Adding onto @sentrakk‘s theory here, and adding on to Ishida’s very extra symbolism with the chiastic structure and chapter numbers, we are 33 chapters from 204…
Guess what chapter 33 in the original TG is? The first time we see this gang altogether for the first time.
Interesting how the strings we can see are kinda similar in these two panels, especially when Donato was referred to as “Crown” before and since there is a lot of symbolism associated to him being a OEG (+ same topic, “love”, in both panels).
I know that there is a lot of discussion about Donato being the Nagaraj right now, but ch151 at least seems to contradict that idea (just my opinion, obviously we could be trolled by Sensei and he could make that panel about Donato instead of possibly Uta), even if this doesn’t really matter since it was said that there were 2OEGs before Eto in the timeline anyway.
EDIT: tho’ I guess that seeing Sasaki’s puffy hairstyle compared to Kaneki’s, the One Eyed Washuu could be considered to be a younger Donato with black straight hair, his current beard hiding the mole on his chin (in that case he would be half Russian/half Japanese then?).
I guess we’ll see. :3
the weird thing is that both Uta and Donato are associated with the Hindu myth about Vasuki/the Nagaraj/etc so I’m just not sure about who’s who, with all the possibilities. I mean, there is this exchange…
*sigh*
so I’m not buying the red herrings about either of them (tho’ that wouldn’t have to stop Sensei obviously): Sensei hinted a lot about both of them, Itori and Nico are also still mysterious and suspicious in their own ways so there IS something up about all of the Clowns.
SIGHHHHHHHHHHHHH
i’m just tired SENSEI STOP WITH ALL THE HINTS/RED HERRINGS OR WHATEVER, i’m about to go insane…
Touka made the decision believing it would be the only option for the fetus to be able to obtain the necessary nutrients. This decision was based on her conversation with Kaneki, in which he revealed that Ukina ate human flesh so that she would be able to survive.
Touka knowing this worked took the same decision changing it for human food instead.
This may have no logic (for now) or not work, but she is still risking herself because is the only thing she can do.
Have a nice day and thanks for the ask!
i hope you don’t mind me jumping in because i have A LOT of salt over how people just keep asking this question over and over again to many different blogs i follow
the point of the scene isn’t the logic behind touka’s action at all. it might or might not have any. the point of this scene basically just touka trying her best to give her child a chance to survive. touka has lost so much she doesn’t want another one of her family to die. she thinks of herself as a monster so much she’s terrified she might kill her own child. so she wants to do whatever she can to protect her baby. she doesn’t know what she can do, the only other person she knows who’s ever been in that situation was yoshimura and ukina. the fact that baby lived is the only hope touka has that her child would as well and so to keep her child safe, she tries the only method she has at hand at that very moment. it’s exactly as you say, it’s the only thing she can do.
tbh, it’s not that hard to notice this if the fandom realises that touka is a character and not some mere plot device. her very motivations and development is reason enough for ishida writing this scene out. even if it doesn’t help the baby at all, the point is not whether it does, it’s simply touka wanting to save her child. that’s it. it’s not that hard to grasp.
i’m so sorry for jumping in like that vero, but i’ve seen this question being asked to quite a bit of mutuals and blogs, as well as seeing it float around tumblr as posts. just wanted to add on to what you said. i completely agree with you of course!
Don’t worry! I really liked how you explained Touka’s motivations and feelings at the moment. Thank you very much for the addition!
I always think back to these panels, especially the saddened Itori dialogue to Kaneki from part 1. There has literally been no ghoul mother and human father success for hybrids at all from what we know sadly. The chances of a miracle are virtually slim to non existent as compared to the slightly better chances of a human mother and ghoul father (even referring to half humans who are deemed as failures due to their rapid aging and short life spans). Ukina and Kuzen produced a “miracle” that was as Eto, as the only known true natural half ghoul hybrid from the sheer will and determination of the human mother devouring the human flesh that the baby would need.
The case of Touka is even more extreme given the nature of her body automatically absorbing the foetus for nutrients under a normal regime. And like you all have mentioned, Touka gathered the only information made available to her by listening to Kaneki’s explanation on hybrids via old man Yoshimura and Ukina with Eto but in reverse. Add that with the already established notion of her being used to eating human food due to her father Arata’s human like upbringing and her friendship with her human best friend Yoriko.
Its been stated and shown time and time again how human food severely weakens and damages the body of a ghoul, and yet she is still willing to do ANYTHING to ensure that even the slightest of chances are made in order to give her child what it needs to survive. It may not even be the correct one, but this is all she can do, she can only hope that by weakening her body, by undergoing more pain as a ghoul via eating human food that her child can survive.
It’s one of the MANY true testaments of strength that Touka possesses as a character and aspiring mother. All the odds are stacked against her and their child; and yet despite it all, she tries and tries, even if its pointless by normal standards/possibilities and occurrences. For that is what hope is. No longer can she just live while losing things, for that is what she’s chosen, if it means painfully sacrificing her own well being.
The “evolution” of the title is probably a reference to Yomo’s line:
For the whole battle there has been a discrepancy in prospectives: Uta and Itori are trying to recreate the old days they spent with their friend, while Yomo refuses to go back to that dynamic. Uta wants to fight Yomo and tries to force him to take their confrontation seriously, while Itori is their witness and comments their dynamic with jokes and treating them like naughty children.The end of the chapter is Yomo basically telling them to stop with their pranks. As many people have noticed the last scene with Uta falling brings to mind the Tower which has come out multiple times in the narrative.
The Tower represents a sudden loss, the sudden and dramatic change of a situation and has meant on a meta level the abrupt end of many character arcs which couldn’t reach their natural conclusion. So what has been lost in this chapter? What has been destroyed?
The answer lies probably once again in Yomo’s choice to grow up. With this choice Yomo is telling Uta and Itori that they can’t stay trapped in their old days forever and that they all need to evolve. This is probably where the second part of the title comes up: The Star.
The Star is the card which comes after the Tower in the Fool journey and symbolizes a new inspiration people need to work on after their world has been put into disorder by the Tower. @hamliet and one of her anons had a conversation about it and how the chapter being the number 170 seems to support this idea.
The star is a new dream and has the power to inspire people, but at the same time it must be seen as nothing more and the following step consists in trying to adapt the ideal of the Star to the reality of the world. This is what I am expecting from Yomo, Uta and Itori. After all Uta (and probably Itori as well) has seen his ideal, his attempt of connection negated and deemed as impractical. At the same time Yomo is fighting for something new which is probably faceless and difficult to grasp like the friend he is fighting. It’s not by chance we are having these two battles happening at the same time. They are linked to the two complementery themes of understanding others and understanding one-self:
1) Yomo’s challenge consists in being able to see the face of the faceless, so in understanding what seems ununderstandable.
2) Amon’s challenge consists in realizing he is a sinner like the person he hates.
Obviously these two challenges are nothing more than two faces of the same coin: if Yomo gets to finally understand Uta he will understand himself better and if Amon accepts himself he will also accept who Donato is.
All of this to say that I doubt Uta is gonna die. If anything this chapter made even clearer that Yomo and Uta have a problem of communication. After all Yomo is almost devoured by a giant mouth and Uta has become the giant mouth. And who else almost always gets devoured because he can’t communicate?
Yomo, like Urie, has always been terrible at expressing his feelings and is famous for being a quiet person. Uta on the other hand has always been the most talkative of the two. He was the one who started talking to Renji in the 4th ward, he was the one who told Kaneki Yomo’s backstory, he is shown to like chatting with his clients. Despite this, he can’t express himself better than Yomo and this is because he often makes things about others. He talks with others and figures them out and even makes new faces for them. However, he doesn’t explain himself and so reamains faceless because nobody bothers to give him a face he may like.
This is also interesting given @sentrakk‘s theory that we might get more Urie and Mutsuki development quite soon… we shall see.
Long story short, it turns out that this far in :Re, there are still fans who get confused about the timeline that we were given (I’m aware that overlapping different hints is not always easy though, so no pressure).So, due to a certain post I saw yesterday and that I can’t get out of my head, I decided to make a recap post on the subject to hopefully clear up some confusion.
(Please note that all of this is based on the assumption that the timeline I mentioned is accurate/can be trusted.)
Firstly, there is supposedly no need to wonder about the identity of the Nagaraj who’s a kakuja ghoul who went on a rampage 100 years ago or so, because…
we already know he’s the One Eyed Washuu Matsuri mentioned in ch151 and we even saw what he looked like on the same occasion.
Of course, one could argue that Matsuri is lying/doesn’t know the real truth but… (personal opinion here) it’s not really the kind of plot twists Sensei seems to work with in general?
So, without mentioning theories about a link between Uta & the One Eyed Washuu (if just because of the resemblance in ch151), while I can understand the need to imagine more complicated plot twists, I find it hard to consider that, say Itori, could be the Nagaraj of 100 years ago when we already saw who he supposedly was in ch151.
However, again considering the timeline we were given throughout :Re, since there is another OEG/OEK that started a second rebellion after the Nagaraj’s but before Eto’s, I think it’s legit to wonder about their identity because it’s bound to be addressed eventually.
I personally have 3 suspects at the moment:
Noro
Itori
and Donato
(since this post is a little late, considering the next chapter is soon, more below)
Alright, an explanation for why Donato might be the one eyed king, or even a one eyed king. The biggest symbolic connection is through Amon. There are several pieces foreshadowing that Amon is set up to become a future king.
We’ve even witnessed this symbolism refreshed for us recently in Amon’s birthday art. [x] @lunaamatista
i love how Itori is watching Uta and Yomo fight like [x]
hey guys, on the subject of “Yomo won against Uta???”, I know the chapter isn’t out yet, but I just want to say that it makes sense considering the recurring themes of TG + the fact that Ishida ironically debunked the power ranking
shonen
trope a while ago.
Keep in mind, this is why Yomo fights…
vs this is the reason for the Clowns (and thus Uta)
so this is yet one more reminder that hope & love >> despair & loneliness in TG.
I strongly doubt that in terms of raw strength Yomo is stronger than Uta (not that I think there is that much of a gap between them, but all in all Uta is probably physically stronger). However Yomo’s reasons for fighting (and wanting to win against Uta) in this precise moment make him stronger than Uta who feels mostly loneliness if he’s not playing around.
It’s Mutsuki winning over Seidou during the Rushima arc all over again, it’s not about raw strength but about what makes you strong enough to win.
I mean it’s funny you bring that up, because Yomo’s last fight against Mutsuki lampshaded that exact same thing.
Also, in Takizawa’s own fight against Mutsuki I wouldn’t call what Mutsuki fought against Seidou with was emotion, or even a superior reason for winning. Mutsuki won that one with the power of mental breakdown.
You could say that the smile Mutsuki cracks when he says he’s going to buy time at the mention of Urie coming soon is Mutsuki deciding to fight for the rest of the Q’s, and to reunite with them again but he spends the rest of the fight clearly lashing out and using Seidou as a transferable target to receive that punishment. Seidou is both a ghoul and a man, both of which have hurt Mutsuki in the past, though Seidou specifically never hurt Mutsuki at all. Yet, we can see in the specific way he takes Seidou down he’s not really fighting for a superior purpose just venting his frustration.
If anything it’s karma for what Seidou did to the investigators during the Auction raid. None of them were specifically responsible for the torture that happened to him, even though the entirety of the CCG turned its back on him, but he used the to vent his frustration violently anyway. Now when Seidou’s not lashing out, but merely fighting for survival he’s being used the same way by Mutsuki.
Considering the specific way Mutsuki takes him down and what he does to Akira afterwards though, it’d be straight up reading the fight wrong to say Mutsuki has a superior reason for fighting then just “He’s a ghoul, it’s okay to kill ghouls, I want to vent my frustrations by being violent and killing things, but only things that are okay to kill because I’ve been told it’s okay to kill ghouls.”
So my underlying point with this explanation is that emotion alone really isn’t enough to gain a clean victory. Like, Yomo did indeed win that fight but it’s not the result he wanted, it’s a pyrrhic victory because he didn’t get through to his friend. Uta still feels lonely after going through all that trouble.
Honestly I doubt the fight is going to end there, because we’ve seen Uta throw pretty much every single fight he’s been in during Tokyo Ghoul.
Is this what Yomo really wants though? To grow up and rid himself of his childhood friends in Uta and Itori? I’ve always said though that the conflict between Uta and Yomo is a two way one, because Uta makes himself impossible to be understood, but at the same time Yomo doesn’t really push him at all or even try to understand him until his back is against a wall.
So like, all the things that Itori said Yomo fights for. Why does Yomo fight for them? Does he really believe that the future Ken will bring will be better for him? Does he feel content knowing he won’t lose anymore things if he puts his faith in Ken? Does he know that Ken doens’t really care about human and ghoul cohabitation but decides to fight for him anyway because he believes Ken’s good nature will triumph eventually? Does he trust that Ken is a strong person because he’s been observing him all this time and wants to support him when he’s finally standing on his own? Does he think this is the only choice after witnessing ghouls being driven to near extinction? Does he see the family that Touka will create as a second chance at his sister’s children reaching a happy ending and therefore his hope being realized?
We really don’t know why, because Yomo doesn’t think about why. He fights to protect without really thinking of the circumstances he’s fighting in and thus he gets dragged from fight to fight to fight.
This is pretty much directly what Uta accuses Yomo of doing in their brief confrontation, Uta says Yomo is merely fighting against the concept of loss.
That because of that, the cycle will repeat again and again. He’ll either lose himself, or he’ll lose someone important to him and learn a lesson from it, but the cycle will never end because Yomo only ever sees his life in terms of loss.
Remember his failure to assert himself is a character flaw of Yomo’s, he still hasn’t onscreen told Touka or Ayato that he’s their uncle because he’s terrified of trying to influence others due to his own lack of confidence.
So yes, Yomo does have a better reason for fighting Itori and Uta, but exactly why is it better? Even if you’re saying that Yomo’s fighting for his friends, he’s specifically fighting against two friends to fight for other friends newer friends he’s made. Except those two were the ones who saved his life. When Goat pretty much gave him up for dead and didn’t bother looking for him.
That’s not an aimed dig at goat per se, just asking questions that need to be asked. Of course they have a reason for fighting that’s better than just empty nihilism, but none of the characters really can understand their reason yet for fighting because they don’t really think about it.
Yomo even shouts it like seven times this whole fight “I don’t understand, I don’t understand, I don’t understand.”
So yeah, Yomo said a cool one liner and scored a significant hit against Uta, but what good did it do him? It’s a victory earned without understanding. If he’s not careful than Uta will just become another one of Yomo’s losses and the cycle surrounding him will remain unbroken. And that’s not what Yomo wants, he wants the fighting to stop not to win the fight.
So in other words, a victory achieved through violence without understanding isn’t going to really help either Yomo or Uta develop at all.
Long story short, it turns out that this far in :Re, there are still fans who get confused about the timeline that we were given (I’m aware that overlapping different hints is not always easy though, so no pressure).So, due to a certain post I saw yesterday and that I can’t get out of my head, I decided to make a recap post on the subject to hopefully clear up some confusion.
(Please note that all of this is based on the assumption that the timeline I mentioned is accurate/can be trusted.)
Firstly, there is supposedly no need to wonder about the identity of the Nagaraj who’s a kakuja ghoul who went on a rampage 100 years ago or so, because…
we already know he’s the One Eyed Washuu Matsuri mentioned in ch151 and we even saw what he looked like on the same occasion.
Of course, one could argue that Matsuri is lying/doesn’t know the real truth but… (personal opinion here) it’s not really the kind of plot twists Sensei seems to work with in general?
So, without mentioning theories about a link between Uta & the One Eyed Washuu (if just because of the resemblance in ch151), while I can understand the need to imagine more complicated plot twists, I find it hard to consider that, say Itori, could be the Nagaraj of 100 years ago when we already saw who he supposedly was in ch151.
However, again considering the timeline we were given throughout :Re, since there is another OEG/OEK that started a second rebellion after the Nagaraj’s but before Eto’s, I think it’s legit to wonder about their identity because it’s bound to be addressed eventually.
I personally have 3 suspects at the moment:
Noro
Itori
and Donato
(since this post is a little late, considering the next chapter is soon, more below)
For Noro, I already explained why I thought it was a possibility along with the timeline here.
For Itori, I advanced “arguments” in different posts [x][x][x][x] but to make a really general and superficial summary (something I actually put together for @hamliet who I think love the idea of Itori being a OEG):
This is obviously not something to take super seriously (actually I made this set as some kind of joke compared to the one I had made for Uta a long time ago), but I think that with the posts I linked to above, there is at least a small basis to consider the idea.
In general the second OEG of the timeline was less addressed than the Nagaraj, because they were defeated by the newly created V and didn’t have the opportunity to go on a rampage like the One Eyed Washuu or even Kaneki himself.
So far, Kaneki mentioned them in ch121, Nishiki in ch128 and maybe Roma briefly in ch135 (when she said that she went to Cochlea after “the grand party” and Roma being 51 years old, she would have only bee, born in time for the second rebellion), but as far as I could notice that’s it, which is not a lot compared to the One Eyed Washuu/Nagaraj.
Of course, that’s not the only theory about Itori’s identity and past, another popular one being that she’s a breeder (like Rize was supposed to be), possibly already alive by the time the Nagaraj went on a rampage (@cirrocumulus-cloud made a good recap post on the subject after the latest chapter and you can read it here).
[Additional note: the ending cards of Root A episode 8, which was about Yoshimura’s backstory, were
So as always make whatever you want from that, but Eto and Kaneki are OEGs, there are theories that Uta could have a link to the One Eyed Washuu, so there might be a reason Sensei decided to make a card for Itori at the same time too]
Finally, for Donato, it gets slightly more complicated and symbolic…
…knowing that this is the biggest hint, as far as I’m concerned.
We already know thanks to Itori that the Clowns are ghouls tired of despairing, which means that it would seem legit that Donato lost more than Amon and his orphanage throughout his life, before he ended up in Cochlea for 18 years or so.
However, despite that, he’s also the suspect I am the least sure about because:
I don’t think he’s a Washuu (not that all OEGs have to be Washuus, look at Kaneki and Eto), but he’s also not Japanese, so it’s hard to see why a Russian OEG would come to Japan to launch a rebellion if he’s neither.
Not to ramble, but I also don’t think he’s such a strong ghoul. I mean, he’s definitely SS rated but I think his “cloning abilities” are possibly triggered by ghouls who were hinted they could be Washuus (and thus “their blood holds profound power”, by Kanou, ch149), namely Uta for the Clowns’ raid arc and Nico healing him in the last chapter.
best theoretical “proof” I have is that he apparently couldn’t make a clone of himself in order to escape Urie’s father and run away with Amon, which is how he ended up in Cochlea.
Nonetheless, there is also some symbolism that might vouch he’s still a likely candidate for the second OEG of the timeline, but since this isn’t really something I’m good at, I’ll let @linkspooky explain! :3
Assuming Editor-san’s line is actually relevant this time, I’m just super excited about the prospect of knowing more for different reasons.
First of all, the one who founded the Clowns was Roma, but she also said that…
…the others might not know it was her. Whether she meant Itori, Uta, Nico, Donato and Furuta or small fries who joined the gang, that’s not certain. As a side note, the “grand party” she’s talking about might be referring to the conflict between the second OEG of the timeline and V, since we know Roma ended up being defeated by Tsuneyoshi in his youth.
Anyway, if the others really don’t know Roma was the founder though, then it may mean that…
the reason they all ended up joining is not necessarily closely related to Roma’s own reasons for founding the gang (which mainly was fearing getting bored), which is logical if Roma actually was the youngest out of them all (not counting Furuta) and even if Itori’s description of the Clowns does encompass Roma too.
Secondly, in the new chapter, Donato said this…
… just before Itori rambled about their group while watching Yomo and Uta fight, and precisely as Kaneki was meeting with Furuta.
In other words, it’s a perfect lineup to understand what’s exactly linking all of the remaining Clowns and why they finally decided to step forward onto the stage after (what was implied to be) so many years of staying in the background and pretending to be the audience.
In fact, we even got a little hint a while ago that the Clowns had some sort of leading figure who had a plan about Kaneki, thanks to Uta:
And while I’m aware that Uta is a real troll and taking him seriously shouldn’t happen, at the same time, it still makes sense for Uta to have been talking about Furuta in ch31.5.
After all, the Clowns are currently playing for time for Furuta, they helped him overthrow the main Washuu family, they followed his directions during the Clowns’ raid arc, etc, and besides, Roma also said this in ch135:
…which is a direct throwback to the current arc, since Furuta purposely recreated a situation (using Kaneki amongst others) that paralleled what had happened with the Nagaraj 100 years ago because he seemed to have been seeking the same results.
In other words, either the “raison d’être” of the Clowns is directly linked to Furuta’s goal of “super peace” or, more simply, Furuta offered them a way to “keep cracking jokes on stage so that they wouldn’t go crazy”, which is why they’re helping him.
Sorry to bring up the subject once again, but I was thinking about OEGs…
…and since there is a good chance that there might be one of the two OEGs of the timeline amongst the Clowns (if not the two of them), I wonder if Furuta also didn’t approach the Clowns precisely because he knew that.
I mean, when you consider Itori’s description of the Clowns to be “to keep cracking jokes on stage so that they don’t go crazy” with what Uta said about “never having heard any happy stories about OEGs” (hence probably why he said he’d rather not have TG ending as a tragedy), maybe this is related.
I’m not saying that all the Clowns are OEGs, at most only two of them can be, but if the Clowns all previously had a purpose in life linked to one of the two OEGs before Eto, then that could explain why Itori said that they’re “ghouls tired of despairing”. After all…
so far all the OEGs lost against the world.
Donato even said to Urie that “the Clowns love famous people [like Kaneki]”, when Itori also referred to Kaneki as famous in ch34, so it could be yet another hint that all the Clowns were involved in past rebellions (”famous people” = the OEGs leading rebellions, like Kaneki)…
…but these brought no change as we already know, which makes Kaneki the last hope of the century (and an on-going debate between the Clowns, since some are rooting for him and others prefer when he’s despairing).
TL;DR Again I really don’t think the Clowns care to see what results Furuta’s “super peace” will bring (rather that’s V, since they’re always very serious about “peace”).
However, if they’re all old ghouls who got involved in at least one of the two previous ghoul rebellions, only to end up tired of despairing because no OEG ever succeeded so far in changing the world, then maybe this could explain why they took Furuta’s opportunity to crack jokes on stage for yet another rebellion:
because it is their way “to avoid going crazy”
but also maybe because of what Itori said in ch148 about “watching till the end”/”making sure” for “your king’s sake”.
midnight-in-town 