Étiquette : ciel phantomhive

Crack theory: the Phantomhive lineage is at the origin of the Watchdog duty

Very old idea related to ch103 & the GW arc overall that I never took the time to write. 

Based on the fact that Claudia was most likely Vincent’s predecessor, which is implying that, when no more male heir available, using a woman from the Phantomhive family as the Watchdog was apparently a better alternative than giving the job to another nobleman loyal to the royal family.

@frederickabberline previously made a post explaining under which circumstances noble women could inherit anything, so it isn’t strange that Claudia was able to get that title. Still, the Watchdog position implies keeping control over the underworld, solving weird cases and cleaning up after the royal family, so it’s not exactly a normal position.

To keep it within a family specifically (the Phantomhives) could be a matter of keeping the Watchdog’s identity a secret, but…

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…clearly ch132 and Vincent explain that, if no more heir, the whole thing goes back to the crown who decides who they’ll give it to next. So it’s probably Victoria who decided to give it to Claudia in the first place, allowing her to inherit despite being a woman (we don’t know when) and…

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it’s also the Queen who decided that a 10 year old boy from the same family would receive that position. 

So, assuming that the royal family intends on keeping the Watchdog duty as tightly related to the P family as possible, the question is why? Well, my answer for now would be the lineage thing.

Granted that we don’t know exactly what that lineage is yet, why it apparently has to be activated, etc, but it seems to at least have to do with being able to see/sense/detect supernatural beings. So far:

  • Ciel managed to spot the Shinigamis in ch103 despite them being invisible to normal human eyes at the time
  • there is a suspicion about Frances also being able to see through Seb’s human disguise (not saying she knows he’s a demon, but at least that he’s not human)
  • the German Shinigamis said that “it runs in the family” so we can assume that it spans more than just two generations (so it’s most likely unrelated to whoever Cedric K. Ros- is) 

And I’m of the opinion that it could probably be seen as useful if the royal family were to know about (and believe) it. 

For now though, it’s hard to consider whether or not Victoria herself gave out hints that she might know about the lineage, because her absence of surprise towards Ciel’s report for the Weston arc could also be explained by John Brown most likely being supernatural and by her side, as many have guessed before.

The thing is, I find there is a possible analogy between the Watchdog’s duty

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and Seb’s own situation as Ciel’s personal dog

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Because Will basically said that a demon with a leash on (the contract & Seb’s own aesthetic) was better than free demons who would probably go around scavenging for souls that Shinigamis work hard to collect. 

And it’s kinda the same if we’re considering that the Phantomhives are dogs to the royal family: putting a collar on them makes them less dangerous and more easy to keep under control (eventually hanging them with it if needs be, as UT pointed out), especially if what the royal family was originally interested in was how useful the Phantomhive lineage could be to them. 

The other reason I came up with this theory is the Green Witch arc overall: again it’s just my opinion but, while the last part of the arc was really good, I have a few issues with the rest of it.
I explained here why but, to sum up: compared to all the other arcs, the fake supernatural settings (werewolves, witch, curse/magic, etc) are rather unrelated to the true subplot (German army researching war weapons using a young genius), which is unusual and makes it too convenient as a result. 

That being said, since I like to believe that Sensei does things for a reason, I’ve been thinking that maybe the fake supernatural settings of the GW arc are supposed to be relevant elsewhere in the story, kinda like how the murders at manor arc ended up being used as an introduction to the war suplot. 

So initially, looking at what Sieglinde believed to be the truth, you get this story…

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and let’s just say that this is a situation that could have easily been applied to the Phantomhive family, if anyone ever found out that they were “gifted”.

Again, we don’t know what the lineage is or where it comes from, but if Ciel’s ancestors ended up being hunted as heretics

at some point

because of it, then similarly to Sieglinde’s story, who knows if they didn’t agree to a pact with the royal family (the Watchdog duty), in exchange for their protection?

That pact gave the royal family the huge advantage to get their own little gifted dogs, generations after generations, and to use that special lineage indirectly for themselves…

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…as long as they kept a tight leash on this family.  

I’m aware it might appear a little far-fetched, especially when we don’t know what the lineage

really

is about yet, but that’s why it’s a crack theory. 

To be honest though, I can’t help but also wonder about the timing of the lineage thing’s introduction by Sensei: ch103 is right during the final part of the GW arc after all, so it could be a coincidence or narratively meaningful because the settings of the arc do have some sort of link to that lineage stuff. :))

Let me know if anything is unclear! As always thanks for reading!!

lunar-beauty:

shinigami-mistress:

The heart, the core, of Lizzie’s dilemma all revolves around one thing.

Love.

She believed herself to be in love with real!Ciel, yet she was fooled by our!Ciel. This leads to question the validity of her feelings and love. How could she love someone and not see he was the not the one who returned to her? That’s the question burning in her mind.

Since his return, she has grown closer to our!Ciel and loves him, yet he lied to her. She now questions all their interactions and everything he has ever said to her. She cannot trust him and thus cannot trust her feelings. 

Her confusion right now really is one of the heart.

@shinigami-mistress  While I agree with all of the points you made, I believe that Lizzy’s main dilemma in this arc is going to be choosing between love and duty. 

Lizzy’s relationship with O!Ciel was one that was based on love. She always showered him with affection and did her best to make him happy. And she did all this not because she thought it was her duty to do so as his fiance, but because she loved him.

Her relationship with R!Ciel on the other hand, was based on duty. Lizzy was trained since she was young to protect R!Ciel, so when she learned the truth about O!Ciel she immediately sided with him. She felt like it was her duty to do so, as his fiance and because she had already failed him before.  

And now Lizzy has to choose, between her love for O!Ciel that turned out to be lie, and the sense of duty she felt toward R!Ciel that lead to many deaths and O!Ciel being accused of a crime that he didn’t commit.

Hi ☺ what are your ociel and Edward (before phantomhive murder) relationship headcanon/s be like? Thanks and more power to you and your blog

her-majestys-watchdog:

I do actually have a headcanon for this! It’s completely far-fetched but I like the idea regardless.

Crack theory: Edward would occasionally sit alongside OC whilst RC and Lizzy played outside. Though OC was a lot younger than Edward, he was mature for his age (quiet, interested in reading, etc) and they got along. Because of this OC was probably Edward’s “favorite” out of the two twins.

It’s a little silly, but my main reason for considering this was due to OC’s reaction in CH73 when Edward grabbed his hand, prompting the thought that OC was remembering the closer relationship they used to have in the past (because of his shocked reaction).

OC is quite evidently shocked because Edward had correctly guessed his reason for being at Weston, but I want to be deluded and pretend there is a secondary meaning. Above all, the use of hand imagery seemed familiar to me since Yana usually uses it to symbolize kinship:

The above is from CH93 but see also CH93, CH60, CH63 and CH96.

But then it is broken away, so this could reflect the change in their relationship? Haha, but you know what they say about making large assumptions from small amounts of data (it is a bad idea).

There’s also the fact that we’ve never seen Edward outside with RC and Lizzy, even though you’d imagine he was visiting alongside her sometimes? So perhaps he was inside with OC at times, he seems like the type to prefer those kind of indoor activities since he is not naturally great at sports + was older.

His “ordinary” status does similar to the position OC found himself in as a child too, I could see them getting along in some way! It’d be an interesting contrast to OC’s relationship with Edward now, though perhaps totally unnecessary since we’ve had so many reveals already.

However, this is a complete reach that is levels above the “absurdity” that people saw in the 2CT. I doubt it’s true! Fun to imagine though.

what’s your opinion on what has happened to our!ciel in the most recent chapters as a whole? who do you think will stand up for him, and maybe even fight for him, while all of this is happening?

her-majestys-watchdog:

I think most of the cast who didn’t know OCiel before he became ‘Ciel Phantomhive’ will stand up for him! And luckily, that is the vast majority of Kuro’s character-list. The only reason the 2CT worked is because most MCs are not OCiel’s past friends or family.

So you can basically say everyone in that room who saw him got arrested? They are less likely to side with OCiel… at first. But everyone outside of it? Well that’s basically the people who have reason to side with him. They didn’t know RC, it means way less to them.

Excluding:

  • Frances (because she’s complex and Yana’s obviously withholding her for reasons rn)
  • Lau (does Lau even know what’s going on ever, does he even know OCiel’s name isn’t ‘Earl’)

But yeah that is a generalization, I’m sure there will be a mixed-bag of reactions.

hey i agree with u about madam red but actually do u think that maybe francis is the opposite of madam red about oc: red played favourite with rc but francis is a cool mom who saw the twins equally and treated oc as one of her kids ever since he lost his family? think yana is doing it on purpose???

her-majestys-watchdog:

frances has been realistic about the twins’ situation from day one, and maybe that makes her come across as harsh, but it’d be counter-productive to pretend ociel wasn’t the second in line, wasn’t sickly, wasn’t going to struggle to fill his brother’s shoes if he needed to (without the aid of a magical demon butler).

she’s cool. and i respect her a lot, love frances

What are your thoughts on Lizzie? I really love how she is facing her feelings right now, all the growth she will have by the time this arc is over will be astounding.

hamliet:

I was proud of her for realizing that her love was an illusion she used to comfort herself, but I also feel it was only a partial revelation and another one will be coming, and I’m excited for it. Lizzie is a Good Female Character, I’ll fight anyone who says otherwise. 

See, illusions have always been a calling card for Lizzie’s character, in that she’s lied about who she is as well to get Ciel to like her by pretending to be weak. I hope she realizes that the situations are basically inverses of each other soon, because she needs to. R!Ciel is an illusion himself right now, probably not actually alive (I think?), and also his persona is most likely an illusion itself. The only thing that’s real about him is his name. 

I am also glad she does not see the twins as interchangeable (thank God) and also realizes that she doesn’t really love or know R!Ciel. I think that will be vital as well, because R!Ciel is still dead somehow and also is currently acting truly awful and quite possibly was manipulated into having his family attacked. She didn’t know O!Ciel’s true identity, of course, but I do think she knew quite a bit more of him than she ever knew of R!Ciel. Yes, there are things he keeps from her, quite a bit of them, and that’s wrong, but I don’t feel like everything is a lie. It’s up to her to decide whether or not that matters. I hope it will. 

The illusions idea ties into the theme of conforming to expectations vs being yourself, which has been a persistent theme in Black Butler with Sieglinde, O!Ciel, Lizzie, etc. They all have roles they see themselves as needing to fill, but these roles are really prisons that limit them from truly realizing their own power and how close they can become with other people. Soma ties into this as well, but he’s done a far better job of escaping from it currently, which is why I really hope he has A Talk with Sieglinde and Lizzie when he realizes R!Ciel killed Agni and not O!Ciel. But the manga is also fairly sympathetic to the idea of expectations because you don’t really have a choice about the role you’re born into, but it’s not really responsible to just shrug it off either. So there’s a tension there and I think Lizzie is starting to explore just that.  

Chapter 144 Thoughts

chibimyumi:

captainaceofspades:

So…after reading the chapter, I haven’t come away with so many emotions in while. And I just need to address that I love Toboso-sensei so much for this Lizzie centered chapter because it really showcased how complex she is.

Lizzie coming to terms with her feelings and realizing she may not have real love for RCiel was something I was not expecting. I think she’s grown from that childhood obsession to burgeoning adulthood. She can begin to separate truth and lies. And though she’s “shattered,” as it was put, I think sometimes people need that harsh realization before they can mend themselves and grow from it.

Believing she’s a terrible person for hoping RCiel would come back addressed that question that OCiel had in the beginning: Would people be disappointed it’s me? Apparently yes. But at least Lizzie owns up to it and doesn’t want to feel that way. She wants to grow so much and be a better person.

In parallel, her growth reminded me how Madam Red never realized her feelings for Vincent were a childhood obsession – not real love. Madam also wished Vincent had come back instead of Ciel. She never got over that part of her life and became part of what led to her downfall. But Lizzie’s capacity to understand what’s in front of her could save her and encourage that keen sense of her mother.

(Also, Edward addressing God about putting Lizzie through this gave me flashbacks to the manga’s beginning.)

All in all. I teared up at the end. 

Predictions: Lizzie’s a badass and will be more so in later chapters. I hope she realizes she has feelings for OCiel and helps him – whether its romantic, or friendship. (I’m hoping familial friendship. I don’t want Lizzie going through more pain). 

Additional thoughts on Kuroshitsuji chapter 144

As the character who has been most explicit in showing romantic affection, it must equally be the most shameful to her, that ironically she showed this very affection to the wrong person.

The main
theme to Lizzie as a person is her doubt regarding the truthfulness of her
love.

The parallel drawn between Lizzie and Madam Red was something that was particularly interesting to me, because where this current arc regarding Lizzie is headed towards shows the good
potential to a complex story about human relationships that most teenager-centred stories fail to. (How many are about star-crossed lovers, or initial dislike until suddenly hit by a hormone-lightning? Ugh…)

As stated by Yana-sensei herself in her old blog, as Vincent is a post-mortem character, she draws him differently depending on in whose memories he is being retold.

Speaking of papa, Ciel’s papa has made a brief appearance in the latest volume [Volume 9], and I have been trying my best to draw him differently depending on from whose memory he is being recollected. (Whether I succeeded or not I don’t know)

Madam → The kind-hearted man she wants to forget
Ciel
→

The kind-hearted father
Baron Kelvin
→

An evil man with deceptive gentle looks
Tanaka

→

The Evil Nobleman Earl Phantomhive

So going back to Madam Red, we do indeed see in chapter 10, how she did not really remember Vincent for who he was, but rather who she wanted him to be in relation to herself.

Please notice how Vincent was never in full, clear view, or even in the centre of her memories. This tells us that the centre of Madam’s focus was her sister’s position as Vincent’s bride she had hoped to be.

In the end, even though she did not know who, Madam still blamed someone or something for her ill fate and is overcome with jealousy. The only person she did not blame, was herself.

This draws a very clear juxtaposition with Lizzie, who has primarily been blaming herself. Lizzie even loathed herself for so much as having thoughts of blaming Our!Ciel for the situation. That she is successfully deceived by Our!Ciel just meant that she failed the ‘true-love test’.

In chapter 144, Lizzie is still too overcome with self-loath to consider the situation from outside her own perspective (and given that she is 15, it is not so weird!). But once she has sorted out her own feelings, she might start to consider Our!Ciel’s side of the story.

Perhaps a stretch, but the final page of chapter 144 is already pretty good a lead-up towards Lizzie comparing herself to Our!Ciel and therewith perhaps consider his perspective too, after all.

The relation between Lizzie and Our!Ciel might end up being them sharing something ‘fake’; but sharing a secret is quite intimate and does not have to be a bad ingredient for a close bond.

In contrast to Madam Red, Lizzie has a much fuller grasp of who Our!Ciel is (despite ironically not having known who he was).

So, all in all, though it might be twisted, I really am looking forward to a
very twisted, distorted relationship (romantic or otherwise) that Lizzie and Our!Ciell will
have to rebuild.

Please! Give me this any time, please. Enough with star-crossed lovers, tsundere-relationships or obsessive abuse euphemistically called romantic jealousy!

midnight-in-town:

I was wondering why I was having so many “ch14″ vibes with the latest chapters and I guess now I know why. Because recently aren’t we, like, exactly there? 

It’s the same as with UT’s foreshadowing words in ch35, but even better because it comes from Seb and Seb is constantly by Ciel’s side. 

And do you remember what Seb also said, after he conveniently predicted that Ciel would sometimes need to “carry himself with humility” because he can be overconfident leading to him tripping up?

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How interesting when more and more fans agree to the idea that Frances’ absence lately, when the rest of the family showed up, could be because she’s the only one (besides Tanaka and UT) who already knew about our!Ciel lying. :)) [x][x][x][x][x]

Additional thought is additional (and theoretical) but:

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Until now I thought that this advice, also very relevant to the latest development, is something that our!Ciel heard her say to real!Ciel during a fencing lesson or something, but as it turned out, the flashback never addressed it.

Of course, maybe Sensei wrote that bubble but it’s not supposed to be meaningful on the long run, except that it’s kinda Ciel’s strategy towards getting revenge for the last 3 years, so

personally

I’d call it significant… 

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And that’s why I can’t help but think that maybe our!Ciel is really the one Frances said that to, possibly during a very rare fencing lesson or, who knows, during a chess game?

Frances does seem to love games as much as the other Phantomhives (see ch14 & the hunting context), so maybe she’s as good at chess as her brother and her nephews, and this would also explain her competitive side (“you’ve still got a decade to go before even thinking of winning against me”, ch14).

TL;DR still vouching for Frances having a role to play in the current arc, either towards Lizzie or our!Ciel (or both), + still vouching overall for some sort of mentor dynamic between her and our!Ciel, because there are just so many parallels (probably both the spare to their elder brothers, both lost the same family members because of the Watchdog’s duty, etc).  

And Seb genuinely seems to enjoy the idea, which is even more interesting.

Listen

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Everytime I’m reminded that Sensei possibly didn’t forget about ch14, I’m living.

I was wondering why I was having so many “ch14″ vibes with the latest chapters and I guess now I know why. Because recently aren’t we, like, exactly there? 

It’s the same as with UT’s foreshadowing words in ch35, but even better because it comes from Seb and Seb is constantly by Ciel’s side. 

And do you remember what Seb also said, after he conveniently predicted that Ciel would sometimes need to “carry himself with humility” because he can be overconfident leading to him tripping up?

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How interesting when more and more fans agree to the idea that Frances’ absence lately, when the rest of the family showed up, could be because she’s the only one (besides Tanaka and UT) who already knew about our!Ciel lying. :)) [x][x][x][x][x]

Additional thought is additional (and theoretical) but:

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Until now I thought that this advice, also very relevant to the latest development, is something that our!Ciel heard her say to real!Ciel during a fencing lesson or something, but as it turned out, the flashback never addressed it.

Of course, maybe Sensei wrote that bubble but it’s not supposed to be meaningful on the long run, except that it’s kinda Ciel’s strategy towards getting revenge for the last 3 years, so

personally

I’d call it significant… 

image

And that’s why I can’t help but think that maybe our!Ciel is really the one Frances said that to, possibly during a very rare fencing lesson or, who knows, during a chess game?

Frances does seem to love games as much as the other Phantomhives (see ch14 & the hunting context), so maybe she’s as good at chess as her brother and her nephews, and this would also explain her competitive side (“you’ve still got a decade to go before even thinking of winning against me”, ch14).

TL;DR still vouching for Frances having a role to play in the current arc, either towards Lizzie or our!Ciel (or both), + still vouching overall for some sort of mentor dynamic between her and our!Ciel, because there are just so many parallels (probably both the spare to their elder brothers, both lost the same family members because of the Watchdog’s duty, etc).  

And Seb genuinely seems to enjoy the idea, which is even more interesting.

The Importance of the Ring

shinigami-mistress:

When our!Ciel is arrested, we clearly see he is still wearing the Phantomhive ring.

This image is no accident, and it’s rather interesting. At one time, this ring was very important to real!Ciel. This is the ring he was told only the true earl could wear. This was the ring he took from his father’s bloody body and swallowed to keep safe. He even managed to hold it inside his body and not pass it through.

Yet now he hasn’t even mentioned it. Not one time did he say one word about the ring. He could have easily told someone to give it to him, but he has not. This leads to one question.

Why?

Personally, I think there are two possible reasons for real!Ciel not to demand to  have the ring returned to him.

The Ring is no Longer as Important to Him:

As I pointed out before, the ring used to have a lot of importance to real!Ciel, but perhaps this is no longer the truth. After all, he obviously doesn’t need the ring to prove his identity since he has those (Tanaka, Lizzie, etc.) or will say that he is indeed the real Ciel. It’s actually more important to our!Ciel as it is part of his ‘disguise’ as his brother. This could even be a way to show how real!Ciel has changed since being reborn as a Bizarre Doll. When a living human, that ring was very important to him. As a Bizarre Doll, he has little to no interest in the ring.

The Ring is Part of a Bigger Plan

This is the darker of the two possibilities. We the audience know that real!Ciel took the ring, but this isn’t known by most of other characters. All they know is that Vincent used to wear that ring and now the younger twin, who has lied about his identity for nearly four years, is now wearing the ring. Because of all that’s happened, it wouldn’t be too hard for people to be led to believe or jump to the conclusion that our!Ciel had something to do with his parents’ death or had been planning to take his brother’s identity for a long time. Most people will probably believe that he is the one that took the ring since he’s the one in possession of it. Considering he’s being arrested for identity theft and on suspicions of being involved in a murderous cult, he’s not exactly being seen in the best light. Wearing the ring could only add to all this, and could be part of a plan.

Either way, I think the ring is still quite important to the story.

Thoughts?