Hello Anon! If I understood, you mean to ask if the Amon/Kaneki dynamic has some parallels with the Guts/Griffith one?
Honestly… Well, I might be wrong or biased (so maybe @purgatoryandme will want to add to my answer since I believe you were referring to their post) but I don’t think that Guts and Amon are inherently similar when it comes to their characterization, despite all the other parallels that were pointed out in their respective stories (design, lost limbs, weapons, dad-related issues, behelits). I also don’t find any parallel nor resemblances between Kaneki’s character and Griffith’s, so I wouldn’t say that the Amon & Kaneki dynamic can be compared with the Guts & Griffith one. Then again, this is just my opinion.
I always found the Guts/Amon parallels easy to see since Amon’s design really is inspired from Guts’, however, parallels aside I don’t find their characters to be particularly similar, as I was saying. Sure, they have father-related issues and life wasn’t nice with either of them, but Guts’ characterization is a level higher than Amon’s (no offense to Ishida-sensei), making it hard to really find parallels within their respective characterizations, especially since their personal stories are completely different (probably because the world settings of TG and Berserk can’t be compared either).
So I guess, to answer your question, that it just depends on every reader’s interpretation: I once had a debate with someone on a forum who would preach for a thousand of parallels between Guts’ story and Kaneki’s, something I could never agree with so far so, while I don’t find any similarities between the two dynamics you asked about, someone else might disagree. 🙂
Honestly, the only character I could see having parallels with Griffith would be Takizawa, because of this scene…
and thanks to this post. But then again, it’s all very relative because, even if Takizawa once gave up and sacrificed everything to choose the path of destruction, he recently was offered the possibility to go on a redemption path (for Amon’s and Akira’s sake mainly) and he took it.
Meanwhile, I don’t think Griffith will ever stop being Femto and find a way to make it up to Guts and Casca for everything he did to them. There again, I could be wrong since the 5 Angels of the Godhand were once humans, but so far, that doesn’t seem to be a part of his plan.
Ahem, so anyway, I don’t think the dynamics can really be compared Anon, sorry :3 Someone else might propose a different opinion though!
Thanks for passing by and have a nice evening ^_^
I pondered the visual // recent plot parallels between Seidou and Griffith, as well 😀 However, their overall story arc is so different I figured they were just nods to Amon’s origin as a character. ((((I gotta admit, Griffith’s Femto form really reminds me of “Owl” Seidou, though. That and the complicated love triangle, though I doubt Akira would ever be taken down the Caska route…)))))
If there was a person meant to be obsessed with Amon, it would probably be Donato instead of Kaneki. Like Griffith, his obsession is based in a toxic love and is fuelled by Amon/Guts’ avoidance. The dynamic is totally different though, as Donato is a father figure instead of a friend/lover.
All in all, I agree with @midnight-in-town : I’m fairly certain Amon’s base design as a character is the only true Berserk reference in the manga and that Ishida is just giving it subtle nods from time to time.
@purgatoryandme thank you for your answer! 😀 (I also agree about Akira: despite the love triangle dynamic, she and Casca don’t have much in common and anyway the initial love triangle is done and over with when it comes to Berserk)
Hey Anon 🙂 Aaah, simply, I really enjoy Ishida’s writing and I absolutely love TG and its cast but… Miura-sensei and Berserk are of a different… quality.
That’s a bit harsh of me to compare them in the first place though, because everything from the world buildings to the basic plot are different from Berserk to TG so I’m always careful with the comparisons, especially since I really like both series a lot, so my comment in my initial answer was probably just because I think Berserk tends to be a level higher in general compared to TG.
I actually really like when people make accurate posts about all the actual parallels of Berserk that Sensei put in TG (especially recently), but I’m less fond of people writing very long posts about how Guts and Amon are mirroring each other in characterization and personal stories (when not for me) and same for Guts and Kaneki.
That being said, this difference of “level” in characterization that I was talking about between Amon and Guts might also be due to the fact that Guts is Berserk’s MC when Amon is not TG’s MC, and TG has bigger cast than Berserk. As such, it would be weird to expect for Amon to be as developed as Guts was throughout Berserk, when the plot and the characters just aren’t the same at all.
Like, I wouldn’t actually compare Kanou and Tsukiyama even though they’re both from TG, you get my point? xD
Anyway, Guts’ life was basically shit from day 0 of his life to currently, with maybe three years overall that were happier than the rest of his life (especially thanks to his relationship with Casca blossoming into something beautiful before he drowned in Hell), so everything he went through always shaped him like a knife that would cut through meat, so with basically as much delicacy as when Corkus used to hit on women. xD
Meanwhile Amon’s development mostly happened through TG (thanks to Mado’s death and meeting Kaneki) and we didn’t see a lot of him in :Re. He survived through his time in Aogiri ,thanks to the experience of his past with Donato and his development in TG resulting from meeting Kaneki, but since he’s not the MC, his development might more or less be almost over, which is not Guts’ case obviously.
TL;DR Amon is not TG’s MC, even if he’s an important character, while Guts is Berserk’s MC, so it’s kind of natural for Guts to have a more impressive characterization (in my opinion) than Amon.
It’s exactly the same reasoning than if I had compared Kaneki and, let’s say, Rickert or any of the Kushans from Berserk. Since Kaneki is TG’s MC, and even if his characterization is…. peculiar, his character tends to feel more fleshed out than Rickert’s and the Kushans’, even if Rickert and the Kushans both got developed a lot throughout Berserk.
Honestly, I just worded it strangely, please forgive me. 🙂 I hope my explanation makes sense though! Thanks for reading and for passing by Anon 🙂
Have a nice day!
Hahaha, no 🙂 I’m saying that it’s not very nice of me to compare Amon to Guts, since Berserk and TG are two completely different series + Amon is indeed not TG’s main character, so he can’t get as much focus for his development as Guts gets (especially since Berserk at some point focused solely on Guts for a rather long time).
A comparison of Kaneki’s and Guts’ characterization would logically make more sense (since they’re both the main characters of their respective stories), however, seeing as I don’t find there is a lot of parallels between Guts and Kaneki + since Kaneki’s own characterization is a bit peculiar (please read this post), it isn’t necessary to compare them either in my opinon. 🙂
TL;DR comparing Berserk and TG, outside of the obvious parallels that Ishida includes in TG, isn’t really worth the trouble and I find that it’s hard to compare Kaneki and Guts at all (even though they’re both main characters) because they don’t have a lot in common.
I hope it makes more sense that way xD
Sorry for the complicated explanation, it’s my fault not yours, and besides, your English is very good. 🙂
Ah there is a misunderstanding Anon 🙂 See, I don’t mind at all posts like this one, on the contrary, which is what I was saying above, because they are completely on point. This is why I even reblogged that post by @purgatoryandme in the first place, because it is 100% accurate.
All I was saying is that posts describing that Guts is mirroring Amon or Kaneki on aspects of characterization and character development (which are different from obvious parallels and similarities that Ishida added on purpose in the recent TG chapters) are posts I rarely ever agree with for reasons that I stated above.
There is a difference between design similarities and behelit references, which are the parallels that I’m 100% fond of whenever I find them in TG and when people make posts about them. However, a comparison of characterization (which is the way a character is written, if you prefer) between Guts and Amon, or Guts and Kaneki, or even Kaneki and Griffith, is something I find not to be particularly interesting, because I find that on these aspects Berserk and TG can’t be compared (again, for the reasons I explained above).
Feel free to disagree though. If you think Guts is mirroring Amon or Kaneki, and if you like posts comparing their respective stories and characterization, because you find they’re similar enough to make a comparison interesting (which is something I personally never agree on), it’s your right. 😉
I hope it makes sense explained that way. Have a nice evening!
Hey Anon, thanks for reading and I’m sorry that this post somehow became so long! xD My fault for not being so good with words tonight, haha.
Actually, I think there are comparisons and comparisons. A comparison can be used to show all the differences between two aspects too, it doesn’t always have to be about similarities. Nonetheless you’re right, I haven’t seen a lot of posts on Tumblr about comparison of characterizations between Berserk and TG, it was mostly on forums.
Sorry again for such a long post and if I may, you should definitely try reading Berserk if you aren’t triggered by violence! 😀
Thank you for passing by again Anon and have a nice week as well! :3
Hey Anon, thanks for reading! And yes, definitely, there isn’t just the main character status that factors in why I don’t find comparisons of Guts’ characterization and Amon’s to be very useful, but that was the simplest way to explain it. 🙂
Basically Miura-sensei’s writing (both for the world settings, the plot and cast) and Ishida-sensei’s are just too different in general to be compared, aspect by aspect. As I said though, I definitely like whenever Ishida hints at Amon being inspired from Guts or simply hinting at Berserk in general. 🙂
And when I talked about Amon’s development, I meant that most of his development already happened in TG thanks to Kaneki. Becoming a OEG (a rather traumatizing experience, especially at the hands of Aogiri) didn’t shatter his view about the world more than Kaneki had already done.
He managed not to give up and realized fully just how unfair the world is, so while he might still develop, the largest part of his character development happened in TG for me. Obviously you’re right though, he still needs to confront Donato (amongst other things), which means that his character development is not completely over yet. 🙂
Anyway, thanks for reading. 🙂 I surely didn’t expect for this post to turn into such a debate, haha!
Please have a nice day Anon (and I hope you read Berserk one day, as it is really good :)) !
Hello Anon! If I understood, you mean to ask if the Amon/Kaneki dynamic has some parallels with the Guts/Griffith one?
Honestly… Well, I might be wrong or biased (so maybe @purgatoryandme will want to add to my answer since I believe you were referring to their post) but I don’t think that Guts and Amon are inherently similar when it comes to their characterization, despite all the other parallels that were pointed out in their respective stories (design, lost limbs, weapons, dad-related issues, behelits). I also don’t find any parallel nor resemblances between Kaneki’s character and Griffith’s, so I wouldn’t say that the Amon & Kaneki dynamic can be compared with the Guts & Griffith one. Then again, this is just my opinion.
I always found the Guts/Amon parallels easy to see since Amon’s design really is inspired from Guts’, however, parallels aside I don’t find their characters to be particularly similar, as I was saying. Sure, they have father-related issues and life wasn’t nice with either of them, but Guts’ characterization is a level higher than Amon’s (no offense to Ishida-sensei), making it hard to really find parallels within their respective characterizations, especially since their personal stories are completely different (probably because the world settings of TG and Berserk can’t be compared either).
So I guess, to answer your question, that it just depends on every reader’s interpretation: I once had a debate with someone on a forum who would preach for a thousand of parallels between Guts’ story and Kaneki’s, something I could never agree with so far so, while I don’t find any similarities between the two dynamics you asked about, someone else might disagree. 🙂
Honestly, the only character I could see having parallels with Griffith would be Takizawa, because of this scene…
and thanks to this post. But then again, it’s all very relative because, even if Takizawa once gave up and sacrificed everything to choose the path of destruction, he recently was offered the possibility to go on a redemption path (for Amon’s and Akira’s sake mainly) and he took it.
Meanwhile, I don’t think Griffith will ever stop being Femto and find a way to make it up to Guts and Casca for everything he did to them. There again, I could be wrong since the 5 Angels of the Godhand were once humans, but so far, that doesn’t seem to be a part of his plan.
Ahem, so anyway, I don’t think the dynamics can really be compared Anon, sorry :3 Someone else might propose a different opinion though!
Since :Re began (and even earlier, really), it feels like Ishida is making intentional references to the manga “Berserk” within Amon’s story arc. The most obvious evidence of all actually begins with Seidou…
Now, this gross meat pile isn’t only a meat pile. It looks really similar to the Behelit from Berserk.
Though Ishida could’ve simply been going for a horror element here, the meat that Amon was originally given to eat had no faces. It was just a pile of human meat that was successfully presented as horrifying without further visual impact. Furthermore, the Crimson Behelit offers the chance for one of Berserk’s main characters to leave his humanity behind in exchange for his flesh, blood, and family…and Seidou changed after consuming the meat he was given (implied to be the meat of his family members). The Behelit is active when its eyes are open, too, so it seems like this reference was probably intentional.
Of course, just one reference isn’t enough to build a theory off of. Fortunately, there are more! The gross meat pile makes its return in the latest chapter…
Though it no longer has the characteristic egg-shape. It is however, something that haunts Amon. It also looks like something that haunts Guts, a character with a lot of eery similarities to Amon.
The disgusting demon baby that follows Guts and Caska around is representative of his trauma, his guilt, and his fears. It isn’t harmful by itself and, at times, is actually helpful. This is well in-line with what human meat represents to Amon.
The demon baby is eventually consumed by a Behelit and is used to “change the world”, as per the wish of an (explicitly reference to be) empty man. Considering the context this image was brought up in, and keeping in mind Amon’s desire to change the world, it seems that this reference is intentional.
Still, more evidence is required before people can really start drawing parallels between Guts’ arc in Berserk and Amon’s in Tokyo Ghoul. Luckily for me, people have been speculating about their similarities for quite some time and so panels are easy to find.
1. Both characters wield a frankly ridiculously huge weapon that they inherited from a friend. The weapon requires a massive amount of strength to use and is unique to them.
2. They both lost an arm.
3. The Arata armour looks almost exactly like Guts’ armour. Both sets of armour are taxing for their user to operate, but were necessary to fight enemies much stronger than themselves.
4. They both wind up having the aesthetic of a “Dark Knight”. As a “knight”, they wind up saving young girls who later return the favour and help bring them down from a monstrous take-over by their armour without killing them.
(Amon rescues Saiko in full armour, ffs)
5. Suffered a massive betrayal at the hands of a father figure. Killed many people for said father-figure (as children!!!!) and developed an obsession with perpetuating this cycle. Also: both orphans.
6. A cross to bear ie. Amon’s cross and Guts’ mark (both on their necks, both meant to never let them escape from their past, both with massive religious connotations)
7. Their whole look. The entire thing. Half-ghoul Amon looks so much like Guts.
There’s also the “near constant state of hatred towards a world they perceive as wrong” thing and the “fail to learn from their mistakes” thing and the “is basically no longer human” thing alongside the “awkward beautiful man who doesn’t know how to deal with women” thing.
TLDR: Guts and Amon share a lot of characteristics and this latest chapter brought it up again so I couldn’t help but make a compilation post.
Aaaaaah, well, it is definitely true that there is a lot of comparisons to make between Amon and Guts, way more than between Amon and any other characters from TG actually xD, as @purgatoryandme showed in their very good post.
Personally I like these comparisons, they make me smile seeing since I absolutely love Berserk, but I can’t say I really know why Ishida chose to include them, even if I think it might be some kind of homage yes.
The thing is, I might be wrong, but I believe Berserk always was a big phenomenon in Japan ever since the 90s (understandably enough since it’s a really extraordinary series), so I wouldn’t be surprised if Ishida-sensei grew up reading Berserk (and is still reading it nowadays), which is how he got inspired by Guts’ character when he imagined Amon.
After that, drawing obvious comparisons might have been Ishida’s way of telling his readers that Berserk and Miura-sensei inspired him and that everyone should check Berserk out, or simply he wanted to thank Miura-sensei by making these comparisons a hommage as you said.
This is just my personal opinion here, but actually an author saying he got inspired by [character] from [series] is the best way for the fans to check out the aformentioned series.
That’s exactly how it went down for me and Berserk actually: I had been recommended Berserk by a very close friend IRL more than once but what I saw of it on Google didn’t appeal to me (’it’s just violence’ I thought).ThenI read an interview of Isayama-sensei (the author of SnK/AOT) which said that Isayama got inspired by Casca from Berserk when he created Mikasa’s character, which is how I researched about Berserk once more, giving it a try not so long after and loving it.
So, no matter the reason, I’m really glad to see these allusions to Berserk in TG (through Amon mainly) if that can get more people to experience just how amazing Berserk is. 🙂
Hey Anon 🙂 And wow, how am I supposed not to ramble when I receive such a question? xD Nah but seriously, your question reminds me that I actually intended on writing a post about ch348 but that I got super busy and literally forgot, so it’s a great question. 🙂
First of all, yes, I think that Casca will definitely regain her mind one way or another while they’re at Skellig Island. It’s something I currently don’t have so many doubts about, for reasons I once explained here. My thoughts can still change of course, but for now I am not fearing this possibility. 😀
However I definitely agree about plot twist(s): I agreed before ch348 and I agree even more after reading ch348 because…
…we got the confirmation that whatever Schierke and Farnese do in Casca’s dream will affect real!Casca. Obviously, it was to be expected since Schierke and Farnese are supposed to cure Casca through understanding her dream, but positive changes definitely aren’t the only possibility.
So, since we readers know exactly what put Casca in such a traumatized state, I think we can expect that Schierke and Farnese’s journey through Casca’s dream certainly won’t be an easy and eventless one. Besides, eventless wouldn’t suit a story like Berserk so, while I can’t say how many chapters will be dedicated to Casca’s dream, I am expecting feels, pain and worry with probably at some point the dreadful feeling that Casca’s recovery/Casca’s safety back in the real world will be at risk (especially since… Griffith/Femto has been shown to invade other people’s dreams before -> the Pope, the citizens of Midland…).
The other… kind of plot twist that I am sometimes expecting is post-recovery, since, even if she manages to be healed, Casca will still need to learn how to cope with everything that happened to her ever since the Eclipse, which is to say:
what Griffith did to her personally
the loss of men and friends that were under her command (Judeau, Pippin ;_;)
what happened to her and Guts’ child after the Eclipse
….and what almost happened with Guts in vol23
So, because of Casca’s need to cope, I can’t really decide how the reunion between healed!Casca and Guts will go.
We all know that Guts is this one main character that life (aka the author) likes to constantly fuck over and many fans are overjoyed at the prospect of Guts and Casca being happy together again, so for now I can’t decide if the reunion will brought tears of joy or of pain to the readers. I made a post on the subject before, to list a few possibilities, if you’re interested.
Finally, back to plot twists during the dream journey, this is just my personal wish, but I would love it if, should Farnese Schierke and Casca be at risk because things took an unexpected turn (as I think it could happen), Puck or the moonlight child (or demon infant?) were to help.
Oh of course, I know that the Queen is very strong, but somehow I felt that Puck being sent to “prison” was a bit strange considering that he always was important and that he had a glimpse into what actually happened to Casca before thanks to Guts. As for the moonlight child, it’s simply because he might be related to the demon infant and that, since he saved Guts a few times before, he might do something for Casca as well. Besides, if he actually is related to the demon infant, then I think he’ll have a role to play in Casca’s recovery/post recovery as she always looked to be more alert whenever she had to take care of him, which means to me that she might have been more conscious of things thanks to him.
TL;DR plot twist(s) probably and recovery very probably as well. 🙂
I hope it answers your question, sorry that it was so long!
I spent some time on a painting after reading the new Berserk chapter. Such beautiful imagery throughout, I had to do something with it. I think I’ll keep at this one.
Hey Anon 🙂 Ah, no, I think that was made rather clear and I’m pretty sure that he didn’t lie when he said that:
It’s in vol 22, you can reread it if you want, because Guts even gets mad asking if he really doesn’t feel anything after everything he did and Griffith simply answers that he won’t betray his dream (which is probably the reason he was the one sent back to be reborn and gained a corporeal body, as well as the reason he was “chosen” by the Idea of Evil in the first place).
Anyway, I think I see why some fans might disagree with this though, but in my opinion that’s plain misreading.
See, right after this scene, Zodd shows up and starts fighting Guts and we have a small focus on Griffith…
But there is no need to start theorizing because…
Of course “maybe Griffith lied” but that’s precisely why another important scene followed just after…
And the conclusion that Griffith himself reached was that…
…Which has to be pretty disturbing for him when you think about it, because that means the demon infant he was fused with managed to make him move with his feelings in order to go save Casca.
So… basically “Griffith” is the result of a fusion between Femto and the demon infant whose corporeal body was used for the reincarnation, but that means that while Femto himself doesn’t have any feelings towards Guts and Casca, the demon baby within him still does and made Griffith act on them in vol22 because they were fused.
TL;DRboth for Guts and Casca, what Griffith felt in vol22 was the demon infant’s fear for his parents.
I have no idea if Griffith found a solution to this… problem (since it’s kinda hilarious for Griffith as Femto to be worried about the two friends he fucked over because of their baby that he also cursed, but considering his gigantic ego issues… he probably wants this to be taken care of) but maybe the moonlight child is a part of the answer.
Anyway, I hope this answered your question 🙂 Have a nice day Anon!
Hey Anon, thanks for reading and sorry for the delayed answer, I needed to reread a few things! 🙂
Ahh, it’s one of my fav subjects in Berserk to be honest (considering Guts’ own issues about his one and only father figure, Gambino) but yeah, at first and considering Guts’ broken mental state before he met Puck, there is no denying that he definitely was harsh with his own child, because it was nothing more than yet another demon who could be after him because of the brand…
But the demon infant probably redeemed himself in Guts’ mind when his warning about Casca turned out to be true.
And from this moment on, even though they only briefly crossed path at the tower of conviction, I’d say Guts didn’t feel that the demon infant was a threat anymore, since the true warning proved that the little thing, even as a demon, wasn’t trying to harm him or Casca.
When it comes to feeling sorry about it now that Guts is doing way better thanks to his new travelling companions though… Well I’d say he very probably does to some extent…
…since he thought once more about the demon infant in vol28, wondering what the baby was up to (seeing as they haven’t seen each other since the tower of conviction).
Besides, in my opinion, since Guts was raised by a father figure he always looked up to and seeked praise and love from, to the point that his death still haunted him even years after…
…Well, now that he’s emotionally more stable and that he knows the demon infant never wanted to harm either him or Casca, it’s very possible he has some regrets about behaving the way he did towards his child. At least that’s how I interpreted those two pages of vol 28.
I’m pretty sure it’s a subject Miura will address again in the story by the way, especially because, Guts’ own issues about it aside, it will probably be a big deal to Casca once she’s cured and also especially if the moonlight child is related in some way to the demon infant.
Besides, since Griffith used the demon infant to be reborn, I wouldn’t be surprised if knowing about this was enough to fuel Guts’ hatred towards Griffith one more time.
Now, assuming the moonlight child and the demon infant are related/the same character…
… since he was attracted by the brand/the brand reacted to him when he was born, I thought that, as clever and worried for his mama as he appeared to be, he wouldn’t want to have her in pain because of him one way or another (otherwise he wouldn’t have protected her that faithfully all this time).
There is also something that Griffith said on the matter back in vol3:
That’s just a possibility though, no real clue if it’s right or wrong (and if he’s indeed the moonlight child, now that the brand doesn’t react to him he’s making up for all the times he couldn’t get close to her :3).
Thanks again for reading Anon! Have a nice day/evening 🙂
midnight-in-town 