while, Sensei ended up throwing even that to the bin, especially when you see how the arc went for Tsukuyo and Kyuubei.
The first thing Tsukuyo saw was Gintoki’s dick after she smelled the drug but the whole arc is about realizing her feelings for Gintoki, the man.
On the contrary, you have Kyuubei who ended up going after dicks for most of the arc (no matter who the guys were), even tho’ I doubt that she actually saw a forest of dicks right after she smelled the drug.
So it’s interesting how Sensei adjusted the very first rule of the arc to eventually make it about what he wanted to explore for his characters.
Even when you see the monologues for Otae and Kyuubei, it does seem to reflect what their personal arc is revolving around: Otae always had conflicted feelings to sort out about Kondo; Kyuubei always had this hesitation about whether to live as a man or a woman (until she made her final choice in ch620).
Granted that poor Kondo himself is often reduced to comic relief, but it should be pointed out that his monologue only reached us after Otae kinda manhandled him so, ahem, hard to have any conclusion on what he said, even if it’s not like his feelings about Otae needed any clarification. 🙂
It gets trickier for Gintoki because, on the one hand you could argue that “he smelled so much of the drug that he lost his sense of reason” (something I’m sure a lot of readers who disliked this arc did), but on the other, why shouldn’t he also get serious/honest moments in this arc about his own feelings when everyone else did?
Sensei is just way too good at hiding these moments amidst all the jokes, so that no one can complain about him having a soft spot for a few ships in particular.
Anyone who’d argue that Gintoki was never serious once in this arc is just shooting their own foot actually, because Tsukuyo acted way unlike herself because of the drug several times and so did Otae, Kyuubei and Kondo.
So even though Gintoki did/said stupid stuff because of the drug, if everyone else did too but also got to face/admit about some of their inner feelings, then it’s logical to think that the same happened with Gin.
And that’s what’s so amazing about how Sensei wrote this arc: I’m not saying that this arc is implying GinTsu is ever going to get canon (tbh I doubt it, even if Tsukuyo is the one who got the most focus about her feelings for Gintoki out of everyone), but to say that Gintoki has literally 0 interest in Tsukuyo would be misreading in my opinion.
If anything we already know that she’s physically his type (that pool episode/chapter with the Shogun) xD
Anyway, Gintoki has way too many issues about not wanting things to change + being scared of getting too attached to many people (because of everything that happened with Shoyo and the consequences of his choice back then) that this arc could only go max comic relief in appearance, as far as he was concerned.
Since the last arc is finally targeting Gintoki’s whole emotional trauma surrounding his choice towards Shoyo back during the war though, I guess that if Sensei wanted, he could choose to hint towards a Gin ship maybe becoming canon at the very end after daily life kicks in again, but as I said I doubt that, mostly because of the massive ship wars (tho I’m also all for Gin/Hasegawa 🙂).
Final thing: if anyone were to argue that this arc is only comic relief and can’t be taken seriously on some aspects, then I guess they wouldn’t see the homeless arc and its heavy focus on Katsura’s complicated dynamic with Ikumatsu as being literally the same thing but in another context, because Zura just didn’t need the aizen kou.
Just like Hijikata didn’t need it either when it came to Mitsuba.
tl;dr Sensei is good at crafting the tone of his arcs depending on what he wants to address for his characters and that obviously includes the love potion arc, which is in my opinion one of the best examples of a comedy arc that’s actually hiding a lot of meaningful stuff.
An arc is hardly ever a stand-alone in Gintama anyway, so the love potion arc can’t be meaningless if what took place ended up having consequences at some later time (like ch620 or even the last arc, post time skip).
Dissecting the narrative isn’t going to lead anywhere: no one “has to” ship Gintsu or enjoy the Kondo/Otae/Kyuubei triangle, but let’s not pretend that the characters are oblivious to each other and that comedy arcs can’t strengthen their feelings, whatever they are.
Hear me out, because Ciel and his servants can’t go back to the Phantomhive mansion (real!Ciel is there), they can’t go live at the Midford mansion (not after the latest development), the townhouse in London was attacked + it’s not exactly a good hideout, Soma is at Sieglinde’s and I doubt that Ciel wants to involve them more.
So where are they going to go and mostly how are they going to counterattack (Frances’ advice: it’s always easier when your opponent makes the first move)?
I made a small post before on which readers left a lot of cool ideas, like going to Lau’s opium den (@isammy7936 and @frederickabberline) or asking Diedrich for help (@my-lady-no-further) and, while I love those ideas (let’s get more people involved), there are other characters from this arc who also need to stop the undead twin + UT duo…
so I’d say a team-up with them first would make more sense for now, at least if we ever hope to see this arc move closer to its end. xD
Grell can’t face UT on their own after all, since UT won against Grell + Ronald + Seb during the Campania arc, which is probably why Grell and Othello ended up leaving as soon as Ciel and Seb were arrested by Scotland Yard.
Seeing as Seb & Ciel probably want the same as Othello & Grell though, either side could easily vouch for an alliance in order to stop UT’s BD project and the twin’s plan. Besides, at least the Shinigamis know the twin is undead and they have no reason to support his return.
The second point that’s making me think this idea could be the next development is…
what Othello said the first time he met Ciel: “you have a familiar face”.
Considering that Othello didn’t comment anymore about this upon seeing the twins together a few chapters ago, I am thinking it never was about real!Ciel at all, but rather possibly about another Phantomhive he met 50 years ago (the last time he came to the human world), which is to say Claudia Phantomhive, one of our main mysteries.
The twins do look like Vincent a lot and Sensei said that Vincent took a lot after Claudia, so Othello could have been reminded of Claudia when he saw Ciel (50 years ago she’d have been ~10 y/o and he’s almost 14).
Furthermore, if we’re assuming that Othello couldn’t remember who Ciel reminded him of exactly in ch125, after meeting with UT and seeing the twins with him, there is a good chance his memory was jogged (maybe that was even the whole point of making the Shinigamis show up at the manor despite them not doing anything before leaving).
And why it might be important is because one way to get to UT could be through confronting him about his link to Claudia…
especially since he seems rather sensitive on the subject [x][x] and she could be one objective of his BD project (remember how he cried about Vincent, ch105?).
Anyway, no matter if this what happens or not (if Claudia gets mentioned or not, I mean I’d looove that but let’s not hope too much), Othello just sharing stuff about UT from 50 years ago could be useful to Ciel (since UT has an emotional connection to the Phantomhive family) and, in return, I guess Ciel could lend Sebastian to the Shinigamis to try and take UT down.
Besides, don’t we know that the Shinigamis are understaffed? xD
So I’m all for Will as reinforcement (especially since Will was investigating about UT in Germany), but somehow I can see this happening during the final part of the arc (to take UT away, he’s done enough), just not right now.
IDK but considering that Shinigamis are everywhere in Kuro’s arcs, it’s interesting that we never had a temporary common front before between them and Ciel & Seb (it didn’t even happen in the Campania arc because Seb was fighting against Grell and Ronald too).
It certainly happened in the anime (with Grell too), so for the ones who are fond of parallels with the anime, this could be an opportunity to see it in the manga. 🙂
Side note: we don’t know if Alexis and real!Ciel talked about “the truth” yet, but I’m also still vouching for more investigation by Edward who might hopefully remember about Weston and the undead students & vice principal.
I love this because Claudia #1 master confirmed yay! but also because “I have served this family for two generations so I don’t really care who is the head of the family amongst you fighting siblings, I’m just here to keep an eye over all of you and watch the fort”.
I love this because it’s like “you’re all Phantomhives as regards me”, by UT in ch131 and the two men are definitely foiling each other. They have been here since Claudia’s time and she could very well be the reason they decided they’d stay for the following generations.
So not only do I truly wonder what kind of an awesome woman she was (but that’s not new), but I guess neither Tanaka nor UT will be the ones who will put an end to this chess game between the twins because they’re not on either side.
hey i just gotta add quickly that
UT and Tanaka both knew that our!Ciel was lying about his identity,
they both know stuff about the P family that they’ve been more or less not telling our!Ciel
they both knew Claudia and Vincent
and they seem to care about both twins (unless the rcmt is a thing and Tanaka is just pretending)
The last character who could be fitting the exact same criteria (with a remaining question mark on the first) has been missing for a while but her children and her husband are (supposedly) coming home with “the truth”.
Unlike Tanaka and UT though, I wonder if Frances might really stay a neutral party?
First of all, there is Lizzie’s sorrow that might motivate her to do something/anything, especially if she already knew about our!Ciel lying and feels bad about not telling her daughter, which led to the current arc in a way.
Secondly, considering the comic relief around her character, I’d say her not getting along with UT could be a real thing and in that case she has no reason to go along with whatever plan he supports/be as neutral as he and Tanaka are?
As a follow up to this post about what the family lineage might be.
I definitely spoke about this before, when ch108 came out and for an old analysis I did of Frances’ character, but it’s been over two years since then and lately I was wondering once more…
…if what awoke within Ciel during the arc in Germany, allowing him to see the Shinigamis, was activated only from time to time or became permanent.
Thus here’s a reminder of the parallel between Frances and Ciel both staring at Seb’s face for no particular reason (Ciel more than Frances, since he literally said it was nothing when Frances called Seb names afterwards), when they both share the Phantomhive lineage.
I can’t be sure whether it was made on purpose or not (I do agree it sounds super random though), but I personally always took that part (above) from ch108 as a possible hint that the lineage thing somehow activated in ch103 and is now permanent, meaning that Ciel’s eyes can see things that he couldn’t before:
like shinigamis even when they’re supposedly hiding themselves from humans
and possibly even through Seb’s human disguise as well.
TL;DR what runs for generations in the Phantomhive family may be the ability to spot either just Shinigamis or supernatural beings in general, and:
No but seriously though, Bravat aside (no matter if he can really see through Seb’s disguise despite being a human), what if…
that’s more or less how Frances sees Seb, thanks to the Phantomhive lineage???
Hence why she’d not only criticize his hair (even if she doesn’t like bangs on everybody so it’s not really a hint) but also his face, when humans in general will describe him as good looking?
Maybe the lineage only allows Phantomhives to notice Shinigamis or maybe it allows more than that? Mayyyyybeeee?
((Imagine Frances’ reaction tho, if she had a way to know Seb was a demon from the first time she saw him: her brother’s family was thought to have been completely annihilated but it turned out that one of her nephews survived…..! Except that he came back with his soul chained to a demon. Poor Frances T_T))
Ahhhhhhhhh senseiiiiiii!! Okay so Bravat just confirmed that his “predictions” weren’t exactly his (most likely UT’s) but it seems he really does see through Seb’s human disguise to some extent!
So guess who else might be able to do the same thingggggg…!
Because Noda Sensei wrote about the use of fortune-telling/divination plenty of time in the story so far and, so as not to judge the customs of Ainu people or other minor ethnicities from Karafuto who strongly believe(d) in this, he made it generally accurate when it came to following plot twists.
Overall Inkarmat was more right than wrong (Kiroranke, Karafuto, Wilk didn’t kill those Ainu men even if he was Nopperabou),
her own prediction she got from Mifune Chizuko also turned out to be correct (Kiroranke, the man she was after, stabbed her),
Asirpa was indeed betrayed by one of the three men who used to follow her (by two, to be accurate, but you get the point)
Since most of what Inkarmat predicted is half divination/half investigation though, that’s why Sensei ended up introducing the additional idea that “fate can be changed”, meaning divination doesn’t have to be the only truth. However, where Sensei could have let Inkarmat be the fake she initially seemed to be (especially when Asirpa didn’t believe in this kind of things), she ended up being given a lot of credits.
And that means that this reindeer’s shoulder blade from ch166…
is supposedly a good indicator that someone within the group who (unknowingly) received this prediction will die.
The most expected/logical candidate initially is Shiraishi because it’s his decision to keep on following Asirpa that changed the prediction from “someone is following you” to “someone is going to die” but as it is, well that’s kinda too easy to think like that. xD
Sensei could go for a double bluff (making us think it can’t be Shiraishi because #too easy, only to kill him anyway) but… meh. Besides, Shiraishi hasn’t really done anything wrong, okay he’s the Escape King, but he never killed anyone which is quite the difference with most of the cast, so killing him would be unfair.
When it comes to Asirpa, she ain’t dying or I riot. Nah but for real, she’s got one hell of a plot armor, being (in theory) the only one who can work out the code her father hid amongst the 24 tattoos, which is why everyone wants her.
Besides if she dies, Sugimoto will most likely annihilate the whole world and this wouldn’t help his character development or the story, so double nah. Final point, but eventually she also has to go back to her village, to see her grandmother again, so that Tanigaki can be free from that self-imposed duty (and so that he can go back home too) => so, not Asirpa.
Which leaves Kiro and Ogata, the two traitors. :))
And Kiro is the most likely candidate to die between the two, at least for me.
Firstly, so far, Ogata was the one who was hinted to have a possible chance at redemption
between the two, mainly through the concept of “guilt” he pretended never to feel but that he must feel regardless, if just towards the memory of his brother.
We may not know why he wants the gold, but he left nothing behind when he went to Karafuto, so he could definitely change his mind about the gold and using Asirpa, which is a huge difference with Kiroranke.
Now, don’t get me wrong, I don’t think Kiro sees Asirpa as only a mean to an end (he’s not Tsurumi), but he’s still ruthless. For example, Wilk was his old friend, they even assassinated the Russian Emperor together, but he still ordered his death.
Besides, I personally think it’s likely that Kiro is actually the one who assassinated those Ainu men which is something Wilk took the fall for…
just like he’s the one who stabbed Inkarmat. Hopefully Inkarmat will survive this, but Asirpa still believes her dad murdered some of her fellow Ainu people and she’s bound to find out it wasn’t the case once she sees Sugimoto again.
For Kiro to hide a truth like that is not an element vouching in his favor or his survival. In the first place, going back to Karafuto is a real step back for Kiro, because it’s like going back to the past and as we know now…
…that past holds a lot of complicated elements that we have to take in consideration for the future developments.
Going back to Karafuto ties directly into Kiro’s motivations obviously, because fighting for the independence of minor ethnicities is all that he’s always been after and, as Sugimoto said to Wilk, sure it’s a just and noble cause, but it shouldn’t be at the expense of everything else.
For example, just like Sugimoto was angry at Wilk for apparently trying to make Asirpa this Ainu “Joan of Arc” (because it’s selfish as @sentrakk explained here), Kiro shouldn’t have gone to Karafuto without a single look back at the family he left behind (how many months has it been since he saw his sons?).
Again, don’t get me wrong, I don’t think Kiro doesn’t care about his family. On the contrary, having Ainu sons is giving him even more reasons to fight for the independence of Ainu people and other minor ethnicities, which is most likely why he’s even more ruthless now than he used to be and so why he even had Wilk killed.
But here’s the thing…
Kiro and Wilk were old friends, who fought and killed together, so for Kiro to have Wilk killed (just like maybe for him to frame Wilk for the murders), it must indeed have been because Wilk really changed when Kiro didn’t/couldn’t.
As for how/why Wilk changed…
…it’s thanks to Asirpa herself (just like it was the case for Sugimoto, Tanigaki, even Shiraishi and for Ogata next): Wilk’s plan and motivations regarding his daughter were definitely questionable, but at least it seems that he truly loved her and the Ainu people, to the point he wasn’t ready to keep going with the initial plan about the gold and that’s the major difference with Kiro.
He and Wilk used to have common goals, they used to be the same, but where becoming a father apparently changed Wilk, having sons didn’t make Kiro change his way of life/way of thinking: he just can’t leave the cause he’s been fighting for his whole life behind just to be with them.
And beyond the notion of this being “good or bad” (since the cause is indeed seen as just and noble), since Kiro couldn’t forgive/understand Wilk changing and had him (framed? and) killed for this reason, this difference between them is most likely what’s going to kill Kiro too at some point during this arc.
Personally right now I have no idea as to who might kill him or lead him to his death, hopefully not Sugimoto (who’s set up to confront Ogata) or Tanigaki (even if Kiro stabbed Inkarmat, because he should know revenge isn’t for him).
Maybe it’s going to be the Russians? Or maybe it will have to do with Shiraishi
one way or another, since it’s Shiraishi’s change of mind that led to this change of prediction in ch166.
TL;DR just my opinion, but I’ll be very surprised if Kiroranke were to make it back to Hokkaido somehow (unless he has a change of heart about everything, since “fate can be changed”, but it sure doesn’t look like it right now).
Can we talk about Lucifer’s wish for a durable vessel? This is from ch102:
and the following is from ch104, before
and after Amaimon got his own functional new vessel…
as well as when Satan finally possessed Goro:
I find it’s quite interesting that Lucifer is presented as having a lot of faith about “being rewarded for his suffering” and that one day some sort cosmic justice will give him what he deserves (which is a new functional vessel) when, back then, he was thought to be the highest and most powerful demon to the two worlds of Assiah and Gehenna.
Then Satan finally possessed a vessel and developed an ego but no one (Mephy aside because he exists everywhen) knew who he was at first, yet look at how Mephisto and Amaimon explain Gehenna’s hierarchy now, 20 years later:
So you know, it’s as if… before Satan even technically gained an ego and started to really exist as who he is, Lucifer already believed that there was a greater being (a God) above all of them and he kinda gained the proof of that (the reward to his faith) through Satan’s possession of Goro, 20 years ago.
That eventually led to the creation of the Illuminati, once Section 13 was destroyed (most likely during the Blue Night), and the pursuit of the goals he already was mentioning to Shemihaza which are…
…starting with making sure both he and Satan get a vessel because “it’s fair and there shouldn’t be an Assiah/Gehenna limit”.
So Lucifer, as Gehenna #2 (just like most of the Baals actually), is very faithful to that God that he already believed in before Satan was even conscious of existing & being significant to others + he believes he understands others and that bringing peace to everyone in the form of equality is The Answer.
Facing him in comparison tho’, you’ve got Mephisto, who’s probably jaded about Satan being his Father/God/blahblah, because he’s seen this shit in idk how many timelines and his only priority is for Assiah not to disappear, because humans are interesting and he doesn’t see the point of not being able to enjoy what Assiah and humans can bring to him.
In other words, he’s an absolutely selfish jerk who can casually say that “yes you all are my pawns but you are only worms to me so it’s only fitting I treat you as such”, as well as pretend wanting to give Rin to Satan while also claiming to want to use Rin in order to take down Lucifer. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
And Mephy + other powerful demons created (and are still leading) the True Cross Order, an organization that’s supposed to be about Protecting Humans While Fighting Against Demons but that’s also actually about giving strong vessels to more powerful demons.
So it’s literally
because the contrast between Lucifer & Samael, Illuminati &True Cross Order is huge on every aspect, so honestly I love what Sensei is doing with it, because it’s a total mindfuck (I get why Shima has so much fun spying for both sides, with both sides fully aware + why Yukio said “fuck all of them” xDDD).
Crack theory: the Phantomhive lineage is at the origin of the Watchdog duty
Very old idea related to ch103 & the GW arc overall that I never took the time to write.
Based on the fact that Claudia was most likely Vincent’s predecessor, which is implying that, when no more male heir available, using a woman from the Phantomhive family as the Watchdog was apparently a better alternative than giving the job to another nobleman loyal to the royal family.
@frederickabberline previously made a post explaining under which circumstances noble women could inherit anything, so it isn’t strange that Claudia was able to get that title. Still, the Watchdog position implies keeping control over the underworld, solving weird cases and cleaning up after the royal family, so it’s not exactly a normal position.
To keep it within a family specifically (the Phantomhives) could be a matter of keeping the Watchdog’s identity a secret, but…
…clearly ch132 and Vincent explain that, if no more heir, the whole thing goes back to the crown who decides who they’ll give it to next. So it’s probably Victoria who decided to give it to Claudia in the first place, allowing her to inherit despite being a woman (we don’t know when) and…
it’s also the Queen who decided that a 10 year old boy from the same family would receive that position.
So, assuming that the royal family intends on keeping the Watchdog duty as tightly related to the P family as possible, the question is why? Well, my answer for now would be the lineage thing.
Granted that we don’t know exactly what that lineage is yet, why it apparently has to be activated, etc, but it seems to at least have to do with being able to see/sense/detect supernatural beings. So far:
Ciel managed to spot the Shinigamis in ch103 despite them being invisible to normal human eyes at the time
the German Shinigamis said that “it runs in the family” so we can assume that it spans more than just two generations (so it’s most likely unrelated to whoever Cedric K. Ros- is)
And I’m of the opinion that it could probably be seen as useful if the royal family were to know about (and believe) it.
For now though, it’s hard to consider whether or not Victoria herself gave out hints that she might know about the lineage, because her absence of surprise towards Ciel’s report for the Weston arc could also be explained by John Brown most likely being supernatural and by her side, as many have guessed before.
The thing is, I find there is a possible analogy between the Watchdog’s duty
and Seb’s own situation as Ciel’s personal dog
Because Will basically said that a demon with a leash on (the contract & Seb’s own aesthetic) was better than free demons who would probably go around scavenging for souls that Shinigamis work hard to collect.
And it’s kinda the same if we’re considering that the Phantomhives are dogs to the royal family: putting a collar on them makes them less dangerous and more easy to keep under control (eventually hanging them with it if needs be, as UT pointed out), especially if what the royal family was originally interested in was how useful the Phantomhive lineage could be to them.
The other reason I came up with this theory is the Green Witch arc overall: again it’s just my opinion but, while the last part of the arc was really good, I have a few issues with the rest of it. I explained here why but, to sum up: compared to all the other arcs, the fake supernatural settings (werewolves, witch, curse/magic, etc) are rather unrelated to the true subplot (German army researching war weapons using a young genius), which is unusual and makes it too convenient as a result.
That being said, since I like to believe that Sensei does things for a reason, I’ve been thinking that maybe the fake supernatural settings of the GW arc are supposed to be relevant elsewhere in the story, kinda like how the murders at manor arc ended up being used as an introduction to the war suplot.
So initially, looking at what Sieglinde believed to be the truth, you get this story…
and let’s just say that this is a situation that could have easily been applied to the Phantomhive family, if anyone ever found out that they were “gifted”.
Again, we don’t know what the lineage is or where it comes from, but if Ciel’s ancestors ended up being hunted as heretics
at some point
because of it, then similarly to Sieglinde’s story, who knows if they didn’t agree to a pact with the royal family (the Watchdog duty), in exchange for their protection?
That pact gave the royal family the huge advantage to get their own little gifted dogs, generations after generations, and to use that special lineage indirectly for themselves…
…as long as they kept a tight leash on this family.
I’m aware it might appear a little far-fetched, especially when we don’t know what the lineage
really
is about yet, but that’s why it’s a crack theory.
To be honest though, I can’t help but also wonder about the timing of the lineage thing’s introduction by Sensei: ch103 is right during the final part of the GW arc after all, so it could be a coincidence or narratively meaningful because the settings of the arc do have some sort of link to that lineage stuff. :))
Let me know if anything is unclear! As always thanks for reading!!
Btw you know how clearly the current arc In GK is setting up to a Sugimoto vs Ogata confrontation when they’re to meet again and whether Sugimoto will really end up killing him or not?
Well I think that’s all about the current arc as far as Sugimoto is concerned.
When it comes to Kiro, even though Sugimoto said he’d kill both him and Ogata there is literally no build up particular to that in the arc, especially when Kiro wasn’t even for shooting Sugimoto along with Wilk in the first place.
You know who could be set up to confront Kiro though? Tanigaki.
Even though Tanigaki isn’t into killing as much as the others ever since the arc with Nihei, it turns out that Kiro kinda stabbed the woman he loves + he took Asirpa away so ehhhhh not saying Tanigaki would kill him, but being the one to confront him would make more sense than Sugimoto as far as the arc went till now.
Just some thoughts. :))
You raised a terribly interesting point. I admit I had wondered why Tanigaki felt the need to tag along because the excuse was rather poor.
Sure, Sugimoto wasn’t well RIGHT THEN, but by the time they reach Karafuto Sugimoto is fine enough he can take part to the stenka.
All right, if he get punched too much he loses control but nobody knew about it right then.
Sugimoto doesn’t really need Tanigaki to play babysitter… so it felt weird he felt the need to tag along, especially considering Tanigaki isn’t THAT close to Asirpa…
…but at the time I didn’t really remembered that Tanigaki is also this guy… who left his family to avenge his sister…
Of course it backfires on him terribly, causing him the loss of his mother as well… but he pursues in his purpose anyway…
Until his great plan to get revenge was completely twarted by the mere fact he was hugely misguided in it..
…and he ended up like this…
Tanigaki had been then healed by Nihei, Huci and Osoma but there’s really to wonder if Tanigaki will try again to avenge a person he loves as he wanted to do with his sister, slipping up in the same mistake which caused everything that went wrong in his life the first time.
In a way he’s already risking it… as he left Inkarmat alone as he did with his mother. It’s also worth pointing out that although Kiroranke threatened Inkarmat with his knife he didn’t mean to stab her and actually it’s possible she was the one who did herself the most harm as the way she’s holding the knife suggests that in fear Kiro could take it away she’s pushing it inside herself.
Kiro is a man with a purpose and willing to die for it. Probably, even if Tanigaki were to kill him, he wouldn’t have much to regret.
So, honestly, I’m curious.
Is Tanigaki going to make the same mistake again and trying to extract a revenge that won’t help him any and might even damage him?
Or, like many characters in Golden Kamuy, he’s going to evolve and become someone different?
You made me really curious about it, I can’t wait to see what Tanigaki will do when he’ll confront Kiro!
Thank you for raising such an interesting point to ponder!
I always thought Tanigaki’s major driving force to join them was to get
revenge for Kiro stabbing Inkarmat. It has been highlighted it is hard
to tell if he actually intended to stab her or if she made it worse. Tanigaki may have partially healed via Nihei/Huci/Osoma but the fact he still haven’t gone home when he should have means something else is driving him … .
The rest of his reasoning is weak unless he knows more about Tsukishima
and Koito than we as readers know but Tanigaki seems to lack the ability to read people as well as some of the others. As I’ve said, I think Inkarmat drove the knife in deeper due to her strong belief that Kiro would kill her as a self-fulfilling move …
I was so willing to believe Tanigaki was past his ‘I’ll get revenge’ period I assumed Inkarmat might be a factor in his decision but I merely thought he wanted to stop Kiroranke in her place because he felt guilty he hadn’t given her warning the proper attention.
On a second though however what pushed Tanigaki to go with Sugimoto might have been more than that.
Yes, undoubtedly the fact Tanigaki isn’t returning home hints at something… but I was hoping it was just he was still ashamed for what he did and that he sort of learnt the lesson… not that he was going to slip into it again.
Tanigaki couldn’t be moved in his action by something he knew about Tsukishima and Koito as they’re selected to go with Sugimoto after Tanigaki volunteered and Koito clearly had no idea he would be sent with Sugimoto and even asked why.
In regards to Koito I tend to believe Kiro didn’t want to stab Inkarmat, just to scare her.
When the stabbing takes place he says he didn’t mean it and looks surprised.
In such situation he would have no reason to lie. If he wanted to stab her I would have expected him to say something like, ‘served you right’ and not something like ‘wait, I didn’t mean to stab…’.
Inkarmat wanted to much to make him a culprit, wanted so badly to prove he was guilty and she also claimed more than once she was ready to die for this I think she ended up on causing her own stabbing.
After all I had wondered what she had in mind here (Chap 116)…
The answer might be in the following chap 117
She expected Kiro to come after her. Actually once the truth about her suspicions was out she she wasn’t more of a threat than any one else, actually even less than the others as there was actually little she could do to stop him… so why would Kiro have to kill her?
Actually it seems what she’s doing is taking advantage of Tanigaki again to push him to kill Kiro should something happen to her. She’s very driven into proving Kiro is guilty and, I guess, seeing he was involved in Wilk’s death only made the whole matter worse.
Thanks for your input, @goldenkamuyhunting and @chibivesicle! However, I can’t agree that Inkarmat purposely caused her own stabbing or that she used that to manipulate Tanigaki into going after Kiro.
Tanigaki leaving is presented as being related to Asirpa. My point was just that once they’ll see each other again, Tanigaki might remember that the guy who took Asirpa away is also the guy who stabbed the woman he loves.
I’m aware that Chibi in particular distrusts Inkarmat (I do remember your post on the subject), but in my opinion we saw a genuine gradual change of her character until the Abashiri arc and Kiro remains the one who ended up having Wilk shot and taking Asirpa away anyway.
I do agree that Kiro clearly only meant to threaten her but her stabbing herself on purpose and manipulating Tanigaki to go kill Kiro doesn’t make sense with her character development. At least not in opinion.
Wilk and Asirpa are important to her, but she thought Wilk was dead for years and, before Abashiri, she confirmed she wasn’t in love with him anymore, didn’t care about the gold and only looked forward to moving on, so that she and Tanigaki would think about their own future together.
For me, she was being absolutely genuine and, besides, Tanigaki already said during the hot spring arc against Toni Anji that his clearly obvious feelings for her were what was driving him to protect her. So she wouldn’t even need to pretend loving him if all she cared about was using him.
Similarly, her reason to run after Kiro once he had Wilk shot during Abashiri was first and foremost to warn and get Asirpa away from him, before they were alone and she ended up asking about why he’d even kill his old comrade.
Finally, there is no ground for an argument about her agenda being the crappiest especially compared to Kiro, Ogata, Hijikata or Tsurumi: sure she used them, but like literally everyone else in the group, and all the time it was to protect Wilk’s daughter from the man she thought had killed him (she never directly wanted revenge against Kiro in the story, just Asirpa’s safety).
I’m not excusing her, but ya know, “let’s protect a young girl from adults who are killing each other to get their hands on her” sounds overall better. xD In that aspect, it’s great Tanigaki and Inkarmat have found each other. It’s not about the gold, it’s about people and, currently, about Asirpa in particular.
Thanks again for your input, you guys! 🙂
Ops, I’ve explained myself really poorly so I apologize.
First of all I also believe Inkarmat feelings for Tanigaki are genuine at this point in the story.
Her attempt to use Tanigaki to which I referred was in the past.
As you pointed out Inkarmat is a character who developed but she started her interaction with
Tanigaki considering Tanigaki a pawn she could use.
I think
she slowly started to revise that idea because she slowly started to
grow feelings for Tanigaki. However when she had that discussion about
how Tanigaki should held Kiro responsible where she end up dead, she was
still unsure about her feelings for Tanigaki and torn about her feelings
for Wilk. She also had no idea past could be changed and believed she
would end up dead due to her prediction, so in that time period it probably makes sense to her she wanted her
death to at least serve to prove Kiro was guilty and that she hoped
Tanigaki would aid her in this matter.
We’ll see that even if I believe Inkarmat have developed genuine feelings for Tanigaki, she will
keep on cooperating with Tsurumi
behind Tanigaki’s back, using him to let Tsurumi know of their moves.
Inkarmat started to think she wants to walk toward the future WITH
Tanigaki after he saved her… but we see she’s still torn. It doesn’t mean her feelings for Tanigaki aren’t genuine, just that she didn’t change overnight. She didn’t wash away completely the person she was before, the actions she did before, the thoughts she had before… and that’s good because in life very few people manage to turn page abruptly.
Golden Kamuy is about slow development, not radical development.
However, and this I expressed really, really poorly, I didn’t mean to say that Inkarmat… let’s say grabbed the knife from Kiro’s hand and stabbed herself on purpose so as to set Tanigaki on murdering Kiro.
As I see it, the scene probably went as following:
1) Kiro threatens Inkarmat with his knife. He doesn’t mean to stab her, just to scare her into silence.
2) Inkarmat has no idea he’s only trying to intimidate her and anyway she’s too furious to think clearly. This guy has caused Wilk’s death and now he’s taking away Asirpa and blaming her to be a liar. She never planned to go down quietly and the situation is clearly not making her change her mind.
3) The two struggles and Inkarmat somehow managed to make Kiro fall on her. The scene is purposely dark so as to stop us from knowing what exactly happened.
4) Inkarmat and Kiro are on the ground. They’re both panting and sweating a lot, a hint they had a struggle before falling. Inkarmat is obviously in pain.
5) Either when they had struggled but more likely when they had fallen Kiro’s knife had ended up stabbing Inkarmat. It wasn’t planned, which is why Kiro says he didn’t mean to. Inkarmat got stabbed into her stomach, it seems. I can’t see the area clearly but a wound in such area is often deadly. We don’t know how deep Kiro ended up stabbing her but, fearing she’ll die before being able to tell he’s the culprit and that he’ll take away the knife, the only proof Kiro did stab her, she grabs the knife and holds it inside her. Look at her hand, it’s not how you position it to pull it out. What’s worse, she curls her body protectively around the knife likely hurting herself more, possibly even causing it to slid deeper. Note that since it’s implied by the box she believed she wouldn’t be alive to point out who attacked her, she’s not really being suicidal. She’s just trying to save the only way she has to prove Kiro murdered her.
Long story short, I think Inkarmat felt cornered and tried to act under the belief Kiro would have killed her anyway. He was pointing his knife to her neck, after all. In such situation, her LEGITTIMATE attempt to fight a man she believed wanted to kill her caused her unplanned stabbing (I don’t think Inkarmat wanted to be stabbed in that moment, she likely only wanted to fight Kiro), and her belief she would die due to having been stabbed in the stomach, caused her to hurt herself further in attempt to save the only mean she has to prove the culprit was Kiro.
While I think it was legittimate for Inkarmat to hope that if Tanigaki were to discover Kiro killed her he would do something, I’m not even sure she wanted Tanigaki to murder Kiro.
Ainu usually aren’t really fond of murders so I don’t think she ever wanted
that. She might have wanted him stopped, or punished the Ainu way, but probably not murdered.
Inkarmat is a cool woman. She’s trying to do her best to do what she believes is the right thing. Discovering the truth about Wilk’s death, protecting Asirpa… those aren’t bad goals.
I’m not really sure how I managed to give you the impression I thought her to be worse than the other boys as I didn’t really compared her with what the other boys are doing, one way or the other as that wasn’t my intention and I don’t even think poorly of her for using Tanigaki.
Tanigaki is a soldier under Tsurumi’s orders as far as she knows and she was told by Tsurumi to use him in such way and Tsurumi, being Tanigaki’s superior officer, IS ALLOWED to decide Tanigaki can be used in such way.
Yes, it’s not nice toward Tanigaki but Tanigaki is a soldier and he’s not supposed to discuss, Tsurumi is a commander and this sort of decisions are part of his job and Inkarmat had an agreement with Tsurumi so she technically was allowed to do what she did.
I hope it works a little more clearly now and I apologize for explaining myself poorly previously. Really, I didn’t mean to discount Inkarmat’s feelings for Tanigaki or to claim she just committed suicide to have Kiro murdered.
Regarding Tanigaki leaving, yes, I know it’s presented as being related to Asirpa. My point was your words had made me remember how Tanigaki was a man who believed in revenge and this belief might still linger inside him and might have pushed him into wanting to join Sugimoto.
As I said I’m not sure about this, it might be Tanigaki has made a radical turn over and would never pursue revenge at present time, but it might also be he hadn’t fully overcome this weakness and that this will be something he will have to face. I’m just curious to see if that’s the case. I like Tanigaki, I want him to manage to deal with all his lingering issues and finally feel able to return back home. Then I wouldn’t mind if, once he managed to go back to his relatives he would decide to then return to Hokkaido and settle up with Inkarmat as he seems to long to do.
I just want him to settle his issues first. It’s just me though.
Sorry, if it came out confusing and messy, I really had a long day at work and words aren’t really coming easily to me. Many, many apologies again.
@goldenkamuyhunting aww no worries and thanks for your answer, I always love reading your posts!
Also I didn’t mean at all that you had made any comparison between Inkarmat and the other men from the group.
Since we were on the subject, it was just my own input that, narratively, she was presented to be shady and manipulative, her link to Tsurumi being revealed fairly early on, so it’s natural to distrust her (namely any fan thinking she might still be manipulating is understandable). However it turned out that, in spite of it, her goal isn’t as selfish as most of the other characters’ from the group because she’s not motivated by the gold at all.
That’s what I like about her character and the way Noda Sensei writes her! She and Tanigaki both actually. They’re on Asirpa’s side, they really are, like Sugimoto and Shiraishi (maybe Ogata too in the future) and I’m quite enjoying that.
I also agree about slow development in GK and Inkarmat, just like Tanigaki, is consistent in trying to protect Asirpa, indicating Karafuto as where Kiro possibly left, etc. Even calling Tsurumi over to Abashiri she justified as protecting Asirpa.
On the point of Tanigaki, we share the same exact same thoughts so I have nothing to add! :))
I hope I managed to rectify my own confusing explanation, complex week ahead as well xD you caught me after a national mock up exam, haha.
I was wondering why I was having so many “ch14″ vibes with the latest chapters and I guess now I know why. Because recently aren’t we, like, exactly there?
It’s the same as with UT’s foreshadowing words in ch35, but even better because it comes from Seb and Seb is constantly by Ciel’s side.
And do you remember what Seb also said, after he conveniently predicted that Ciel would sometimes need to “carry himself with humility” because he can be overconfident leading to him tripping up?
How interesting when more and more fans agree to the idea that Frances’ absence lately, when the rest of the family showed up, could be because she’s the only one (besides Tanaka and UT) who already knew about our!Ciel lying. :)) [x][x][x][x][x]
Additional thought is additional (and theoretical) but:
Until now I thought that this advice, also very relevant to the latest development, is something that our!Ciel heard her say to real!Ciel during a fencing lesson or something, but as it turned out, the flashback never addressed it.
Of course, maybe Sensei wrote that bubble but it’s not supposed to be meaningful on the long run, except that it’s kinda Ciel’s strategy towards getting revenge for the last 3 years, so
personally
I’d call it significant…
And that’s why I can’t help but think that maybe our!Ciel is really the one Frances said that to, possibly during a very rare fencing lesson or, who knows, during a chess game?
TL;DR still vouching for Frances having a role to play in the current arc, either towards Lizzie or our!Ciel (or both), + still vouching overall for some sort of mentor dynamic between her and our!Ciel, because there are just so many parallels (probably both the spare to their elder brothers, both lost the same family members because of the Watchdog’s duty, etc).
And Seb genuinely seems to enjoy the idea, which is even more interesting.
Listen
Everytime I’m reminded that Sensei possibly didn’t forget about ch14, I’m living.
midnight-in-town 