So we saw everybody band together in an epic feat of teamwork, the question is why exactly did it not work in bringing owl 2.0 down?
It’s probably something as simple as the characters really haven’t grown enough to earn this vicotry. Which is what necessitates the clown shake down in the first place.
Here, let me demonstrate with a breakdown of Kaika vs Yusa, the only real character vs character interaction rather than character vs giant monster that we get in the fight.
First, he calls the two remaining members of Zero Squad Arima’s lapdogs. Not only that but Sheep that he herded himself. That’s a rather thinly veiled and obvious Jesus metaphor.
Remember, Arima Kishou died for our sins. Ishida likes to remind us of it approximately every five chapters that Arima Kishou is indeed dead.
Arima is so universally mourned by everyone it’s almost enough to make you forget that he was a morally ambiguous character to begin with. It’s almost like his death has wiped the slate clean on him.
As I’ve said before though, Tg: Re would never glorify suicide like that. Lately, we’ve been witnessing a slow deconstruction on Arima’s sacrifice. Including the facts that Take clearly does not know entirely what the big picture is, that he relies on Arima’s words too much, and the fact that Zero Squad has been whittled down to its last two remaining members.
Arima’s sacrifice of his own life to make Kaneki the strongest of all ghouls was destroyed when the CCG simply replaced him with Juuzou. Arima’s choice to leave behind the zero squad with Kaneki to protect him, results in two of them dying in an almost direct result of his choice not to tell Ui to avoid confrontation.
Take holds information to himself, and isn’t really super clear anymore on what Arima’s goals were to begin with. So, to summarize the story itself is still framing Arima’s choice to sacrifice himself ambiguously. As in there were some good things, and some bad things about that choice. However, the characters themselves still view Arima in exactly that light.
Yomo even brings up this exact same notion to Take. That Arima did a lot of bad things and hurt a lot of people, even if he was doing it for good ends ultimately those wounds go away, and Take basically says it doesn’t matter because Arima is dead now. He brushes off the opportunity to think critically about Arima, because no matter what he concludes it won’t change the fact that Arima is still dead. However, it does matter for the sake of the living.
Take, while still acknowledging that Arima is dead is still working tirelessly to earn his praise and following the orders of a dead man.
So much so, he fails to grasp entirely what Arima’s purpose in leaving Take the zero squad should have been. Even after losing two members in a pointless sacrifice, Take does not realize he should stop bringing Yusa onto battlefields with him and forcing the child soldier raised from birth to fight, to fight more.
Kaiko takes both Takeomi and Kuramoto out of the fight easily, but from a character perspective it’s clear why. Neither Kuramoto nor Takeomi have grown. Takeomi simply walks straight back into being a CCG officer, not even acknowledging what happened to his father and mourning him, and Kuramoto does not even try to resolve his conflict with Take, simply choosing to make a bunch of passive aggressive comments.
Remember, Kuramoto truly made himself vulernable for a moment when Take left. However, as usual he’s back to just making sly comments behind his fox face.
Kuramoto wanted to believe in him, that he had reasons to do what he was doing. His sense of betrayal came not from Take’s actions, but the fact that Take chose not to talk to him about it beforehand, and Take really hasn’t changed anything in that regard, so Kuramoto simply slinky behind his mask once more.
Then, to the meat of the fight. Kaiko’s not just mocking Yusa here, he’s mocking the pedestal that Arima is put upon by the zero squad. Which is why Kaiko chooses these specific reminders. Arima was a child soldier, just like Yusa, presumably just like Kaiko as well.
Then the juiciest moment of the chapter, while dangling a blade at Yusa’s neck he mutters, “Am I like Arima, yet?”
He’s not making the comparison between Yusa and Arima anymore, but rather Yusa and himself. Kaiko raised child soldiers obediently as a part of V, but so did Arima as well. Not only that, he did the exact same thing to Sasaki. Literally, every flashback we see of Arima presents him as being a cruel and ruthless teacher, even if he was one with good intentions.
So, what Kaiko is taunting Yusa about is that by drawing out the fight to test his strength, by holding a blade at his throat, really he’s acting exactly like Arima as well. “Am I like Arima, yet?” He’s challenging Yusa’s perfect image of Arima.
However, Yusa really does fail to respond to that in the fight way. Take just sinks once again into calling that name an honor. He adopts his perfect image of Arima that he’s using to fight for once more. Literally what Take should be saying to counteract that is “You’re not Arima, you’re you Yusa…” but Take can’t really grasp that, because Take himself keeps dragging Yusa into combat because that’s what Arima told him to do.
Which is why Ui fails to think critically as well. As touching as his rememberance of Hairu and Arima is, and also even though he’s leagues above Shuu who refuses to remember even Matsumae and Karren’s name, we should remember that Ui was given the oppurtunity to tell the CCG the truth about Furuta, Arima and Arima’s legacy and he chose to lie instead.
Even though, Ui himself much earlier was the one who grasped the nuance of the situation, that people were allowing Furuta to take power, not just Furuta being the only bad egg in the CCG. Blaming it all on Furuta, is probably something that Ui did to protect both Take and Arima’s name, but utlimately it’s the wrong choice, and one that brings him farther away from the truth.
Which is likely the reason why Ui is still smoking as well. His smoking is a sign of his own personal emotional repression. After Take tells him at least part of the truth of why he left, Ui says he’s going to be smoking a lot more now. He really hasn’t come to terms with it, and probably won’t until he’s set up confront Hairu, which may come soon.
However, at the end of the day the characters have failed to grow which is why instead of banding together to heroically defeat Owl, they’re exposed to round two. The heroic blow that Yusa dealt Kaiko essentially meaning nothing as it stitches itself up right away, the owl exploding and killing more just like when it looks it might be detained.
As per the usual in Tokyo Ghoul these problems can’t be overcome with fighting and strength alone.
As for what will happen next, considering this is an owl kagune I wonder if it’s bait to lure Amon out. After this explosion there probably won’t be many ground investigators left that can match it.
Amon showing up to help his comrades (and “for peace!”) against Owl 2.0 would make a lot of sense, especially considering that the current situation is rather strongly reminiscing of what the CCG tried to do with him in ch114/115 (with another parallel once Seidou hopefully shows up).
it would be interesting to see Amon trying to face the one who’s possibly Eto and thus half the responsible party behind him becoming a OEG, something he still can’t fully accept to this day.
I was discussing this with @amonmahboi yesterday but actually, Donato having “fun” with someone who’s possibly Eto (other strong possibilities being Hairu and Karren) as payback for what happened to Amon between TG and :Re would be a very ironic development, especially if Amon indeed shows up to fight that Owl 2.0.
It would be like “I’m stuck in the past because of my horrible father figure and despite becoming a OEG, but here I am fighting for peace against a monster who’s threatening my comrades, not knowing that this monster is actually the result of my horrible father figure seeking revenge for what happened to me”.
It makes a good setting for Kaiko’s round two when round one seemed rather hopeless. At least to me. Oh well, just some thoughts. :3
It seems the current objective of the clowns is to buy time for whatever Furuta’s next objective to seize is. Considering that all of the major clowns (with the exception of Rio) are united and leading this attack.
I can’t help but think their strategy is going to be more complicated then, sick the v investigators on the CCG Ghoul alliance, and then if that fails sick the giant monster on them.
All remaining clowns have shown to be intelligent and thinking fighters, as Roma herself seems to have been purged from the ranks and lost due to being too much of the opposite, going too crazy, and having too much fun and therefore relying more on brute strength than thoughtful strategy. They’ll most likely play to exploit the weaknesses of the current characters fighting so here’s some thought as to what those weaknesses could be.
OKAY I HAVE TWO QUESTIONS IN PARTICULAR. Uimhir a hAon: fucking, WHAT?
Uimhir a dó: fUCKIN, WHAT?!
Can someone please explain?
If there is an element of truth to the wild accusations of everything being his fault that Rize throws at Kaneki, is that he did not have any clear plans for the future or an idea what he wanted. I went over this before, but basically Rize pokes holes in his plans easily. So much so that it looks like either result for him was not that well thought out.
Kaneki’s decision to wait where they were safe in the 24th ward resulted in all of them being boxed in and raided by the CCG, the so called “Kouryugi” operation. However, even when he suggests that they could have done the total opposite, they could have ambushed the CCG and raided them for real before the raid ever happened he’s met with this result.
What Rize points out is that Kaneki clearly does not want this result either, he does not want to beat the CCG into submission and make them submit to his will. Kaneki abhors violence and bloodshed, so even if he had made up his mind to make the completely opposite decision, because of Kaneki’s own lack of forethought as to what would come next it’s likely he would have resulted in a similiar place.
Kaneki is not thinking things through, it’s a complex problem and Kaneki cannot solve it by simply rushing forward. Even his own choice to rush forward that he had no choice but to keep moving forward is poked a hole in by Rize, who casually points out he could have chosen to do nothing instead.
This isn’t true obviously, but it’s important to notice the contrast. Kaneki insisted he had no choice but to keep moving forward, whereas Rize brings up the opposite. He could have done nothing. It’s to poke holes in that mindset.
The problem this chapter in part is highlighting is that Kaneki does not think things through to their deepest extent, and when he charges forward with these half formed ideals in mind he ends up with results he does not want. Then there is the bottom line, because of this Kaneki does not know exactly what he wants. He knows in vague terms maybe…
The point of paralleling this with what Ui said to Take is that we had a similiar question asked of Take a few chapters ago.
Is this really what Arima wanted? Was this the result of his plan? Take however does not know, because he bases his decisions on what Arima asked of him and Arima is not there. Arima is dead and therefore unable to answer the question. To begin with though, Arima and Eto’s ideal world was extremely vague. It basically went “Not this one.”
So a few chapters later in an arc where it was asked the question “Is all of this destruction what Arima, wanted?” and pointed out that without Arima around the two heads of Zero Squad fell into a needless conflict with one another. An arc that’s been establishing so far that maybe it’s a good idea to figure out what you want before running into the fight.
We have a ghoul and human alliance being formed for the reason of “mmmmmhhmm” and the goals of “mmmyeahhhhh.” The fact that Ui asks again if this is what Take wanted and Take kind of… doesn’t answer is more evidence that these characters aren’t quite there yet.
It wouldn’t make sense to punish Kaneki to such an extent for not having what he wanted, and what he was trying to accomplish figured out if we see characters acting similarly now and banding together on equally flaky ideals. I think it’s meant to be ominous, not that the ghoul alliance is bad per se because it’s a step in the right direction but also they just like Kaneki are banding together only for vague ideals and nothing concrete and no solid plans beyond the one obvious obstacle in front of them.
If you think everything that Furuta and Kanou have done so far is wrong, then we really should not be following Fruuta’s scenario and script so closely to a T. I think after this dragon is resolved, the next arc will be about that, characters realizing they have to break free of Furuta’s script and take control of the narrative for themselves and for their own reasons. Not just platitudes like “protection”, “duty”, “human”, “ghoul”, “ghoul investigator”, “peace” etc, because they are people outside of these words.
Nah, you nailed it and I don’t really have much else to add, other than to emphasis the point that Kaneki isn’t entirely to blame for Goat’s failure – in direct contrast to what ‘Rize’ tells him, and he reaffirms himself – and that there are other players who share responsibility in encouraging and allowing him to make decisions that they actively disagreed with.
It’s a conflict the organisation faced from its very inception: it can’t decide whether it’s a collective of oppositional factions who unite in pursuit of a broad ideological goal, or just a devoted entourage to the OEK [you wrote a great post on this before so linking again in case anyone else wants to read]. The majority of Goat is made up of weak, starving ghouls and there’s no real reason to begrudge them for simply seeking out a guardian (in the short term) but it also has a functioning executive of smart, skilled actors who consented to an alliance, and who (mostly) have repeatedly failed to oppose Kaneki – and not even out of fear, just… comfort or reckless obedience – even at the expense of the wider community they claim to be fighting for, and at Ken’s own detriment too.
I think (or hope?) that was a deliberate parallel encouraging us as readers to remember that, and hopefully it’s a sign that those characters will be forced to confront their culpability and take the steps necessary to addressing that idk. It seems like Hirako might be contemplating that after both Yusa and Ui hit him with questions he couldn’t answer (I wish he’d just talk fs), and Tsukiyama has also started to doubt his own passivity (“If only I had…”) so I’m optimistic.
Hi Anon! Oh, I’ve seen a debate on that actually between @echo-from-the-void and @eto-when-and-where [x] and I meant to try and help, but I was so very busy last week that I thought I would leave the matter alone until I had enough time to try and solve whether this is a little plot hole or not. ;_;
Anyway, I gave it some thinking after receiving your ask, so here’s the thing: I don’t think there is any plot hole, it’s just that we all made the mistake to assume that…
…Roma was approximately 51 years at the time of ch135. So actually, I think the omake you’re talking about
is a hint to the very complicated timeline about the remaining Clowns that we still know almost nothing about.
Basically, I think Roma was 51 years old at the time she was thrown into Cochlea (that panel of ch135 indeed), but what’s left is for us to determine when exactly that was and that’s when it gets tricky, since we’re currently in 2015-2017.
(crack theory under read more)
Considering the omake with Tsuneyoshi though, my theory is as follows:
Roma lost to Tsuneyoshi just before 1945 and was thrown into Cochlea back then, which would explain why…
…there are several hints that apparently a long time passed between the moment she was locked up and then freed by Aogiri.
Besides that, there are other little hints that make me think that Roma was locked up a (very?) long time ago actually:
Because “Gypsy” being a name from an old past would explain why we never heard about her special reputation before: ghouls in their 20s/30s probably don’t know about her, because Roma was locked up so long ago in Cochlea.
Also…
Roma herself told us that she knew about when “the King of the Underground” was rampaging around, which is to say she knew or met…
…”the Nagaraj” that led to the creation of the predecessor organization to the CCG in 1890 (more details for the general timeline here).
So, assuming that Tsuneyoshi is the one who threw her in jail when she was 51: 1944(~) – 51 => if Roma was born around 1890…
…it would fit with the timeline and her being around when the Washuus were trying to deal with the Nagaraj.
TL;DR At the age of 51, Roma was thrown in Cochlea by Tsuneyoshi who defeated her apparently around 1945, which means that…
the “Clowns’ annihilation” that the CCG led only 10+ years ago had no direct link to Roma who was already in jail. In fact, Roma apparently was the founder of a gang that lasted several decades, which is why “even the Clowns [who were defeated by the CCG 10 years ago] didn’t know who their leader was”.
Sorry for all the pictures, it’s supposed to be helpful. xD
That’s my take on it but I’m still waiting for more hints about the Clowns’ gang and the part of the timeline that’s dedicated to them, since the more the story goes, the more hints we get that they are definitely older than they look (and thus they make everything more complicated). :3
Take with a big grain of salt though! And have a nice day. :))
are most likely this couple above. Initially, I thought they were supposed to represent Kaneki and his mom…
but since it makes no sense at all, giving the context, now I’m thinking that they’re just supposed to represent the sheer insanity of the situation: by going on a rampage and destroying Tokyo, some people probably were killed in their sleep by Kaneki, with no idea of what happened.
I could be wrong, but right now I am not sure that they’re representing characters we know (or if so, I really don’t see who). 🙂
I hope it helps :3 Have a nice day!
Hello! And it was indeed a while ago, haha, because I’ve somehow switched to Yomo/Hirako with the last batch of omakes. xDD
To answer your question though, I think it originated back when the Anteiku raid arc took place, because Hirako tried to help Irimi’s situation against Hachikawa and it was kinda cute, because Irimi is “the black dober” and Hirako had this link to dogs. Besides, Irimi, a ghoul, had just saved a grandma while Hirako, an investigator, was trying to help her (a ghoul’s) situation, so a few people like me started seeing them as this little crack ship with almost no basis in canon.
That being said, they had almost 0 interaction so far in canon aside from the Anteiku raid arc and the duo Hirako & Yomo…
is just fabulous and adorkable, so I really am starting to enjoy them together a lot more than I probably should. x)) (credits for the translated omakes goes to @randomthoughtpatterns [x])
I hope it answers your question :)) Have a nice day Anon!
Hello Anon! Aah, I have so many thoughts and possibilities in mind that I don’t even know where to start. -_- To sum up, I think that Ishida is literally creating many different cliffhangers (for all the different fighting sides) and that we will find out about what happened to each of them when Kaneki comes back with all the food.
You see, Kaneki finally was able to will himself into making a choice…
and sticking by it…
so I believe the whole point is that, by the last chapter of vol 13 (ch142 or 143, me thinks), he will come back only to witness and be astonished by the consequences of this choice.
Anyway, looking at all that’s happening:
we don’t know what happened 6 hours ago to Urie meeting “Hide”
did he accept, did he refuse?
whatever happened to Takeomi and Yoriko?
then we have Hirako & the 0 squad vs Hajime & Ui
we might still get a few pages of this side in the next chapters before it gets its own cliffhanger
we have Yomo vs Mutsuki & Aura
here’s what might happen but honestly I doubt we will see more of this side (and thus if Yomo survived) before Kaneki comes back
we have Ayato supposedly coming back from the depth of the 24th ward
will he be in time or not? if he’s back in time, where will he show up? Saving Touka and Hina? Or maybe Naki’s side?
Naki & Miza (and their respective gangs) vs the Oggai
big cliffhanger for Naki today, similar to Yomo’s during the Cochlea arc really, which is why I think it might not be the end yet for him (but then again, seeing the cliffhanger, I doubt we will see more of him before Kaneki comes back)
Finally we have Suzuya & co vs Touka & Hina & the “weak part of Goat”
which means bad news for everyone who doesn’t have plot armor (aka who isn’t Hina or Touka), but we will likely get more focus on this side until there is a bigger cliffhanger.
So I believe we will discover what happened to all of them when Kaneki comes back, in a similar fashion as with TG ch143, even if I don’t think :Re ch143 will be the very end (unless there is a third part but I doubt it). As I also explained here, Furuta said that he “has to win” this round so that Dragon will then be able to join the stage…
…as “the final enemy” (or “the hero” depending on which side you witness the conflict), which means to me that Furuta intends on wiping out as many of Kaneki’s allies as he can so that Kaneki will go berserk against him for the final showdown.
That’s why Ishida emphasized on Kaneki sticking by his choice and not going back in my opinion, so that he will feel absolutely awful about the consequences and wishing to seek the responsible party to destroy them.
Since you asked, more specifically now, about Touka and Juuzou:
I don’t think that Touka will die
but I also don’t think that Juuzou will try to spare her and even if he somehow did, “Furuta” being there with him won’t leave him much of a choice anyway
I’m not exactly sure of how all of it will happen yet, but since there is still the matter of her complicated pregnancy that is supposed to be a part of the plot [x]…
I tend to think that she will either be made into a hostage by the CCG (and her pregnancy will make her meet Kanou)
or she will somehow be taken in by the Clowns’ gang (since it’s possible Itori could have a role to play towards her pregnancy)
Again, I’m not completely sure yet of how this arc will keep going and what exactly will happen to Touka, but I just don’t see a happy reunion between her and Kaneki at the end of it, simply because it seems the most logical when it comes to the plot.
Finally, about Naki:
I was really upset at first, thinking that it might be the end, but then I thought about it, I even discussed it with other fans who didn’t like the idea of him being dead either, and we concluded that his cliffhanger is too similar to the one Yomo had in Cochlea to think that it’s definitely the end.
Besides, there is still the matter of Kanou supposedly bringing back Gagi and Guge, which is pointless if Naki is not here anymore to witness it so, while I’m less confident where Hooguro and Shousei are concerned, I don’t think Naki (or Miza) will die this time around.
However, I do think it’s impossible for either Miza or Naki to survive the Oggai without someone else’s help and, in my opinion, the options are:
Ayato => we know he is coming back from deep below, and initially I thought he’d save Touka and Hina, but if Touka is to be separated from the rest of Goat, it doesn’t seem logical for Ayato to show up there, especially when we’re all expecting him to. So that’s why I think that maybe Ayato and his group will arrive in time to help Naki and Miza
Nico => that’s @linkspooky‘s idea and hopefully they’ll write a great meta about this, but since ch129 hinted that the Clowns would most likely be involved in the current arc (as we saw with Roma and Rio already) and since Nico did things differently from Furuta before, they might save Naki for old times’ sake (since Nico was fond of Yamori).
I’m aware that some people think Naki activated his Kakuja (like @amon15 told me) but I’m not sure it will be enough to face the Oggai, which is why an exterior help might do the trick and save him and Miza (since I don’t think the point is to have Naki and Miza die, on the contrary, but then again I’m hoping @linkspooky will do a meta about this because they would explain way better than I).
TL;DR this arc is a real mess because it feels like many developments are possible, so I’m sorry if my thoughts don’t make sense. I believe Yomo, Hirako, Touka, Hina, Naki and Miza are/will be safe though (I really hope so), even if I don’t think Kaneki will find Touka to be with the others when he comes back (and there is still the matter of Ayato being on time or not to help either Naki’s side or Touka’s).
As always, the Clowns possibly being involved make it all more complex than it should be, so we will probably need to reach the very end of vol 13 (ch142 or 143 surely) before we can be sure of anything.
Sorry for the long answer, but I hope it helps. Have a nice day Anon!
I’ve circled the names of the characters I’m worried about and I’m indeed worried about the 0 squad, even if I find it hard to believe that they will all die. That being said, my main worry is more Yomo, Touka’s baby and mostlythe three kids who are represented with Touka & Hina.
The 0 squad are facing Hajime and Ui, and I think we can all agree that Hajime will definitely not back down, but at least they know how to fight and they’re a team which makes their situation slightly more safe, compared to Yomo’s situation (who’s alone) and the three kids with Touka (who don’t know how to protect themselves).
So they’re not the most at risk in my opinion, Anon.
Hello! Well, to be honest, every week people tend to read the chapter quite fast and without necessarily putting it back in the context of the current arc with the other chapters so, because Kaneki doesn’t always make for the best leader, automatically some readers think that every decision that he makes is careless.
For example, he got criticized for not noticing that Hajime could be located, but Tsukiyama and the others didn’t notice either, so I fail to see why this in particular makes him careless when no one else had the idea to check. Anyway, I agree with you Anon, it was obvious that he wasn’t going to leave the 24th ward unattended…
especially when he said so himself in ch132. We just didn’t know who would go with him and who would stay.
Seeing the current members who are protecting the 24th ward though (Naki’s men, Miza’s, Yomo and Hinami in particular, Hirako and the kids) and how they’re leaving Touka with leading people away…
it seems Kaneki also made sure that the people he left behind would be there so that Touka wouldn’t have to fight for as long as she could avoid it.
Hello Anon! I’m definitely not good when it comes to defining the pacing in each chapter, but as I was saying above, it’s very likely that Touka will soon end up facing someone whom she won’t be able to escape from and I could see Ayato being the one to rescue her, in the theory that this next fight won’t turn in her advantage.
I mean, not only did Ayato say he was coming back…
but the real issue is not Touka’s lacking strength or being pregnant, but rather the fact that she’s eating human food and for a ghoul it’s like poison (remember how she couldn’t fight to her fullest against Tsukiyama at first because of Yoriko’s cooking back in TG?).
So, despite Touka being a very strong ghoul, her eating human food and wanting to protect her baby hints that she will probably face something/someone threatening it and, if Hinami isn’t enough, I could see Ayato showing up on time to save her in a few chapters.
Ayato or Kaneki. Or Irimi or Koma (since we don’t know where they are). I’m not seeing Touka losing her baby, because I’m too optimistic xD so I’m definitely counting on more people helping her if she ends up with having to fight.
I hope I answered your question!
Hello Anon and nope sorry, I didn’t see it. I’m not good when it comes to noticing tarot numbers in the first place, haha. Sorry but have a nice day. :3
midnight-in-town 