how come a ghouls as powerful as Noro didn’t have any?
@kingkishou OKAY SO I just remembered that Noro wasn’t the only one who showed no eye pattern:
remember Uta (always hinted to be a strong ghoul or OEG) and as if his kagune/kakuja was made of empty eye sockets, back in ch110?
So in Noro’s case, I’m pretty sure it’s not random either, especially since Furuta said in ch121…
Initially I was thinking that maybe Noro was Eto’s foster parent whom she mentioned in ch66 and that maybe she kept him “alive” after he was killed (by injecting her kagune into him? I mean, she did leave a “gift” to Kaneki and Banjou used his kagune for the first time after she stabbed him too) and that was why Noro was so monstrous despite not showing any eye pattern of Rc cells clustering?
Now though I wonder…
if there isn’t some link to the Nagaraj.
I mean, fom the way I understand it, I think no eye pattern possibly means…
…no Rc cells clustering and/or no kakuhou and it’s true that it wasn’t really Uta in ch110, since it was a clone he made from one of his piercings…
…so maybe that could explain the empty eye sockets pattern, if the clone thingy had no kakuhou in the first place.
Thus maybe it was the same for Noro, if somehow he was just a shell or even a clone of who he used to be…
that could explain the emphasis on a big mouth rather than on an eye pattern, just like Uta’s clone…
or even Kaneki’s, more recently.
(this one kinda looks like Noro in his final battle, just saying…)
Besides, Noro never seemed to particularly react to anyone stabbing him or cutting him in two (Aogiri arc), pretty much like Uta’s clones (”Arima” & “Sasaki”) who just kept up the sarcasm, so maybe the Noro we knew was just some kind of empty shell or clone from the beginning and the skull we saw in ch55 was just the proof that V really killed him many years ago?
TL;DR
eyeball pattern = Rc cells clustering and Rc cells cluster more densely around the kakuhou, according to Kimi => Dragoneki
big mouth pattern = Uta’s clone when he faced Juuzou & co, Kaneki’s current humanoid clones => so Noro = clone of Eto’s foster parent?
Kaneki, Hide and Uta in the sewers by @kingkishou [x][x]
honestly i love all these theories
Insane theory 2.0: what if Kaneki isn’t the one who hurt Hide’s mouth/throat to the point he could hardly talk without an equipment, because
either he only met Uta (or one of his kakuja clones, but same deal) in the sewers,
or there were two Hides, but Kaneki only ate the one who was actually Uta?
Meeting Uta in the sewers would explain the possible weird thing going on with Kaneki’s right eye during V14 (please see @kingkishou‘s theory I linked to above) + why Uta had Kaneki’s mask in :Re, despite Kaneki throwing it away in the sewers (even if, of course, Uta could have also simply done another similar mask between TG and :Re since he’s the one who crafted that mask anyway).
And in that case, instead of Kaneki, maybe the one who did something to Hide’s mouth/throat, way after V14 (which is to say between TG and :Re) is…
…Eto? After all we know Eto and Hide possibly have/had a link ever since this scene:
and we still haven’t received an explanation for these stitches Eto did on people.
but the Hide Kaneki saw and the Hide he ate (which is the part we have yet to see) were two different persons. Or he saw and ate the same Hide but it was actually Uta all along.
What I find interesting in this theory, besides more answers about some stuff Eto did, is that we know Kaneki is going to blame himself so much for what he did down in the sewers, so imagine if in fact he’s not responsible at all for this. xD Mind blowing for poor Kaneki really.
(also “Hide” not being Hide in the sewers but Uta would explain how “Hide” managed to escape after Kaneki started eating him)
I’m bringing back this crack theory of “Eto is the one who did this to Hide” (thanks @kingkishou for reminding me), because, look,
narratively speaking I wonder if it wouldn’t be a huge step forward for Kaneki to try and take responsibility for “killing his best friend” too (since he still thinks that’s what happened) only to realize that is at least one thing that he didn’t do.
The risk Kaneki is facing after this new development (now that he admitted that he’s happy because some people love him for what he is) is to start considering that everything bad that happened is his fault and that he should bear the burden of all the guilt by himself, because he decided he’d take responsibility.
However, in that case, finding out that he’s not the one who did that to Hide might end up breaking that mentality and make him realize that he’s not the worst person ever. Just some thoughts.
Again, here are the reasons I like the “Hide was maimed by Eto” theory:
how was a supposedly normal human like Hide able to stop Kaneki from completely eating him once he had started?
how did a supposedly normal human like Hide manage to escape the sewers severely injured, after Kaneki ate a part of his face/throat?“
the eye thing in V14 (see above)
Uta having Kaneki’s mask in :Re when Kaneki threw it away in the sewers
=> for all these points “Hide” actually being Uta solves it all.
what about Eto stitching people, that was never addressed?
I know it’s a crack theory but it would tie Hide to both Eto and the Clowns, which would make sense since there is definitely some truth he’s hiding! So I like it a lot and if it can help with Kaneki’s on-going development, it’s even better. ^_^
Starting by the easiest, yes, obviously she does (just like him) and there are so many hints that I don’t think it’s very necessary for me to expand on this. xD
It’s something they just haven’t told to each other out loud yet, but I think it might happen when the Dragoneki crisis finally is solved (or in order to solve it, we’ll know soon enough). :))
By the way, she has yet to call him Ken too, even though they’re married, but it’s a romantic development that will happen as well at some point!
Hinami
Not in my opinion! I think Hina loves both Touka and Kaneki immensely, but just not in a romantic way, and the whole point of ch142 was to focus on her being mistaken when thinking that she was not good enough to be by their side.
She felt responsible for triggering what she thinks was Kaneki changing when the case with her mother happened & she felt “jealous” of Touka (careful tho, the word used in Japanese has a positive connotation as explained here), because she was striving to become as strong and reliable as she sees Touka to be.
However, as explained in this great meta by @ayahinas, ch142 was just yet another stone used to build up to more character development for Hina, which is something that I, too, understood as leading towards a likely romantic relationship with Ayato.
There was never any romantic longing for Kaneki in Hina’s character for me, rather he’s her family (her onii-chan). 🙂
Eto
Nope, at least for me! If Eto ever held romantic feelings for anyone, I suspect it was probably Arima (even though Tatara was also longing for her ;_;) but I’m not an expert on this specific subject. x)
In my opinion,
Eto was like yet another “mother figure” for Kaneki, which is a role she took upon herself too and which is why she said:
because with Arima, she ended “giving birth” to the next OEK. So, nope!
Rize
Um, actually, Rize (as in the real girl, not the personification of Kaneki’s mind) probably doesn’t even remember who Kaneki is (I mean he was just this meal that ended up destroying her whole life),
so not at all.
Mutsuki
Against, it’s just my opinion, but yep I definitely think that Mucchan totally was obsessed and in love with Sasaki (not Kaneki though, just to precise, because it makes a notable difference since Sasaki is just one part of Kaneki).
I explained why I thought so before here and here, so please check these posts for more details!
Tsukiyama
It starts getting complicated. xD So to make things simple, let’s just say that I think it’s definitely possible that Tsukiyama felt something like romantic love for Kaneki at some point, but it’s not something that has to be as clear as day for everyone, including Tsukiyama himself.
Whether Tsukiyama ever felt romantic love for Kaneki or not though, for me, ever since he realized a while ago that these possible romantic feelings always were going to be unrequited, I think…
it changed in favor of a love that’s not romantic anymore.
Tsukiyama only acted possessive & jealous with Kaneki back when he considered him to be a top class meal. After that, it became genuine concern over bringing Haise back to who he used to be, because Tsukiyama realized that he really cared about Kaneki as a person…
but still, never once after the Anteiku raid arc did Tsukiyama show any animosity towards Kaneki getting closer to Touka (look at how happy he was to organize their wedding ceremony or how much he already loves their future baby), which is why I can understand people saying it doesn’t have to have been romantic.
Just like for Tsukiyama, I can understand why people have opposite takes on what Hide said to Amon…
…and I don’t mind whether Hide meant that his feelings are romantic or not.
The only thing bothering me (so to speak) is why we never had any clear hint of that (unlike with Touka, Mutsuki or even with Tsukiyama) before his words of ch148, if he meant for that confession to be taken in a romantic way, especially since he’s the one who’s known Kaneki for the longest time.
Obviously Hidekane fans won’t agree on that, but that’s why I can understand some people seeing Hide’s confession as being similar to Eto’s, except that Hide’s link to Kaneki is meaningful in a completely different way.
So I’m just undecided. On the one hand, the absence of previous hints makes me think it’s possibly platonic, but on the other hand, if it really is romantic, then I have no problem with that and I’m happy that Hide seems to be taking so well Kaneki falling in love with another person. :))
There you go, I hope it helps! Have a nice day Anon! ^_^
Either I’m reading too much into this due my inability to sleep rn or there is something with all this. As X in this series appears or gets emphasized on usually when it is related to hybrids in some manner.
@eto-when-and-where sorry it took me so long to get back to you. :3 Actually, leaving Hide’s headphones aside because a better version of the cover gave me the impression it rather seemed to be a ray of sunlight (not that it changes anything to these theories), I think the whole “X” thing really is supposed to imply hybrid/crossbreed:
Itori introduced the concept by making that X gesture with her fingers, but she also showed just one kakugan so far so… I’m not saying her being a OEG is the most likely possibility but, y’know, I wouldn’t exclude anything either until Sensei addresses the topic. xD Anyway, there seems to something personal about hybrid babies with her. EDIT: also…
you made a great point about Eto, who’s a natural OEG (it always was such a confusing part about vol 8 for me. I couldn’t understand why they’d refer to her as X)
same about ch125, even if it most likely wasn’t the day Touka became pregnant (unless ghoul pregnancy lasts longer than 9 months), but it was just to imply that Kaneki and Touka falling in love would eventually result in conceiving a lil hybrid baby
finally, there is a Uta: artificial or natural I don’t know, but there are hints that he could be a OEG. To give an example, the X headphones happened during the same chapter as….
Hi Anon, thanks for reading! Haha, do you mean when he was the Witch’s servant?
More than being dressed as a Clown, it’s the little resemblance to Ganbo, a Clown from the auction arc, that always struck me:
The whole “Witch’s servant” is why I’m not considering that Hide is completely on his own actually, especially since he would have needed help escaping the Washuus for years anyway. The question that remains though is “who is the witch”, since this play was always a good indicator of TG’s plot.
For a long time, Eto was thought to be the one who had this role and I agree that it’s a good possibility (I mean, Scarecrow went to Rushima probably not undetected, there is the book that was sent to Haise in ch31.5 that could come from either Hide or Eto), but I could never dismiss the idea that it might also be someone else, since we don’t know for sure, hence this kind of theories.
The gist of it all is that Hide probably doesn’t really belong to a group in particular: it’s possible that he associated himself with different characters (like the “witch”) or organizations throughout the story just to reach his goals, just like Kanou did.
Hi! Ohhh, I had forgotten about that, thanks Anon, but actually I’m not surprised at all that Hide plays Go (I’m not sure that Matsuri playing shogi is related to any of this though, since he’s less mysterious than Hide, but it does attest to his intelligence too). :))
Of course, there is literally 0 hint that Hide and Uta ever played chess…
…but considering @kingkishou‘s theory about what happened in the sewers before V14 being way more significant than we could have initially thought, I’m not trusting either Hide nor Uta, because they’re way too shady and mysterious as of right now.
And even if somehow it turns out that Hide and Uta were playing chess together (if just because Kaneki’s mask and Eto’s book were sent at the same time in ch31.5, which could allude to Hide and Uta having a few plans in common), it doesn’t even automatically mean that Hide belongs with the Clowns.
Speaking of “recruitment” now (even if again, Hide might not be a Clown at all), Spooky-chan likes to say that I play a lot with clown conspiracy theories but…
by now, there is a possibility that Uta is the Nagaraj (or has a strong connection to him) and Furuta said something about the Nagaraj “sharing his life force”…
so I wonder if several blond kids with apparently no parent but a connection to the 24th ward might not be a hint to some kind of link, as I proposed here.
So maybe Hide comes from the 24th ward
(as in, maybe all those blond kids were somehow born from the Nagaraj’s kakuja which would be what Furuta meant, even if I have no real idea as to how it’d be possible) and it’s not that he was recruited, but rather that maybe, like Roma, Itori mentored him for a while when he escaped the 24th ward (which would explain why he knows how to collect and use information).
After all, I always wondered about that scene…
…because, aside from Donato in Cochlea, all the other Clowns (including Furuta) were listening to her answering “what happened to Kaneki”, so who provided that information about the CCG in the first place? I mean it’s not like Hide wasn’t by Marude’s side until the Anteiku raid arc.
It’s just a theory though, nothing confirmed at all and maybe I’m just reading wayyy too much into it, so please take it all with a grain of salt. :3
Have a nice weekend Anon!
Hi! I never mind anyone sharing their thoughts Anon. :))
However, even if there are definitely more chances for you to be right than me, I can’t be sure for the moment, because the 24th ward was destroyed after Dragoneki appeared. So even if Touka and co most likely stayed around where their old base was, how would
Hide
have found them since he wasn’t a part of the operation?
And even going with your idea and assuming that Dragoneki hadn’t annihilated almost everyone down there to protect Touka (since we know a part of Juuzou’s men escaped)…
…are you sure that Hide would have asked anyone about where exactly the operation took place, when everyone was panicking and no one back at the CCG seemed to have known about his plan to contact ghouls?
That’s why I’m just not sure, even if you might be right and anyway, it’s also true that Hide could have simply guessed on his own that Touka and co would have been somewhere close to where the old 24th ward used to be. :))
…and that’s why I don’t think he’s on his own, whether it is with Eto and/or one/several Clowns and/or other characters that he shares or shared a plan.
Thanks for your insight though, I really appreciate it! 🙂 Have a nice weekend :3
Kaneki, Hide and Uta in the sewers by @kingkishou [x][x]
honestly i love all these theories
Insane theory 2.0: what if Kaneki isn’t the one who hurt Hide’s mouth/throat to the point he could hardly talk without an equipment, because
either he only met Uta (or one of his kakuja clones, but same deal) in the sewers,
or there were two Hides, but Kaneki only ate the one who was actually Uta?
Meeting Uta in the sewers would explain the possible weird thing going on with Kaneki’s right eye during V14 (please see @kingkishou‘s theory I linked to above) + why Uta had Kaneki’s mask in :Re, despite Kaneki throwing it away in the sewers (even if, of course, Uta could have also simply done another similar mask between TG and :Re since he’s the one who crafted that mask anyway).
And in that case, instead of Kaneki, maybe the one who did something to Hide’s mouth/throat, way after V14 (which is to say between TG and :Re) is…
…Eto? After all we know Eto and Hide possibly have/had a link ever since this scene:
and we still haven’t received an explanation for these stitches Eto did on people.
but the Hide Kaneki saw and the Hide he ate (which is the part we have yet to see) were two different persons. Or he saw and ate the same Hide but it was actually Uta all along.
What I find interesting in this theory, besides more answers about some stuff Eto did, is that we know Kaneki is going to blame himself so much for what he did down in the sewers, so imagine if in fact he’s not responsible at all for this. xD Mind blowing for poor Kaneki really.
(also “Hide” not being Hide in the sewers but Uta would explain how “Hide” managed to escape after Kaneki started eating him)
I don’t necessarily think so. Hsiao just seems like a sexual person, which is fine. Like, in the omakes, she discusses Saiko in very much sexual terms, discussing her physical attributes and ‘peach fuzz.’
I actually admire how Ishida isn’t afraid to show female sexuality. Akira kissing Amon first (twice), Touka bluntly saying she wants to have sex with Kaneki and initiating it, Mutsuki expressing sexual desires and fears, Kimi has sex with Nishiki, Hsiao owning her sexuality, even Saiko talking about the Power of Boobs. Eto comes across as very sexual and enjoys being nude, but she’s not just a sexy monster, and we never see her having a relationship with anyone–i.e. it doesn’t define her. Women are often portrayed as either sexual monsters or virginal angels, but with Ishida that dichotomy isn’t there. They can be good and bad and sexual and loving at the same time.
Like, if he was drawing every single woman in his manga that way, I would start to arch my eyebrows. But he isn’t. Hinami, for example, is not sexualized in any way ever, and neither is Karren, even though her arc centers around Tsukiyama and her desire for his love. Hairu has some sexy bonus illustrations but they’re also generally goofy too, but within the actual manga she’s not really sexualized.
In fact, it’s interesting to me that men who try to control women’s sexuality are condemned. See: Torso, Tsuneyoshi, and notably Furuta, who expresses fear that Rize will have sex with men other than him, saying the idea of her getting pregnant would “keep him up at night.” And so he pushes steel beams on her, imprisons her and subjects her to torture create the Oggai. Rize comes the closest to being that nefarious seductress archetype, but Ishida kind of subverts that by condemning the men in the Garden and Furuta who try to inhibit her. He also clearly doesn’t think well of her lack of care for others, but that allows for grayness–Rize’s selfishness is awful, but it’s never an excuse for what’s been done to her, and the narrative never implies that Rize had it coming.
Actually, now that I think about it, Mayu/Nutcracker is another character that could fall into that archetype, and yet the trope is subverted again: she isn’t having sex with them and then killing them, she’s just taking revenge on men, and when she dies, she expresses that she just wanted to be beautiful.
I also think Ishida gives his… share of sexy fanservice with his male characters too. Ayato, Ui, Urie, and Kaneki have all been drawn in very sexy images, especially when fighting. If it were just the women, again I would be arching my eyebrows, but he does draw the men looking similarly sweat-inducing.
So yeah. I don’t have a problem with characters, female or male, being sexual. Some characters, just like people, are just naturally more comfortable expressing their sexuality. My complaints are actually more with the fandom reducing the female characters down to just their sexual abilities.
Eto is definitely reemerging at some point, but I don’t think this is a sun arc yet. I definitely would put more weight in a connection between Hide and Itori, if Itori had not just given up and walked off bored after Tsukiyama interrupted her.
Though, I’m doubtful this is the final swing of the pendulum when it comes to her character. As I’ve said before though I agree with you anon, that Eto is likely going to become relevant again when Yoshimura’s body also becomes relevant.
Especially since Kanou no longer has any claim over it, considering that he dead. Both Rize and Yoshimura should be relevant at some point unless V takes control of both of them.
I find V’s remarks about Kuzen to be suspicious though, as well as the fact that we’ve never seen what’s in that journal, or even Ukina’s true face. Unlike Hikari who eventually we got to see her full face when Yomo came to terms with her loss.
Considering that Yomo and Yoshimura are such similiar characters with similiar flaws, it makes sense that a similiar revelation of coming to terms with the loss with either Eto or Yoshimura would also prompt a full reveal of Ukina’s face.
There’s also about 700 parallels to Ukina and Kuzen, and the circumstance of Eto’s birth, and the 24th ward that are being paralleled right now between Touka and Kaneki, and both of them seem to be kind of wandering into that parallel blindly without learning the lesson that Yoshimura should have.
All of those are perfectly good reasons for Eto to return to the manga at some point. In fact she’s almost conspicuously absent by now, even though we’ve finally gotten into the old one eyed king and the 24th ward which are both Eto related, and ideas tied heavily to her character.
I keep thinking about this in the shower and then immediately forget to make a post about it :’)a
So I’m pretty sure this is one step closer to confirmation that Noro is a highly-functioning kagune spore borne from the original OEK. Given time, I wonder if these ugly guys that came out of Kaneki’s kagune would also have eventually gained cognizance, defined features, etc, the same way that he may have.
Maybe when his life-force was running low, Eto was able to give him some strength with the strange power she gave to Banjou and Kaneki.
midnight-in-town 