I’m struggling to interpret our Ciel’s line in ch 137, “I … in exchange for your soul … will become the Ciel you wanted to be,” because that phrase in English sounds very self-sacrificing. It sounds like our Ciel is doing it for real Ciel’s sake, not his own. But in the green witch arc our Ciel says he did it for his own sake. Does the original Japanese line sound different?

akumadeenglish:

Nope, the original Japanese line is exactly the same!

君と同じ顔をした僕が – “I, who has the same face as yours,”

君の魂と引き換えに – “in exchange for your soul”

君が願った君になる – “will become “you” who you wanted to be.”


As for the question whether it was for RC’s sake or for OC’s own sake, at first glance OC’s decision in the latest chapter may seem self-sacrificing, however, if you really think about it, it’s actually not! In fact, it was a selfish decision OC made for himself because RC never asked his little brother to avenge him nor to succeed his wish after his death. Becoming “Ciel” was OC’s own idea he himself came up with, his own decision – something no one asked him to do. Therefore, claiming “it was for RC” would be nothing but “selfishness of the survivors / luxury of the living” – as stated by OC himself in ch8: 

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And this is precisely what I love about OC so much! He fully knows what he’s doing and takes full responsibility for his own actions. He doesn’t pass the buck by using the excuse “But I did all this for you!!!!!”.

I totally agree, that’s why you can see a big difference in our!Ciel’s speech when it comes to revenge throughout the years. Initially he said…

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…which might be interpreted as “I want revenge because the Ciel I became would have wanted it”, but then in ch95 he also said…

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and I really think he didn’t lie in this part of the chapter. 

That’s why confronting his brother in this arc is important in my opinion, because the current “Earl Ciel Phantomhive” became more about him than about his brother, despite the initial attempt to make it all about his brother. Just my take on it, tho.

What are your thoughts on our Ciel self-esteem (both past & present)? I don’t think it’s that bad as everyone claims to be, because what he stated in the latest chapter was not enterely wrong and our Ciel now is a pretty confident person (even though he still has to work on it) so I’d like to hear your thoughts on it!

Hello Anon! I don’t know though, you tell me…

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Because when I read this, I think our!Ciel’s self-esteem was rather very low, which would be why we’ve been talking about him having an inferiority complex as well as survivor’s guilt? 

As for currently…

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He does sound like he still has a rather crappy vision of himself, so I’m afraid it’s as bad as everyone claims it to be. :/

The thing is, I think it’s very important not to confuse our!Ciel’s “self-esteem” with his “resolve” based on his duality about initially wanting to make it all about his brother, except that it became mostly about him over the years:

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Our!Ciel’s low self-esteem implies that he thinks he’s a horrible human being mainly because “he sacrificed his brother” (when Seb more or less put this idea in his head because that’s not what happened), which means that he probably sees the contract as a fitting punishment for “the horrible person he is”

This also implies, as Soma pointed out in ch126, that he’s terrified of being happy because he didn’t come back for that and he thinks he “doesn’t deserve it” anyway.

About our!Ciel’s resolve now though, it’s definitely one of his strong points as a character compared to his self-esteem, which is possibly what you meant by “self-confidence”:

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Because considering what he went through, it’s really impressive that he decided to take on whatever he had to in order to make things right for his family (ch137) and then also for himself (since I don’t think he lied about that specific part in ch95), when a big part of himself probably just wanted to hide and never face the world again (as we could see during his PTSD episode of the Green Witch arc).

Obviously though, his low self-esteem and his strong resolve are linked, which is why he’s such an interesting character in the first place, since it’s because he has such a crappy vision of himself that he believes he has to make things right using all that he can, until the day his punishment finally comes in the form of Seb taking his soul too. 


TL;DR 4 years ago, our!Ciel convinced himself that he was a useless person who sacrificed his brother and that, both for his remaining family’s sake as well as real!Ciel’s, he should dedicate his life to becoming his brother and taking revenge for his sake (that’s the low self-esteem part). 

However, the strength he found within himself to do all of that…

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always always always was his from the very first day onward and that’s his resolve. 

So Anon, in the newest chapter, our!Ciel was wrong because he didn’t sacrifice his brother and his family would have

obviously

welcomed him back very happily. That he convinced himself otherwise is all about having an extremely low self-esteem due to survivor’s guilt, or so I think for now. :3

I hope it answers your question, sorry for rambling and you have every right not to agree as always. Have a nice day! 

In the flashback from the Campania arc, we see Sebastian try to trick OCiel into saying he’s satisfied, probably so that Sebastian would then be able to eat OCiel’s soul. That scene always confused me, wouldn’t eating his soul before OCiel accomplished his revenge break the terms of the contract? Would the contract end immediately if OCiel just said he was giving up on revenge?

akumadeenglish:

Yep, exactly!

We’ve seen that twice in the manga:

ch63 (the scene you mentioned)

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and ch94

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“Abandoning your revenge partway is a breach of contract.”

and Yana confirmed it on twitter, too:

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“… [Sebastian] is like ’I love seeing [Ciel] grovel and suffer! But I’ll kill him the moment he gives up [on his revenge]!’ …”

midnight-in-town:

“Survivor’s guilt is a mental condition that occurs when a person believes they have done something wrong by surviving a traumatic event when others did not.” [x]

And that’s all you need to know why “Earl Ciel Phantomhive” came to be born while our!Ciel’s true identity died with his brother: survivor’s guilt made our!Ciel believe that his brother died in his stead, his brother whom he saw as the strongest for a long time and who wanted the power to protect the two of them. 

So he acquired more power than anyone else through contracting Sebastian and that’s how “Ciel Phantomhive” could be reborn even after he died in his little brother’s stead. 

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Hi Anon! Well, first of all, Ciel was not particularly honest with himself in ch95, in my opinion…

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…because he risked his life for Lizzie’s more than once. Call it a lie or a contradiction, for me that means we should be careful with what Ciel screamed during that chapter. 

That being said, I definitely think he wasn’t lying when he said…

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…for two reasons:

  1. the contract is a mean to a revenge he is exacting for himself but it’s also something our!Ciel sees as a punishment
  2. the more we see of this flashback, the more I have the feeling that “Earl Ciel Phantomhive” represents a fusion between the twins, so for “himself” would actually mean “for real!Ciel + for our!Ciel”.

#1, I already explained here. 🙂

About #2, I think it might make more sense if you read @thedarkestcrow​‘s take on why our!Ciel took his brother’s identity first, because for now I think that it’s precisely what our!Ciel initially intended to do: he was the spare/extra to their father’s heir, he thought his brother had died “in his stead”, he gained a power stronger than everyone else (Seb), so he tried to keep his brother “alive”. 

However, the problem with this decision is that you cannot erase your own identity that easily.

Our!Ciel tried to become his brother, because of survivor’s guilt, because he wanted to keep the image of his strong brother living…

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but our!Ciel’s true self was still there too. In the first place, stealing his brother’s identity was mostly a deception for himself and not for other people, so that he would manage to be strong for the two of them, but…

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if he built the Funtom company, which was our!Ciel’s personal dream as a child if you remember, it must have been for himself and not for his brother. 

Similarly, there is how Soma described him, very accurately in my opinion:

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our!Ciel is terrified to be happy because he’s supposed to be acting as his brother’s spare (since that’s how he sees himself + survivor’s guilt), so caring about Lizzie and Soma (for example) as much as he does with his own feelings and not because he’s supposed to be his brother is another contradiction to his decision to live as his brother’s spare, out of guilt.

In other words, what Soma explained in ch126 is our!Ciel being inwardly conflicted between how he decided to live 4 years ago (as his brother’s spare) and what he, as himself, a person separate and different from his brother, felt ever since.

In my opinion, that’s the reason why we could see two “Ciels” during his PTSD episode of the GW arc. 

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The two Ciels do represent himself and his brother but in fact, both are a part of who he currently is, both are what makes “Earl Ciel Phantomhive” and that’s why I’m convinced that Yana will never give her main character any other identity besides “Earl Ciel Phantomhive” for as long as he lives. 

So when he found his resolve in ch95 and said that it was all “just for himself”, well, yes it’s true, but himself = both twins now, he just hasn’t realized that yet.

I hope it answers your question? Have a nice day Anon. 🙂