Theoretically, yes, I think it’s possible. Undertaker was the one in charge for Madame Red’s funeral so he definitely had the opportunity to experiment on her body. As for Joker and Doll, UT was at the scene when that tragedy in Kelvin’s manor happened, and we know UT can easily retrieve a body from a burning building without Seb noticing (just like the case with RC 3 years ago), so it’s possible that UT is in possession of Joker’s body.
That being said, I can’t really think of a good reason why UT would want to revive these people. I mean, his main goal is to “not lose the Phantomhives anymore” (ch140), so it remains a mystery why he would be interested in reviving Madam Red, Joker and Doll – who are not Phantomhives – in the first place. The only reason I can think of is that he just needed as many bodies as possible for his Bizarre Doll experiments (though, iirc he had collaborated with Dr. Stoker’s hospital and was provided with enough bodies to experiment on, but yeah, maybe he just needed more…).
Plot-wise though, we know that Madam Red’s, Joker’s and Doll’s deaths deeply traumatized OC as we see them in his nightmare in ch95 along with RC, Vincent and Rachel, so maybe Yana will have them reappear and thus have OC face his trauma once again, idk. (I mean, she loves to have the characters from past arcs reappear in later arcs…xD)
Conclusion: I think the plot twist is possible, but I’m not sure whether I personally like this kind of plot twist (probably bc I don’t really feel attached to Madam Red, Joker & Doll).
This is just in case we actually start to get to the bottom of this arc in this month’s upcoming chapter. Here’s a list starting with ch108, but feel free to add in case you think I possibly forgot something!
Last update: 12/12
Ch108: what is that weird liquid that UT gave to the twin and why did he say “it’s still too early for you to wake up”?
About Bravat himself: is he a charlatan, or is he a scientist maybe?
He’s human and didn’t use to be a good deviner (ch143)
Also did he really see through Seb’s disguise or was this all pretending too?
He confirmed that he sensed Seb was different at first glance! (ch145)
ch112: how many times did Lizzie give some of her blood to Lord Canopus?
ch113: what did Lizzie mean when she was crying about “not being able to save the twin”? Save him from who or what?
it was most likely about not having the same blood type ‘cause they don’t know about universal recipients (ch144)
ch114/119: about blood transfusions => who mastered the procedure? Does it serve a purpose outside the 4 or 5 star lords (like war, as Wolfram pointed out)? How does it play into making more “perfect” bizarre dolls?
Is it why real!Ciel “grew up” despite dying 4 years ago?
How come no one knows that AB (sirius) is the universal recipient type?
ch114: Othello and “50 years ago” => is this old case relevant to the current arc somehow? Or is it just related to UT’s desertion?
Othello and UT know each other = confirmed (ch142)
ch115: about the twin’s damaged arms that we can see => is it because he’s dependent on blood transfusions?
ch116: is there a reason Nina was chosen by the sect to make all the outfits? Could it be because “the Hopkins tailors have outfitted generations of the Phantomhive family” (and “it’s all for the blue star” who’s the twin)?
ch117: why are the rooms for the 4 or 5 star lords so different? Is it supposed to remind them of their previous environment/social condition when they were still alive?
ch119: Any chance that us finding out about Wolfram having the B blood type (same as Lizzie) will be relevant later? To transfuse Lizzie maybe?
still ch119: was Othello speaking about UT when he said “that one didn’t know much about this stuff… who else is there?”? If so, then can another supernatural being be involved with the sect?
ch123: we found out that Lord Sirius is real!Ciel, but what about the other star lords’ identity? Are they possibly characters we already met (and who died)?
ch124: how/when did Bravat/the blue sect came to know and dialyze those old lords from the Parliament?
About the blue sect: any possible link to the Aurora society or even the mysterious Osiris company?
Also if UT is really the only mastermind behind this, then why the change of method between the Weston arc and now, when he called Agares a masterpiece?
ch125: what’s the point of making a second music hall in Bath? Or is it just a false lead, because it was just the place where Bravat would dialyze the old lords?
ch126: was the twin wearing an eyepatch when he came to attack Agni and Soma? If no, did Soma just fail to notice the difference with our!Ciel?
ch127: who killed Agni? Is it Polaris, the “blue star’s butler”, or is it someone else? Also is he human or a supernatural being, since Agni commented that his killer was really strong?
ch128: what was the purpose of the attack on Soma and Agni? Leaving our!Ciel a message (”who stole the candy from my tummy”)? Or simply the twin being jealous (since Soma does call himself Ciel’s “big brother”)? Something else related to the curry arc maybe, since Ciel made sure Scotland Yard wouldn’t get to Agni?
ch129: Did Ciel leave the pieces of the photo with Soma when they took him to Sieglinde? Will Sieglinde manage to convince Soma that our!Ciel is not the one who attacked him (since he’s the one who brought Soma + especially since she saw our!Ciel has the contract’s seal in his right eye)?
ch129: between the dead lords from the Parliament in ch125 and Violet probably giving the name “Ciel Phantomhive” for the blue star’s identity to Scotland Yard, will our!Ciel get in big troubles and accused of all that Bravat did in this arc?
Yes, he was for a good part of it (ch143)
where are the Double Charles?
ch129: since the servants initially thought the twin was our!Ciel, did they not notice the possible absence of Sebastian by his side? Or do we have a doppelgänger for Seb too?
ch130: how comes Tanaka didn’t appear very surprised about the twin’s return? Could he have known in advance? But if so, who told him and why? (additional question: was it foreshadowed in ch120?)
Also, how and when did Tanaka find out about our!Ciel taking his brother’s identity? Could this be related to him knowing the twin was coming back?
That’s all it is: real!Ciel is using his pawns against his brother’s in a real lively chess game. I’m a bit iffy as to what the twin ultimately wants, but let’s save that for later.
It’s a chess game and our!Ciel stepped right up to it in ch129 when he came back to the manor…
and he definitely had a late start because of the shock and confusion when realizing that his older brother is back and Lord Sirius, the blue star of the blue sect, but…
I’m sure he’ll manage to recover. 🙂 Because Ciel has people he can use against his brother too.
Without already mentioning that Abberline and probably Edward will end up on his side (Ed because he already accused Ciel wrongly in the Weston arc and came to regret it + he and Ciel investigated most of the arc together), Violet, Sieglinde and even Soma have several ways to yell bullshit about our!Ciel being the mastermind behind the sect:
For Violet, it’s a question of motivation and wanting to pay Ciel back for helping him several times + saving his life in ch125.
For Soma, he’ll first need to hear about our!Ciel having a twin brother to connect the dots and realize that his friend didn’t kill Agni
and for Sieglinde, it’s just about friendship, considering all that Ciel did for her in the past and how she’s the one who analyzed the blood samples for him.
Obviously Lizzie knows on the truth on this matter too, she knows who the real Lord Sirius is, but her heart is being held hostage by real!Ciel’s side right now so she’s a major pawn to use against our!Ciel for the moment,
but it could change because her love for our!Ciel makes her a wild card.
The servants will side with our!Ciel, who is their master, out of devotion, but they have no idea as to what’s really going on unfortunately. Except for Tanaka, who probably saw it coming (’how’ is still the question) but who’s as tied as Lizzie I’d say, seeing how sad he also looks.
So yep: chess game. Brother vs brother, Seb vs UT, Grell and Othello probably being confused af and Mama Midford hopefully still missing for a reason
(maybe Alexis telling her what happened will trigger something?). Can’t wait :))
Heyyyyy, you know who else is missing and could be considered a chess pawn for our!Ciel’s side? Lau. And Ran Mao additionally, I guess.
Not that Lau showed up in the arc so far, so the probability that he’ll play a role isn’t that high obviously, but still, Sensei said before that, even though Lau is busy running his own business while following the Watchdog’s rules, he’s mostly “interested in our!Ciel”.
Undying Seb doesn’t seem to faze or interest him so much, so he’s…
…hanging around our!Ciel mostly for his own enjoyment of things.
So I’d say he’d (knowingly) rather play the part of the pawn to our!Ciel’s side of the chess game over real!Ciel’s anyday (if real!Ciel is to become the Watchdog for a short time after our!Ciel’s arrest), because he always bets on our!Ciel to provide him with a lot of amusement.
Ran Mao will follow Lau, but she too seems to like Ciel a lot anyway…
…so that’s two more people that our!Ciel could use wisely against his brother.
In fact, friendly reminder that Lau is the most mysterious character of the whole cast as of right now (and that’s really saying something), so having our!Ciel owing him could be rather interesting for a future arc focusing more on Lau. :))
Whole post here, I cut it for the reblog to focus about Lau.
Personal opinion but I still think that Lau and Ran Mao have no reason to side with real!Ciel. Actually one way to interpret the newest cliffhanger can be as them getting in Scotland Yard’s way, waiting to see if Ciel is going to ask for their help so that they can make him owe Lau.
Because that’s actually a much more dangerous development.
From a narrative point of view, it makes a lot of sense to have our!Ciel owing Lau for helping him one way or another (for example, to help them go to France using the Kunlun company…
or wherever else they may go), since that’s how we can then get an actual build up to Lau maybe becoming a problem later.
Sensei also said in the guidebook that Lau was “probably the strongest character of the manga”, altho’ it was downplayed by her basically going “lol” afterwards, but all that to say that he remains extremely mysterious and that’s not to have him switch sides whenever it’s extremely convenient for him.
In my opinion, if he ever goes against Ciel (which I think is likely for a lot of reasons), it will be when the game is built to be way more interesting for him, not when Ciel is at his wit’s end. As always though no one has to agree with this!
As it stands, we have real!Ciel in the manor spoiling for a real fight with his brother.
He seems so cocky here, and why shouldn’t he? Our!Ciel has been framed for the murders committed by the Blue Sect. Real!Ciel has been proven, by the word of Lizzie and Tanaka, to be the real heir. Things seem to be going his way, and he doesn’t seem to have much to fear at this moment.
Except for maybe Frances.
When he was younger, he found Frances to be scary.
In fact, she’s one of the few people that real!Ciel has ever found to be intimidating. He doesn’t even seem to find Sebastian frightening or intimidating, and there’s a good chance he knows that Sebastian is a demon.
Frances was also oddly absent when Scotland Yard along with Alexis and Edward when they entered the manor. Edward’s focus was purely on Lizzie, and Alexis was never an intimidating individual to either twin. He’s more of a loving uncle than an authority figure. The simple truth is things might have been much different has Frances had been present.
There’s also the fact that Frances undoubtedly knows more about the family history and secrets than most of the others. (Tanaka being the other one who would have this knowledge.) She might know the connection between Undertaker and the Phantomhives. After all, Frances and Undertaker have never directly interacted throughout the series. Maybe there’s a reason for this.
Either way, I think Frances is very important to the story. She’s someone that real!Ciel has shown to be intimidated of. She’s always been shown to be someone who does understand situations more than she initially lets on – like spending the day with our!Ciel on his birthday or insisting that Lizzie continue her training since she knew it would be important one day. Finally, she knows more about the Phantomhive family secrets and history than probably anyone else.
can i just say that the whole “who else knew about Ciel lying about his identity from the start” is totally the same situation as the blue miracle bullshit from the weston arc? Look, be it for Vincent
or Ciel
Tanaka, Frances and Seb (and UT but not present in the scenes) are never fooled 😀
Sensei you did it on purpose for the current arc, didn’t you? xD
*whispers* the ones who figured the thing out about the blue miracle and possibly also Ciel lying (still theoretical for Frances, I know) are also the most likely to already know about Seb not being human, just saying.
For UT it’s been confirmed for several arcs, but I proposed the idea before as far as Tanaka was concerned and I don’t think it’s that far-fetched considering he is obviously mysterious and very aware of tons of things we’d all like to know.
As for Frances, there is the whole lineage thing that’s vouching in her favor. [x][x]
Of course others might suspect it (like Lau who didn’t appear very surprised when it turned out Seb wasn’t dead after all) or will soon add the pieces together (Sieglinde for example), but Tanaka, UT and Frances remain the holy trinity of characters who are somehow connected to the main mystery aka “why must the Queen’s watchdogs die so young generation after generation” so
So I was thinking about this and its possible repercussions in the current arc, i.e what Lizzie may still do before the arc ends.
I know this might not please everyone, since she’s often targeted by criticism, but she’s still a huge part of the arc (and of our!Ciel’s life) and Sensei dedicated an entire chapter recently to how she’s feeling, so you can bet it’s going to matter. 😀
Anyway, when you look at Lizzie in ch58, what she’s describing regarding the twins are two opposite dynamics:
when it comes to real!Ciel, she expresses passivity => she’s the one being protected
and when it comes to our!Ciel, she expresses activity => she’s the one who protects
Granted that this shouldn’t be taken too literally because she indirectly protected real!Ciel by fighting against Seb in ch117, just like our!Ciel protected her in ch14 for example, but this may still be interesting to consider the next developments.
After all, even though she did fight against Seb to stop him from investigating the labs, otherwise she’s been rather powerless when it comes to real!Ciel’s situation…
…or to what he (and UT) did in the current arc, which fits the passive dynamic.
Similarly, where real!Ciel telling her that he found strong women scary (when they were kids) is what led her to think she should be protected by him, the Campania arc happening 3 years after she decided that she would protect our!Ciel gave her the opportunity to reveal her true self to him…
…which is something that he accepted and he didn’t think any less of her after that (even when she almost kicked him in the face in ch107 xD).
So back to the current arc, where is this difference of dynamics supposed to lead Lizzie? Especially now that she’s freed from real!Ciel and the blue sect (who most likely didn’t give her a single chance to figure out why our!Ciel would even lie in the first place)?
Most importantly, if the current arc so far had Lizzie being passive because she was by real!Ciel’s side, now that she’s left him, can we expect that she takes on a more active role, especially considering how she’s not even pissed at our!Ciel but just super confused and blaming herself?
In any case, I think a little detour by home is a great thing because her family always supported her and also taught her how to be strong. And, I don’t know if Frances’ current absence so far is supposed to play a role in helping Lizzie realize on which side she wants to be, but it might (especially if Frances already knows about our!Ciel lying and since Sensei said that Lizzie took her mom as a role model).
My personal opinion is that if Lizzie eventually decides that her place is by our!Ciel’s side (which I think is likely to happen for many reasons), then I bet you that she’ll most likely become very active again in striving to protect him, even from her original fiancé (aka taking up the sword again and fight like a badass).
EDIT: forgot to mention but there is still that random info that Sieglinde now understands how blood transfusions work + that Wolfram has got the same blood type as Liz => could be a hint that she might get hurt because she’s going to choose our!Ciel.
I just love
the way Sensei in ch144 is kinda deconstructing everything that she slowly revealed about Lizzie in ch58.
It doesn’t mean that Lizzie is in need of a clear-cut change, she already had that change during the Campania arc when our!Ciel acknowledged that “what she’s made of” was nothing shameful…
So that basis of her character is still going strong, because it took such a long time for her to fully be proud of it and there is indeed nothing wrong with it. That’s also why it makes sense that later in the arc she goes back to this state of mind, in my opinion.
In fact, it’s the passivity and powerlessness that she showed towards the twin that proves to be in clear contradiction with “what she’s made of”.
In any case, she has been wearing the low-heeled shoes throughout the arc (there is even a clear emphasis on them when she shows up in ch142), so where we are right now, maybe she needs another of her mother’s lessons (in case Frances did know about everything from the beginning) before she will decide to take up her swords again, with which to protect our!Ciel. 🙂
Recently, I wrote this post about how Abberline might be able to put some of the pieces together. After all, he realizes that there was little reason for our!Ciel to take on his brother’s identity, and this is more than just a matter of avoiding taxes.
He’s going to be investigating more. If he talks to Prince Soma and Sieglinde, he could even learn a bit more because both of them have a piece of our!Ciel’s story. Soma knows that our!Ciel was kidnapped and tortured by a cult. Sieglinde knows that he was offered as a sacrifice to a demon. Those two clues might really help Abberline in figuring out the truth. However, there is one more piece of the puzzle.
Gregory Violet.
After all, Violet knows that real!Ciel is Sirius, and he also knows why the Blue Sect needed to collect blood. While we have no idea what real!Ciel is telling people about his whereabouts for the past 3 years, Violet does know a bit more. He knows that there’s something much different about real!Ciel.
Last we heard of Violet, he was taking to a hospital as he was barely alive. Presumably he is still there, or he might have been arrested if he has recovered enough. Either way, he would be easy for Abberline to interrogate, and he might have a lot to say.
If it is Edward who figures this out instead of Abberline, as suggested by @midnight-in-town, this train of thought still stands. Violet still could be another piece of the puzzle.
So I was thinking about this and its possible repercussions in the current arc, i.e what Lizzie may still do before the arc ends.
I know this might not please everyone, since she’s often targeted by criticism, but she’s still a huge part of the arc (and of our!Ciel’s life) and Sensei dedicated an entire chapter recently to how she’s feeling, so you can bet it’s going to matter. 😀
Anyway, when you look at Lizzie in ch58, what she’s describing regarding the twins are two opposite dynamics:
when it comes to real!Ciel, she expresses passivity => she’s the one being protected
and when it comes to our!Ciel, she expresses activity => she’s the one who protects
Granted that this shouldn’t be taken too literally because she indirectly protected real!Ciel by fighting against Seb in ch117, just like our!Ciel protected her in ch14 for example, but this may still be interesting to consider the next developments.
After all, even though she did fight against Seb to stop him from investigating the labs, otherwise she’s been rather powerless when it comes to real!Ciel’s situation…
…or to what he (and UT) did in the current arc, which fits the passive dynamic.
Similarly, where real!Ciel telling her that he found strong women scary (when they were kids) is what led her to think she should be protected by him, the Campania arc happening 3 years after she decided that she would protect our!Ciel gave her the opportunity to reveal her true self to him…
…which is something that he accepted and he didn’t think any less of her after that (even when she almost kicked him in the face in ch107 xD).
So back to the current arc, where is this difference of dynamics supposed to lead Lizzie? Especially now that she’s freed from real!Ciel and the blue sect (who most likely didn’t give her a single chance to figure out why our!Ciel would even lie in the first place)?
Most importantly, if the current arc so far had Lizzie being passive because she was by real!Ciel’s side, now that she’s left him, can we expect that she takes on a more active role, especially considering how she’s not even pissed at our!Ciel but just super confused and blaming herself?
In any case, I think a little detour by home is a great thing because her family always supported her and also taught her how to be strong. And, I don’t know if Frances’ current absence so far is supposed to play a role in helping Lizzie realize on which side she wants to be, but it might (especially if Frances already knows about our!Ciel lying and since Sensei said that Lizzie took her mom as a role model).
My personal opinion is that if Lizzie eventually decides that her place is by our!Ciel’s side (which I think is likely to happen for many reasons), then I bet you that she’ll most likely become very active again in striving to protect him, even from her original fiancé (aka taking up the sword again and fight like a badass).
EDIT: forgot to mention but there is still that random info that Sieglinde now understands how blood transfusions work + that Wolfram has got the same blood type as Liz => could be a hint that she might get hurt because she’s going to choose our!Ciel.
midnight-in-town 