Hey Anon 🙂 Ah, no, I think that was made rather clear and I’m pretty sure that he didn’t lie when he said that:
It’s in vol 22, you can reread it if you want, because Guts even gets mad asking if he really doesn’t feel anything after everything he did and Griffith simply answers that he won’t betray his dream (which is probably the reason he was the one sent back to be reborn and gained a corporeal body, as well as the reason he was “chosen” by the Idea of Evil in the first place).
Anyway, I think I see why some fans might disagree with this though, but in my opinion that’s plain misreading.
See, right after this scene, Zodd shows up and starts fighting Guts and we have a small focus on Griffith…
But there is no need to start theorizing because…
Of course “maybe Griffith lied” but that’s precisely why another important scene followed just after…
And the conclusion that Griffith himself reached was that…
…Which has to be pretty disturbing for him when you think about it, because that means the demon infant he was fused with managed to make him move with his feelings in order to go save Casca.
So… basically “Griffith” is the result of a fusion between Femto and the demon infant whose corporeal body was used for the reincarnation, but that means that while Femto himself doesn’t have any feelings towards Guts and Casca, the demon baby within him still does and made Griffith act on them in vol22 because they were fused.
TL;DRboth for Guts and Casca, what Griffith felt in vol22 was the demon infant’s fear for his parents.
I have no idea if Griffith found a solution to this… problem (since it’s kinda hilarious for Griffith as Femto to be worried about the two friends he fucked over because of their baby that he also cursed, but considering his gigantic ego issues… he probably wants this to be taken care of) but maybe the moonlight child is a part of the answer.
Anyway, I hope this answered your question 🙂 Have a nice day Anon!
Did anyone notice that to protect his mama in the Tower of conviction arc, he…
did an equivalent of…
what Griffith did several times…
after being reborn? Except that Griffith was showing the souls to the family of the deceased when the baby simply exorcized the things that were after his mom, or so it looks like?
And since that baby and Femto fused to allow Griffith to be reborn, I wonder if it couldn’t be the baby’s power and, because they fused, Griffith can used that power? Or Griffith just has all the possible powers that exist because he’s one of the Godhand and Baby Gutsca just happened to get this power in particular as a demon? Or all demons can somehow exorcize each other and it’s all inherent to who’s the strongest demon?
Also let’s say the demon infant is somehow the moonlight child (I know, it’s just a theory), could it be that the last we saw of him…
has something to do with what Griffith does when he shows the souls of the departed to their families?
Except that in the moonlight child’s case (considering the theory he’s the demon infant), the fact he’s a part of Griffith + that it happens on the night of the full moon (when magic is at its strongest) allows him a corporeal body for a short time?
But at the same time that wouldn’t explain Zodd possibly watching over him from afar, since all of this would mean the moonlight child would disappear after the full moon anyway, even if he didn’t leave on his own…
The thing is, I’m not ready to believe yet that Griffith is somehow disappearing every full moon to allow the Moonlight Child some freedom and time with this parents (that doesn’t sound like him at all, especially considering what he did to said parents), so there must be an explanation as to how the moonlight child manages to appear at every full moon with what seems to be a corporeal body.
I wonder, does Griffith even know about that? If Zodd really is watching over the Moonlight Child (at least the first time this happened), then there is a good possibility he knows (assuming Griffith doesn’t disappear because the Moonlight Child is allowed to exist for one night), though Zodd is different from the other Apostles, so… who knows really.
Any thoughts?
Reblogging this post ‘cause I reread vol 38 again (just when Rickert leaves with the Kushans) and…
…the moon is full but Griffith is there.
So if my boy here…
…really is linked to Griffith, there is a high chance that him appearing during the full moon isn’t equal to Griffith disappearing for a night (see the full discussion).
Obviously that doesn’t help with whether Griffith knows about this or not or why Zodd was apparently spying on Guts’ group and the child during vol 28, but at least it looks like this boy and Griffith are more or less independent entities the nights magic is at its strongest.
As always, feel free to leave your thoughts if you want!
Some
people have speculated that as Femto is still ‘incomplete’ as a God
Hand (i.e. the sacrifices Casca and Guts are still alive) and share the
connection to Guts through wearing the body of the Demon Child like a
suit that this would mean that he would align with Guts.
I find
this to be implausible and, if Guts finds out what Femto has done to the
body of his child, this would just make him angrier as this would be
one more thing that Femto has ruined for the sake of his ambitions.
Also,
it may be worth noting that the other members of the God Hand represent
different aspects of the consciousness according to Freudian
psychoanalytical theory: Slan= Eros, Conrad=Thanatos, Void=Ego,
Ubik=Id.
So you could really say they are but functions in the
mind of the Idea of Evil- not necessarily evil in themselves in the
conventional sense but at the same time contributing to it.
So
this could mean that if anything Femto is more dangerous as he
represents a complete person or at least the Idea of Evil’s perception
of a complete person despite his ‘incomplete’ status.
In my mind,
I see the reverse, Guts and at least one of the God Hand (either Slan
or Void) working together (the latter fearing that this would be a
threat to their own state of dominion) to weaken Femto so that the Demon
Child’s mind can assert itself.
This coupled with the successful
sacrifice of Guts and Casca would create a ‘complete’ being with Femto’s
power yet which represents an ultimate equilibrium of these aspects.
Think Nietzsch’s ubermensch and you are there.
Whether
this being would just be another tool of the Idea of Evil or whether
the Idea of Evil would want to use this being to bring about what it
sees as the perfect world either through using the being to destroy
itself and and let the being take its place as the master of fate or
some other method such as to seed it in the minds of all of humanity.
With
this in mind, Femto’s ‘defeat’ does not necessarily have to end with
him being physically slain but diminished and discriminate on a spiritual
and psychological level.
A stage the Idea of Evil may have already planned and accounted for.
Is Femto the Berserk answer to Metatron from Hebrew mythology? In
mythology, Metatron was originally a human called Enoch who was tasked
by Yahweh prepared three hundred and sixty-six books. When he learned
everything, Yahweh revealed to him great secrets – some of which are
even kept secret from the angels.
In the Babylonian
Talmud, Metatron has such immense power that he is confused with God
with some sources of literature even referring to him as a “lesser
Yahweh”.
In which case the Skull Knight would be his ‘diabolic’
counterpart Adralmelech, a being worshiped as a sun god and fueled by
offerings with behelets in the place of children (the behelets being the
spiritual ‘offspring’ of the God Hand) .
What is interesting is the below quote regarding Adralmelech by Robert Silverberg.
“The enemy of God, greater in ambition, guile and mischief than Satan. A fiend more curst — a deeper hypocrite”
In
the context of Berserk, this not only would hint at the Skull Knight’s
relationship with the God Hand but also his past and his ambitions- does
he hate the God Hand because of the threat they pose or a prior
relationship or because a desire to take their place or replace the Idea
of Evil itself?
That and the Hebrew suffix “melech” literally translates as “King”.
I was thinking about this lately and while I don’t think there is a lot of doubts when it comes to whether or not Casca will regain her mind now, I really am unsure about the possibility of a happy Gutsca reunion once Casca will be “back”.
First of all, Casca getting her mind back certainly won’t mean she’ll be automatically okay with everything that happened (on the contrary, she’ll certainly need to cope with what she’ll remember in order to really get better), but in any case, the simple fact that Casca will be back again is such good news in itself that Miura-sensei could decide that it’s all his fans will get (this is Berserk we’re talking about after all, happiness never lasts for Guts ;_;).
Second thing, the main reason making me doubt a happy Casca/Guts reunion is this…
Since that’s exactly what happened, he let go of his obsession for revenge because making sure Casca was safe (back in vol22) was the most important to him and it reached such an extent that…
… he even let Zodd go because getting on a ship to bring Casca to Skellig Island was more important.
Everything has been about protecting and curing Casca ever since Griffith’s rebirth so, let’s say Casca gets her mind back, if she and Guts also get happily reunited then why should Guts even decide to go after Griffith?
He’s changed a lot and he definitely knows that the world is going down the wrong path with Griffith as literally “humanity’s savior”, but then again, he’s always fought his own battles and life was so mean to him that fighting Griffith, not on his own terms or for his own revenge but for humanity’s survival, doesn’t sound like something Guts would do, especially if Casca is finally back and happy by his sides.
So, ahem, while it pains me since I absolutely adore Guts and Casca together, I am not so sure about a happy reunion at the end of the current arc… Or we might get a happy reunion but it won’t last because, all in all, Guts is the struggler and to keep struggling against Griffith’s and the fate he wants to impose over humanity, he needs to have a personal motivation to go against Griffith.
I don’t think I also need to mention what happened during vol23 when Guts almost raped Casca, lost as he was back then, which is something they obviously need to talk about in order for both of them to heal (because the beast of darkness is still there, in Guts’ mind, so it could be an obstacle to the happy Gutsca reunion), but there is also what the Skull Knight said…
…And since he’s right most of the time, I don’t see why this time it would be different when it comes to Casca’s own perspective about what she’s been through or what Griffith is up to.
Personally, I think the SK’s words might have to do with Guts and Casca’s son (as I once explained here)…
…because I don’t think that Casca is ready to just accept Griffith’s death if that means losing her son at the same time (her son who might have been the most conscious thing she could understand and recognize in her life ever since the eclipse).
So, when it comes to a happy Guts/Casca reunion, the chances of it happening and lasting are, in my opinion, directly correlated to if somehow Guts can still have a big motivation to fight Griffith
(as in, facing Griffith would mean that it’s personal and not just because the world is going astray), while being happy with Casca by his side.
At the same time, one possibility is that Guts’ big motivation to fight Griffith could be the same as Casca’s and linked to their son (I mean their child, either as the demon infant or even if he’s the Moonlight child, saved them more than once and Guts can realize that easily), and in that case, we could still have Guts
with Casca by his side and motivated enough to go against Griffith, because next he’s going to make Griffith pay for what happened to his and Casca’s child.
That’s either all or nothing anyway, as always with Berserk, but I guess we will have to maybe know about who/what the Moonlight child is first, in case Guts and Casca are to really fight Griffith over their child.
it won’t be a pleasant reunion, that much is guaranteed. the only thing that remains to be seen is how long and to what extent.
in any case, guts might not pursue griffith for purely ethical reasons, but casca–being the most moral of the three of them–might. as in, she might become griffith’s leadership foil as the commander of an army that opposes him. would certainly be a fitting character arc. regardless i’m willing to bet she’s going to be the one to drive the plot forward now. i mean, she better, after 20 years decommissioned.
Thanks for your input! And I definitely agree about Casca still having a big role to play and becoming the leader of an army that would oppose Griffith’s, thanks to possible foreshadowing by both Judeau during the eclipse but also Rickert in vol 38.
The thing is, Casca possibly becoming an army leader is the main reason I am considering that she and Guts might not go their separate way after she’s back (unless Guts willingly separates himself from the rest of the crew), which is partly why I think a happy reunion will probably not take place immediately, seeing as they’ve got important things to discuss and deal with.
But at the same time Casca becoming an army leader only to get revenge for herself or her previous comrades isn’t something I see her do, just like I just don’t see Guts following her around without a personal goal in mind, so then again, while I agree that Casca might (and should!) become a driving force, there is probably something else to consider, which is why I mentioned their son, since he’s a direct plot point leading to Griffith.
yeah. my theory is that if she DID end up raising an army, guts and casca might reconcile through the fact that guts would willingly and gladly follow her as her “sword.” i don’t think she would oppose griffith out of vengeance, but because it’s right. that being said, this hinges on the idea that she will want to pursue griffith in any capacity, which may not be the case outside her wanting to retrieve her child. but the plot’s got to resolve itself somehow.
Same, I think they might need time since both of them have to deal not only with what they’ve been through on their own but also together, and Casca as a leader again fits both with her character and with the way the plot is going in my opinion too. 🙂
About Casca fighting Griffith though, I didn’t mean it as “revenge” (just as her trying to save her son) but I don’t see her only fighting him because it’s right either. I mean, just like Guts, Casca would need a good motivation to do anything against Griffith when she might be beyond scared of him now, and so that’s why her son might do the trick, because he was the most important thing and probably the only reason sometimes she would be more conscious of her surroundings during the last 3-4 years.
She went through more than anyone else in the whole story (besides Guts) because of Griffith after all, so acting as the world savior because it’s right wouldn’t suit her imo, not after everything that happened.
I was thinking about this lately and while I don’t think there is a lot of doubts when it comes to whether or not Casca will regain her mind now, I really am unsure about the possibility of a happy Gutsca reunion once Casca will be “back”.
First of all, Casca getting her mind back certainly won’t mean she’ll be automatically okay with everything that happened (on the contrary, she’ll certainly need to cope with what she’ll remember in order to really get better), but in any case, the simple fact that Casca will be back again is such good news in itself that Miura-sensei could decide that it’s all his fans will get (this is Berserk we’re talking about after all, happiness never lasts for Guts ;_;).
Second thing, the main reason making me doubt a happy Casca/Guts reunion is this…
Since that’s exactly what happened, he let go of his obsession for revenge because making sure Casca was safe (back in vol22) was the most important to him and it reached such an extent that…
… he even let Zodd go because getting on a ship to bring Casca to Skellig Island was more important.
Everything has been about protecting and curing Casca ever since Griffith’s rebirth so, let’s say Casca gets her mind back, if she and Guts also get happily reunited then why should Guts even decide to go after Griffith?
He’s changed a lot and he definitely knows that the world is going down the wrong path with Griffith as literally “humanity’s savior”, but then again, he’s always fought his own battles and life was so mean to him that fighting Griffith, not on his own terms or for his own revenge but for humanity’s survival, doesn’t sound like something Guts would do, especially if Casca is finally back and happy by his sides.
So, ahem, while it pains me since I absolutely adore Guts and Casca together, I am not so sure about a happy reunion at the end of the current arc… Or we might get a happy reunion but it won’t last because, all in all, Guts is the struggler and to keep struggling against Griffith’s and the fate he wants to impose over humanity, he needs to have a personal motivation to go against Griffith.
I don’t think I also need to mention what happened during vol23 when Guts almost raped Casca, lost as he was back then, which is something they obviously need to talk about in order for both of them to heal (because the beast of darkness is still there, in Guts’ mind, so it could be an obstacle to the happy Gutsca reunion), but there is also what the Skull Knight said…
…And since he’s right most of the time, I don’t see why this time it would be different when it comes to Casca’s own perspective about what she’s been through or what Griffith is up to.
Personally, I think the SK’s words might have to do with Guts and Casca’s son (as I once explained here)…
…because I don’t think that Casca is ready to just accept Griffith’s death if that means losing her son at the same time (her son who might have been the most conscious thing she could understand and recognize in her life ever since the eclipse).
So, when it comes to a happy Guts/Casca reunion, the chances of it happening and lasting are, in my opinion, directly correlated to if somehow Guts can still have a big motivation to fight Griffith
(as in, facing Griffith would mean that it’s personal and not just because the world is going astray), while being happy with Casca by his side.
At the same time, one possibility is that Guts’ big motivation to fight Griffith could be the same as Casca’s and linked to their son (I mean their child, either as the demon infant or even if he’s the Moonlight child, saved them more than once and Guts can realize that easily), and in that case, we could still have Guts
with Casca by his side and motivated enough to go against Griffith, because next he’s going to make Griffith pay for what happened to his and Casca’s child.
That’s either all or nothing anyway, as always with Berserk, but I guess we will have to maybe know about who/what the Moonlight child is first, in case Guts and Casca are to really fight Griffith over their child.
Just some ideas, feel free to leave yours 🙂
I think this was the moment when I, as a fan, just absolutely fell in love with Casca, because she takes – literally! – the shirt off her back to help Guts out. And it’s not that she’s even particularly attracted to him yet at this point in the story (or at least, she never admitted to herself or anyone else), but she would do that for anyone. Any one of the Hawks – if she sees somebody hurting, she helps them; no matter what it costs to her personally. And you can just see in Guts’ face when she does that, that he’s just seeing her for the first time.
[…] So even though it’s not explicitly romantic, it’s got that undertone there. And you also see it as a contrast, because you’ve got here the two pairings – Griffith and Charlotte, and Guts and Casca. And you see that Griffith is talking about friendship and how he values people who are equal to him, which Charlotte just is not. At all. But he values her for what she can give to him, whereas Guts values Casca because of who she is. She doesn’t have much – a scrap of cloth – but what she does have, she gives freely, and that’s the sort of person she is.
Did anyone notice that to protect his mama in the Tower of conviction arc, he…
did an equivalent of…
what Griffith did several times…
after being reborn? Except that Griffith was showing the souls to the family of the deceased when the baby simply exorcized the things that were after his mom, or so it looks like?
And since that baby and Femto fused to allow Griffith to be reborn, I wonder if it couldn’t be the baby’s power and, because they fused, Griffith can used that power? Or Griffith just has all the possible powers that exist because he’s one of the Godhand and Baby Gutsca just happened to get this power in particular as a demon? Or all demons can somehow exorcize each other and it’s all inherent to who’s the strongest demon?
Also let’s say the demon infant is somehow the moonlight child (I know, it’s just a theory), could it be that the last we saw of him…
has something to do with what Griffith does when he shows the souls of the departed to their families?
Except that in the moonlight child’s case (considering the theory he’s the demon infant), the fact he’s a part of Griffith + that it happens on the night of the full moon (when magic is at its strongest) allows him a corporeal body for a short time?
But at the same time that wouldn’t explain Zodd possibly watching over him from afar, since all of this would mean the moonlight child would disappear after the full moon anyway, even if he didn’t leave on his own…
The thing is, I’m not ready to believe yet that Griffith is somehow disappearing every full moon to allow the Moonlight Child some freedom and time with this parents (that doesn’t sound like him at all, especially considering what he did to said parents), so there must be an explanation as to how the moonlight child manages to appear at every full moon with what seems to be a corporeal body.
I wonder, does Griffith even know about that? If Zodd really is watching over the Moonlight Child (at least the first time this happened), then there is a good possibility he knows (assuming Griffith doesn’t disappear because the Moonlight Child is allowed to exist for one night), though Zodd is different from the other Apostles, so… who knows really.
Any thoughts?
I believe that the moon child was confirmed in the recent chapters to be an embassy of the fairy King. BUT I feel like the resemblance to guts and casca, as well as the purposeful posing of them as a family, is hinting that there is more to the moon child’s story. The imagery seems too strong to just be a cop out.
I know it’s been the topic of a big debate 🙂 but if you’re referring to what Schierke said in vol 37
I personally never bought it for several reasons:
The boy is helpful but Schierke doesn’t know -> except for that time on the Island when Guts asked out loud if the boy was responsible for stopping him, the two other times he helped (against the crocodile and on the ship) are something the whole group is unaware of. So all that Schierke knows is that they have a kid with a weird OD with them sometimes who somehow witnesses how things go.
Schierke also doesn’t know that Guts and Casca have a child that was used by Griffith to be reborn so it’s not like she could make a possible link between the demon infant and him (and she wouldn’t know about what the SK said about demon children still yearning for their parents). That’s why she gives the theory of him being an emissary of Danan, she does with what she knows.
You mentioned the strong resemblance and I agree, but then again Schierke doesn’t know that Guts and Casca have a child. I doubt anyone knows btw, besides the Skull Knight that is (I guess maybe Puck could have seen it in Guts’ head, but I’m not even sure of that)…
on top of all this, there is the attachment between him and Casca (and Casca always could feel when the demon infant was around, just like she always wanted to take care of him).
Finally, when it comes to the most recent chapters, I personally believe that the moonlight child being linked to the Sovereign of the flower storm was something that got denied fair and square by Gedfryn…
Because Danan didn’t need any emissary seeing as they had Puck with them.
So don’t worry I say all that but I know it’s always been a big debate and that Miura’s answer on this will be what will solve this 🙂 but personally I am 100% behind the demon infant = moonlight child (see here for other another reason if you want).
The only thing I’m ??? about
(as I said above)
is if the moonlight child is just the demon infant who somehow manages to get one night of freedom per month, or if there is a bit of Griffith mixed with him. We know he doesn’t have anything to do with Femto otherwise the brand would react, but considering this…
It could remind of Griffith somehow.
So if the moonlight child = the demon infant, I just have no idea how his fusion with Femto is working. Maybe he can use more power than he could as the demon infant because he’s a part of the new Griffith (like borrowing some of Femto’s huge power?), but I just have no idea what Griffith knows/doesn’t know/is aware of/not aware of when it comes to what’s going on every full moon.
Sorry for this long post, I just am hoping that we will get more explanations about this specific topic either in Casca’s dream directly or slightly after. I hope it makes sense, thanks for your thoughts in the first place!
Yeah I think along the same lines. Griffith fusing with the gutsca baby affected him and on the full moon when the baby’s powers are stronger he goes to help his parents out.
Another theory is that Griffith knows that the child affected him and and use the nights of the full moon to give in to the child’s desire to be with his parents.
I agree about the child possibly using Femto’s powers and that the full moon is 100% the reason he can show up in front of his parents but when it comes to Griffith allowing him to do that… If that’s the case then that means the child has to do something in exchange, because as Femto there is no way he would allow the child to meet with his parents without anything in return.
It’s like when he shows the family of the departed those who died while fighting, it’s to manipulate them and that’s basically why no one besides Rickert called bullshit on him yet, both when it comes to being a king and to the demons he has under his control.
So yeah, maybe he’s aware of the moonlight child going to his parents every full moon and he allowed it in exchange for… maybe a promise the child won’t interfere next time Guts and Casca meet Griffith (like he did in vol22 when he used/”forced” Griffith to save his mom)? But at the same time, the more the child frequents his parents, the less he’ll want for Griffith to kill them logically?
Unless it’s like “you know I can’t be defeated so enjoy your parents while they’re still alive” and in that case it would make sense to have Zodd watching over and the child leaving willingly at the end of the night. Maybe Zodd is even the one who suggested the idea after the events of vol22, so Griffith would keep the demon child quiet inside of him.
Yeah, it’s possible as long as Griffith gets something from the child in return for allowing him one night with his parents, but I really feel for that kid because he’s probably the one that knows best just how powerful Femto is…
Have y’all seen the new berserk anime? It shows the monster infant alittle.
Sorry but the manga is the original work and the anime is just focusing on the Tower of conviction arc on top of being badly done, so I don’t think it’s of any help here.
midnight-in-town 