And as we all know, OC was extremely sickthe next morning and couldn’t go on the boating trip. Honey might have been in the milk, but I’m betting there was something else in the milk. A lot of poisons are sweet, and are only lethal in certain amounts.
And then, fast forward to much later–
Why wouldn’t he be coughing and unspeakably ill in such deplorable, utterly filthy conditions? He’s a sickly child, after all. With an Aunt who is a doctor with the best care he could have had he was often sick at home. After all the abuse he was subjected to in such a terrible place for MONTHS– no coughing? Nothing?
This is the first thing RCiel says to his brother. He scolds him for being outside in the rain and delivers this line. Theory: Real Ciel was hiding some dark, dark turmoil as a small child. From everyone, even his own family, his twin, and his dear butler. Likely he had a serious case of munchausen by proxy.
While RC may or may not be the mastermind behind everything, he had problems well before he became a bizarre doll.
While OC was later shown having asthma attacks, it very well could have been asthma induced by the poisons he was subjected to as a small child, between the ages of five, to ten. If he was indeed poisoned for five years it surely had some effect on his health and lungs– but it would not be as predictable and as simple to treat as an ordinary case of naturally inherited asthma.
Medically-wise, I have a few problems.
First of all, are you familiar with
MSbP? In any way other than just by reading about it on wikipedia? Because what you’re hinting at and what we see in the story definitely does not sound likeMSbP.
Second, there is no way to fake asthma in any way or form – my brother has asthma, I know what I’m talking about. A doctor should know the clear difference between pure asthma and poison.
Plus, I don’t think any type of poison could induce asthma…
I’m not one to go against theories, I love theories, no matter how dark and messed up they are, but the foundation of this theory…
Aren’t we trying too hard to make this child too evil?
If not MSbP, then something extremely similar to it. He feels he has a caretaker role to his brother. He also loves his brother.
Antisocial Personality Disorder / Sociopathy is also possible.
I didn’t claim OC was faking asthma, or his respiratory issues.
One of the first symptoms of poisoning (many, many different kinds of poisons) is heavy coughing, and permanent lung damage. It looks like asthma to even a modern doctor that has no reason to suspect a child is being poisoned, it can be misdiagnosed as such. Especially when asthma runs in the family.
Again, I don’t think RC is evil even if all this ends up being true.
Listen, in light of the newest Gintama spoilers, I have to say a few things about the kind of character that our Zura is. To sum up:
he’s a main part of Gintama’s comic relief because sometimes often he can act stupidly
he’s actually a terrorist
he’s got the weirdest pet/right hand man ever
Zurako makes for the perfect okama
But the best part is what the summary is actually hiding about who he really is:
As a fellow student of Shoyo, he never held anything against Gintoki for his choice to protect Shoyo’s legacy (his students) over Shoyo’s life
He even went as far as to tell Gintoki that he wouldn’t let him shoulder the burden of killing their teacher a second time, because he knew how harsh the first time was on his friend
He fell in love with a widow who lost her husband because of men like him (Jouishishi terrorists) but, instead of trying to convey his feelings to her, he’s just happy to spend time eating her ramen soba and looking out for her without asking for anything in exchange.
Despite being anti-bakufu, he admitted that he and the Shogun may still have common goals and decided to fulfill their mutual promise after Shigeshige’s death
Also despite being enemies for most of the series, he helped the Shinsengumi at their darkest hour because he recognized that they were necessary to his goal of saving the country
He has many nicknames, like the Noble Youth of Madness or Runaway Kotarou, but to quote Sakamoto: “in order to carry on his family line and to protect his comrades, he fought on and on as a coward. But […] if there was an enemy he had that he couldn’t beat unless he put everything on the line, then you might learn the true name of that man once he sheds his coward skin”
kinda random point but he’s damn wild when he fights seriously
in the current arc post time skip, he took on the burden of becoming Prime Minister (”Donald Zurump”), making tons of enemies and experiencing many assassination attempts, still in order to achieve his goal of saving his country
as a terrorist, he’s actually acknowledged to be even more dangerous than Takasugi
and finally
according to the newest spoilers, he’s confirmed to be the one who went as far as to disband the Shinsengumi SO THAT THEY WOULD WORK ON REUNITING THE YOROZUYA
I just realized that 3 out of the joui 4 have a Yato as (one of their) partner(s).
And then you’ve got Elizabeth.
@banana-that-dislikes-carrot awww, this is absolutely adorable because there must be a misunderstanding somewhere xDD
So either you don’t really know about Gintama and in that case, when I’m talking about Elizabeth, I don’t mean Lizzie from Kuro
but rather Zura’s partner…
Or you know about Gintama, know who Elizabeth is but you haven’t caught up in a while and don’t know/don’t remember about his true identity…
So either way Elizabeth in Gintama is a he and definitely not a Yato. ❤
“Yato” is a species of warriors who are said to be the strongest of all universe in Gintama…
However what I meant was that even if Eli who follows Zura is not a Yato, he’s not less amazing than Mutsu, Kagura or Kamui (who are the 3 Yato warriors following respectively Sakamoto, Gin-chan and Takasugi).
tl;dr I love two Elizabeths from manga series, one is a girl from Kuroshitsuji whose nickname is Lizzie, the other is a space alien from Gintama whose nickname is Eli, but in the op I was talking about the latter :))))
I just realized that 3 out of the joui 4 have a Yato as (one of their) partner(s).
And then you’ve got Elizabeth.
For me as well @allodoxaph0bia! Sakamoto and Mutsu are not as recurring as other characters in the series, but I just love them for having such an odd dynamic and way to have come together.
This arc just gave me many ??? about the Yato species though, because we don’t really have a lot of facts about them, despite having met quite a lot of them for an almost extinct race.
So I’d love to know more about any sort of hierarchy or things related to that, because we know they were united for the most part (since we faced them in the first part of the silver soul arc) and yet many famous Yato warriors left the main tribe long ago (Umibouzu left to have his family with Kouka, Mutsu’s dad created the Chidori pirates and Hosen became the Night King of Yoshiwara).
In general, that’s why I find Mutsu kinda stands out the same way Umibouzu and his kids do, but for Mutsu in particular, between her nickname and the fact that she ended walking on a completely different path from her father’s, she makes for even more of an oddity to me.
And let’s not mention that Umibouzu was a friend of her dad, but he and Mutsu are still on good terms today, while Kagura is like Gin’s adopted daughter, when Gin is Sakamoto’s old friend. IDK I just love all the ties. 😀
Best part gotta be how Sakamoto has no idea who Yato warriors are even if he’s well aware of how super strong and reliable his vice captain is. xD
…that with Lizzie now back, we may finally be able to witness some interactions between her and the Undertaker (it’s been 27+ volumes…).
And it’s important because we know that UT cares about “the Phantomhive family”…
but we don’t know who that represents exactly.
He mentioned Vincent…
and the twins…
but we don’t know if he’d want to bring Frances and possibly her children back from the dead too, should something happen to them.
That’s why finding out about if UT includes Frances’ side of the family in the people he’d rather not lose is important, because that’d give hints about his possible identity, as well as his state of mind.
I talked about this before, but the way UT instantly declared that he liked the twins because “they’re both Phantomhives as regards [him]” in ch131 is… hard to take at face-value because:
if UT is Cedric K. Ros, then the twins are his grandkids so him instantly caring is logical and there is nothing else to say
if UT isn’t Cedric K. Ros tho’, then he automatically validated the twins “because they’re Phantomhives”, which means only because he loved Claudia or happened to find Vincent an enjoyable guy + which implies that, whatever the twins are like as their own person, he gives 0 care about and that’s meh. ://
Personally, I like to think that at least ch84…
…is enough to say that UT does see our!Ciel as a person different from his father and grandmother, but then there is ch35 which could be seen (in extreme cases) as a hint of the opposite…
so I’d like to know which one it is for sure: does UT care just because of Claudia, or does he care because he has a soft spot for all of them (whether he’s Cedric K. Ros or not)?
Hence me being really eager to see how UT acts with Lizzie, because it should be an indicator as to whether he cares or not about the Midfords and…
Should he care about Frances’ side of the family, it also implies that he should see Vincent and the twins as their own person and not as proxies for Claudia, which is a good thing (+ you can take this as another hint for the UT = Cedric theory).
Should he not care, well, I think that rules out the UT = Cedric theory + it’d also imply that UT’s attachment to the P family could just be all about Claudia and seeing proxies for her through her son and grandsons, which is… not good or healthy.
Sensei said before that UT was no villain despite the appearances, which I think is meant regarding our!Ciel’s character more than Seb’s. Nonetheless I think that it makes more likely the version that he cares and sees Claudia’s family (including Frances, Liz and Ed) as enjoyable people for different reasons.
I’d just like an official confirmation about this, since it’s a subject of debate,
as well as a big answer about UT’s characterization and a good clue about if he’ll stay in the narrative for a little while longer or not.
One last thing: whether UT cares about Frances’ side of the family or not doesn’t change the fact that he’s a selfish a**hole who should find a better way to cope about things. Sensei implied he was no villain but that doesn’t mean he’s free of guilt or that he shouldn’t change his ways.
Because UT is completely wrong about bringing back the dead thinking it will change everything about how he or Lizzie or our!Ciel feel. It’s just that also caring about Frances and her kids may just give him better odds at realizing that he messed up.
And, to add onto what I already answered you @mourninglockets, the other reason I like the idea that UT actually cares about Frances and her kids isthat the harder redemption is, the better character development will turn out to be.
Think about it, since UT is no villain, that means he’ll have to find a way to make it up to the people he cares about and whom he hurts, that is if he ever realizes that he was 100% wrong.
However, assuming he does, Ciel alone is not really a challenge in that aspect, because Ciel showed that even after the Campania and Weston arcs he still trusted the Undertaker (probably because he could guess with the lockets that UT had a special link to his family).
That’s why, should UT also care about Frances’ side of the family, that means he’d have to make it up to them too and that’s where it gets harder, not so much as far as Liz and Ed are concerned, but I doubt Frances would forgive him easily (Cedric K. Ros or not).
That’s why I favor this stance between the two. So far it seems UT really stays around because there are still Phantomhives to watch over.
So because he did some crazy shit during three arcs, if he claims to care about the Phantomhive family (even if just because of Claudia), then he’d better find a way to make it up to them properly.
He’ll just be more dedicated to doing it right for everyone if he cares about/stays and intends to protect more than just our!Ciel in my opinion, that’s all. 🙂
As follow up to my previous theory, but on a slightly different tangent, I felt it warranted its own post.
On with the show…
Mephisto did create the “perfect” host. To a degree, anyway, and well enough to fool all of the rulers of Gehenna. I know people are loathe to admit he knows all, but let’s face it, he does. Or at least, enough to shape the future to his liking.
He proved with Amamion that manufacturing Kings’ hosts could be done – granted, only if they were lower in rank. He then proved they were “close” to higher ranking Kings hosts with Goro being possessed by Satan long enough to sire children, since Satan had been trailing after Yuri her whole life and had attachments to Shiro.
He knew it was going to happen at some point and that it would the start of final years before his opus would be known.
So, that leaves us with a dilemma. Why was there no in-between? No host for Astaroth, Egyn or Iblis if that would be the scientific way to progress: one King higher each success.
Simple. There was never meant to be a steady flow of successes, and Goro wasn’t a fluke. Who would make better host bodies for potential usurpers that could attempt to overthrow someone who wants to be King of All?
My theory, to go along side the previous, is that Samael had found a manner of cloning that worked to an extent, whether in the main timeline or a different one, to make sure it would never be discovered, and Goro was the result of those techniques. He was then used as “live” bait to lure Satan into Assiah for Lucifer’s benefit on every level, and to his own. He needed to have what he knew was the budding of Gehenna’s ego, an entity stronger than him, to gain a tangible form on a plane of existence where he had the best advantage.
Satan manifesting in an experimental body would have been enough to ensure that Lucifer would want to continue after Section 13 closed, but in his own manner [Elixirs] leaving Samael to set the last few pieces into place without catering to his brother any further and having given him his own army.
Enter Shiemi and Nemu housing dormant Sol.
Nobody would expect beings potentially higher than the Ba’al to already be within vessels when the lesser Kings weren’t. Again, apart from Amaimon, and even then, simply so he could be used to swing the balance of high-level players into Mephisto’s favor with his debt and as a legitimate stepping stone in cloning.
Furthermore, we’ve not seen any King at full power, but we have witnessed Rin’s burn-out and rebirth, Amaimon overtaxing his host, and Shiemi sustaining damages. That proves any full-on power will destroy a human body, regardless of how well it was created, even for the super-elite.
I think it’s also a safety switch Mephisto planned on fully taking advantage of to become supreme ruler.
Shemihaza and Armumahel have to remain dormant so they can come back to as a surprise attack, but also so they don’t prematurely destroy their host bodies with overuse or need to crystalise again before the final showdown.
But the thing is, I don’t think they’re meant to crystalise again or that he truly cares for them as allies. They’re a means to an end.
Perhaps the Sol being dormant within key players allows them to be reintroduced with the knowledge he has fed the Esquires – and subsequently their hosts – so they can assesses what needs to be done before they can return to their “rest.” Mephisto would be controlling what information is given at all time and paint the picture he wants them to see with all evidence in this plane corroborating it.
And that leaves us with Samael. He’s been gaming them all from the very get go. As Time, he would know everything that happens at any point to some degree, so thousands of years in the past – the moment he was incarnated – he already knew the paths the future could take and what to try to make happen to attain ultimate power. He, out of all the demons, has the luxury to wait until the right moment. Yes, he indulged himself, like all of the others, but you know what they say about all work and no play. He is a demon as he so likes to point out, hedonistic, power-hungry, and amoral to a fault.
That includes his siding with Shemihaza, Armumhel, and Azazel.
I think Mephisto wants to kill them all… or at least the demons higher than him.
Even if Shiemi/Shemihaza and Nemu/Arumahel manage not to get destroyed when initially using their powers, that won’t last.
Just imagine Satan, Lucifer, Armumahel, and Shemihaza all burning out their hosts in a war, having no back-ups, becoming concepts again with no way to attain form. More final yet: being obliterated. A battle like that would require hearts and tails being out. End game. Take them all out in one fell swoop.
With potentially having made close to “perfect” hosts, by staying in the same body, he’s putting on a show and also giving himself a chance to burn it out in the near future. His back up host is either Shura, as a short term if his current form doesn’t make it to the last battle (as I’ve stated here and @rottenprincessshura stated here ), but honestly, the last host I think he’s aiming for is Rin.
There is no immortal body, or perfect host, other than one preserved Time, and Rin’s is the closest there is to perfection as a full demon in living in Assiah.
Mephisto would be the strongest demon left and possess Satan’s flames via Rin.
My theory of Mephisto’s end-game isn’t anything new, just crack theory on his long con.
I agree with this. I really feel that Mephisto wants to rule over all of Assiah and Gehenna…and will stay in Assiah. He won’t kill humanity because he is a concept created by humanity. Having humans believe in him…gives him power and adoration he craves. He’s carefully planning the complete take-down of his competition. All the exwires are indeed pawns chosen by Mephisto to advance his plans and he’s meddled in their lives accordingly. Of course Mephisto has access to the best technology, and scientific innovation. He can go anywhere in time to find the information he needs for success. Shura seems to be the only person brave enough to confront him, and it drives hims nuts because he can’t eliminate her. He needs her–her pawn is still in play. Shura is pretty much powerless against Mephisto. The only thing she could do to save Rin would be to martyr herself when Mephisto possessed her. Like Shiro did with Satan. Another theory…maybe Shura takes the elixir and keeps Mephisto to save Rin. (god…i don’t like either one of those options for Shura.) Deep down I’m hoping something in Mephisto changes and that he reconsiders!
midnight-in-town 