@arubinoakuma also mentioned to me that while the other cultists are “freaking out” (I see that some are trying to escape or hide, one woman is praying, the apparent leader is still trying to get fame and wealth or something), there’s one individual just standing there and looking on, completely emotionless.
Who is this…?
Lord Polaris?
John Brown?
Someone else?
Whoever this is, I think they are the one who takes real Ciel’s lifeless body….
Looks exactly like RC’s butler! I wonder if it means the whole thing was predicted and planned from the start by the Queen?
I’d say planned by John Brown, and he’s manipulating the queen…. Kind of easy to do when she’s so distraught over her husband’s death that she’s perhaps a bit mentally unstable… and susceptible to suggestion… and John is her “connection” to Albert through that hand puppet….
@abybweisse omg thanks for tagging me! I rechecked the chapter and you’re right, this dude appears blatantly in one panel, so I think it’s relevant, especially since it seems he’s the only one who doesn’t wear a mask. :))
either guy who attacked the manor on December 14th. To quote myself:
hypothetically speaking, who knows if Brown didn’t actually keep an eye on the twins when they were sold to the cult during that one month? Maybe because he wanted to make sure Vincent’s sons would die (if the purpose of the attack on the manor was the annihilation of the entire P family)? Or for another reason?
In any case, things didn’t go as planned because our!Ciel summoned a demon through his brother’s sacrifice on the altar, which is probably not something Brown expected and was happy about.
Of course maybe this isn’t even Brown (the post above was written from the point of view that the Queen is the big bad), but it’s just to insist that the twins were apparently given on purpose to these child traffickers, because whoever killed Vincent wanted them to suffer before dying. So having someone making sure the twins ended up dead would make sense.
Another possibility could be that this guy was the Shinigami going to clean up after Seb. We know they sometimes involve themselves to wait and watch until it’s their time to do their job. A shinigami would also explain why the guy isn’t panicking in comparison to everyone else.
Finally, I’m just not sure about this guy above being
the same guy who killed Agni tho (@akuma-de-shitsuji), because I really think this guy is lord Polaris (same knives in his room + the fact it’s logical he went with real!Ciel since he is Sirius’ butler) and lord Polaris is most likely brought back from the dead too (otherwise why would he be a star lord?).
So unless he…
…ended up being killed by Seb, I think it’s not Lord Polaris.
TL;DR two possibilities for me:
it’s one of the guys who attacked the manor: they gave the twins on purpose to these traffickers, probably thinking the twins would suffer before dying and he was checking to make sure this was happening, except that our!Ciel ended up contracting a demon.
it’s the Shinigami who’s in charge of collecting the souls once Seb is done with his blood bath, hence why he’s chilling in comparison to everyone else because he was aware this would happen.
as a side point, it’s definitely not UT because UT found out about what happened in the cult through Seb’s record only during the campania arc.
Cloudia/Claudia bore Vincent on a Friday the 13th, and even though it hasn’t been made canon (yet), I think Frances was probably born on a Friday the 13th, too. I theorize that Frances might have been born on Friday, January 13, 1854, making her a Capricorn, which is perfect for her personality. The fandom seems to think she’s 2 to 3 years younger than Vincent. He was born June 13, 1851. If I’m right about Frances’ birth date, then that would make her about 2 ½ yrs younger.
If both of Cloudia/Claudia’s children were born on Friday the 13th’s and if Undertaker is Cedric K. Ros–, then this would be a continued parallel between Undertaker and Thoth from Egyptian Mythology. Thoth helped a goddess, named Nut, give birth to her children by playing a game of dice with the moon. Thoth won and gained five new days for the calendar year (the calendar had 360 days before this, so now it has 365). On each of these new days, Nut gave birth to one of her five children: Osiris, Isis, Seth, Horus the Elder, and Nephthys. The reason I see this as a parallel to the Friday the 13th births in Black Butler is because there’s something special about Friday the 13th’s, just like there is something special about the five days Thoth added to the calendar. If Undertaker is really their father, the “specialness” of each Friday the 13th might explain why a human woman was able to give birth to the children of a reaper….
And then there’s the case of Cloudia/Claudia’s death…. She also died on a Friday the 13th – July 13, 1866. I have a little theory about this, too. You see, I think Victoria is behind the attack on Phantomhive manor and the deaths of Vincent and Rachel. The twins were born on a December 14th, the anniversary of Prince Albert’s death… and also the anniversary of the death of one of Victoria’s daughters; Princess Alice died December 14, 1878, when the twins turned three.
Here’s Princess Alice:
I think Victoria ordered the attack to occur on a December 14th specifically because of personal hang-ups she has regarding that day of the year. Now, let’s go back to when Cloudia/Claudia was alive. I think Victoria might have ordered someone to kill her, too. If Victoria chooses the days of such attacks/hits to be symbolic of something (like with the attack on Phanomhive manor), then she might have selected a Friday the 13th because that’s when Vincent (and possibly Frances) was born. Like her death is a punishment because of her children being born… on that sort of day. Perhaps Victoria found out their father isn’t a regular human… that he’s a reaper? Then she had Cloudia/Claudia killed on a Friday the 13th… symbolic of the days of the year when she gave birth….
How’s that for you? 😉
Not to mention, in the current arc of the manga, we’re only a few weeks shy of the twins’ fourteenth birthday. The day before (December 13th, 1889) is a Friday the 13th. Perhaps we can expect some sort of significant event on that day?
I headcannon these theories!
@the-previousearl-rebornThank you for reminding me! This is one of my big predictions; I don’t know why I forgot to mention it in my original reply. I think the series will end on Friday, December 13, 1889… REGARDLESS of whether our earl lives (in some form) or dies.
@midnight-in-town When you get the chance… I think you might find this interesting 😉
@abybweisse thanks for tagging me. It’s true that the use of Friday the 13th is very probably not random, but I always assumed it was to insist on the bad luck of the P family because they’re said to be cursed.
Anyway, as you might know, I also think that Victoria is responsible of Vincent’s murder and probably Claudia’s (if she was also killed) and that it might have to do with Albert’s death, hence why the attack on the P manor was carried on December 14th in the first place.
As for Frances, I’m guessing it depends on what Yana has in store for her. If she was also born on a Friday the 13th (January 13 1884 or even May 13 1883) then I’d say it’s possible she will get involved with the revenge plot thread (and even follow her mother and brother in death). Otherwise, maybe the fact that she married out of the P family will protect her from having the same fate as her mother and brother.
Where I disagree however is on the series ending on December 13 1889 when we’re two weeks prior to this date in the timeline and not close to an ending at all, considering the amount of things that weren’t explained/focused on yet. As a matter of fact I rather think Ciel’s fourteenth birthday will either be celebrated as the interlude chapter before another arc, or that he will spend his 14th birthday “alone” because this arc still won’t be solved by this date.
Finally, I also don’t agree on the analogy between Thot and UT, because UT’s character clearly is more reminiscent of the Osiris’ myth to me, especially with that BD project of his.
Only if we are to assume it’s Undertaker doing it this time. Just because we saw him visit real Ciel a couple times at Sphere Music Hall doesn’t mean he’s behind it this time…. I think he was actually sneaking in to visit real Ciel late at night/early morning, and I think he’s trying to undermine the sect’s plans… not help them. He has his own motives. @midnight-in-town knows what I mean….
I definitely prefer the idea of UT not being the mastermind as, for now, it makes more sense indeed, but even if the twin were to have been brought back by UT, Anon’s reasoning seems a little flawed, no offense.
Real!Ciel died on the altar and Seb ate his soul meaning that, logically with what we already know, his cinematic record ended with this moment, so all that he knows about what our!Ciel did (the contract, stealing his identity) is what the mastermind (UT or not UT) told him once he was revived (which is why the twin is nothing but a manipulated pawn in my opinion).
Hey Anon 🙂 Aaaaah……. I don’t know about the “moving forward” part.
I mean, don’t get me wrong, obviously this arc is supposed to develop Ciel’s and Lizzie’s characters as well as their relationship, but… seeing as the ending could go in many different ways as of right now, it’s also possible that this arc won’t entirely solve everything and in that case, well, things might not necessarily change in the best way.
I definitely agree that this arc has Ciel worrying about Lizzie more than usual mainly because the arc is long when it comes to the timeline (the whole thing with Lizzie and Ed started in August and we’re now in mid-November)…
But also because Ciel now fears Lizzie could be Bravat’s hostage…
And this situation is not something Ciel is used to, which is a good hint for more development indeed, but… the problem lies mostly with Lizzie for this arc.
Currently, all we have are guesses for the truth behind this arc, so we can’t really be sure of why Lizzie decided to stay at the Sphere music hall even though she’s so unhappy there, just like we can’t be sure of who the real mastermind is, even if the most popular guess is UT for now.
So, the fact everything is unsure because we’re (us readers but also Seb and Ciel) only starting to get into what’s really going on doesn’t help us on Lizzie’s situation:
We don’t know what Lizzie was told and we don’t know if whatever she was told is true or false
We don’t know if she’s just a bait/hostage to trick Ciel or if the mastermind really wants something from her directly
thus we can’t say much about if she’ll go home or not at the end of the arc.
I personally don’t think Lizzie will die in this arc, but I have no certainty either about everything being solved nicely and Lizzie going home, mostly because we’re at a turning point in the plot, as Yana’s editor confirmed at the beginning of this arc => So this arc could be used as a way to develop Ciel and Lizzie’s relationship with a happy ending + a life going back to normal once the arc is over, or it could be used to give them development but without everything being solved nicely at the end.
For example, let’s say the mastermind is indeed UT, I’m not the only one thinking it could be more interesting for the narrative if Lizzie were not to go home at the end of this arc, because it’s about damn time that someone Ciel really cares about opposes him for his own sake and not just during one arc.
TL;DR ¯_(ツ)_/¯
development for Ciel/Lizzie/their relationship? Yes, definitely!
Lizzie dying? Nah, because counterproductive towards Ciel’s development in my opinion
Happy ending? Honestly I couldn’t be less sure of this, especially considering that Lizzie was probably told something important and that it will probably have an influence for the rest of the story.
Lizzie going home? I really can’t say at this point, but I personally hope she won’t, unless she comes home with the will to change things thanks to what she learnt during her stay at the Sphere music hall.
Yana tends to make sure everything gets more or less solved at the end of each arc though, but still, Lizzie is like UT, she’s an important character so I really wouldn’t expect everything to go back to normal once the arc is over.
I hope it makes sense Anon, sorry if it didn’t, haha!
Have a nice weekend 🙂
Hey Anon! Ah, sorry, but I doubt Ciel will want to break the contract by the end of this arc when he hardly ever thought back on all his choices for the last 4 years.
Besides, for me this arc isn’t particularly about the contract between Seb and Ciel in the first place (it’s more about the relationship between Lizzie and Ciel + maybe about UT if he’s the mastermind), even if it’s true that the Green Witch arc introduced a slight uneasiness for Ciel because of what happened when Seb “woke him up” from the PTSD episode.
So nope sorry Anon, maybe Ciel will really start to reflect about the contract and Seb at the end of this arc (depending on what happens to Lizzie, who the mastermind is and what they will do, what Ciel himself will do, etc) but this arc wasn’t exactly focusing on the contract or the relationship between Seb & Ciel in the first place. 🙂
I think many agree that Lizzie not going home at the end of this arc would be a good (the best?) plot twist, if just because it’s the best way for Ciel to finally do some good thinking about all the decisions he took so far.
I disagree about this arc being the last major arc though. It’s certainly a turning point in the plot as Mr. K confirmed, but I doubt Yana-sensei will address all the big plot points (because there is more than just one) in just this one arc.
From the way it was built so far, this arc focuses on the relationship between Lizzie and Ciel + with Othello’s introduction,
in case UT is indeed the mastermind, I think we can safely theorize that we will learn more about UT and his past/goals/plans, which makes for quite a good part of the plot considering the importance of UT’s character.
Anyway, you know you and I don’t necessarily have the same theories in mind for the truth behind this arc, but thanks again for your thoughts 🙂
Hey Anon! Aww, thanks for reading :))
I just disagree with you about the big development at the end of this arc though, because Mr. K described the current arc as moving the plot forward so I’m personally expecting either a big plot twist or answers or developments or all at the same time! ^^
Besides, Yana kind of has to start speeding up considering it’s been 24+ volumes and we didn’t get so many arcs/plot twists dedicated to moving the plot forward. The manga can’t continue forever and I think we might be at approximately the 2/3 of the story, which is why it’s important for things to start moving forward a little indeed.
That’s personally why I’m being very patient considering all the seemingly filler chapters we had for a few months xD so I really hope Yana won’t disappoint me when it comes to what Mr. K meant by moving the main plot forward 🙂
Have a nice weekend Anon and thanks again for reading! ^^
Hey Anon! Hm, it’s kinda hard to answer, because Lizzie >>>>>>> everyone else in Edward’s mind and one could argue that it’s because of Greenhill in the first place that Lizzie ended up meeting with Bravat and leaving home (even if Greenhill probably had no idea that it was the plan)…
So… for all we know Edward might be pretty pissed at Greenhill and the others since he’s been worried sick for almost two months now and if there is a choice to make between Lizzie and basically anyone else, well, I’m pretty certain he’d pick Lizzie.
Besides, the only one who seems to be helping because they’re worried about the S4 is Clayton lol, Edward clearly became an idol because that was supposedly the plan to bring his sister back…
At the same time, Edward is a good guy and he was ready to forgive Greenhill this one time so… if the S4 somehow make themselves useful before the end of the arc by actually making the right choice for once (whatever that might mean in future chapters), then maybe Edward will be ready to forgive Greenhill once more. If Lizzie comes out of this mess unscathed of course.
The other possibility is that he’ll leave Lizzie to Ciel because he knows Ciel will do anything to bring her back and so I guess I could see him helping the S4 in that scenario?
I don’t know, I just really want Ed to have an actual role in the second part of the arc, as in, either he and Ciel will save Lizzie together or he’ll take care of the Lords supporting the Sphere music hall as his father’s heir, or… I don’t know but I want him to have a role that only he can fulfill. In my opinion as Ciel’s cousin he deserves to have a share of the spotlight, especially since he was basically there the whole time during this arc.
Besides, if somehow this arc will reveal things about the P family, I’d really like for Ed to be with Ciel since he’s also a Phantomhive by blood, even if he was raised to become his father’s heir.
Long story short, I want him to stay and appear until the end of the arc with an actual role and not remain a secondary character who will get out of the picture from the moment Ciel and Seb will face the villain.
Sorry, that might not really answer your question but since I’m not sure of what will happen to the S4 in the first place, I really don’t know if anyone will be able to save them or not.
Have a nice evening 🙂
I’m not entirely sure the P4/S4 even know Lizzie is there. They are never shown in the same scene….
You read my mind, I’m pretty sure the S4 don’t have any idea about Lizzie being in the sphere music hall, but that doesn’t mean Ed can’t be pissed of at them because he knows she’s in there. 🙂
Since I know a lot of readers believe that this guy…
And this guy
…Are the same person, aka Ciel’s twin, I am genuinely curious so can someone please explain me…
Why the Ciel of the first panel looks to be older than 10, when Ciel’s twin supposedly died on the altar (otherwise according to the 2CT, Seb wouldn’t have shown up)? Even as a BD, he just wouldn’t suddenly look like his 14 years old twin if he died at 10 years old, no?
Why is Lizzie crying that she “can’t save (Real)Ciel” in the panel above if he’s currently receiving a blood transfusion (since it’s Sirius’ special day), possibly trying to make him a more perfect BD?
The difference between the two scenes when it comes to those guys’ arms aside (because, while I find this a bit ridiculous, let’s say anemia because he’s a BD gives his arm a new look), if they’re the same person, why was he sleeping in ch113 but awake in ch115?
Minor question (so don’t focus on this one), but if they’re the same person, where is Lizzie in ch115? Why was she allowed to stay in ch113?
My thoughts about all this are currently here so I’m genuinely curious as to anyone’s answer, because while I don’t really like the 2CT I acknowledge it, but if it’s really what’s going on in the current arc, I don’t find this plot twist to currently make a lot of sense (thus all my questions), even considering the 4 Lords are BDs.
I’m totally agreeing on the possibility that the 4 Lords are BDs in the first place btw, as well as on the possibility that there could be a real link between Lizzie and Lord Sirius, seeing as this panel from ch114…
…happens on the evening of the Sirius-limited event (so this could very well be Lizzie being next to Sirius as s/he’s receiving all the blood they collected), but to consider the Ciel’s twin = Ciel in ch113 = Lord Sirius possibility more seriously, I really wouldn’t mind a few people answering my questions above.
I know I am not the biggest supporter of the 2CT for different reasons (and tbh if the 2CT ever becomes canon, I find this arc is not the best moment to introduce it, seeing as we still know next to nothing about UT, so solving one of the mysteries about our!Ciel before we get any answers about UT seems a bit silly to me), but I like logic, so if you can share some insight, I’d appreciate it! 🙂
For the bit about Lizzy saying she “can’t save Ciel” maybe she just means she personally, because her blood cannot be used since she isn’t a Sirius.
Also just popped into my head, what if someone clued Lizzy in about Ciel’s pact and she’s so distressed because she can’t save his soul?
Just random thoughts! No clue on the other stuff 🙂
But in Lizzie’s case, if Ciel’s twin (= Real!Ciel) really is Lord Sirius that means that in ch113 he’s currently receiving blood, so this doesn’t make sense to have Lizzie crying about not being able to give him blood when at this point Bravat always managed to secure this part?
Ok so (discussion time) you definitely proved that Ciel barely ever grew up at all over the last one year and a half, but still does that really mean he would still have the height he had when he was abducted? 4 years passed after all and he manages to reach Lizzie’s height (when she’s still a growing girl) thanks to heels…
And even considering he didn’t grow up much because he was so malnourished during his time in the cult that it bothered his growth spurt, he probably doesn’t have the childish look he had back when he was ten years old, in my opinion… After all 10 years old means a child but almost 14 means a teenager, not just when it comes to the height, but also when it comes to the change of face, voice, etc.
And the Ciel in ch113…
…just doesn’t look to be ten years old (Ciel’s face in the campania/circus flashbacks really was rounder to indicate he was younger).
Maybe I’m just biased (or maybe that’s the science student side) but while I could understand Ciel not growing up so much, there are other parts of him that would just change drastically from the time he was ten years old. But fair point in your case, maybe Yana could go down that road, that would save her an explanation even if I think that’s a bit too simple haha 🙂
One more question then, if you don’t mind… I forgot yesterday when I wrote the post but…
If the twin’s body really was sacrificed on the altar, how did UT manage to get it if the whole cult place went down burning (since we know he can’t save Vincent because Vincent’s body burned too)?
His timing was so good that if he somehow investigated the twins’ abduction for the past month, he would have arrived just when our!Ciel made his contract? But Ciel would have noticed his brother’s corpse disappearing after everything was over, no?
And besides, let’s just say somehow Ciel decided to bury his brother outside as a last farewell gesture (even if in the 2CT case, he apparently literally sacrificed his twin to get Sebastian to come over), that would mean UT would have known exactly where to look to get the body?
I’m sorry for all the questions, it’s just that, speaking only of the 2CT being a part of the answer behind the current arc (since I really think introducing it now when UT still is a mystery is a bit illogical with Ciel as the MC), it seems a bit too easy/coincidental as an explanation.
Sorry, you don’t have to bear with me, I’m just rambling out loud Thank you again for taking the time to help me with my questions in the first place, that was really nice of you :3
When it comes to questions 1 and 2, seeing as @sutcliffscythe and @glacierspirit already were kind enough to share similar thoughts, my answers to their inputs (and to yours on these questions) is just above so I hope you’ll see what my issues are with your explanations.
As for questions 3 and 4, I agree it’s not an issue in itself, but seeing as I don’t think that, even in the 2CT’s case, the Ciel in ch108 is not the MC (unlike you guys who think it’s Real!Ciel), I just thought these details could be relevant, especially when you guys are the ones who used them to defend the use of the 2CT in the current arc so… lol I was just pointing out because I remember posts in favor of the 2CT using those details (although it was a few months ago so maybe it’s not accurate anymore).
Anyway, questions 1 and 2 were the most important and for now, I still am not satisfied… Thank you all for taking the time to help though, but I guess it’s still not logical enough for me, especially in the case of Lizzie crying about “not being able to save Ciel” : who cares about different blood types when Bravat always managed to secure Sirius receiving enough blood week after week?
And why would she be completely depressed (every time she appears) when she can’t do a damn thing about her blood type anyway? That’s just… Wah, I’m sorry, I just can’t, I like when things make sense and for now they still don’t to me -_- Sorry, especially since all took time to help… I guess I’ll just have to see which road Yana goes down.
Thank you again all of you guys for your thoughts, it was nice of you to answer me!!
@abybweisse and @kurotwins thanks for your additional inputs [x] [x] [x], my answer to all your help still is in the two reblogs above, because I still think that Lizzie crying for two months straight when she just can’t change her blood type no matter what she does (since they don’t know about AB being universal recipient) is just… well, beyond exaggeration, but I guess she could be depressed, why not. -_-
As for the rest of your posts, my answer remains unchanged. Especially when it comes to how perfectly convenient it would if UT had managed to be exactly right on time for his last chance to get the twin’s body before it burnt with the rest of the cult when the children would have been MIA for basically a month.
Also @abybweisse, the Ciel shown in ch113 doesn’t have arms like Lord Sirius in ch115 + you said and I quote “The aging of the twins? Yana-san might gloss over it somehow, explain it in vague terms…” and I know you mean it for my question in particular but still, that’s precisely why I just can’t seem to like the 2CT: I don’t want vague explanations barely being logical, especially when Yana sensei managed to remain logical even when it came to the supernatural side of her story so far. ;_;
Still thank you guys, I’m happy people took the time to help but I’m sorry I can’t seem to be able to agree despite all your explanations… Thanks anyway!
Yep Anon I’ve noticed that too AND I AM JUST SUPER MAD!
Besides as I was discussing with @thedarkestcrow nothing makes sense if you forget the Midfords, because why the fudge would Lizzie be travelling alone or the Double Charles be present when this arc didn’t even start with a letter from the Queen in the first place?
What about Ciel? He ordered Seb to go save his aunt, but he certainly won’t ask Seb to go save the Double Charles! And do you even see Grey acting as selfless as the Midfords when it comes to saving the other passengers from the BDs? Geez….
From the moment they change the official subplot, it’s obvious nothing will make sense but they still had to go and do the most predictable. Aaah, movies are rarely ever good news when you like a series -_-
That’s it, the Campania arc’s adaptation is mostly already ruined and it hasn’t even aired in theaters (I’m mad.gif)…
Sorry for the negativity Anon I just am really not happy right now. Have a good day if you can, I think I’m just going to go sulking…
Ah Anon-chan… Yes actually I really hope so, that’s the only last hint I can think of with what was shown in the trailer…
but in that case, why add the Double Charles at all on the ship? That part doesn’t make sense, that would mean including more characters than necessary to the story (which means more work for the animation and actors to pay). So unless they’re supposed to replace the Midford, I just don’t see why they would be here, especially since the Campania arc is the only arc of the story that doesn’t start with a request from the Queen.
Thank you for your optimism though ❤ that’s really nice of you to share positive thoughts. We might get more content on the official site soon, so I guess we’ll know for sure a little later.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts Anon :3 Have a nice day 🙂
I know right? ;_; that’s why I’m so sad Anon…
I mean, that’s also why I love the Campania and Weston arc so much in the first place. After everything that happened, Ciel lost his parents and Ann and the only family he has left are the Midfords…
So it felt so damn important during these two arcs to have them supporting him the way they did (just with the example of Ciel asking Sebastian to go protect Lizzie’s family when they were in fact able to be safe on their own, which means Ciel doesn’t have to worry about losing more family).
You also make a very good point about Ciel, Lizzie’s issues and Frances and that’s even more significant when there is an important link between Frances and Ciel because they are a little similar deep inside.
Finally, about Ciel and Edward… Well, what happened on the Campania probably brought them closer because they knew they could trust each other even in such moments, so if they want to animate the Weston arc afterwards, it will just create plot holes, since Bizarre Dolls are also involved in the Weston arc.
Aaah, changing the canon subplot is just a bad idea for tons of reasons because the Midfords remain important to this subplot, the Weston arc and probably the current arc as well, but that’s not even mentioning how damn important they are to Ciel’s characterization as well as Lizzie’s, so it really won’t be a good adaptation if they are not there…
*sigh* Thank you for your thoughts Anon! I’m glad someone else thinks the Midfords not appearing is also a big problem for Ciel’s characterization.
Have a nice day :3
Yeah, I feel you Anon :3 This is a bad idea on many many aspects but I doubt they care about making sense in the first place.
You’re absolutely right: Grey is probably one of the less selfless characters of the entire cast and neither of the Double Charles have a place on this ship, seeing as Ciel went to investigate because Lau brought him worrisome news that had to do with where Lizzie and her family went for vacations.
The Queen isn’t involved at all in the manga for this arc and she only learned about the BDs after the Weston arc, meaning that this adaptation choice (if the Midfords really don’t show up) was mostly decided because of the budget -> the Double Charles were around in BoM so they didn’t have to look for more voice actors and that makes only two characters to animate (and only two voice actors to pay).
Logically speaking, since it’s a movie, it makes a lot of sense that they’re looking for ways to reduce the costs, but story-wise it doesn’t make sense at all, not that they care.
Aaaah, I hope you’ll still have a nice day Anon. I was fearing this in all honesty, but it still hurts to have it really happening…
Stay strong Anon :3
Aww Anon ❤ here, here don’t cry now, it’s alright. We have the manga after all and that’s the canon version, so we know the Midfords are awesome characters who totally deserve to be appreciated, and I prefer they don’t show up at all if the adaptation is not going to be faithful anyway.
We can still read about them in the manga, so don’t worry okay? :3
Thank you for trying to cheer me up Anon, I hope you’ll have a nice day! ^^
😦
I hope it’s okay to add this, but this is one of my favorite parts in Campania:
Because it’s one of those rare moments where Sebastian actually looks like he cares about someone other than Ciel.
And I love the part when he’s fighting alongside Frances, too.
And I really had my hopes up but I wanted Chapter 14 animated as an intro to Campania.
Of course it’s okay to add to this :3 so many scenes with the Midfords are worth mentioning…! I just am so sad…
AND I WANTED CH14 ANIMATED AS WELL TO INTRODUCE FRANCES AND THE CAMPANIA (T_T)
And I’m guessing we also won’t see Lau who is the one introducing the arc *sigh*
All in all, I’ll guess we’ll just keep up what were doing and patiently wait for the next chapter. Still feel pretty down… 2/2
Hmm, I’ve calmed down a bit as well :3 but I still don’t think not introducing the Midfords in the Campania arc is a good thing and I probably won’t ever accept it (I looked at the cast page and it’s basically confirmed they won’t appear), meaning I probably won’t even watch that movie (or maybe only a few parts of it).
I’m not so fond of the Double Charles that I can forgive them for taking the place of the Midfords whom I love a lot, besides everything that their presence on the Campania represents for the story and for Ciel’s character.
I also think it’s a stupid move since they’ll probably animate the Weston arc one day or another, but that can’t be helped anyway.
You’re right to keep up and think positive though :3 As for the next chapter, well this month’s chapter is really short and without real content, meaning we’re still stuck on waiting without anything new or interesting (since the cliffhanger is something many people had predicted months ago), so I hope this will still satisfy you a little.
Thank you for your thoughts Anon :3 And keep up with your optimism! ^^
*holds Anon* I knowww, I’m sad as well since I really really love her (and I was hoping to see her in color too, voiced by a good actress) but it really looks like she won’t appear, and neither will Alexis and Ed.
We still have the manga though, Anon, and that’s the canon version so I’ll just cherish my volumes and pretend this movie never happened.
Aaaah, maybe one day Frances will be animated it won’t be anytime soon though…
Try to have a nice day Anon :3 it looks like we’re a lot to be rather disappointed anyway.
I remember like a year ago I was trying to imagine what Frances’ voice actress would sound like. *sigh* I hope someday.
I really doubt the Midfords will show up since they don’t appear in the cast page but I guess one can hope until January 21st.
@samii-somnium yeah I know, they are really not making sense to make them them appear story-wise for this arc in particular…
You know Anon, not only do I totally agree with you but I hadn’t even considered such an explanation and now that you said it, it does make “sense” and that’s really depressing me…
The Midfords and the Double Charles aren’t characters that appear that often when you look at the story (the only big arc Grey had was the Murders at Manor arc, while for the Midfords it was the Campania), and I’d say out of them all and including the current arc, Edward is the one who appears the most.
So really, since it doesn’t make sense story-wise, I was really wondering why Yana would even allow it (not that I think she had a lot of choice), even if I understood that it was probably easier to only pay 2 VAs that were already introduced to the series and not 3 new ones but now, I think you’re right, I think it’s possible that the popularity poll also played a role in this decision…
What they want is of course to appeal to the fans by using popular characters, although I still think it doesn’t make sense seeing as people who voted for Grey are probably readers of this manga too so… I never understood how he managed to rank 6th considering how much of a jerk he is but I never regretted his rank as much now if this was also a reason for erasing the Midfords.
I just am confused though: I’m pretty sure the Campania IS the most popular arc of the entire story so far (both for the Western and Japanese fandoms iirc) so changing the subplot for the adaptation isn’t going to make anyone (and the ones who voted for Grey) happy, especially since the Midfords are one of the elements making that arc as popular as it is.
The only consolation I briefly find in all this is that with the current arc, there is a good chance Edward can speed up to a better rank meaning he will get to appear one day or another in the adaptation if they continue with the following arcs, but I’m less sure about Alexis and Frances.
I agree it’s definitely poor writing and doesn’t give me any desire to watch this movie *sigh* but that’s okay Anon, at least we still have the manga and we know it’s better.
Thank you for your thoughts Anon and have a nice day! :3
You know with what we had on the Osiris company so far (which is to say two panels), I always thought UT had met them randomly and the whole thing on the Campania had happened because UT had found buddies sharing his sense of humor and desperation…
But after this great post by @catastrophy-cat, I have to admit I never noticed the amount of similarities between the deity Osiris and our dear mortician, so what if UT is actually the boss/leader of the Osiris company?
Because if UT (more or less) = Osiris according to @catastrophy-cat, then maybe through the years he associated with people who might “share” some of his questions about life and death (and you know there would be humans as weird as him, if we already had humans sacrificing children to call a demon) and this wouldn’t change the subplot of the Campania arc or my current theory about what’s going on with Bravat’s blue sect.
Somehow he met Ryan because the Karnstein hospital “was a good client” and when Ryan said he wanted to bring back the dead, it gave UT a reason to work on his BD project (if he hadn’t started before meeting with Ryan). After that, in order to have Ryan agreeing to the Campania’s “experiment” without knowing, he used his company to buy the salvation technology and then the Campania arc happened.
UT is talking about a “we” above, so maybe there are several leaders in the Osiris company, or one of UT’s partners/subordinates in that company suggested that experiment to him and he thought that it was a good idea?
Moving on to the blue sect arc and my theory that the Blue Sect and Bravat are somehow affiliated to the Osiris Company (either as a direct branch, or as pawns/partners like Ryan’s Aurora society once was),
maybe Bravat is a part of the Osiris company and follows UT’s orders (about Liz/Ciel/Seb/something else) as it was theorized more than once,
maybe the Osiris company is also financially supporting Bravat’s sect like they did to the Aurora society but Bravat is not UT’s pawn and they’re really working together, benefiting them both,
maybe Bravat is UT’s pawn in the current arc like Ryan once was (and this has to do with a new version of the BD project or something).
Anyway, we still need more hints for the current arc so this is just speculation (especially because it’s so easy to imagine UT as a lone wolf considering what we’ve seen of him so far) but I wouldn’t be surprised if UT had somehow gathered a group of people as eccentric as him or Bravat, to provide him with corpses or new ideas that he could use to reach his goal(s).
…Or to keep an eye on other people’s innovative ideas about cheating death.
Feel free to add your thoughts, it’s quite hard to try figuring out what in hell UT is doing. ^^”
I have two (very conflicting) theories about this. Either:
1. Undertaker is behaving like Thoth (not Osiris), but the Lords of the Stars are some of the eccentric bunch (Bravat could be another)… and Lord Sirius/real Ciel might have come up with calling it Osiris. Just like Funtom Corporation (a parent/umbrella company) has sister companies and shell corporations owned by the earl, I suspect that Lord Sirius has some “parent” umbrella company, sister companies, and shell corporations. Is Osiris the parent company? Probably not. The earl is probably correct that it’s some sort of shell…. Here’s the unlicensed version, since it’s handy, but “dummy” means the same thing as “shell”, and I think the licensed version actually says “shell”:
2. Victoria (or John Brown) controls Osiris, and it’s the queen’s hope to revive her husband (and cousin) Prince Albert….
I prefer theory number 1….
Thanks for your thougts, but from the moment the Osiris company has been foreshadowed to have a rather important role to play and the Osiris myth has symbolically a lot of similarities to what UT is tying to do with the BD project, I’d rather draw a comparison with Osiris and not Thoth. I know you made a post about this, but I disagree with your interpretation, sorry.
I also don’t think Lord Sirius has more importance than any of other 3 Lords + since Victoria is the one who put Ciel on the case (and she also gave him the list about the Lords invovled with the sect), thinking she directly has anything to do with the current arc doesn’t make sense to me (especially when UT was shown in ch120 in that weird panel and she was not).
Actually I was asked about that moment before but since the posts in question are long discussions I might as well sum things up for you. So about this scene:
There are two explanations in the fandom at the moment -> the 2CT and the two sons theory. As you can understand, in both theories there are two children involved and the fandom is thinking like that because of that panel mostly…
…Indicating that Vincent and Rachel apparently had at least two children (since these are Shinigami files, there are theories saying maybe it only shows dead people, meaning our Ciel could have more than just one sibling).
Unto the theories for your answer…
The 2CT
This Ciel in that scene is the real!Ciel and he is saying he doesn’t need fake brothers because he already has his twin brother (our!Ciel) whom he loves very much. Nothing particularly out of place when you know the two Ciels theory. 🙂
The two sons theory
This version explains that Ciel (our!Ciel, the MC of Kuroshitsuji) had an older brother who died when they were younger, or before he was even born (since Rachel had health problems + our Ciel as well, another child could have died during childhood because he was too sickly; also Vincent was rather old to become a dad for the time era when he had Ciel at 25 years old, which is why some people theorize he and Rachel had a child before they had Ciel).
In that theory, Vincent and Rachel mentioned their first son a lot to Ciel (so Ciel would know about his sibling even if he was dead), so as a young child, when Vincent mentions how he will get brothers at Weston, he goes rather grim by denying that he doesn’t need another brother even if his older sibling is dead.
Personally I prefer this explanation for two reasons:
If this is in relation to the 2CT, Vincent talks about real!Ciel getting another brother as if he’s dismissing the fact real!Ciel already has one (our!Ciel) and, considering the flashback of ch101 (which is without a doubt a memory of our!Ciel, the main character), Vincent looks rather affectionate as a dad, so this scene with the 2CT interpretation sounds a little bit OOC for him (my opinion, no one has to agree).
You said it, the Ciel in that scene is really grim-looking so I really don’t see, in the 2CT case, why he’d need to look so murderous considering his brother (our!Ciel) is alive and well and loved by his family (again, the flashback of ch101, which is our!Ciel’s memory, Vincent really appeared to be affectionate towards him). This is just… rather disproportionate as a reaction if the 2CT is correct and that bugs me…
I’m totally admitting that I’m not a fan of the 2CT for several reasons, but keeping a neutral point of view right now, I don’t find Vincent’s character or the child’s reaction to make a lot of sense with the 2CT explanation (logically speaking I mean, because of ch101 and the child being out of proportion), which is why I prefer the two sons theory as an explanation specifically for this scene.
I hope it helps Anon 🙂 And yeah I’m the same, I wish things could move on a little, mainly about the contract or about Ciel’s development as a character. But heh, that can’t be helped, we have to wait 😉
Have a nice day/evening Anon!
I’m adding to this as a firm believer in 2ct, so bear with me.
I don’t really see real!Ciel’s facial expression as being “murderous”, more just serious (even dire, ominous or foreboding disaster).
My biggest issue with this scene is the fact that Vincent is explaining the fag system to “Ciel”. Unless the earl (our!Ciel) had completely forgotten that conversation when he was little (and discussing it again with Sebastian at the end of the circus arc) by the time he entered Weston, Vincent must not have really explained it to him, too. So, is Vincent just explaining it to “Ciel”… or to both real!Ciel and our!Ciel? We are seeing this scene through the earl’s eyes, regardless of whether there are two boys or just one. So… Why does this have to be explained to the earl again in the Weston arc?
the timeline goes:
sometime before the attack on the Phantomhives, Rachel is ill, and Vincent gets Diedrich to help him prepare food for her. Vincent explains the fag system to “Ciel” as a little kid. Real!Ciel is there, and we are seeing this all through the earl’s eyes….
Kidnapping
Jack the Ripper/Red Butler
Curry/Yellow Butler
Noah’s Ark Circus – afterwards, the earl is sick and talks about the food for Rachel. In the flashback, he recalls about the fag system.
Phantomhive Murders
Campania/Luxury Liner
Weston/Public School – the earl needs the fag system explained to him (again?)
Green Witch
Blue Sect
Perhaps Yana-san wasn’t thinking about the fact that the fag system would have been explained way before”Ciel” attended Weston? This side chapter was written/published between the Green Witch arch and Blue Sect arc, even though it’s about something that happens just after the Noah’s Ark Circus arc… and has a flashback to something that happens before the action of the story. But then a major point of the flashback has to be explained again during the Weston arc? It’s confusing and just bugs me…. Regardless of 2ct or two brothers – or even just one son – the fag system shouldn’t have needed explanation in Weston if it was explained years ago….
I see your point but I’m not one to forget such details in the first place 😉 so let me add a few things :
You said it, this short story is Ciel telling Sebastian about what happened in the first place, meaning either he was the kid or (in the 2CT’s case) his twin told him the whole thing:
…Meaning our!Ciel, 2CT or not 2CT, knew about what Vincent “explained” about the fag system, period.
First of all, we know Ciel tends to forget things from the past (and it can’t be all explained by the 2CT if we want to remain logical), but in this particular case, why can’t you simply consider that our!Ciel just didn’t made the link between the school his father mentioned (whether to him or his twin) and Weston when Victoria asked him to investigate? There is nothing suspicious about not making the link even if he heard the name before (this short story happens at the time of the circus arc so I’m sure Ciel was focusing on something else when he arrived at Weston and that’s why he didn’t make the link).
After all the kid in this short story is 8 at best so there is basically five or six years between that short story and Weston, and besides…
Meaning that, while Ciel told Seb of that story, he clearly didn’t make the link between what he told Sebastian and Weston.
Weston might not be the only school with a fag system + Vincent didn’t exactly explain what the system was, just…
Which is a fairytale compared to how it was explained to Ciel during the Weston arc.
TL;DR You can support the 2CT explanation all you want for this scene, but I don’t find that there is any issue or plot hole.
Thanks again for your input 🙂
You’re welcome Anon 🙂
Well, I’m not one to say the 2CT doesn’t make sense, just that another explanation would fit better with my tastes and how I see the story, I just am not a fan of the Hidden Twin trope, often it ruins stories for me.
It actually looks like Yana-san has drawn Polaris as A and Vega as O. I say that because the proteins on Canopus can be seen on Sirius, and the proteins from Polaris can be seen on Sirius, too. Vega, on the other hand, is shown with a completely different look – it’s missing the “reactive” part of the protein:
It looks like either we had Polaris and Vega switched… or Yana-san has accidentally switched them. Types A and O are both quite common, so it’s easy to see how we could have switched the two in our theories.
Let me clarify: what we see on the surface of Vega is just that “stem”, just like what shows in the diagram above for type O. The part that’s missing is the little “knob” at the end of the stem that the others have. Therefore, Vega is Type O and Polaris is type A….
Ah thanks! You’re right, seen like that, it does seem more logical.
I guess that confirms it then: in that post I made a few months ago I was considering that Vega was O and Polaris A because Polaris was the major type in Kuro, and what you’re saying confirms it (so no I don’t think Yana switched anything and it’s logical to have Polaris as A if we follow the proportions).
Thanks again for your thoughts! 🙂
As a science major, when I first saw this chapter I was mind-blown. The ABO antigens actually look like this (image from Google)
So yes, what Yana-sensei has drawn is correct, and far more accurate than I would expect her (as someone who probably didn’t major in biology) to know even. This just raised my respect of her to yet another level.
Oooh thank you for the pic! 😀 I should have just googled it in the first place: it’s true it’s been a while for me and I didn’t remember the sugar difference at the terminus for each 🙂 (but it’s so obvious in the first place because of the antibodies in the plasma so I really want to kill myself for forgetting about the specificity >_<)
I have to admit, the amount of what Yana-sensei researched is very impressive and my respect for her just reached another level as well. Sensei is amazing!
Thank you again for your input! ^_^
may have been researching how they are portrayed in more “advanced” medicine, added her own little twist and then just went with that. In in of itself, that wouldn’t be a problem, but she chose a display which doesn’t have much difference between the cells, and since that panel was held almost completely in black, it made it harder to really discern the details. What she did, is basically make the whole thing more complicated for someone who either isn’t too keen on details or doesn’t really 2/4
know about hematology. Personally, I do say I would have preferred her to chose a more unique looking concept for each, in order for it to be “easier” to understand, but she probably wanted it to look more professional. Thinking about it, I think I might have seen blood type cells portrayed like she drew them, though they used different colours for the sticks, and for O it was only a simple stick, for A a nub which went to the left, for B to the right and for AB there was an A and a B stick ¾
on the cell. I was actually slightly bothered by the fact that she didn’t go with the right percentage based on the British population. O is the most common, A second, then B and last but not least, AB. She went with the Japanese population percentage as it seems for that one. Though, I find it nice that she goes a little deeper into it, even if she’s not completely nailing it, still, so kudos for effort. Also, I find it fun to finally know that I am indeed Canopus based on the star system. 4/4
If there’s something I wrote in a weird way, please say so, so that I can explain what I meant. Have a lovely weekend. 5/4
Hey Bio-Anon 🙂 Please don’t assume that I wouldn’t remember you when we had good discussions 😉 Thank you for seeing that post and sending your thoughts, and I think you should just check what @gvenevera just added for the antigenes part.
Also, about percentages, actually you might be slightly wrong: I made a post on the blood types a few months ago, and when I researched, I found A type is apparently the most common type while O type is second, which is why it was entirely logical for Polaris to be type A (as they have two days for the weekly collect because there are too many people) and for Vega to be type O.
Apparently the general consensus was otherwise though (but Polaris being A and Vega being O suited the “personality system”), as @abybweisse told me, but no matter, it has been fixed with this chapter 🙂
Thank you for passing by Bio-Anon! Yana-sensei really did her research!
midnight-in-town 