WARNING: Thing you’re about to read is huge crack-pot written in very bad English with user who doesn’t know how to get to actual point and drags things on. Also this user is slightly under influence of alcohol. You have been warned.
I have been thinking about this for quite a while now but didn’t saw anyone else having this thought as well so might be one to pull officially trigger first.
What if Itori is “the witch”. What if Hide is child of Itori.
For a very bad start, they’re lot alike to each other in lot of ways. But I shall give one example:
Tokyo Ghoul has quite a bunch of parallels to Ishida’s other work The Penisman and guess who is ‘mama’ in The Penisman to Hide-looking character:
Ok this all hints on her being possibly related to Hide. But what does this have to do with her being “witch”? Well…. her mask.
Tell me something, does this mask reminds you on anything in particular? Anything at all? Look at it. Doesn’t it reminds you on …. witch? Isn’t this how witches often are described to look in fairy tales usually?
Not to mention that Hide’s witch’s servant costume looks awfully clownish as well.
Other thing noted about witches in fairy tales is that they tend to be quite old. Usually taking form of beautiful young women to disguise themselves. And Itori is hinted to be perhaps grandma with her introduction
And with referring to Roma as her younger protegee. (And Roma was 51+ year old lady if I might remind on it). So makes you wonder about Itori even further.
But who would be father of Hide? Taking into account that Itori might be way older then she appears (older then Roma) and that Hide-looking character from The Penisman has Itori-looking character (normal human) as mother and giant penis (mutant) as father then…. Nagaraj might be his dad.
Other thing that would make me suspect Hide being possibly related to Underground King (if Itori is truly his mother) are three dots he has on his shirt as Scarecrow as well as in Ishida’s art of him that we have seen kids from underground having as well.
This makes me further believe that Hide has some sort of connection with 24th Ward. One of which him being possibly related to infamous Underground King.
Last small thing to make me think of Nagaraj and Hide being related is “Naga” part as Hide’s last name consists of Nagachika.
(As for identity of possible 100 year one eye, I suggest giving a read to this theory.)
Back onto my own crack-pot thing.
Biggest questions with this would be “But Hide is a human. He ate human food. Wouldn’t half-ghoul and ghoul have ghoul child?” -for human food we already saw Eto who is half ghoul consuming human food and as for “human” thing in general since we’re talking about Hide possibly coming from 24th Ward then lets all remember one little thing about residents of said 24th Ward:
… they don’t consider themselves as ghouls and they truly very well might not be “ghouls” but some sort of hybrids. In remake chapter Ishida even teases us with possibility of Hide not being exactly human per say.
“But Hide is wearing mask because his face is most likely scarred from Kaneki. So shouldn’t this shoot down possibility of him possibly being ¾ ghoul?” -considering we had ghouls with scars, then it would not be that unusual thing. We have to keep in mind that there is limit to ghoul’s regeneration (as seen with Noro), so perhaps if that limit has been breached it results in more permanent damage.
Too long to cut it short: This is huge crack-pot. I do believe in Itori and Hide being related but I’m not that certain in “dad” thing.
I don’t necessarily agree with everything you stated, but if that’s alright, I wanted to add a few things to what you said about Hide’s link to the 24th ward and maybe to Itori. Obviously, we’re talking about a crack theory, so everything should be taken with a big grain of salt, but I do think, like you, that Itori’s mask foreshadows something big about her and I also have doubts about how old she is for the reasons you pointed out. 🙂
Moving on, about Hide, I do think that the three dots are a hint that he has a link to the 24th ward and thus that he might have a link with the 3 kids Ayato met, but specifically now about these kids:
Don’t they remind you of someone?
Because maybe I’m biased, but I find there is a resemblance there and Itori always seemed fairly knowledgeable on “hybrids” in the first place.
Also remember Hide’s make up as the Witch’s apprentice in that play? Well, we saw it on someone else:
It was Ganbo, the Clown who was with Uta and Roma during the Auction arc, the one Takeomi killed with his bare hands. And, there was also one other interesting thing in the Auction arc about the Clowns:
That little house from the auction that the Clowns made appear, because I find it resembles a “helter skelter”, which coincidentally is the name of Itori’s bar.
Frankly I would have never seriously considered a link between Hide and Itori before Ishida’s recent drawing of Hide with the three dots (@Anon who asked me about this a few months ago, I apologize for possibly letting you down ://), but if she’s indeed “the Witch” instead of Eto (still not 100% sure of this tho), considering the amount of things that Hide knows…
and how he kept lurking around from the beginning, maybe he indeed learnt from someone how to gather information.
So, food for thoughts definitely, but those little unexplained hints/similarities have started to pile up in my opinion, so I might as well add to your crack theory with them. xD Btw, when I said I didn’t agree with eveything, it’s because I’m not sure that the Nagaraj had kids, doesn’t seem like the character considering who I think it is (thanks for mentioning my theory about him too :3).
Thanks for writing all of this in the first place, I feel less crazy being the only one starting to consider that there might be a link between Hide and Itori!
So for once I’m going to make a meta on how things might not be as bad as they look. It’s shocking, I know. There’s something I’ve noticed though, that was revealed this chapter that I have not seen anybody else talking about.
That the narrator who carries such an objective and flourishing style in narration that was almost absent from Tokyo Ghoul with the exception of the end of chapter and beginning of chapter brief segments, is none other than Furuta himself. Not only that but for most of the time, these narrations are completely objective and more descriptive of the situation around him rather than Furuta’s actual thoughts and emotions.
Clickbait title: why is naki going to survive? Find out below.
LOL oh, but you’re misunderstanding me Anon :)) Obviously Uta is everyone, including Hide, but still, Uta is no puppetmaster, nor are all the characters that he impersonates. Uta is a troll and an observer, but even if he transcends everything, he’s not 100% responsible of everything that happened which is why he’s no puppetmaster. xDD
MORE SERIOUSLY THO Anon, about the “Uta is the birdcage itself” part of your joke, I’ve been wondering lately about how accurate this kind of statement might be (not in the literal sense obviously), because I’m wondering if the old OEK is not one of the Clowns, since Roma said:
I know that I wrote that crack theory about the old OEK being Noro but I’m not 100% convinced yet, mostly because Kaneki’s side is convinced that the previous OEK is still alive.
So anyway, my initial suspect about the OEK being one of the Clowns was Itori because…
amongst all the subjects that she was knowledgeable about (”the truth”, the hybrids, also her calling Roma “her protégée”), but recently I’ve been wondering about Uta as the OEK because…
because (a tattoo to cover that he had only one kakugan)
Because (the tattoos’ meaning??)
BECAUSE (skull symbolism fits)
BECAUSE
AND
Finally…
…such an ideology would fit the figure of the OEK as we’ve seen with Kaneki who’s striving for coexistence.
SO ANON YOU SEE I DON’T KNOW FOR SURE BUT I’M ACTUALLY REALLY SUSPICIOUS OF UTA BEING THE PREVIOUS ONE EYED KING AND THUS BEING AT THE HEART OF THE CURRENT PLOT.
Of course this doesn’t make a lot of sense with the flashback in TG vol 12 that he told Kaneki about him and Yomo, but it’s Uta and he could have lied, or there is a way around the flashback and we just haven’t figured out what it is yet.
TL;DR the previous OEK seems to be the reason the birdcage was created so if Uta is the previous OEK then “Uta is the birdcage itself” isn’t a completely wrong statement in itself Anon.
So you see that’s why I really like to prank people with Uta because I’m quite sure that he has a big role to play aaaand the fact that he’s currently my n°1 suspect for “who’s the previous OEK” isn’t helping.
Thanks for passing by Anon and nice try with the joke-that-might-in-fact-not-be-one. :3 Have a nice day!
Hello! Yes, it is indeed very likely for at least Seidou (since he was tortured like crazy by Kanou to “make a new Kaneki”), if not for all the other artificial OEGs of the series to have a similar issue to Kaneki’s, although I think the Qs are different, because they are protected by the different frames around the kakuhou that they release one after the other.
And yep, Kanou definitely is aware of the aging problem but he doesn’t seem to care as long as he can experiment…
So it’s definitely not good news for Seidou (which is why I’m hoping he and Akira and Amon will talk before it’s too late). Kurona is probably in a similar state, when you see how crazy she was until the Rushima arc
Amon apparently cannibalized to survive however…
so he’s probably less at risk than the others for now, if Nishiki’s reasoning is accurate.
Finally about the Qs, the way they were operated on certainly is peculiar and taught Kanou a great deal…
so it’s possible that Kanou might have found a different way to create artificial OEGs without the aging problem. At this point, I’m thinking that the frames that the Qs have might be one solution to the issue, since unless they completely break through the frames around the kakuhou, they can eat human food and remain with a stable Rc cells rate (which is why they’re not described as OEGs in the first place).
Besides, Kanou certainly improved when you see how the Oggai are made…
not with 5 frames, but only with two (A and B, switching from one kakugan to two).
Going further, it’s just a theory of mine at this point, but maybe Kanou and Furuta have been getting along for a while, because ultimately Kanou is trying to find a way to solve the aging issues for the hybrid kids who are from the Sunlit Garden (seeing as Furuta is one himself and we know they’re bound to be slaves to the CCG).
You see, Kanou once explained this back in TG…
so we know that his research is linked to “the regenerating and propagating abilities continuing as long as the nutrient supply isn’t eradicated”, which directly ties to the telomere issues for the artificial OEGs like Kaneki…
…since Kaneki, because he’s originally human, can’t keep on regenerating forever because it’s speeding his aging process along (although, note how Kanou refers to Kaneki as a model to recreate, so again, between that and Eto giving him a gift after the Roze arc, I’m pretty sure there is something to uncover here).
I intend on rereading TG and :Re for all the biological explanations during next week if I find the time, so my ideas will surely be more refined then, but basically, this is what Kanou once said to Kurona…
And I think that Kanou’s ghoulification research is probably about finding a “cure” to the following problem…
…because most of hybrid beings suffer from this (seeing as cases like Eto, who are naturally born as one eyed ghouls and thus not having the aging problem, are very rare) and it also represents the supposed inability for ghouls and humans to coexist with each other, which in turn is the reason why the world is locked in a twisted cage.
Remember that V was apparently formed to eradicate the threat of the previous OEG (who was surely a naturally born one eyed ghoul, like Eto)…
and ever since then, without any OEG until Eto, the world rested onto a twisted “equilibrium” (apparently enforced by V): ghouls and humans being two different parts of the same world but never being allowed to mix, and even if they did, the hybrid children resulting of this union wouldn’t live long anyway.
So I’m thinking maybe Kanou, to break free from the twisted cage built along with this “equilibrium” (aka ghouls and humans can’t coexist because too different), is trying to find a way to reduce/eliminate the differences between ghouls and humans on a biological level, so that the pretext that they are two different species unable to live together won’t hold anymore. Which in turn will make way for coexistence, especially if Furuta makes sure to become a super villain that needs to be defeated by a big hero (Kaneki).
And guess who is the ghoul who’s currently pregnant with a hybrid baby?
Somehow it all ties back to a similar plot thread. There is a link between humans and ghouls, but there are also differences to understand before coexistence starts being possible, and I think that’s what Kanou’s awful experiments were about from the beginning.
As I said though, it’s a very big theory and I need to refine it a little by rereading every part about TG biology next week if I find the time. …All that to say there is a high chance that Kanou isn’t this senseless asshole that everyone made him to be and, if Furuta and him have been pals for so long, it’s probably because they see eye to eye about this world being twisted and not the way it should be…
And it would explain why Kanou really disliked how the CCG used to do things back when the Washuus were still the ones having power, which is why he betrayed and went as far as to join Aogiri to keep experimenting.
Hopefully, it will be made clearer soon if I can reread all the things I want to reread before next weekend. Sorry for all the rambling, I hope it answers your question.
Have a nice weekend!
This would also explain why Kimi decided to join him. Because she still wants to be together with Nishiki.
Now I’m getting curious about Kanou, if he ever found out that Kaneki (his masterpiece) will have a hybrid kid sometime in the future… if the oggai don’t destroy that.
Ah, excellent point! I know there is a theory that Kimi might be dead (and revived by Kanou), but it doesn’t seem to entirely work when it comes to the timeline. Anyway, the great wheel act explained Kimi’s motivations before…
So if Kanou is indeed working to introduce coexistence into this world, that would explain why Kimi would join him, despite his terrible methods.
Also, I can’t help but tie what Kanou once said about “the hidden reality” to what Itori also said a long time ago…
So if V/the Washuus truly locked the world into “this twisted cage” (aka ghouls and humans not being allowed to mix/live together) back when they fought against the previous OEG (the one before Eto), and held onto their equilibrium ever since, there is a chance that things between humans and ghouls were different at the time of the previous OEG.
That would explain why…
…these kids think they’re “humans” and in that case this theory by @kingkishou might also be accurate.
Hello 🙂 They weren’t my metas at all but links towards @kingkishou’s. I totally agree that they are interesting and enjoyable though.
About Touka’s pregnancy, since it seems eating human food is useless, I do think she will have to take this matter to someone else and this someone else could be:
The Great wheel act => they have doctors and overall they want to help ghouls so who knows if they might not have a few ideas to try, yes. Besides, Kimi was a part of them and…
So since Nishiki himself seems well aware of the difference between humans and ghouls (see his explanation in :Re ch131), who knows if the Great Wheel act might not have a few clues that might be helpful for Touka’s pregnancy.
Kanou => just like with Akira, he’s the other possibility to the Great Wheel act since he also knows quite a lot about ghouls but to see them would mean Touka most likely willingly went to the CCG. It’s possible if we say that she actually intends on going to rescue Yoriko (despite not wanting Kaneki to be) or in case she’s captured and Kanou is interested by her pregnancy, but I think we all don’t want Kanou to get anywhere near Kaneki’s baby.
Itori => as this post explains, she seems very knowledgeable about hybrid pregnancies for a still unknown reason and I’m not sure the Clowns will manage to stay completely neutral for the rest of the story, so who knows if she might not know more on the subject than what she once told Kaneki.
That’s about all the possibilities that I see for now.
As for Kaneki’s aging issue, well, as you read here, I think that it’s possible that Eto’s gift…
…might be one of the keys to Kaneki’s possible survival through the aging problem, so I’m not so sure the Great Wheel act will have any means to help more if Eto really is one of the keys.
The Great Wheel act is important because it’s the first (and for now only) human-based organization that’s supporting the ghoul kind and so they have a role to play if coexistence is really to happen. However, as we saw with Akira, they don’t have as many means as the CCG labs or Kanou hold and so I am doubting that they might really be able to help Kaneki and/or Touka.
Again please don’t forget that Touka’s pregnancy is peculiar because it’s the first hybrid pregnancy with a ghoul mama that we came across in the story. As a result, I wouldn’t be surprised if more significant biological reveals were linked to finding a way to make it viable.
That’s why I would love for Itori’s return a few chapters ago not to be random but rather synced with the reveal of Touka’s pregnancy (besides my obvious bias to see more of her since I like her character a lot).
I hope it answers your question, have a nice day Anon!
The concept of Touka being pregnant at some point in the story is based on different interpretations of symbolism in the first place. The idea was reinforced by the events of ch125 and both are now mainly the reason people are theorizing that the panel with Nishiki (and also the one with Tsukiyma) could be a hint that she’s pregnant. Here are a few links towards these theories more or less based symbolism in case you don’t know what I’m talking about:
the cover of ch122 and the Kirishimas’ birthday poem: [1] [2]
Furuta having 101 kids (the Oggai) “with Rize” as he said he would in ch101, when he’s a OEG (like Kaneki) and Kaneki’s shadow and when Rize is a ghoul (like Touka is) EDIT: here’s a link
So you didn’t miss anything in this chapter as far as I noticed, the pregnancy theories have been going strong ever since ch122. xD I hope my answer helps a little though. Have a nice day! 🙂
Anonymous said: Hi, could you please clear something up? When Itori refers to Roma as her stupid little sister, based on the context would you say they’re actual siblings?
Anonymous said:
Hello! So apparently Itori and Roma are sisters according to the translations? Did we have any hint of that before?
Yes, the disqus guy is right. Itori said “My stupid protegee sniffed them out”. Roma is not Itori sister, the word just means “someone you see as a younger sister while not related by blood”.
I mean, I do remember a few crack theories about them maybe being sisters when the TG trump cards deck came out because they roughly had the same hair color, but that was the only hint and I’m not even sure people were serious. xD
At the same time, it’s not like we know a lot about the Clowns in general, Donato aside. We don’t even know if they might not have a link with V or the Garden, so starting from there, while it did come out as a surprise, it’s not like it doesn’t make sense, since everything is a mystery with the Clowns. I even checked the raw text on Netabare and Itori does call Roma “imoto” in Japanese, so it’s literally correct as far as I can understand.
Now that we know though, I’m even more curious about that fact because being Itori’s sister kind of explains why Roma’s a part of the Clowns’ gang in the first place, when she’s younger than the rest of them.
Also the fact that two Clowns are related kind of makes me want to scream and ask “who are the parents”, especially since I still don’t exclude the possibility of a few (all?) Clowns having a link with V/the Sunlit Garden. …So yes, what I am saying basically is that if somehow Itori and Roma were to be Washuu Tsuneyoshi’s daughters, I just wouldn’t be surprised. xD
Actually we always were made to believe that Rize was a special case because she managed to escape, but in truth that is rather because of her kakuhou’s special abilities. Furuta even said that he’s the one who helped Rize escape and he was just a kid…
…so maybe she’s not the only kid who escaped from the Sunlit Garden.
If not from the Sunlit Garden though, I wouldn’t be surprised if Roma and Itori had a link to the old ghoulification experiments that Kanou once mentioned (:Re ch93) and who knows, maybe by sister, Itori could mean “clones” -> please check this great post by @one-eyed-king-kaneki46. More on clones later probably.
Finally, the fact that Itori and Roma are “sisters” is also interesting because…
Roma is ranked SS and she is strong in her own way, so this really makes me wonder…
…what her “big sister” can do. 🙂
So yep, definitely an unexpected info but I like it all the same. 😀
Have a nice weekend Anon!
Hey Anon, thanks for reading! And it’s true that it seems they don’t have the same kakuhou type because of the TG trump cards, but still, would you really say that this means that they possibly aren’t sisters? For all you know they could be half sisters, or they each got a kakuhou from one parent.
I know that Ayato and Touka have the same kakuhou type (their mom’s) but look at Hina who has both her parents’, so whose to say that another pair of siblings might not have different kakuhou?
Honestly, I can’t be sure xD but the fact remains that Itori legit called Roma “imoto” in the chapter, which is little sister. As many people said, it could be metaphorical or they could be half sisters, and I even think it’s possible that they’re clones of each other (thanks to the detail that @one-eyed-king-kaneki46 pointed out) so… the different kakuhou types might not be a real problem to their aformentioned blood relation. 🙂
We will see though, because I’m pretty sure that if Ishida took the time to introduce this detail, it will supposedly mean something later!
Thanks for passing by and have a nice weekend 🙂
Hey Anon! And yes, maybe they’re half sisters, at this point anything is possible. 🙂 Here are all the guesses so far:
blood-related sisters
blood-related half sisters
metaphorical sisters
clones (again, we might have several pairs of clones in the story, but I intend on doing a quick rereading of the series before I expand on this)
Anyway, Itori canonically has red/pink hair, Anon 🙂
So her hair color wasn’t wrong in the anime.
Finally, about her attitude towards Roma, I don’t think she was particularly mean, rather it’s Roma who’s been described as an idiot by more than one Clown. In fact, Roma is younger, more immature and she tends to do as she wants, which can be a problem whenever they need to act as an organization following a precise plan (on top of the Clowns not really looking out for each other in the first place).
Like, Uta literally had to watch out for her in the auction arc
Nico called her out on her attitude and idiocy…
…so Itori was probably just angry that she was captured by Goat when the initial plan was simply for her to bring Kanou back from Rushima.
Actually, that’s how the Clowns are: they never went to rescue Roma from Cochlea and Nico didn’t save her either from Goat, because they don’t look out for each other most of the time, but the fact that Roma’s younger and brash doesn’t speak in her favor because so far she always was the one who was caught by the enemy.
Thanks for passing by, I hope I answered your questions 🙂
Hello! I went to check after your message and you’re right, apparently it seems that they are metaphorical sisters, so thanks for pointing this out :))
For anyone interested, check Itori’s page on the wikia and scroll down to the comments section!
(which is why I’m hoping he and Akira and Amon will talk before it’s too late). Kurona is probably in a similar state, when you see how crazy she was until the Rushima arc
midnight-in-town 