Hi Anon! Yeah, I noticed the Queen is one of the few who never called Ciel by his name, the others being UT, Tanaka and Seb. 🙂
I always wondered if that was because she knew the truth (like Tanaka or Seb), or if that’s because she’s his master and is not using his name on purpose because he’s just her dog or something (kinda like UT, who either guessed about the change of identity or who simply doesn’t care since “they’re all Phantomhives to me anyway” and he called Vincent “Earl” too).
About what John Brown said though…
In my opinion, he’s directly referring to our!Ciel trying to double cross the Queen by hiding the SuLIN Sieglinde created, which is what they wanted for their war plans.
So Brown is half-calling him out and half-threatening him by comparing him to Vincent, who was probably murdered because he too messed up somewhere with the Queen. I made a longer explanatory post here if you want. 🙂
Also Brown can’t exactly be talking about real!Ciel here, since the subject was “what did our!Ciel do in Germany”. It would make no sense of Brown to casually drop a comment about the twin when they were talking about Ciel bringing Sieglinde back and hiding a very deadly war weapon, in my opinion.
I hope it answers your question, have a nice day Anon. :))
soooo @hitsugikuro, remember when we discussed UT’s ring and your post about the “fleur-de-lys” pattern on it? Well, if UT’s ring and the Phantomhive ring aren’t linked together (since the Phantomhive ring also has this pattern), I think I will eat one of my shoes. xD
I dare say that I personally always thought that the Shinigami organization might not allow newcomers to keep on personal effects from their previous life (since being a Shinigami is a punishment), so what if UT’s ring was initially not UT’s ring because it used to belong to the Phantomhive family?
This screams Claudia or Vincent there again, but I so wouldn’t be surprised if somehow initially there were 2 Phantomhive rings (one for the Earl and one for his lady, for example) and UT was given one of them, sometimes during the last 50 years.
Otherwise maybe UT was one of the very first Phantomhives before he killed himself.
Hi Anon who read my tags! xD Well, there are two reasons for this answer and they’re linked: it’s the post above and also this post.
Initially, this crack theory comes from the fact that UT’s ring is missing in ch108 and the twin apparently doesn’t have it (see the post I linked to). So unless it’s all Yana’s mistake or UT simply didn’t wear it that day for a reason in particular, it means that someone else currently has UT’s ring.
As for why I think (very not seriously) that it might be with Lizzie, it’s because, as I stated above, I think it’s possible that this ring originally was from the Phantomhive family and UT received it as… some kind of romantic/friendly gesture, probably from Claudia.
And well, you see, in terms of symbolism…
Lizzie does seem to have a lot in common with these skeletons wearing roses and a crown of thorns that are associated to both Ciel and UT.
Roses and thorns being the symbols of the Phantomhive family, the skeleton with UT is possibly Claudia’s, so if Lizzie = skeleton!Claudia while Ciel = UT for the relationship parallel…
…I was just theorizing wildly that maybe the twin isn’t the only person UT visited at the Sphere music hall and he gave Lizzie his Phantomhive ring… because she was sad, or because they talked, or for one reason or another really.
Lastly, to be honest I’m kinda desperate for any canon interaction between UT and Lizzie at this point, so my mind just gave birth to that idea and I have to admit that, even if it’s most likely going to be wrong, I like it a lot. 😀
Maybe it’s just Yana’s mistake, maybe there is a more complex explanation buuut until we know more, have this crack theory if you like it! xD
I hope it answers your question, have a nice day Anon!
Whenever Ciel met with Queen Victoria for a private audience…
she was always with just the Double Charles…
John Brown was nowhere to be seen…
even though he might generally show up after the audience was over with…
But you know, it makes sense since he’s described as her aide, maybe he supposedly doesn’t have his place whenever the Queen meets with her watchdog, which is why only her butlers stay.
EXCEPT…
…in ch108, because it went the other way around when the Queen met with Sieglinde and they discussed possibilities for war weapons. This time the Double Charles didn’t stay but John Brown did and assisted to the meeting with Sieglinde.
It’s also at the same time that he said this…
…after Ciel tried to double cross them and to hide from the Queen the true nature of Sieglinde’s latest invention.
Conclusion?Nothing new, but just to add on the theory that Brown is probably not just a simple “aide” to Victoria, but rather one of the main reasons…
Whenever Ciel met with Queen Victoria for a private audience…
she was always with just the Double Charles…
John Brown was nowhere to be seen…
even though he might generally show up after the audience was over with…
But you know, it makes sense since he’s described as her aide, maybe he supposedly doesn’t have his place whenever the Queen meets with her watchdog, which is why only her butlers stay.
EXCEPT…
…in ch108, because it went the other way around when the Queen met with Sieglinde and they discussed possibilities for war weapons. This time the Double Charles didn’t stay but John Brown did and assisted to the meeting with Sieglinde.
It’s also at the same time that he said this…
…after Ciel tried to double cross them and to hide from the Queen the true nature of Sieglinde’s latest invention.
Conclusion?Nothing new, but just to add on the theory that Brown is probably not just a simple “aide” to Victoria, but rather one of the main reasons…
As a follow up to this post about what the family lineage might be.
I definitely spoke about this before, when ch108 came out and for an old analysis I did of Frances’ character, but it’s been over two years since then and lately I was wondering once more…
…if what awoke within Ciel during the arc in Germany, allowing him to see the Shinigamis, was activated only from time to time or became permanent.
Thus here’s a reminder of the parallel between Frances and Ciel both staring at Seb’s face for no particular reason (Ciel more than Frances, since he literally said it was nothing when Frances called Seb names afterwards), when they both share the Phantomhive lineage.
I can’t be sure whether it was made on purpose or not (I do agree it sounds super random though), but I personally always took that part (above) from ch108 as a possible hint that the lineage thing somehow activated in ch103 and is now permanent, meaning that Ciel’s eyes can see things that he couldn’t before:
like shinigamis even when they’re supposedly hiding themselves from humans
and possibly even through Seb’s human disguise as well.
TL;DR what runs for generations in the Phantomhive family may be the ability to spot either just Shinigamis or supernatural beings in general, and:
Many people believe she might know, since Victoria has expressed an interest in the Bizarre Dolls it seems possible that she might have an involvement with RC’s situation. You’re right in wondering if she has ever addressed Our Ciel by name, because she hasn’t!
I could give more examples but if you look through the manga you’ll see she always addresses him with “my boy”, “dearest boy”, etc.
About the panel below, it also seems interesting that she doesn’t mention OC’s brother here? If she was aware that he was still alive then that could be an explanation:
I like to think she does know, her role in the story is pretty unclear at the moment so that could be interesting.
EDIT: Oh! There is additionally this scene, I was wondering if it’s dumb to suggest that the ‘Ciel’ they mention in this conversation wasn’t OC but RC lol? That’s probably a stupid idea.
But it is Victoria who says “we have high hopes for him” and I wonder what she means by it, OC’s reaction is weird too but I always thought he reacted in that way because of his false identity. Hmmm…
If only we knew. That’s one of the big questions during this arc. At the moment I believe that Undertaker wanted to delay the ‘awakening’ of the twin in order to get more time for his own plans. I don’t believe he’s working together with the sect but rather does his own thing. So the liquid could have been some sort of medicine that slowed down the process of making the twin into a perfect Bizarre Doll (if that’s what he is). That could explain why the twin’s state seemed worse after UT’s visit while his arms seemed perfectly healthy during his visit.
Hey Anon! That is correct, I believe the Ciel of ch108 is our!Ciel and not the Real!Ciel (that is, if the 2CT is correct) as I exchanged with another Anon here. 🙂
About ch113 and Lord Sirius: First of all the Ciel of ch113 isn’t Lord Sirius or Real!Ciel…
because that Ciel is sound asleep thanks to the sleeping gas he inhaled
all that in order to take some of his blood, which means it’s our!Ciel for sure.
Besides, as we could see in ch115, Lord Sirius who was in the same room and chair as our!Ciel in ch113 was completely awake when Violet came to give his blood…
…meaning they make guests sleep so they won’t realize they have their blood collected, but in Sirius’ case, since s/he’s a part of that scheme, they have no reason to make him/her sleep.
There is also the simple fact that seeing in which state Lord Sirius’ arm is in ch115, it just can’t be the same person as in ch113 (because blood transfusion won’t suddenly make this person’s arm look entirely different, if we’re rational of course).
As for Lord Sirius not being Ciel’s twin: I personally still think they are different persons and that the varicose veins Sirius is showing indicates s/he’s certainly not as young as Ciel’s possible twin would be (because if we follow the 2CT, the twin died when they were 10 years old, so even theorizing that UT turned him into a BD, it wouldn’t explain his arms looking like that, or his hands being as big as Violet’s, who’s an adult).
To be honest, I can only affirm that I really think the Ciel in ch108 and ch113 are our!Ciel without many doubts (for me), but I can’t really give you proof that Sirius can’t be Ciel’s possible twin, even if I just don’t consider it to be that way personally right now.
Also, since we’re on the subject, last month I exchanged with two Anons [x] [x] about a theory for this panel…
Because UT’s attitude is surprising to say the least and I’m not entirely sure this is in reference to the scene of ch108.
Anyway, one of these Anons proposed the idea that the 4 Lords (that some readers theorized to be all linked to Ciel) were in fact all linked to UT (as 4 of the people represented by his lockets). Personally, I like that theory because it would make more sense to have this be about UT rather than Ciel, since UT is most likely involved with what’s going on in the Sphere music hall.
So, while you could imagine he organized all this with Bravat only to make Ciel feel miserable (by bringing back Doll, Madam Red, his twin and Joker if I remember the theory correctly), it seems like a lot of trouble when we know he has his own goal of bringing back people he cherished in particular.
I hope that makes sense Anon! I know the possibility is high that the 2CT might be true, however I just don’t think it will be confirmed or denied in this arc because we already have all the truth about UT to learn about (and there isn’t many doubts we will get answers about him considering Othello’s character and “50 years ago”).
Sorry this got so long, I hope I answered your question Anon 🙂
midnight-in-town 