Hey Anon 🙂 Ah don’t worry, I don’t feel pressured at all :3 and it’s not a question I received recently so it’s totally okay (besides I never discard any asks even if that was something asked recently)!
There are several characters whose surname is unknown/doesn’t exist actually, for example:
Uta
Itori
Nico
Naki
Kaiko
Tatara
Noro
So personally…
I’m not sure it means something in particular
or it’s like with Yoshimura: we might find out about their first/last name later in the story?
or it’s like Rize. Being from the Garden, Rize was “just Rize” and Shachi is the one who ended up giving her a last name.
when it comes to kids from the garden, I’d say they probably get a last name if they start working outside of V (like Furuta Nimura/Souta, Arima Kishou…. they needed a last name otherwise people from the CCG would have been curious)
since Rize escaped and she was supposed to be a breeder that’s probably why she only had a first name.
if Itori and Uta aren’t related to V/the Garden then maybe they’re just orphans which could be why they don’t have a last name (like Naki probably and also like Nishiki originally, until his sis passed away)
That’s all I have so far 🙂 And if it’s meant to be important for the plot I’m sure Ishida will address the topic later.
I hope it answers your question, thanks and have a nice day yourself Anon 🙂
Hey Anon! Ah, I might have addressed the subject once but since it wasn’t recently, that doesn’t matter.
Anyway, yes I do, you mean this scene right?
With Hide as the witch’s servant?
To be honest I’m not good at talking about symbolism like that, so I’ll just say that Hide’s makeup in that scene reminded me of the clown Ganbo…
…which is why I also used to consider this a reason for Hide to possibly be linked to the Clowns
(in case it’s not just a trivial detail, I mean).
About the Witch herself though… honestly I don’t know, but considering that Kaneki was the main character of that play, I always considered Eto to be the Witch, especially with her importance in the story so far as well as the significant link between her and Kaneki.
Not to say that it doesn’t mean Itori can’t have a big role, it’s just that her link to Kaneki is, as of right now, nothing in comparison to the bond with Eto and Kaneki was the main character of the play, which means that logically the Witch has to be someone with a big link to him.
Anyway, I’m really no good at symbolism because, while the witch being Eto in regards to Kaneki being the hero of the play sounds likely to me, I don’t think Hide is Eto’s “servant” or anything like that (at least not with what we’ve seen of both of them until now). Besides, I like to think that either the Clowns set up the stage for that play (as in they’re waiting in the background), or that they are the play’s amused spectators so… I just don’t see the Witch being a Clown (which doesn’t mean that I don’t believe that Hide and Itori could be clowning together, but that’s the thing, the Clowns’ gang hierarchy wouldn’t forbid Hide to be an actor on that stage while the other Clowns watch).
So you see ¯_(ツ)_/¯ when it comes to this, to tarot cards, the fool’s journey or subliminal messages hidden in Ishida’s drawings, I really can’t say I know how to make good interpretations, sorry Anon.
I like my canon clues and hints too much, so don’t count on me for symbolism xD Sorry again that it has to be quite messy as an answer. Have a nice day!
No problem, I don’t mind the questions but there isn’t much more I can tell you about Itori that I haven’t already discussed recently, so while her absence certainly seems fishy + the Clowns so far have proved to be quite the big deal, your answer is “maybe”, just like “maybe” her absence is just due to terrible pacing issues and doesn’t mean anything (like Gori’s absence until the current arc).
At this point, all I have are the posts I made about her, trying to highlight maybe a few interesting clues/possibilities about what her character could be hiding, but there is unfortunately no way for me to take a wild guess and give a definite answer to your question at this point
So here’s a list of all my main posts about her, and you’re free to reach your own conclusion as to whether or not Itori could be a OEK on Eto’s level (knowing that personally, considering Eto’s link to Kaneki because of “Takatsuki Sen” and Yoshimura, I doubt that if Itori’s another strong “king” figure, she’ll be as symbolic towards Kaneki as Eto used to be. That’s just towards Kaneki though):
I hope it will be helpful somehow! Have a nice weekend Anon 🙂
To be quite honest, now that we’ve seen a little of what Donato (dat man is crazy)…
and Uta can do…
I have to admit I am a bit worried about seeing Nico in a fight. Not that they would have to be literally stronger than Donato or Uta, but we already know that they’re hard to really harm…
So I am wondering if they might not have other… tricks or “jokes” up their sleeve, like Uta and Donato.
Since Uta went to face Juuzou and co on the front side though, maybe Nico went to fight against Matsuri at the rear?
I can’t wait! ^_^
PS: where’s Itori and will we ever see her fighting?
Hey Anon! I can understand why a natural OEG, since we only saw one kakugan and it’s a very old theory, however Itori the leader of V? Why?
V is the Washuu family + the people from the garden and all the affiliates, but as Furuta explained in ch66, V and the CCG are the ones who tried to annihilate the Clowns, so I personally can’t see Itori being V’s leader for now.
…Unless you’re trying to say that somehow V might backstab Furuta and if the Clowns do as well, in case Itori is the Clowns’ leader, she’ll become V’s leader as well? That sounds a bit unlikely for now though 🙂 At least for me, haha, feel free to theorize what you want of course.
That being said, I agree that her absence is peculiar and could be linked to her having a precise role to play, whether as Washuu Iyo, someone from the garden, a OEG and also possibly the Clowns’ boss/V’s leader, who knows? 🙂
Thanks for passing by and have a nice day Anon. ^_^
Hey Anon, haha, I’m sorry, I did take you seriously :))
About V’s leader though, I’m pretty sure that the “leader” was Tsuneyoshi, seeing as V are used by the Washuu family and Tsuneyoshi was the patriarch
until Furuta killed him.
So now I’d say the leader is supposed to be Matsuri, but since Furuta was “appointed by Tsuneyoshi’s will”, it could also be Furuta himself. Or maybe they chose their leader amongst themselves and it’s an old V member like Kaiko, but since they follow Furuta now, I’d say Furuta is likely to be the best guess for V’s leader.
That’s how I see it personally 🙂
I hope it helps, thanks again for passing by!
Hello Anon 🙂 Ah, to be honest, I’ve spoken so many times about Itori’s mask feeling so peculiar to me that I’ll give you some posts to read (you might have to scroll down sometimes): [x] [x] [x] [x] But yes, I think her mask could be another clue to her having a very precise role in the story. I’m not good at talking about symbolism though so I won’t expand so much, even if I’d really love to know about if Ishida really wanted to tell us something with her mask 🙂
As for Noro’s mask: I think Noro was a special case, maintained alive thanks to Eto and her kagune, so I am not sure the masks looking similar is a clue, but that’s a good observation. To me, there isn’t any similarities between Noro and Itori aside from that though, so maybe the masks looking a bit similar with the huge mouth is not something supposed to be too analyzed.
I hope that the links will be able to answer your question about Itori’s mask, Anon! Have a nice day 🙂
Hey Anon 🙂 Ah I wish she would be mentioned, I miss her so much…!
That being said, if we consider that the human clowns are controlled (something I’m not completely sure of yet though it’s possible), I’d rather nominate someone like Kanou, if there is really a need for a supervisor.
I mean, remember that scene?
Since the dude resurrected by Kanou mentioned something about “not having a choice” attacking Kurona, maybe they are indeed controlled by a device Kanou implanted, but in that case, I’d say Kanou would have to be the one “controlling them”.
So no Itori yet in my opinion, and if her absence really is on purpose (as in, because it’s supposed to lead to a plot twist), I’d say it’s probably been a while since Furuta last saw her and we might have to wait slightly longer as well…
I have so many theories in mind for Itori right now xD that’s why I’d like for her to show up soon so that I can stop wondering what I possibly missed about her character, haha.
Have a nice day Anon!
Lol, sorry Anon. That’s just my personal idea though, so don’t take it too seriously. :3 If her absence turns out to be meaningful, I doubt that would mean she was just hiding behind a monitor or in her bar the whole time, which is why I’m hoping for something different (if her absence really is on purpose that is).
That being said, I’m not so sure about her being a natural/artificial OEG although it’s one of the possibilities… I’m just more in favor of the breeder (and thus pure full-bred ghoul) theory as of right now. Besides, someone once pointed out to me that the ending cards of Root A (drawn by Ishida) kinda showed her with two kakugans…
so between her and, say, Donato or Uta as candidates for a OEG within the Clowns’ gang, I’d go for Uta first and Donato second. As I said though, that’s just my personal opinion, so feel free to see it differently. 🙂
Have a nice day Anon and sorry for destroying your dream. 😉
Well Anon, there is definitely no problem, feel free to disagree as much as you want 🙂 I definitely like her being Iyo so that the Clowns can backstab Matsuri (and probably V and Furuta), making it painful for their ego (even if I tend to like Matsuri more and more ^^).
About Uta being a OEG, it’s all in these posts [x] [x] and for Donato, it’s because his ending card of Root A makes it suspicious (one eye is too dark in comparison of the other) + because he still makes the effort to hide his face and mostly his eyes when he fights Urie, even though everyone knows who he is, even with his mask on.
Maybe there is no OEG amongst the Clowns though, it’s also a strong possibility 😉 And I personally feel that now that it’s a Clown arc, people tend to wonder more about the fact Itori’s been as absent as Hide (and Rize). I’m hoping for a hint about her soon in any case 🙂
Thanks for the talk Anon, have a nice day!
At the same time Eto wasn’t experimented on either and everyone knew she was a OEG so… since a good part of V is made of half humans (like Arima, Furuta initially), I’m not sure that they would have experimented on OEGs unless they showed peculiar abilities, but that’s also true for full-bred ghouls (look at Arata, he’s been experimented on for a long while because his Kakuja is different).
TL;DRDonato was kept alive all this time only because he was useful to the CCG and helped them with some cases. I don’t think that’s or not a criteria dismissing him as a OEG. 😉
I’m sorry Anon, I just am not that sure of Itori being a OEG that is all. As always I could be wrong though, so it’s important that you have your own opinion on the matter until we get more clues. 🙂
Hey Anon! I can understand why a natural OEG, since we only saw one kakugan and it’s a very old theory, however Itori the leader of V? Why?
V is the Washuu family + the people from the garden and all the affiliates, but as Furuta explained in ch66, V and the CCG are the ones who tried to annihilate the Clowns, so I personally can’t see Itori being V’s leader for now.
…Unless you’re trying to say that somehow V might backstab Furuta and if the Clowns do as well, in case Itori is the Clowns’ leader, she’ll become V’s leader as well? That sounds a bit unlikely for now though 🙂 At least for me, haha, feel free to theorize what you want of course.
That being said, I agree that her absence is peculiar and could be linked to her having a precise role to play, whether as Washuu Iyo, someone from the garden, a OEG and also possibly the Clowns’ boss/V’s leader, who knows? 🙂
Thanks for passing by and have a nice day Anon. ^_^
Wait, hear me out 🙂 I know it sounds crazy when we all basically admitted he was with ch84 and 98…
…and he is extremely strong and clever, but technically no one ever said “Donato is the boss” and neither did he, so I’m just wondering about the possibilities that he is admitting to being “the boss” when he might in fact not be at all (he was always called “crown” not the boss and Uta referred to a “boss” in ch31.5).
As for why I’m wondering about this, well, we now know that the one who caught Donato was Urie’s dad…
And seeing as Urie’s dad was killed by Eto…
that means Donato’s capture was at least 13 years ago if not even before. However (and this is why my crack theory starts) the Clowns’ annihilation was…
7 years ago at the end of TG
10 years ago at the beginning of :Re
so basically 11 years to 12 years ago as of the current arc
And Donato went to prison for basically 14 years, which means that if he’s the Clowns’ boss, he was captured way before the annihilation happened + as he said to Urie…
He was running the orphanage at this time and it was “a life of peace/tranquility” which means that…
…I don’t see how a life of peace or tranquility running that orphanage (aka enjoying playing family with Amon) is supposed to also fit with the Clowns’ gang becoming more and more powerful (probably by fighting and gaining more members). So this is just bugging me because, even if the Clowns’ gang doesn’t have such a real hierarchy and its members work solo most of the time, then why would “the boss” be a guy who was apparently maybe not so involved with the gang (since he was busy with running peacefully that orphanage) as they were becoming more powerful?
For all I know it’s a plot hole because Ishida-sensei got messed up in his timeline or maybe Donato was being the boss as a part time job, but… meh, I feel something is off, even more because Donato was basically freed 1 month ago and yet the plan with Furuta launched off before he was even freed.
I know, I know, Donato was probably somehow getting intel even when in Cochlea (one way or another, or maybe even thanks to Furuta was had met with the Clowns) and besides, Nico, Uta and Itori were free doing their own things all these years, so Furuta’s plan could have been discussed while Donato remained in Cochlea but still, the timeline is bugging me…
The Clowns are an odd group, each member more used to doing things their own way instead of working together…
…So if we say the boss is Donato, that means that the Clowns managed to stay one of the most powerful organizations of the story with their boss-like figure only half into it the whole time + in prison for the last 14 years, but still somehow getting intel and planning things out carefully for when it would be time to counterattack.
Which means again that either it is a timeline mistake from Ishida’s part, or the CCG were beyond stupid when it comes to underestimating Donato and the Clowns.
The whole Clowns’ annihilation is bullshit in the first place though, and I’m wondering if Ishida intends on explaining what exactly went wrong because the CCG saw this as a great victory (thanks to Houji, Arima, Hirako and a few others) and yet they’re still kicking it and powerful so I hope someone (Juuzou?) will bring up the fact that something apparently went wrong 12 years ago.
it has to be someone who was around at the time of the Clowns’ annihilation,
it has to be someone who’s still alive
it has to be one of the reasons the Clowns managed to stay a strong group even when at a disadvantage after the annihilation
it could be someone who, like Furuta (or Yoshitoki before him) currently directing his people from a control room, is generally not seen fighting alongside the others.
And… well, we do have that one Clown who went missing ever since the beginning of :Re and whose existence is not even suspected by the CCG (see the panel of ch26 above). Besides, I made a list long ago of arguments as to why she could be seen as the boss, maybe.
Please keep in mind that it’s obviously a crack theory because Donato still is likely to be the boss but I am currently struggling with a small timeline issue that might or not get explained next chapter (since it seems Donato might start reminiscing), so I guess we’ll see next week whether this crack theory actually has some more basis or not.
After all, for all I know maybe Donato was initially the boss, then he got busy with the orphanage so he left the other Clowns on their own, but now that he’s free again and still angry at his peaceful life being taken away from him, he’s back into the gang and assuming the boss role again. I really can’t be sure ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Thanks for reading and feel free to leave your thoughts 🙂
And more clues to either a timeline issue or to Donato being put in Cochlea wayyy before the Clown’s first annihilation which was approximately 12 years ago:
Because since Amon is around 12 years old when he is currently 30-31 years old, that means Donato was sent to prison around 17-18 years ago.
Besides, since he really fought alone, I’m wondering if he even was a Clown that long ago (and if the Clowns even existed back then)? Maybe he was though…
It’s either that or he was convinced to join while he was in prison (for example, Furuta could have approached him and Roma who was a Clown herself was sent to Cochlea for a short time and she was also rated SS).
It seems odd that he would call himself the SS Clown even to the man he was killing if the CCG didn’t know him as a Clown already. And I don’t know if they would update his membership while he was in prison, though it’s possible that he just told them he was always a Clown, and with his knack for giving them info even from the inside, he could have convinced them.
But Yoshitoki and Marude mention that he has no regard for other ghouls and is pretty free about giving information, and yet when Yamori was captured they seemed to be grilling HIM on information on the Clowns so you have to wonder how much info Donato gave them.
The other clowns leaving Donato to fight alone though, isn’t entirely out of the question. It’s a little stranger if he was the boss back then, but given the way Nico treats Roma, it wouldn’t surprise me if Clowns don’t really regularly back each other up when the CCG comes.
And then there are all the seeming connections with Uta, who is probably around Amon’s age, give or take a few years. Uta’s tattoos imply that he knew Donato at some point or at the very least knew quite a bit about him and had a reason to look up to him or care about him. But it seems more likely that they knew each other.
If Donato was a Clown before, he must have retreated to that orphanage more than 20 years ago.
But Ishida did give us a specific year to reference here, calling Amon 12 as opposed to just leaving it a “a boy” so I suspect we’ll be getting some clarification sooner or later. Hopefully sooner.
Ah, a lot of good points! Especially about Yamori being indeed the one who had to confess about the Clowns when Donato already was in Cochlea and supposedly didn’t care about ratting out other ghouls… Hm, I can’t help but suspect a timeline plot hole though, since the annihilation was only mentioned in TG and rarely ever in :Re and that makes for a lot of details here and there to take in consideration (Yamori’s torture, Uta’s tattoos as you said, was Donato already a Clown in Ishida’s mind back in TG?).
We will see, I think you’re right and Ishida will probably address this matter during this arc anyway. 🙂
I also agree that the Clowns don’t necessarily help each other out (poor Roma lol), but in that case, that really proves that the “boss” isn’t a typical gang boss (then again, only Uta spoke of a boss so we should really be careful) and that during the Clowns’ annihilation, it was probably up to each member to save their own skin.
…Which definitely makes for an interesting dynamic when you look at the 3 survivors Itori, Uta and Nico.
Finally, it’s true that Donato is the King of Diamonds in the TG trump cards deck (something I had briefly forgotten last week), so maybe he really is the boss-like figure (if there is any), but it’s just that the way the gang works is very peculiar and there is no real solidarity.
About Amon: since I’ve been asked about this several times before, the short answer is for now no I don’t think so (or at least not before the very end of this arc if he comes back). Long answers: [x] [x] 🙂 It’s just my opinion though so I could be totally wrong.
About Touka losing her brother and dad: well, I personally think Arata will definitely appear in this arc and might finally be freed from his horrible condition as a test subject but that yes, he’ll probably die a free man in his son’s arms before the arc ends. ;_;
However, I don’t think that Ayato will die because, in my opinion, what Ishida is trying to do with Touka’s character is to make her a stronger person who will be able to emotionally support the others who will need it (namely Kaneki) and I feel that killing Ayato now wouldn’t help her character development at all.
Besides, there have been hints about a possible romance between Ayato and Hinami in canon before (which is to say killing him now would bring trouble to more than just Touka’s characterization), so I think the point of this arc is to have Ayato meeting his dad since he had issues about the way his dad lived for years (which is why he left and ended up joining Aogiri)…
and so killing him off in this arc when he still has a lot of potential would be a weak plot twist in my opinion.
So Touka losing her dad -> yes, because we need to address Arata’s situation at some point but I doubt that after all these years he can survive away from the lab, however Touka losing her brother-> no, because counterproductive for her character development and Ayato’s, in my opinion.
And about Donato: I think that considering his love for Amon, Donato only ever had one child in his heart, even if Amon isn’t biologically is, so I personally don’t think that Donato is related to either Itori or Uta (please remember that he’s Russian too and nothing was ever said about Itori or Uta being only half Japanese). There is still the possibility of Nico, Itori and/or Uta becoming acquainted with Donato as kids through the orphanage but… I wouldn’t even be so sure of that.
EDIT: wah, it’s so late that I read too fast and forgot a question. About the original Qs, I think Urie and Mutsuki are on a similar path because they have elevated Rc cells rates, however since Mutsuki has deeper unsolved issues than Urie, it’s possible that Urie will endanger the few chances he has left not to become the equivalent of a real OEG in order to save Mutsuki from themselves.
As for Saiko, well, she’s a good character and she’s really neutral towards ghouls so… I could see her switching sides any time should she need to do it for Kaneki’s, Urie’s or Mutsuki’s fates. Also in my opinion, she’s the Qs who has the biggest similarity to Amon, so whatever happens to her, she’ll need to learn to stay true to her beliefs and remain neutral and that way she’ll be able to protect the people she cares about.
I hope I gave decent answers to all your questions Anon! Have a nice weekend! 🙂
Wait, hear me out 🙂 I know it sounds crazy when we all basically admitted he was with ch84 and 98…
…and he is extremely strong and clever, but technically no one ever said “Donato is the boss” and neither did he, so I’m just wondering about the possibilities that he is admitting to being “the boss” when he might in fact not be at all (he was always called “crown” not the boss and Uta referred to a “boss” in ch31.5).
As for why I’m wondering about this, well, we now know that the one who caught Donato was Urie’s dad…
And seeing as Urie’s dad was killed by Eto…
that means Donato’s capture was at least 13 years ago if not even before. However (and this is why my crack theory starts) the Clowns’ annihilation was…
7 years ago at the end of TG
10 years ago at the beginning of :Re
so basically 11 years to 12 years ago as of the current arc
And Donato went to prison for basically 14 years, which means that if he’s the Clowns’ boss, he was captured way before the annihilation happened + as he said to Urie…
He was running the orphanage at this time and it was “a life of peace/tranquility” which means that…
…I don’t see how a life of peace or tranquility running that orphanage (aka enjoying playing family with Amon) is supposed to also fit with the Clowns’ gang becoming more and more powerful (probably by fighting and gaining more members). So this is just bugging me because, even if the Clowns’ gang doesn’t have such a real hierarchy and its members work solo most of the time, then why would “the boss” be a guy who was apparently maybe not so involved with the gang (since he was busy with running peacefully that orphanage) as they were becoming more powerful?
For all I know it’s a plot hole because Ishida-sensei got messed up in his timeline or maybe Donato was being the boss as a part time job, but… meh, I feel something is off, even more because Donato was basically freed 1 month ago and yet the plan with Furuta launched off before he was even freed.
I know, I know, Donato was probably somehow getting intel even when in Cochlea (one way or another, or maybe even thanks to Furuta was had met with the Clowns) and besides, Nico, Uta and Itori were free doing their own things all these years, so Furuta’s plan could have been discussed while Donato remained in Cochlea but still, the timeline is bugging me…
The Clowns are an odd group, each member more used to doing things their own way instead of working together…
…So if we say the boss is Donato, that means that the Clowns managed to stay one of the most powerful organizations of the story with their boss-like figure only half into it the whole time + in prison for the last 14 years, but still somehow getting intel and planning things out carefully for when it would be time to counterattack.
Which means again that either it is a timeline mistake from Ishida’s part, or the CCG were beyond stupid when it comes to underestimating Donato and the Clowns.
The whole Clowns’ annihilation is bullshit in the first place though, and I’m wondering if Ishida intends on explaining what exactly went wrong because the CCG saw this as a great victory (thanks to Houji, Arima, Hirako and a few others) and yet they’re still kicking it and powerful so I hope someone (Juuzou?) will bring up the fact that something apparently went wrong 12 years ago.
it has to be someone who was around at the time of the Clowns’ annihilation,
it has to be someone who’s still alive
it has to be one of the reasons the Clowns managed to stay a strong group even when at a disadvantage after the annihilation
it could be someone who, like Furuta (or Yoshitoki before him) currently directing his people from a control room, is generally not seen fighting alongside the others.
And… well, we do have that one Clown who went missing ever since the beginning of :Re and whose existence is not even suspected by the CCG (see the panel of ch26 above). Besides, I made a list long ago of arguments as to why she could be seen as the boss, maybe.
Please keep in mind that it’s obviously a crack theory because Donato still is likely to be the boss but I am currently struggling with a small timeline issue that might or not get explained next chapter (since it seems Donato might start reminiscing), so I guess we’ll see next week whether this crack theory actually has some more basis or not.
After all, for all I know maybe Donato was initially the boss, then he got busy with the orphanage so he left the other Clowns on their own, but now that he’s free again and still angry at his peaceful life being taken away from him, he’s back into the gang and assuming the boss role again. I really can’t be sure ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Thanks for reading and feel free to leave your thoughts 🙂
remember how i said the Clowns Timeline was a mess for another time?
This is why. Donato is clearly a powerful and respected elder member of the clowns, but even if he is their leader (maybe because Ishida doesn’t want to do the same twist twice) was he really in charge for the last 15 odd years?
More recently, it would have been possible for Donato to communicate with the Clowns on the outside through Souta, who had ample access to Cochlea. But Souta is 24 now, so even though he was in V at the time, it would have been a lot harder for a little 10 year old Garden Child to do any of this. It’s also possible there are more clowns in the ranks of the CCG or V, or there was another communication method available.
But it’s also possible that Donato either isn’t actually at the head or hasn’t been the acting head for a long time. Itori is an interesting option for the reasons stated above, but a few things give me pause 1) That line Uta gives Renji about the boss makes it sound like it isn’t someone Renji knows very well. This isn’t all that definitive, because who has ever known Uta to speak straightforwardly and tell the truth to people. 2) Age. Assuming Donato was actively in charge until around the time he was arrested, then sure. Uta ran one of the most dangerous wards in Tokyo at approximately the same age, and she’s clearly crafty enough to do it, but if Donato had tapped out BEFORE that, I think the logical choice becomes Nico.
I’ve said before that I imagine there is more to Nico than we’ve been told, and he’s the sort of guy who I feel like could be keepings things going from the sidelines. A kind of seemingly laid back boss that lets people do what they will so long as its fun. If only because he’s clearly old enough to have been active in the Clowns for years before Donato’s arrest, which would account for what was going on while Donato was running his peaceful child farm.
(The “someone else entirely” theory, which @midnight-in-town talks more about [x] in reblogs is similarly an issue because of the age thing. The choices are pretty slim if we are assuming a single leader for the past 15+ years.)
Now, it’s also possible the rise of the Clowns at the time was the result of momentum. Donato as leader set up a very well organized, self perpetuating machine (cult) that kept going even after he left to chill at the orphanage.
It’s also possible, depending in large part on who these mob clowns are, that the Clowns we know of and the Clowns of yore aren’t really the same group. That Donato, seeing as how the CCG knows him as a Clown, was part of the old group, but that these current core clowns are a revival or descendant, rather than a continuation. In which case, I could even imagine Uta or Itori organizing everyone and then appointing Donato, a hold over from the old group, as leader in name.
Without knowing Uta and Itori’s age for sure, the timeline we get for them puts them in their late twenties or early thirties. And as powerful and influential as they were in their teens, it’s unlikely they were in charge of something like the Clowns as children. They are seemingly close in age to Amon.
There is also the fact that between the rosary and cross tattoo and the eyeball thing this past chapter, Ishida is hinting at a stronger past between Uta and Donato.
Which of course once again suggests that theory that there were Ghoul Kids at the orphanage as well.
But then if Uta is indeed the mystery ghoul let loose by V on the Yasuhisas, that complicates things even further (as well as adding a new complication to the Furuta & Clowns dynamic, and adding a new layer to the Kanou connection.) And then there’s that illustration of Itori holding the funeral portrait along side Uta and Renji from way way back. What was that about?
Which is all to say the Clowns timeline is a mess and it really needs explaining. This includes the relationship between the rest of the Clowns and Furuta.
Mystery is interesting for groups behind the scenes but both V and the Clowns are in the spotlight now, so it’s high time we get some clarification.
@hysyartmaskstudio Thanks for your input, you make a lot of good points, especially about Nico. 🙂
It’s true that since everyone suspects Itori to be shady because we haven’t seen her for a while + since everyone expects Uta to be crazy strong because he’s really mysterious, in the end, no one really pays attention to Nico who was the third Clown who managed to escape from both the annihilation and a stay in Cochlea (but I guess it’s also true because he appears to be more of a peaceful observer than someone who’s aching to be violent).
Besides, recently he rather did a solid favor to Kaneki, so you’re right and he shouldn’t be out of the candidates’ list for the position of the boss.
One more thing I wanted to say, about this scene that you mentioned…
I wouldn’t trust so much what Uta said. It might be true and Uta really doesn’t really get what their boss-like figure (whoever it is) intends to do but it might also be some sort of a lie, since he very probably also lied about not knowing what the Clowns intended to do with Kaneki.
I mean, even if there is a boss, the hierarchy in that organization is peculiar and as seen with ch143, they all more or less have a say in what the gang does so Uta would definitely have a clue about what the Clowns want to do with Kaneki.
Anyway, I agree, more answers would be nice and I’m just hoping my (and your) issues with the timeline aren’t supposed to be a plot hole.
I personally never considered Uta and Itori could be Washuus (but I’ve read some posts about it from people who did) but it’s true I thought it was possible that they came from the Garden.
However, now that we know the Sunlit Garden is mainly the result of Tsuneyoshi’s harem (I am wondering about Hsiao though since she isn’t Japanese), I just am not so sure anymore that they were from the Garden, which complicates every theory about them, haha.
About Itori though, I just don’t see the suspicious scenes on the calendar that you’re talking about (she appeared on two days if I remember correctly)? But in any case, yeah, I really like the theory that she was a breeder because of things she said about hybrids…
…which is what we were just explained about Tsuneyoshi’s harem when you think about it (besides the fact that Tsuneyoshi does have a lot of hybrid children, even if they don’t live very long).
So maybe she was supposed to be a womb too, like Rize, but she also escaped? The OEG!Itori theory comes from the fact we only ever saw one of her kakugans in ch34, so that’s why I think the breeder/womb!Itori theory does seem more likely at this point!
Besides the breeder!Itori theory though, I also have another possibility in mind for Uta’s origins (and maybe even Itori’s, should she not be a breeder):
Ghoulification is the process so far known as turning humans into OEGs and I don’t know what the CCG did that wasso “evil”that Kanou betrayed them (to do his own ghoulification experiments) but back to Uta, the possibility exists that he is a OEG, so maybe he is the result of one of the CCG’s ghoulification experiments (that were “so evil” that the twins’ father tried to double cross the CCG and Kanou betrayed them).
That would make sense when you think about it:
we know he is apparently super strong (enough so that he was leading one of the deadliest wards when he was below 20 years old + he doesn’t use his kagune when fighting, if he really has one),
I mentioned the possibility he could be a OEG, which would explain why he would tattoo his eyes in the first place.
We know joining the Clowns’ gang and being so interested in Kaneki has to have a link with his own objectives, which are, like the rest of him, completely mysterious
And there is this scene about when the twins’ parents were killed…
This is the ghoul who killed them on V/the Washuus’ orders, and that’s what Uta looked like when he was younger…
So, ahem, maybe V/the Washuus used Uta (after an experiment of the ghoulification process) to kill the Yasuhisa parents since he was really unstable when he was younger.
On top of all that, there is all the weird stuff he can say, like in ch111, when Yomo asks him “how did you become so strong” and he goes “I don’t know about that”.
TL;DR:
About Itori: for now my main theory about her is that she was (supposed to be?) a breeder, so she probably was a part of the Garden at some point if that’s the case.
in that case, the theory that she could be a OEG is wrong indeed.
if she was a breeder/womb, that makes the crack theory that she could be disguising as Iyo (Matsuri’s wife) more likely.
About Uta: for now my main theory about him is that he underwent the (according to Kanou) “evil” ghoulification process at the hands of the CCG turning him into a OEG
in that case, he was probably the ghoul V/the Washuus used to kill Yasuhisa Nanao and his wife
he might have escaped and joined the 4th ward after killing them.
There you go, sorry for the long answer, I hope it makes sense! Please remember, these could change with new manga content.
Thanks for passing by and have a nice weekend Anon! 🙂
add onn ur theory about itori is interesting ,i reread chapter tg 33 & tg 46.5,look at rize & itori red mark-may be they are related wushuu or breeder/womb
@lilysama86 thanks for your input 🙂 However I think it’s just a droplet of water on Rize’s chest in that scene :3 She doesn’t have any mole there in ch1 (both the original and the redraw).
That being said, I think Itori’s mole gotta be an important distinctive sign seeing as Ishida commented on it and so I am waiting for more appearance of Washuu Iyo to see if I can somehow check for sure whether that mole is here or not.
Yes I’m that obsessed about Itori’s whereabouts. xD
Still, thanks 🙂 it’s true Rize and Itori have a few similarities anyway!
midnight-in-town 
