Wait, hear me out 🙂 I know it sounds crazy when we all basically admitted he was with ch84 and 98…
…and he is extremely strong and clever, but technically no one ever said “Donato is the boss” and neither did he, so I’m just wondering about the possibilities that he is admitting to being “the boss” when he might in fact not be at all (he was always called “crown” not the boss and Uta referred to a “boss” in ch31.5).
As for why I’m wondering about this, well, we now know that the one who caught Donato was Urie’s dad…
And seeing as Urie’s dad was killed by Eto…
that means Donato’s capture was at least 13 years ago if not even before. However (and this is why my crack theory starts) the Clowns’ annihilation was…
7 years ago at the end of TG
10 years ago at the beginning of :Re
so basically 11 years to 12 years ago as of the current arc
And Donato went to prison for basically 14 years, which means that if he’s the Clowns’ boss, he was captured way before the annihilation happened + as he said to Urie…
He was running the orphanage at this time and it was “a life of peace/tranquility” which means that…
…I don’t see how a life of peace or tranquility running that orphanage (aka enjoying playing family with Amon) is supposed to also fit with the Clowns’ gang becoming more and more powerful (probably by fighting and gaining more members). So this is just bugging me because, even if the Clowns’ gang doesn’t have such a real hierarchy and its members work solo most of the time, then why would “the boss” be a guy who was apparently maybe not so involved with the gang (since he was busy with running peacefully that orphanage) as they were becoming more powerful?
For all I know it’s a plot hole because Ishida-sensei got messed up in his timeline or maybe Donato was being the boss as a part time job, but… meh, I feel something is off, even more because Donato was basically freed 1 month ago and yet the plan with Furuta launched off before he was even freed.
I know, I know, Donato was probably somehow getting intel even when in Cochlea (one way or another, or maybe even thanks to Furuta was had met with the Clowns) and besides, Nico, Uta and Itori were free doing their own things all these years, so Furuta’s plan could have been discussed while Donato remained in Cochlea but still, the timeline is bugging me…
The Clowns are an odd group, each member more used to doing things their own way instead of working together…
…So if we say the boss is Donato, that means that the Clowns managed to stay one of the most powerful organizations of the story with their boss-like figure only half into it the whole time + in prison for the last 14 years, but still somehow getting intel and planning things out carefully for when it would be time to counterattack.
Which means again that either it is a timeline mistake from Ishida’s part, or the CCG were beyond stupid when it comes to underestimating Donato and the Clowns.
The whole Clowns’ annihilation is bullshit in the first place though, and I’m wondering if Ishida intends on explaining what exactly went wrong because the CCG saw this as a great victory (thanks to Houji, Arima, Hirako and a few others) and yet they’re still kicking it and powerful so I hope someone (Juuzou?) will bring up the fact that something apparently went wrong 12 years ago.
it has to be someone who was around at the time of the Clowns’ annihilation,
it has to be someone who’s still alive
it has to be one of the reasons the Clowns managed to stay a strong group even when at a disadvantage after the annihilation
it could be someone who, like Furuta (or Yoshitoki before him) currently directing his people from a control room, is generally not seen fighting alongside the others.
And… well, we do have that one Clown who went missing ever since the beginning of :Re and whose existence is not even suspected by the CCG (see the panel of ch26 above). Besides, I made a list long ago of arguments as to why she could be seen as the boss, maybe.
Please keep in mind that it’s obviously a crack theory because Donato still is likely to be the boss but I am currently struggling with a small timeline issue that might or not get explained next chapter (since it seems Donato might start reminiscing), so I guess we’ll see next week whether this crack theory actually has some more basis or not.
After all, for all I know maybe Donato was initially the boss, then he got busy with the orphanage so he left the other Clowns on their own, but now that he’s free again and still angry at his peaceful life being taken away from him, he’s back into the gang and assuming the boss role again. I really can’t be sure ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Thanks for reading and feel free to leave your thoughts 🙂
Hey Anon 🙂 Do you mean “what if Amon is actually made out to be the Clowns’ boss sometimes soon”?
Well… at this point one might as well say that Furuta is the Clowns’ boss then, because there is no way Amon would agree to how the Clowns do things (so far at least) and I’m not even sure he’s met any of them (besides Donato of course) + there is all that I said about the boss being someone who would have had to be around when the Clowns’ annihilation happens in my opinion so… I’m just not sure, no. xD
Amon always was about protecting the people he cherished so he followed Aogiri a large number of times because they were an enemy, he went to Rushima to save Seidou and Kurona and it’s true he and Kaneki have a real link, but at this point Hide as the Clowns’ boss would be more logical than Amon for me.
I just don’t think Amon would even remotely agree to be associated with the Clowns’ gang + let’s not forget that right now he’s weaker than Seidou, which means he’s weaker than Furuta and very probably Uta and Donato as well, so he’d just be a symbol and I don’t think the Clowns need a symbol since they’ve been alive and kicking without one for a long time.
So I’m sorry Anon, but I just don’t see Amon becoming such a high figure of the Clowns’ gang for now.
Thanks for your thoughts and have a nice weekend!
True about Itori’s mask
and her absence as well 🙂
Honestly, I’ve always been a bit meh about referring to Donato as the boss since it never really was confirmed and I just don’t want to rule out every possibility at this point, just in case. I mean, obviously ch98 could be taken as a confirmation (since it seems Furuta believes Donato is the boss) butit’s Ishida we’re talking about and we’ve been had before, if just when everyone thought the OEK was Eto and she wasn’t. xD
Thanks for reading and for your thoughts Anon! Have a nice weekend 🙂
Hey Anon, thanks for reading!
Yeah same, I don’t mind having Donato as the boss since he makes for a good leading figure, on top of being very intelligent and strong, but as I said, it’s really because the timeline seems off and because… I’m being a bit paranoid, since everyone really thought Eto was the OEK when she in fact never was called that, so we could be facing a similar scenario there. 🙂
As for this panel…
It’s from Kuramoto’s point of view, so I really think it means that the CCG encountered the different Clowns several times but never Itori, probably because she’s waiting in her bar and collecting the info.
So yeah, she or Donato, it’s between them for me (I also think Hide as the boss would be a bit too cliché, so I’d prefer him being a regular member if he really has to be involved with the Clowns’ gang).
About Itori though, I still think there is a possibility that she could be Washuu Iyo which is also maybe why she hasn’t returned in :Re, but that doesn’t mean she can’t also be the boss.
We will see with the next chapter, since I think we might have a flashback of when the orphanage was taken away from Donato, maybe this will give us more clues. 🙂
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and for reading! Have a nice weekend Anon 🙂
Ah no, sorry Anon, that’s not what I said, I don’t think Hide is the Clowns’ leader, please reread the post above.
And you should be careful about symbolism: Amon has his own role to play towards Kaneki, but as much as I find Hide sketchy, I don’t think he’s the one who’s using everyone because there isn’t just one chess master.
Furthermore, the Hide/Kaneki relationship is completely different from the Kaneki/Amon one, so while both Hide and Amon are important to Kaneki’s character and development, I don’t think they’re that intertwined.
+ I already told you that I don’t think Amon will ever join the Clowns’ gang and I don’t think Hide would be in position to force him to do anything 😉
I hope it makes things more understandable!
Lol Anon, you’re right 🙂 but the Clowns aren’t exactly the same thing as a title like the OEK, since it’s made of different characters who’ve known each other for a while and who are a bit peculiar when it comes to doing what they have to do, and besides all my answers only hold until we get more content.
So basically, me saying “no” is as of right now because I currently don’t have a single clue telling me that Amon will join the Clowns’ gang, especially not when what we’ve seen of the Clowns’ gang right now is 100% the antithesis of Amon’s character.
Hide is different and I think Hide could be a Clown but certainly not the Clowns’ boss (as I have explained that the Clowns’ boss is someone who should have been already there at the time of the annihilation), but again that’s only as of right now, my thoughts can change with more content.
Finally, it’s not because I say no that you can’t still think that this idea makes sense for you, I’m just giving you my current opinion. 😉
I disagree with you about the Clowns’ boss as I think the most logical choice right now would be either Donato or Itori (and we do have hints that either of them could make a good boss), and though the boss could have changed over the years after the annihilation, I just don’t think it’s the case, not when they were several to survive + the organization doesn’t have such a real hierarchy in the first place (and in any case Hide would still be a more logical choice over Amon since Amon is just not a trickster at heart).
As for the goal, considering what we’ve seen so far, I think it’s easy to see that they also want to change the world because it’s unfair (Donato is literally complaining about his peace being taken away from him in the last chapter) except that they’re doing it their own way because they also all have personal goals to take care of.
Anyway, we will see if we get more clues next chapter. Thanks for the talk! 🙂
Wait, hear me out 🙂 I know it sounds crazy when we all basically admitted he was with ch84 and 98…
…and he is extremely strong and clever, but technically no one ever said “Donato is the boss” and neither did he, so I’m just wondering about the possibilities that he is admitting to being “the boss” when he might in fact not be at all (he was always called “crown” not the boss and Uta referred to a “boss” in ch31.5).
As for why I’m wondering about this, well, we now know that the one who caught Donato was Urie’s dad…
And seeing as Urie’s dad was killed by Eto…
that means Donato’s capture was at least 13 years ago if not even before. However (and this is why my crack theory starts) the Clowns’ annihilation was…
7 years ago at the end of TG
10 years ago at the beginning of :Re
so basically 11 years to 12 years ago as of the current arc
And Donato went to prison for basically 14 years, which means that if he’s the Clowns’ boss, he was captured way before the annihilation happened + as he said to Urie…
He was running the orphanage at this time and it was “a life of peace/tranquility” which means that…
…I don’t see how a life of peace or tranquility running that orphanage (aka enjoying playing family with Amon) is supposed to also fit with the Clowns’ gang becoming more and more powerful (probably by fighting and gaining more members). So this is just bugging me because, even if the Clowns’ gang doesn’t have such a real hierarchy and its members work solo most of the time, then why would “the boss” be a guy who was apparently maybe not so involved with the gang (since he was busy with running peacefully that orphanage) as they were becoming more powerful?
For all I know it’s a plot hole because Ishida-sensei got messed up in his timeline or maybe Donato was being the boss as a part time job, but… meh, I feel something is off, even more because Donato was basically freed 1 month ago and yet the plan with Furuta launched off before he was even freed.
I know, I know, Donato was probably somehow getting intel even when in Cochlea (one way or another, or maybe even thanks to Furuta was had met with the Clowns) and besides, Nico, Uta and Itori were free doing their own things all these years, so Furuta’s plan could have been discussed while Donato remained in Cochlea but still, the timeline is bugging me…
The Clowns are an odd group, each member more used to doing things their own way instead of working together…
…So if we say the boss is Donato, that means that the Clowns managed to stay one of the most powerful organizations of the story with their boss-like figure only half into it the whole time + in prison for the last 14 years, but still somehow getting intel and planning things out carefully for when it would be time to counterattack.
Which means again that either it is a timeline mistake from Ishida’s part, or the CCG were beyond stupid when it comes to underestimating Donato and the Clowns.
The whole Clowns’ annihilation is bullshit in the first place though, and I’m wondering if Ishida intends on explaining what exactly went wrong because the CCG saw this as a great victory (thanks to Houji, Arima, Hirako and a few others) and yet they’re still kicking it and powerful so I hope someone (Juuzou?) will bring up the fact that something apparently went wrong 12 years ago.
it has to be someone who was around at the time of the Clowns’ annihilation,
it has to be someone who’s still alive
it has to be one of the reasons the Clowns managed to stay a strong group even when at a disadvantage after the annihilation
it could be someone who, like Furuta (or Yoshitoki before him) currently directing his people from a control room, is generally not seen fighting alongside the others.
And… well, we do have that one Clown who went missing ever since the beginning of :Re and whose existence is not even suspected by the CCG (see the panel of ch26 above). Besides, I made a list long ago of arguments as to why she could be seen as the boss, maybe.
Please keep in mind that it’s obviously a crack theory because Donato still is likely to be the boss but I am currently struggling with a small timeline issue that might or not get explained next chapter (since it seems Donato might start reminiscing), so I guess we’ll see next week whether this crack theory actually has some more basis or not.
After all, for all I know maybe Donato was initially the boss, then he got busy with the orphanage so he left the other Clowns on their own, but now that he’s free again and still angry at his peaceful life being taken away from him, he’s back into the gang and assuming the boss role again. I really can’t be sure ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Thanks for reading and feel free to leave your thoughts 🙂
Hey Anon and aww, thank you for the nice words! ^3^
Might I just say, you’re asking a really good question (one I initially read as “who then are the other chess pawns”) and I just hope I won’t ramble forever on the subject. :3
You said it, in appearance this is a fight between King Kaneki and King Furuta opposing their respective “pawns” on the chessboard that is the world, but in reality, even as kings, Furuta and Kaneki are pawns too, if just because they became Kings thanks to other people helping them attain such a position.
In Kaneki’s case obviously it was Arima’s wish to have Ken succeeding him as the one-eyed king…
But I’m still considering him a chess player, even if he’s dead, because the fact remains that he apparently lied to Kaneki about something important (namely that V/the Washuus wanted to become “more humans” when everything so far implied that they were trying to become the strongest ghouls, which was the reason for the Garden and ghouls like Rize), which is basically the same thing as manipulating Kaneki and using his own death to make sure Kaneki would listen to him.
Then obviously there is Eto, who’s also a major game player using Kaneki, except that she doesn’t hesitate to be more direct about it…
She set off the stage just before going to prison (with her last book and revealing she was a ghoul to her fans) and she also made sure Kaneki would owe her by saving his friends since, as she said herself, Kaneki would have no reason to be the OEK in the first place, and yet he still did exactly as she supposed he would.
Obviously I’m over simplifying here, but that’s just as a way to sum up, and since I don’t think Eto is dead, that makes for at least one chess player even if she’s not directly interfering with Kaneki acting as the OEK. Kaneki basically does as he wants now: he was initially manipulated to become the OEK (by both Arima killing himself and Eto), but that was still his choice in the end, especially since Eto admitted he technically didn’t have to go through the trouble, which means whatever he does now is entirely his own burden.
In Furuta’s case, it’s a bit…. different, because Furuta has two groups he can play with in order to reach his goal and, while I can’t speak about V because we don’t know enough about them, I’m… really sure there is nothing like loyalty between Furuta and the Clowns.
…If just because looking at Donato, Uta or even Nico (who did Kaneki a huge favor not so long ago), who are the ones who helped him become a king, they don’t really look like they are anyone’s pawns.
Furthermore, Furuta was so depicted to be Kaneki’s ultimate opponent because he’s also a “king” and he’s the one who dropped the steel bars in ch1 that I’m pretty sure Ishida intends on stabbing him in the back because we’re not at the end of the story yet.
So V aside, because it’s hard to speak of what they could be after, the Clowns using Furuta instead of the other way around sounds good to me. It could also be a status quo and Furuta is aware of it, but still, there is chance he believes he’s the biggest player too, so depending on which it is, he might or not end up being stabbed in the back.
I’d say all the older main Clowns (Donato, Uta, Nico and Itori) follow their own agenda on top of having a common goal (which might be to burn this world their own way because it’s so fucked up), but Donato and Uta have the potential to be actual chessmasters in my opinion, and not just over Furuta’s side if you see what I mean. 😉
Nico seems more of a passive watcher and since I am not entirely sure of what Itori is doing, it’s hard to speak for her (unless I go down crack theory lane). Roma is younger and currently not fighting so I’ll leave her out of this post for now.
Almost last but not least, still on Furuta’s side, there is also Kanou to consider because, for now he didn’t make any mistakes and always found one organization or another ready to take him in and protect him, as he loses more and more of his humanity by experimenting over basically everyone. So he could be a chess player too, maybe not over Kaneki’s side, but over Furuta’s, although I don’t think he’s trying to manipulate anyone, busy as he is with his experiments.
Finally… Hm, I’m one of those who think maybe Hide could be more of a chess player than of a pawn and I’ll just direct you to this post, in case you want to know why. 🙂
So that does appear to be a lot of characters, but I think for now (for this arc) we can safely consider that Donato and the Clowns are the same side which means the chess players of the current game would be the Clowns, Kanou, Eto and maybe Hide (and V too, but I don’t want to take a wild guess about them).
I hope it makes sense explained like that. Thanks for passing and for the nice words Anon :3 Have a nice day!
Hey Anon 🙂 Well, I really like the OST in general, I think it fits with TG’s atmosphere quite nicely so I don’t think I dislike any songs but since you asked for my faves, here you go, in no particular order (and I apologize if the names aren’t accurate):
Licht und Schatten
Schmetterling
Verzerrte Welt
Auferstehung
Tokyo ghoul Symphony
On my own
Glassy Sky
“On my own” and “Glassy Sky” are songs from Root A but I really like them too. 🙂
I hope it satisfies your curiosity Anon! Have a nice day ^^
Aaah, it’s the beginning of 2017 and I feel like we’re going miss them all for probably some more time…
Hide’s and Itori’s hide & seek games are way too strong tbh but at least we saw Eto and Amon last arc (while I’ve been waiting for Itori’s return for almost 108 chapters now xD).
Hide’s position in the plot is definitely secured so I’m just hoping that in Itori’s case it won’t be like Gori and she was actually just hanging out in her bar the whole time doing nothing fishy lmao.
Honestly it’s whenever Ishida-sensei is ready haha.
Ishida walks into a bar. He sits in a stool next to Hide, Eto and Amon and orders a drink.
“You know what they say about cliffhangers?” he asks, once the silence becomes awkward.
Hide shakes his head, expectant.
Eto looks bored out of her mind but leans forward nonetheless.
Amon positively bristles, looking as though he’s about to say something, but he’s holding back.
Ishida takes a look at them, smiles and leaves the bar.
Rize meanwhile, is lying underneath the bar, stone drunk from waiting so long. Itori on the other hand, is the one who served Ishida the drink, and has long given up hoping for a reappearance.
I’m super mad tho’, Donato got mentioned, Uta and Nico are going to fight
Furuta who is Souta was (LOL)
we know where Roma is even if she won’t fight so…
ITORI W H E R E?
Okay but for real, besides the fact it’s a Clown arc and Itori hasn’t been mentioned anywhere since the very beginning of :Re, except if you count that one time in Ken’s mind (:Re ch83), I’d like to also emphasize on the fact that we currently don’t know whether Washuu Iyo is alive or not after Furuta’s attack on Tsuneyoshi and the rest of the Washuu family…
And the MIA status sounds kind of super important because:
Iyo’s probably one of the “wombs/breeder”/pure-blooded ghouls from the Garden and Matsuri’s only chance at repopulating the Washuu family, so the MIA status sounds like a plot point (unless she’s just supposed to make us focus on Matsuri’s sexuality and crush on Urie)
I personally still can’t forget her random introduction + her crossed out face in the 2016 calendar. Also the fact Matsuri emphasized a lot on how boring she was in just three pages makes her fishy in my book (that’s a good introduction for a not-so-innocent/backstabbing character)
besides since Iyo probably is a womb/breeder and that we saw with Rize that those women aren’t so lucky in life (since they’re basically baby factories), I’d say Iyo playing at being boring in front of Matsuri for her own agenda is a possibility.
…especially since Furuta kinda told us he basically didn’t mind keeping that part of the old system, considering what he has in mind for Rize.
and of course there is this crack theory that Iyo = Itori
which, by the way, is becoming more and more likely since now both have a MIA status in common (making them good candidates for a big cliffhanger/surprise at some point)
especially when the possibility for Itori to be related to the Garden (as a breeder?) isn’t zero.
Finally, I still haven’t found a good explanation for Itori’s mask…
so this is just adding more ??? to all my questions, especially since Uta is very probably the one who crafted that mask and he might know all about her past (seeing as they’ve apparently been friends for over 12 years on top of him also being fishy and mysterious).
((So basically, I’m ლ(ಠ_ಠლ)about Iyo, Itori, Uta + what’s left that we don’t know about the Garden/the Washuu family/V and the weird ghoulification experiments (which led to Nanao’s death and Kanou betraying the CCG) and I just wanted to make yet another recap post of my feels for these TG mysteries in particular.))
Nah, as your own tags said, I doubt it too 🙂 She said too much of weird stuff back in TG for Ishida to discard her without an explanation (especially since there are still things we don’t know and that she could be related to). Besides, I doubt he’d forget about any of his characters in the first place.
It’s possible he’ll pull a Gori/Banjou move on us in Itori’s case (as in, she wasn’t reintroduced in :Re because there just never was a good time before) but I even doubt that since all the Clowns were reintroduced besides her and it’s an arc mainly about them so I hope that’s because there really is something important about her character (like Uta).
I’m super mad tho’, Donato got mentioned, Uta and Nico are going to fight
Furuta who is Souta was (LOL)
we know where Roma is even if she won’t fight so…
ITORI W H E R E?
Back on this scene again, I know many people already discussed this (@coromoor’s good post for example) and so did I with a few Anons [x] [x] but I wanted to add one thing I haven’t seen anywhere.
This scene is obviously foreshadowing a possible parallel with ch120 and I think everyone can agree that, even if Ishida-sensei hadn’t foreshadowed it, things between Kaneki and Touka are awkward enough that it was about time one of them asked for a serious talk.
Also, since this arc will be a raid on one of the CCG’s labs, this also parallels the raid on Kanou’s lab in TG (with probably Rize = Arata this, and that would be why Ishida included Ayato in Kaneki’s group).
Back to Touka, waiting at :Re…
Considering the focus she got in the new chapter because she felt as if left behind (when even Hina got to go), I’m pretty sure this choice by Ishida is as deliberate as putting Ayato on Kaneki’s team and I wondered about why, because I doubt we’ll just leave her alone at :Re for the rest of the arc.
In one of the discussions I linked above, I proposed that maybe, considering the scene between Takeomi and Yoriko and the small timeskip, Yoriko and Touka could see each other again, which would explain why Touka needed not to go with the others, but now I wonder if that couldn’t also be because of another parallel with TG, namely us getting…
a similar discussion to this scene (from ch117/118).
Careful, I don’t necessarily mean that it will be with Hide (although I don’t entirely exclude it either) but if we’re supposing that the talk Touka just asked for is supposed to be a step forward for both hers and Kaneki’s character development, then that means Kaneki’s issues need to be addressed by Touka (especially because of that punch in :Re ch99) and that would be the parallel with TG ch120.
However, Touka doesn’t know anything about the reasons behind Kaneki’s issues, nor can she guess them that easily when things have been rather awkward between them after 4 years apart, so she will never be able to confront him about his issues if she doesn’t know about them… unless someone passes by :Re to discuss Kaneki with her, that is.
Exactly like it happened in TG with Hide and Touka discussing Kaneki just before ch120 happened.
(A few more hypotheses under read more)
As I said though, I’m not sure this time around it’s going to be Hide since he didn’t reappear yet, although it would be nice if it could be him! Besides Hide and since we’re in the middle of an arc possibly about the Clowns, I was also considering someone like Uta, Nico or (as another character missing since TG like Hide) maybe Itori?
And we know that Uta and Nico are regulars at :Re…
so it wouldn’t be so surprising for Touka to see one of them showing up, especially since they showed to have a big interest in Kaneki before + for now I am not so sure anyway that as big members of the Clowns’ gang they will be attacking the CCG with the other Clowns (if you need me to explain why, feel free to ask but I didn’t want this initial post to be too long with details).
Anyway this post is just a little idea because we had multiple parallels between TG and :Re in the past and we’re bound to have a few more in the current arc (a raid on a lab, possibly Kaneki vs Juuzou, Arata as a parallel to Rize…), so why not also a parallel to Touka and Hide’s discussion about Kaneki in TG, especially when Touka wishes to talk more with him in the first place? 🙂
Feel free to leave your thoughts, thanks for reading!
midnight-in-town 