Round 2

linkspooky:

So we saw everybody band together in an epic feat of teamwork, the question is why exactly did it not work in bringing owl 2.0 down? 

It’s probably something as simple as the characters really haven’t grown enough to earn this vicotry. Which is what necessitates the clown shake down in the first place. 

Here, let me demonstrate with a breakdown of Kaika vs Yusa, the only real character vs character interaction rather than character vs giant monster that we get in the fight. 

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First, he calls the two remaining members of Zero Squad Arima’s lapdogs. Not only that but Sheep that he herded himself. That’s a rather thinly veiled and obvious Jesus metaphor. 

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Remember, Arima Kishou died for our sins. Ishida likes to remind us of it approximately every five chapters that Arima Kishou is indeed dead. 

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Arima is so universally mourned by everyone it’s almost enough to make you forget that he was a morally ambiguous character to begin with. It’s almost like his death has wiped the slate clean on him. 

As I’ve said before though, Tg: Re would never glorify suicide like that. Lately, we’ve been witnessing a slow deconstruction on Arima’s sacrifice. Including the facts that Take clearly does not know entirely what the big picture is, that he relies on Arima’s words too much, and the fact that Zero Squad has been whittled down to its last two remaining members.

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Arima’s sacrifice of his own life to make Kaneki the strongest of all ghouls was destroyed when the CCG simply replaced him with Juuzou. Arima’s choice to leave behind the zero squad with Kaneki to protect him, results in two of them dying in an almost direct result of his choice not to tell Ui to avoid confrontation.

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Take holds information to himself, and isn’t really super clear anymore on what Arima’s goals were to begin with. So, to summarize the story itself is still framing Arima’s choice to sacrifice himself ambiguously. As in there were some good things, and some bad things about that choice. However, the characters themselves still view Arima in exactly that light.

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Yomo even brings up this exact same notion to Take. That Arima did a lot of bad things and hurt a lot of people, even if he was doing it for good ends ultimately those wounds go away, and Take basically says it doesn’t matter because Arima is dead now. He brushes off the opportunity to think critically about Arima, because no matter what he concludes it won’t change the fact that Arima is still dead. However, it does matter for the sake of the living.

Take, while still acknowledging that Arima is dead is still working tirelessly to earn his praise and following the orders of a dead man. 

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So much so, he fails to grasp entirely what Arima’s purpose in leaving Take the zero squad should have been. Even after losing two members in a pointless sacrifice, Take does not realize he should stop bringing Yusa onto battlefields with him and forcing the child soldier raised from birth to fight, to fight more.

Kaiko takes both Takeomi and Kuramoto out of the fight easily, but from a character perspective it’s clear why. Neither Kuramoto nor Takeomi have grown. Takeomi simply walks straight back into being a CCG officer, not even acknowledging what happened to his father and mourning him, and Kuramoto does not even try to resolve his conflict with Take, simply choosing to make a bunch of passive aggressive comments.

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Remember, Kuramoto truly made himself vulernable for a moment when Take left. However, as usual he’s back to just making sly comments behind his fox face.

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Kuramoto wanted to believe in him, that he had reasons to do what he was doing. His sense of betrayal came not from Take’s actions, but the fact that Take chose not to talk to him about it beforehand, and Take really hasn’t changed anything in that regard, so Kuramoto simply slinky behind his mask once more. 

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Then, to the meat of the fight. Kaiko’s not just mocking Yusa here, he’s mocking the pedestal that Arima is put upon by the zero squad. Which is why Kaiko chooses these specific reminders.  Arima was a child soldier, just like Yusa, presumably just like Kaiko as well. 

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Then the juiciest moment of the chapter, while dangling a blade at Yusa’s neck he mutters, “Am I like Arima, yet?” 

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He’s not making the comparison between Yusa and Arima anymore, but rather Yusa and himself. Kaiko raised child soldiers obediently as a part of V, but so did Arima as well. Not only that, he did the exact same thing to Sasaki. Literally, every flashback we see of Arima presents him as being a cruel and ruthless teacher, even if he was one with good intentions.

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So, what Kaiko is taunting Yusa about is that by drawing out the fight to test his strength, by holding a blade at his throat, really he’s acting exactly like Arima as well. “Am I like Arima, yet?” He’s challenging Yusa’s perfect image of Arima. 

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However, Yusa really does fail to respond to that in the fight way. Take just sinks once again into calling that name an honor. He adopts his perfect image of Arima that he’s using to fight for once more. Literally what Take should be saying to counteract that is “You’re not Arima, you’re you Yusa…” but Take can’t really grasp that, because Take himself keeps dragging Yusa into combat because that’s what Arima told him to do. 

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Which is why Ui fails to think critically as well. As touching as his rememberance of Hairu and Arima is, and also even though he’s leagues above Shuu who refuses to remember even Matsumae and Karren’s name, we should remember that Ui was given the oppurtunity to tell the CCG the truth about Furuta, Arima and Arima’s legacy and he chose to lie instead.

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Even though, Ui himself much earlier was the one who grasped the nuance of the situation, that people were allowing Furuta to take power, not just Furuta being the only bad egg in the CCG. Blaming it all on Furuta, is probably something that Ui did to protect both Take and Arima’s name, but utlimately it’s the wrong choice, and one that brings him farther away from the truth.

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Which is likely the reason why Ui is still smoking as well. His smoking is a sign of his own personal emotional repression. After Take tells him at least part of the truth of why he left, Ui says he’s going to be smoking a lot more now. He really hasn’t come to terms with it, and probably won’t until he’s set up confront Hairu, which may come soon.

However, at the end of the day the characters have failed to grow which is why instead of banding together to heroically defeat Owl, they’re exposed to round two. The heroic blow that Yusa dealt Kaiko essentially meaning nothing as it stitches itself up right away, the owl exploding and killing more just like when it looks it might be detained. 

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As per the usual in Tokyo Ghoul these problems can’t be overcome with fighting and strength alone. 

As for what will happen next, considering this is an owl kagune I wonder if it’s bait to lure Amon out. After this explosion there probably won’t be many ground investigators left that can match it. 

Amon showing up to help his comrades (and “for peace!”) against Owl 2.0 would make a lot of sense, especially considering that the current situation is rather strongly reminiscing of what the CCG tried to do with him in ch114/115 (with another parallel once Seidou hopefully shows up). 

Also, considering how the cross part of the Owl 2.0′s body seems like a signature of Donato in particular (even if Uta was also associated with the cross pattern)… 

it would be interesting to see Amon trying to face the one who’s possibly Eto and thus half the responsible party behind him becoming a OEG, something he still can’t fully accept to this day.

I was discussing this with @amonmahboi​ yesterday but actually, Donato having “fun” with someone who’s possibly Eto (other strong possibilities being Hairu and Karren) as payback for what happened to Amon between TG and :Re would be a very ironic development, especially if Amon indeed shows up to fight that Owl 2.0.

It would be like “I’m stuck in the past because of my horrible father figure and despite becoming a OEG, but here I am fighting for peace against a monster who’s threatening my comrades, not knowing that this monster is actually the result of my horrible father figure seeking revenge for what happened to me”. 

It makes a good setting for Kaiko’s round two when round one seemed rather hopeless. At least to me. Oh well, just some thoughts. :3

echo-from-the-void:

Hmm, the cross on the decapitated body, and Donato`s appearance in the last chapter makes me think he is connected to this somehow. It`s a little bit hard to tell from the scans, but it almost looks like that the cross is fused into the body. Maybe it`s not an metallic object, maybe it`s something more organic like a kagune? I wonder if that piece could be from Donato´s kagune, and he is controlling the body trough it? It`s implied that he cloned himself and controlled the body from far away, so inserting a piece of his kagune into another body and assuming control is probably not that far fetched. Maybe it`s even easier to do when the head and the brains of the original body are missing?   

Or maybe it means that this is a clone?

Or maybe this is just some cruel mocking and showcasing irony from the Clowns part about Eto´s fate. I am going to assume that this is Eto, but as was discussed last week other possibilities still exist. If that is Eto then her fate is rather ironic. In the past she was the person who manipulated and used others as her puppets. Tools to accomplish her wanted goals. Karren was nothing but a tool to Eto. A puppet which she forced to dance. 

Now if the Clowns are controlling her, then Eto herself has become a puppet. With her head cut off, the symbol of rationality in my mind, maybe it symbolizes how the Clowns (or the folks who did this to her) have transformed Eto from an intelligent, cunning manipulator and a marvelous writer, into a irrational, screaming beast who has no sense of self or will of her own. 

Eto also sewed Karren´s mouth and eyes shut, and now a similar fate has fallen upon her, an mask has been sewed onto to the kakuja body.

That the face was stitched was detail that was already observed, and speculated correctly by  @midnight-in-town last week.

It`s possible that all of the ideas mentioned above aren´t correct. 

midnight-in-town:

mawjaw:

“now bring out ‘her’“

IF THAT’S NOT ETO (OR KARREN) I RIOT

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sorry for the closeup, but I just remembered thanks to Spooky-chan to mention this…

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A while ago, I was wondering if the stitches weren’t about not letting a kagune/kakuja bursts out of Karren’s body (through the eyes and mouth, kinda like it happened to Saiko recently) since Eto literally injected her kagune into Karren.

That’d explain why she possibly stitched Tatara and Rio too, if she ever left them a gift like she did with Kaneki (whose right hand wasn’t the same until the last chapter). Besides, can you see the mini eyes beneath the stitches? 

That’s why despite thinking of Eto at first, I totally agree now that this poor thing

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is most likely Karren. ;_;

EDIT:

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Sorry Anon-chan, but please look above! 

Of course, it’s possible that Donato and Uta brought Eto back from Cochlea since they were there (Eto was also my first guess once I saw this poor monster), buuuut I’m vouching more for Karren right now, for all the reasons stated above. :3

I hope it’s understandable, please have a nice day!

midnight-in-town:

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When TG makes you go paranoid

Hey, but if Shirazu is really coming back as a zombie or one of Dragon’s nuclei…

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I think maybe this could turn out to be relevant???? 

Also, maybe it’s 200% meaningless but you guys remember Root A ep 8? It was the backstory of Yoshimura, about Ukina and Eto and V. Well, it turns out that the ending cards for this episode were

  • Ukina & Yoshimura carrying baby Eto (natural OEG) 
  • Kaneki (artificial OEG)
  • Itori & Uta (and I’m wondering if that was on purpose or not since at least Uta might be a OEG). 

(for real idk, it’s really just a post to let out all paranoid feelings)

waraupiero:

waraupiero:

yo i’m actually excited by kaneki and touka matching because in traditional chinese myth (like the oldest iteration) the phoenix (凤凰) is depicted in pairs, facing/mirroring each other – the fèng (凤) is the male bird, and huáng (凰) is the female bird. so what if there are two phoenixes?? both kaneki and touka??

also, traditionally the feathers of a chinese phoenix come in five colours, representing the five confucian virtues (i may be getting the colours wrong because i’m a Bad Chinese Person but here we go):

  • rén (仁) [black]: charity, humanity
    • [kuroneki????]
  • (義) [white]: justice, righteousness; can also be doing one’s best (in service of others), loyalty, consideration for others
    • [oek??]
  • zhī (知) [red]: knowledge; alternatively it could be zhì (智), wisdom.
    • [could this be the red of kagune? we are learning more and more about it + it gives the (former) human characters perspective/understanding]
    • [alternatively, the red of uta’s eyes?? man knows too fucking much]
  • xīn (心) [green]: lit. heart; faithfulness, true to oneself. could also be xìn (信), which is belief, or faith in someone else.
    • [since green is eto’s motif, could this be eto’s influence on both kaneki & popular ghoul ideology?? eto is the heart of aogiri and helps make kaneki the heart of goat]
  • (礼) [yellow]: lit. manners, correct behaviour. but it could represent a religious sacrifice; a ritual.
    • [you know who’s yellow and a sacrifice? lmao hide]

i’m probably reading too much into this because who knows how relevant chinese mythology is to tg, but yo it kind of fits. phoenixes are actually the oldest sign of chinese imperial power; the chinese emperor’s called huáng dì (皇帝), which is obviously a reference to phoenix (just look at the two characters lmao). the dragon did not come to embody chinese imperial power until the yuan dynasty, a dynasty that was created by invaders, the mongols.

also i’m hoping that the phoenix imagery is going to come to mean that kaneki (& also touka if the fèng huáng is really two parts) is nearing the end of his evolution as a leader. unlike the dragon, which is sometimes a malicious and unknowable force, the phoenix is always a sign of virtue, light, and righteousness. it is said that a phoenix will only manifest in a ruler without darkness or corruption (zhèng zhì qīng míng, 政治清明). exciting. maybe this is when goat will finally come into its own

addendum: dragons in chinese myth can fly, but they are primarily gods of the sea (usually when they ascend to the sky, they cause storms/typhoons, so still watery shit)

do you know who’s watery

also worth noting is the chinese trope character the xiǎo lóng nü (小龙女, ‘little dragon girl’) or lóng ér (龙儿, ‘dragon child’), who is known to be beautiful beyond usual comprehension/imagination, white as snow (REMEMBER THE WHITE HAIR GUYS), powerful so don’t underestimate her!! and cold and indifferent (MY ICE QUEEN <3).

she is a trained master in martial arts (looking at you shachi, father of the entire century), and reportedly will marry/give her power to anyone who manages to defeat her (ha good luck dying trying, folks). in one iteration of the story she ends up falling in love and marrying yáng guò (杨过), whose name literally means ‘mistake’ because his mother regretted having him with his father. he later gets the courtesy name gǎi zhī (改之, ‘to correct’). both he and xiǎo lóng nü in this story grow up as orphans, relying on one another to survive, and thus their relationship is seen as somewhat incestuous.

you know what this reminds me of? furuta.

So does kaneki have all types of kagune now?

midnight-in-town:

Hello! And honestly Anon, Kaneki’s body is such a mystery right now that I can’t be sure of anything. xD However, I do admit that I have noticed a change in the general use of his kagune ever since he faced Eto in the Roze arc (which is when he got his first red hand).

So lately, I’ve been wondering if maybe that’s not what she meant about leaving him with some kind of gift, because look at this, during the Cochlea raid arc…

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or the raid on the 24th ward arc…

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And now…

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So whether Kaneki now has different kakuhou types or not I can’t say at all, because it could just be that he’s using his rinkaku kakuhou to produce a kagune that’s looking a lot like other types. After all, Eto did explain that imagination played a crucial role for the kagune’s shape:

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What I think however is that Kimi opening Kaneki up to look inside his body doesn’t have to imply that his whole transformation is only due to that nucleus Furuta gave him in ch144. Sure, that nucleus apparently made him “complete” (according to Kanou’s words), but I’d say his transformation started with the Roze arc and Eto’s “gift” because that’s when he got his first red hand: 

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TL;DR

  • does he still have just a rinkaku kakuhou but it’s his imagination that allows him to give his kagune a shape similar to other kakuhou types?
  • or does he now have all kakuhou types because he’s “complete” (and that’s what those new organs could be about)?

Both are possible but I really can’t say which one is more likely to be the correct answer right now. x) 

Sorry that it can’t help so much, but please have a nice day Anon!

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Hi 🙂 Sorry for not being so clear above, but the issue here is not him eating Eto’s kakuhou since we saw him do that, rather it’s whether or not Eto’s kakuhou contained something special (which I think it did, since she mentioned some kind of gift, but it’s not confirmed) and what kind of transformation it possibly led to. 

Simply, personally I think eating Eto’s kakuhou led to him starting to use his kagune/kakuja differently (see the examples I gave above), but whether or not this (+ Furuta’s nucleus from ch144) led to him developing different kakuhou types, unfortunately we just don’t know for now. 🙂

Maybe he developed other kakuhou types than rinkaku, maybe not. His entire body looks like a kagune so it’s really impossible to say for now, you heard Kimi, even she doesn’t get it. x) 

Take everything with a grain of salt where Kaneki is concerned Anon because for now he’s a mystery! Have a nice day. 🙂

Hey there! :D You know, I was thinking about your theory of the seven dragons and don’t you think that Amon in his « re » tube in ch110 was actually experimented on to become one nucleus, that is until he was freed by Seidou? I mean if you look to his left side, I kinda see something that’s similar to what we could see on Furuta when Kanou explained about giving him a nucleus.

awdipdog:

Ya know you might be onto something here

Kaneki and Rize had similar veins after popping out of dragon

Eto did originally capture a bunch of investigators for Kanou in hopes of making a “new” Kaneki Ken.

Wonder if that meant making them a new conduit for dragon too