Answer next month probably, because the timeline finally fits, and…
It’d fit with the whole point of Section 13 being about experimenting in order to give powerful demons a durable vessel.
They tried baby clones in tubes (iirc?),
so next maybe…
they could try experimental surrogacy, starting with Yuri?
Personal opinion, but I just can’t see Yuri doing the do with Satan next month, since she’s clearly still in love with Shiro (Sensei said after the chapter was released that there was no hope for them, I’m sad ;_;) and having sex with him probably isn’t supposed to be a part of her whole “maybe helping Rinka” idea.
However carrying what could be a new vessel “for Rinka’s sake” might be something she could agree with? At least initially? Obviously the concept is horrible because, if this is what happens, then she’s probably going to be injected/experimented on with stuff like elixirs/Satan’s powers daily, so that the vessels (the twins) will develop to be powerful enough to withstand Satan.
And things are probably going to take a turn for the worst at some point, because…
…otherwise, if the twins are originally a project of Section 13 (which has the support of the Order’s top brass), why would the Order ask Shiro to get ready to kill the babies?
Maybe Yuri ended up realizing she didn’t want her babies to become Satan’s vessels? Or the twins turned out to be way more powerful than expected? Or she didn’t know what the plan was initially and when she found out, she turned out to be against it? Could be why Satan possibly burned her to death…
I don’t know but there has to be a twist to the twins’ existence somehow, because the flashback is really building up to this and also because we know that learning about the truth in alternative universes didn’t help with Yukio’s issues at all.
I just can’t see something physical between Satan and Yuri, even less the violent alternative of it not being consensual if it somehow happens so, eh, let’s go with the science option for now.
I think Yuri still doesn’t realize how bad section 13 is. She eventually finds out and Shiro and Mephy help her escape somehow?
@rottenprincessshura100 Forgot to mention earlier, but honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if Mephisto really didn’t have to force Shiro into raising Yuri’s sons (so Shiro going against the Order for Yuri’s sake => yas). 🙂
There is that deal between them, that if Shiro ever caves in front of a demon, he’ll have to do something for Mephy. However, seeing how bad the situation will probably suck for Yuri considering how kind-hearted + how she indeed doesn’t seem to realize that Section 13 is the worst, I could see Shiro deciding to raise the twins out of love for Yuri but also out of a giant “fuck u” towards the remnants of Section 13.
About Mephy though, he knows everything at anytime, literally speaking, so I’m guessing Mephy not interfering with Yuri’s predicament might be the same as having his authorization and him “helping”. xD
I know several readers in the fandom have this theory that maybe Mephy is the big bad as far as the twins are concerned (and not Satan or the Illuminati), because he’s the chessmaster…
and he controls every development in the story, because he’s always a step ahead and… Honestly it’s a very cool idea.
Hard to pull off, I hope Sensei knows what she’s doing if she’s heading there, but hella impressive if she can manage it, because Mephy is on Assiah’s side, no doubt about that, so for him to be Assiah’s big chance but also the big bad towards the twins’ situation, that’d be amazing writing.
Anyway, I’m rambling, but all that to say that…
Satan, Yuri and Shiro are all a reason the twins exist, but Mephy (omniscient as he is, as Samael), is the one who allowed all of it to take place. So whatever is going to happen to Yuri, Mephy already knew probably way before she was born and is probably going to let stuff unfolds the way he wants it to, for his own plans. Or he plans according to the developments he already knows about (same deal).
He’s a great character: I love to despise him. And I have mad respect for Shura since she’s the only one who constantly calls him out on his bullshit (Arthur too, but it’s less emphasized on). :))
Yup. I must say it bothers me when people blame Shiro for Yukio’s depression- I’ve seen a lot of people hating him for not doing a better job, but honestly, I don’t think he could have done any better given the situation? I’m sure he pushed the kid too hard at times, but a) he was most likely under direct orders if not a death contract from Mephisto, and b) Rin IS, no matter how you turn it, a very dangerous demon. He’s friendly, but as Shiro has witnessed before, even a friendly demon in a bad mood can cause a huge amount of destruction. And Yukio was scared and weak. Can you blame the man for trying to toughen him up, keep him safe? Especially given his own background- he managed to regain, or rather, reclaim his humanity and tried to be the best “Yuri” he could be- In order to give her kids what she gave him.
Had Shiro lived longer, I think I might have been able to steer Yukio in another direction (or at least give the boy a slap and a hug like he ought to)… But then again, that is exactly why he had to die.
You probably don’t mean me with this post, since I don’t hate Shiro at all. But I think partially blaming him for what has occurred is an understandable conclusion. I expect that Shiro will be eventually vindicated, but for now we don’t have that information.
I’ve seen the word “depression” used to describe Yukio’s situation for a while now, but I don’t think it’s the right word. Depression describes a mental health condition that is defined by the lack of dependence on circumstance. Yukio’s mental state was degraded by external factors. Shiro’s death, Rin’s awakening and enrollment in cram school, and Yukio’s promotion to teacher are all events that have significantly affected Yukio since chapter 2. His mental fragility systematically increased after his fights with Toudou, discovering the Satan blue eyes, and his conversations with Shima and Lucifer. While Yukio’s conceal-don’t-feel attitude has been called out since chapter 15 as making him vulnerable, it took a lot to drive him to the edge.
Shiro had his own issues, but he had fifty years to work on them. He had good reason not to screw up on raising the twins, since failing basically meant the death of everyone on Earth. And at the end of the day, he was the adult, and Rin and Yukio were children.
I honestly believe Shiro did recognize the problems with Yukio. I mean, Shura picked up on Yukio’s issues within just two weeks of hanging around him, and Shiro is not an idiot. We’ve also seen that Shiro took corrective action routinely with Rin, so surely there had to have been attempts to deal with Yukio. Unfortunately the only person who can remember those attempts is Yukio, who currently has tunnel vision. But this is only theory right now. Kato has tried to show that Rin and Yukio were treated differently and said in the interviews that Shiro is harsh in Yukio’s flashbacks.
The authority Mephisto had in the direct actions of raising the twins is still unknown. His orders could’ve been anything from nebulous (”keep these kids from annihilating the planet without killing them”) to detailed (”raise until turn 18 years of age blah blah”). We’ll probably have an answer in a few chapters or so. But I don’t think that the Morinas was explicit beyond don’t talk about Section 13 and all that implies. IMO the blame Shiro holds isn’t for not telling Yukio the truth, but for not intervening on Yukio’s building self-hate and envy of Rin.
I think Shiro made mistakes and could’ve done things better. IMO that makes him an interesting character. He wasn’t daddy Jesus like how the first anime portrayed him. He came from an insanely terrible place and had a tough job. That mitigates the blame, but it’s still there. Well, for now. I really believe Shiro will be vindicated in how he raised both Rin and Yukio, but only near the end of the manga for dramatic reasons.
Oh no, I completely agree! This is basically what I was trying to say, but with more words & nuance 😛 “Depression” was the best summary I could do for Yukio, though it’s more like “existential dread” combined with severe anxiety, guilt, fear and resentment, served with an unfortunate amount of ambition as a cherry on top. It’s not like Shiro never screwed up- Could he have done better? Probably. But given the hand he was dealt I think he’s done a phenomenal job.
It’s true we still don’t know what Mephisto’s involvement was when Shiro took in the twins, but the fact that Shiro seemed well aware that not only was he going to die, but it’s strongly hinted that he knows in what way, or at least that Satan is going to come for Rin, AND the fact that Shiro had the Kamikakushi Key all this time, suggests that he may have taken a similar trip to Rin’s, or at least that Mephisto told him certain things…
Time will tell~ Or actually, Time will sit on his ass eating cupcakes and snickering while watching us stumble around in the dark
Crack theory for now, but what if Yuri was the one who actually managed to put an end to the Blue Night?
Until now, personally I always considered that Mephisto or Lucifer (through deciding to go forward with creating the Illuminati or something) were the ones who were the most likely to manage talking their dad out of destroying more of Assiah for the time being.
((I also wondered about “Shemihaza” (aka most likely Shiemi’s grandmother), as a parallel to Shiemi protecting everyone from Rin’s awakening in ch98, but also because Lucifer himself seemed to be a little receptive to her.))
However, Yuri still remains the only one so far who was ever shown to have any kind of control over “Rinka”
on top of being acknowledged as a very good tamer/exorcist.
…And maybe that’s even how/why she died?
As I said, crack theory, but I would find this a really ironic development because today she’s known/seen in some parts of the Order as “the apostate who gave birth to Satan’s sons”, thus who is maybe held responsible for the blue night, when the truth could turn out to be the opposite.
In a way, it’s really on the same level as Rin and Yukio taking turns believing that Shiro raised them as weapons for the Order (mostly Yukio tho’), when the real reason he decided to take care of them was most likely out of love for Yuri.
Besides, imagine if Yuri’s death is because she wanted to protect her sons/people from Satan’s Blue Night…
Well, going by Mephisto’s irritated and quickly swept away comment in chapter 99…
All the times he DID show Yukio the past ended up biting him in the ass in some way or another.
(General fandom theory is that Mephisto can either see all of time simultaneously, or is able to rewind time and take a different route, like starting a game from a safe point -> Which is what I’m going with, because if he always knew exactly what was going to happen he’d be way overpowered and also bored out of his mind.)
Which adds an extra layer to his sadistic delight in chapter 94:
(“No I don’t have time for this” + walking out on stage = “I told you like twelve times already and every time you fucked shit up so screw you, I’m going to try for a different ending. Menu… save game… Let’s see what happens. LEEEEROYY JEEENKIIIINS”)
And what does Yukio? Aims a gun at Meph, probably would have shot him if someone else didn’t beat him to it, then has a total breakdown, shoots his brother, and runs off to the Illuminati.
Oh man, do you have any idea how many times I have thought of this? xD Someone as vain and greedy and lecherous as Mephisto, who has lived for thousands of years? I bet his reasons for rewinding time vary from absolute catastrophe to really, really petty…
“Huh… Earth is gone. That’s less than optimal. Rewind.” “Dammit I missed the crucifixion. Rewind.” “Maybe I shouldn’t have let this plague thing run wild for so long. Rewind.” “Ok but what if they DID discover how to split atoms? Rewind.” “Shiro got eaten. Rewind.” “Meeting ran late, concert tickets sold out. Dammit. Rewind.” “This guy saw my tail and he’s too useful to kill. Crap. Rewind.” “In hindsight I should have gone with the steak. Rewind.” “Had I been on the bottom of the stairs I would have caught that panty shot. Rewind.” “WHAT DO YOU MEAN I DIDN’T GET THE HIGHSCORE?! Rewind.” “Rin saw me trip and laughed and will tell everyone. Rewind.” “Missed opportunity to make Rin trip. Rewind.”
Ok so I copied this thing into the Headcanons channel of the AnE Discord server, and…
Featuring Ray aka @rizzy-the-mighty, Bluespookyshit aka @blueexorshit, SignsMyPhoneDoesNotRecognize aka @novasunspot and GodlyWhalePeasant who’s blog name I don’t know (if they even have one).
Can we talk about Lucifer’s wish for a durable vessel? This is from ch102:
and the following is from ch104, before
and after Amaimon got his own functional new vessel…
as well as when Satan finally possessed Goro:
I find it’s quite interesting that Lucifer is presented as having a lot of faith about “being rewarded for his suffering” and that one day some sort cosmic justice will give him what he deserves (which is a new functional vessel) when, back then, he was thought to be the highest and most powerful demon to the two worlds of Assiah and Gehenna.
Then Satan finally possessed a vessel and developed an ego but no one (Mephy aside because he exists everywhen) knew who he was at first, yet look at how Mephisto and Amaimon explain Gehenna’s hierarchy now, 20 years later:
So you know, it’s as if… before Satan even technically gained an ego and started to really exist as who he is, Lucifer already believed that there was a greater being (a God) above all of them and he kinda gained the proof of that (the reward to his faith) through Satan’s possession of Goro, 20 years ago.
That eventually led to the creation of the Illuminati, once Section 13 was destroyed (most likely during the Blue Night), and the pursuit of the goals he already was mentioning to Shemihaza which are…
…starting with making sure both he and Satan get a vessel because “it’s fair and there shouldn’t be an Assiah/Gehenna limit”.
So Lucifer, as Gehenna #2 (just like most of the Baals actually), is very faithful to that God that he already believed in before Satan was even conscious of existing & being significant to others + he believes he understands others and that bringing peace to everyone in the form of equality is The Answer.
Facing him in comparison tho’, you’ve got Mephisto, who’s probably jaded about Satan being his Father/God/blahblah, because he’s seen this shit in idk how many timelines and his only priority is for Assiah not to disappear, because humans are interesting and he doesn’t see the point of not being able to enjoy what Assiah and humans can bring to him.
In other words, he’s an absolutely selfish jerk who can casually say that “yes you all are my pawns but you are only worms to me so it’s only fitting I treat you as such”, as well as pretend wanting to give Rin to Satan while also claiming to want to use Rin in order to take down Lucifer. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
And Mephy + other powerful demons created (and are still leading) the True Cross Order, an organization that’s supposed to be about Protecting Humans While Fighting Against Demons but that’s also actually about giving strong vessels to more powerful demons.
So it’s literally
because the contrast between Lucifer & Samael, Illuminati &True Cross Order is huge on every aspect, so honestly I love what Sensei is doing with it, because it’s a total mindfuck (I get why Shima has so much fun spying for both sides, with both sides fully aware + why Yukio said “fuck all of them” xDDD).
Political Position: Libertarian (extremist version)
Goals:
Destroy universe
Better employment conditions for members
More taxes to use for organization
Support science and technology
Body that doesn’t fall apart as an equal right
Higher standards in healthcare (especially better life support machines)
Make “Illuminature” a school subject
Open borders (Gehenna gate)
Famous political quotes:
“Freedom and harmony are the essential factor of happiness for our population. It can only be achieved by unifying the worlds Assiah and Gehenna.”
“Why is it, that we must maintain this state of existance while shouldering such responsibilities and pain?”
“Some of us can’t incarnate into this world without using a human as host. So what happens if you make it illegal, dear True Cross Order? Right, these people can’t incarnate at all. You take away their right to live and the right to live is a basic right. The True Cross Order ist the real enemy of democracy!”
Mephisto
Party: True Cross Japanese Branch (the shameful extremist wing of the True Cross Order)
Name Origin: something with religion
Political position: Anarchist
Goals:
activism against Illuminati
free instant noodles for everyone
disconnect life support
anarchy
Famous political quotes:
“I think peace is surely the disorder where different things exist together!”
“I am the revolution!”
“Fuck the system.”
Gedoin
Party: LLL (Lord Lucifer Love)
Name Origin: Gedoins love for Lucifer
Political position: Far-right authoritarian
Goals:
Legalize experimentation without limits
Legalize forced marriage
Legalize murder
Legalize everything else
Make Gedoin world ruler
Expand territory to entire universe
Press censorship
No human rights
Famous political quotes:
“I WILL KILL YOU!”
“hehehehehahahaahahhaha”
“I hate all humans equally”
“Humans experiment on animals, so it’s only fair humans experiment on humans”
Amaimon and Egyn
Party: BMSB (Broccoli man and shark boy)
Name Origin: Mermaid man and barnacle boy (Spongebob)
Political position: Environmentalist
Goals:
Save the whales (and sharks!)
Bigger punishment on polluting the ocean
Minimize deforestation
Bigger punishments for animal cruelty
Environmental-friendly cars in big cities
Finance new resources of energy (even though they don’t have the money for that)
Make demon cruelty illegal
Famous political quotes:
“Errrm…we want to make our planet healthy and a good place to live I think” -Amaimon
“Amaimon, what do we tell them when they find out we have no strategy for realizing these things?” -Egyn, secretly caught on camera
“To the people who tell me my concept doesn’t work in society – why do you always make me cry :(”
“To the people who tell me I’m too young for politics or to kiss someone older than me – fuck you Shiro!”
“Why would someone harm demons just because they’re another species? They also feel pain! Don’t treat them like trash because no living thing is trash!”
Arthur
Party: PAD (Party against demons)
Name origin: Arthurs hate for demons
Political position: right, conservative
Goals:
Stronger border controls for illegal immigrants from Gehenna (including Mephisto)
More investments in exorcist education
Weapon arsenal for Vatican
Expand Vatican territory
Bigger punishments on crimes committed by demons
Famous political quotes:
“Demons don’t belong to Assiah”
“This campaign is only about me”
“I’m going to build a big wall around Lucifers Gehenna gate and Lucifer is going to pay for it”
Anyway, ch103 is really interesting as a focus on Yuri (16 years old) and Shiro’s (22 years old) dynamic, because we found out it gradually got better over time. I’m now looking forward to how they managed from “awkward confession” (29 years ago) to Yuri still casually flirting with him, like when he brought Shura to her (18 years ago). And if Shiro ever caved, of course.
What’s even more interesting though is that, despite that we already knew “rinka” had a special attachment to Yuri, it’s to the point that now it seems to sense whenever she’s not okay, be it physically (protecting her from Shiro’s wrath) or emotionally (after Shiro rejected her).
And actually I thought maybe that’s why eventually it ended up becoming Satan through possessing a human (Goro) and developing an ego?
Because maybe initially lil “rinka” just wanted to cheer Yuri up, it’s just that developing an ego through possessing a human made him, well, the horrible demon God we met a few times.
Just like Mephisto explained for the rest of them Baals.
Honestly, I think Goro being possessed (the cliffhanger of ch103) was around 29 years ago and, besides a probably huge boom inside Section 13, nothing else happened with him, Satan, or Yuri back then.
My evidence of this is Arthur because he was already born and probably a teenager when the Blue Night happened:
and also in general the Blue Night matches with the twins’ birth 16 years ago:
because that’s when Suguro Tatsuma’s dad, Shima Takezou and Konekomaru’s father all died.
Moving on, I still think that Shiro is possibly the twins’ biological dad, even if how/when while including Satan in the equation is a bit hard to figure out entirely for now (and assuming of course that the Order is not wrong about who hosted Satan between Yuri and the dad). xD
Clearly though, Yuri never stopped loving him and, if Shura was so jealous of Yuri for years, it could be that even as a kid she noticed that Shiro was obviously taken by her too.
Doesn’t mean Shiro ever caved, of course, but I find interesting that he was still a very cold guy when he just got Shura (18 years ago) and yet with Tatsuma…
he seemed less aggressive, more helpful and similar to the man we met as Rin’s foster dad (16/17 years ago). Mentioning this moment btw, I doubt Shiro knew back then whose kid he was supposed to kill with that sword.
Finally, there is Mephisto’s constant warning about the flashback ending “in tragedy”, but Rin already knows that, having never met his mother? So why would Mephy warn him several times? Because something will happen between Shiro & Yuri and Rin should keep in mind that it will end badly anyway?
I don’t know for sure, but for now it does seem like Yuri wouldn’t have minded having a family with Shiro, if ch89 is an indication of anything.
And if Shiro caved at some point (maybe taking care of Shura, a kid, made him realize some stuff, idk), that could explain why he seems genuinely different and less cold when he met Suguro Tatsuma.
Last thing: if Shiro is the twins’ dad, the question is did he ever know? There are plenty of reasons he would not have been able to kill Yuri’s sons, the fact he loved her being the most prominent, but whether he knew or not…
I’m guessing the favor he owed Mephisto, should he yield to a demon (baby demon Rin or possessed-by-Satan!Yuri?), would have forced him to raise the twins as “weapons for the Order” anyway.
What I mean is, if Shiro didn’t know, then Mephisto just had to ask him to raise the twins and then the rest is history. However, if Shiro knew he was the biological dad to Satan’s sons, Mephisto could have forbidden him from ever telling them as a part of that favor.
Because clearly Mephisto is the one who allowed the twins’ existence. It means that whether Shiro wanted to raise them from the beginning or was forced to, he had to obey Mephisto on some stuff no matter what (especially since we don’t know what conditions his Morinas’ contract could have been updated with).
I like Shiro raising the twins out of love for Yuri, it’s really beautiful, but I also like the twist that he might really be their biological dad because, be it for Rin…
or Yukio…
that possible truth is going to be very hard to swallow.
Sorry for the long post, I just can’t wait to find out. 😀
midnight-in-town 