that the skeleton on UT’s scythe isn’t a part of its original design. Assuming this isn’t a mistake on Sensei’s part or a random skeleton, the question is whose skeleton is it?
The thing is, personally I used to consider possibly Claudia Phantomhive’s, because of the thorns and because of the cover of ch54…
…UT should have also found a way to preserve their bodies from deteriorating (which is possibly why he already knew how to salvage the twin’s body 4 years ago), which doesn’t make it likely for the skeleton on his scythe to be Claudia’s in that case.
However, we know there is someone else that UT cares about, but unlike the twin and possibly the people represented by his lockets, UT can’t bring him back because…
his body got too damaged.
So on the scale of one to ten, how unsettling would it be to consider that UT possibly added Vincent’s skeleton to his scythe so that Vincent will always “be with him”, because unfortunately UT can’t bring him back
as a bizarre doll, like everyone else who matters?
As I said, 100% crack theory, but I always found weird that UT didn’t have/make a funeral locket for Vincent when he seemed to care so much, so the people represented by the lockets must be different from Vincent in some ways.
Maybe that’s because they can be brought back when he can’t…
…and that’s why UT didn’t want to leave what was left of Vincent rest in a grave forever so he added a part of his skeleton to his death scythe.
EDIT: for those who wonder about UT’s words in ch105
“A woman can preach. A woman can work. A woman can fight. A woman can build, can rule, can conquer, can destroy just as much as a man can.” – Zoe Saldana
as an accomplice to the serial killings committed in the name of the blue star (real!Ciel) who Scotland Yard believes is our!Ciel for now.
Seb will most likely go down the same way too, as an accomplice of our!Ciel, just saying.
I’m not sure Bravat will be helpful to either our!Ciel or Seb though. Clearly he’s a fanatic…
…so going down for the sake of real!Ciel’s radiance and freedom could be something he’s quite proud of/okay with.
The only way for Bravat to somehow become useful would be if he believes that UT and real!Ciel are supposed to get him out of prison and they don’t, which is likely to happen since neither probably cares about him (he seems to be Ryan 2.0 as far as UT is concerned).
Until then though, I doubt even Seb will manage to scare him into talking considering that he already knows about Seb being a demon and he seemed not to give a damn. I could be wrong though. 🙂
TL;DR yes, prison for Bravat too, but either he’s not expecting to stay forever because UT and real!Ciel are supposed to get him back, or he’s going down happy because he’s been useful to his star lords (real!Ciel and whoever the rest of them are) and that’s all that matters to him.
Hi Anon, no worries your English is great! And actually I already explained here.
To make this simple: Amaimon is neutral in the big Order vs Illuminati conflict, he’s just helping Mephisto with some stuff because he owes him (most likely because of his current vessel)…
…but he doesn’t care about whose side ends up winning.
Meanwhile, this is his reaction to Shiemi:
and to Mephisto once he confronted him about finally realizing about Shiemi’s powers:
So Amaimon’s anger in the scene above is not related to Shiemi but to Mephisto: he’s mad that Mephisto didn’t tell him sooner about Shiemi + he’s most likely also mad about the fact that Mephisto definitely intends on making him choose a side in this conflict (”you have little free time left”), despite the fact that Amaimon considers himself neutral.
And what conclusion does this lead you to? Amaimon wanted to stay neutral but now that he has realized about Shiemi’s powers, he knows that he won’t be able to just be an observer => so whoever Shiemi is, she’s basically the chain now locking Amaimon on the Order’s side.
I’m pretty sure you’re aware of all the theories about Shiemi and Shemihaza and it’s actually not very surprising to imagine a link between them and Amaimon who’s the King of Earth, especially when Shemihaza’s symbol is…
and Shiemi used to mention something called “the Garden of Amahara”.
Both Shemihaza and Amaimon come from Gehenna, we don’t know what kind of link they might have, but it could be that they’re pals or linked in some ways. And if that’s the case, then Shiemi being related to Shemihaza (being their host or nephilim) would mean that Amaimon’d have to keep an eye on her (either because that’s important to him or because he has no choice in the matter).
So I really don’t think Amaimon is in to hurt Shiemi: he already kicked her during the fight against Yukio & Satan, so we know he should give 0 care and yet now he’s angry after realizing who she is. To me that implies he’s clearly going to (have to) change his way of behaving towards her, whatever the reason is.
Also, I have to say this: the current arc is rather complicated and the main trio Rin/Shiemi/Yukio got blasted into three different directions (Yukio & Illuminati, Rin & the past, Shiemi & the Grigori). That’s why, before they can all meet again, they’ll first need the help of other characters and we may end up with Amaimon being quite relevant to Shiemi’s personal arc before the others catch up.
I hope this makes sense, please read the post I linked to, it may have additional explanations! Have a nice day Anon. :))
ok but freaking out because kusanagi casually put in yona havinG HER PERIOD AND STATED THAT IT WASN’T SOMETHING TO BE ASHAMED ABOUT AND I’M ALSO ALL HERE FOR GIRLS HELPING GIRLS. I’VE NEVER SEEN THIS IN A MANGA/ANIME HOLY SHIT
Hey Anon! And yep, from the moment a demon who shape-shifted into idk how many animals…
can have intercourse with humans
then Shinigamis who originally are humans should be able to as well. 🙂
As for the “but they’re dead” part, well yeah, but we don’t know exactly what their condition is (I’ll elaborate below) and furthermore, they have primary needs like sleeping and eating so why not other needs?
It’s kinda illustrated by Grell having the hots for several guys so far or even Ronald with most women actually, so to me it seems Shinigamis can feel attraction towards humans, which means they can surely be aroused and seek physical intimacy as a result.
Being able to have sex =/= being able to have kids: that’s a different debate.
Just in case you were asking with this in mind though, I want to precise that personally I think it’s possible for Shinigamis to have kids (so for example, I believe that the UT = Cedric theory is a possibility) because the Shinigamis aren’t exactly “dead”, the way final death is meant to be in Kuroshitsuji.
A human being is defined by two parts: their cinematic record and their soul. When they die, the CR is stopped by Shinigamis and to remain in the body, while the soul is collected. That’s what it means to be dead in Kuroshitsuji.
Now, if you look at UT’s bizarre dolls that are basically undead: they have no soul (because it was collected when they died and UT can’t make one from scratch), but they have edited cinematic records which is what makes the corpse mistakenly think it’s still alive.
As for Shinigamis, well that’s the thing: we know they killed themselves so they should be dead…
but it seems they still have their soul and an unstopped cinematic record (otherwise how could they still move, think and feel?), in spite of their peculiar eyes or their ability to teleport, amongst other supernatural things.
Furthermore…
…clearly they can actually die for real again if they’re hit by a death scythe (a death scythe being used to stop a CR and collect the soul, which is why I think they still have both).
Becoming a Shinigami is a punishment to humans who took their own life so maybe they’re not exactly “dead”. Maybe, similarly to how some humans can be “judged worthy to keep on living” by Shinigamis when they’re fated to die, Shinigamis are special cases of “(not really) dead people”.
All that to say, if they’re not exactly dead, then why wouldn’t they be able to have kids? Don’t get me wrong, we know they have superiors who are most likely scaring the shit out of them and as such, rules to follow were mentioned like…
…because Shinigamis are supposed to be “neutral between Gods and humans”, meaning they’re not supposed to be meddling with humans and have kids with them (or with other Shinigamis I suppose).
As far as UT is concerned though, clearly he fails at being a Shinigami, so him having kids (the UT = Cedric theory) would just be one more broken rule to add to his record. No biggie.
TL;DR yes, Shinigamis can most likely have sex with humans and with other Shinigamis.
And from the moment they’re scared to die if stabbed by a death scythe, they might not be exactly dead the way other humans who don’t kill themselves are dead, so they might be able to have kids with humans or other Shinigamis, even though it is very probably 100% forbidden (since they are forbidden from meddling with life, death and humans).
I hope it answers your question Anon, sorry for the length! As with everything, it’s just my opinion, no one has to agree!
Have a nice day. :))
Hi Anon! Ah, I should have bet that I’d receive this question. xD
Moving on, honestly I don’t know and since Sensei said that she wouldn’t delve into Kuroverse’s demonology
indeed, I’m not sure we have anything to discuss this possibility. ://
The thing is, it’s easier to consider the idea between humans and Shinigamis because Shinigamis are initially humans + because there is the matter of the Phantomhive lineage…
And, without rambling about where it might come from (in my opinion it’s unrelated to whoever Cedric K. Ros is), it has to come from something (a curse?) or someone (an ancestor?) supernatural at the very least.
So the boundaries between humans and the supernatural side of Kuroverse are seemingly thin, but at least Shinigamis and humans are technically the same species, which makes it more legit if Sensei confirms that they can make kids.
When it comes to demons, it seems less likely, because demons can only take on a human appearance + it’s not like they hold humans in a very high regard. I mean, Sensei said before that Seb basically sees humans as insects (or food in Ciel’s case), so to seduce his preys (like Beast for example) to get what he wants (like information) is different from actually being able to reproduce.
Of course maybe not all demons are like him (about seeing humans as inferior), but since it’s likely we’ll never find out… The only way to be sure would be for Sensei to eventually mention it randomly. You know, like with curses…
…or even once Sensei explains what the Phantomhive lineage is all about later.
So, I’m sorry Anon, but I have no clue. Maybe, maybe not. As long as Sensei doesn’t hint at anything though, you’re free to consider what you want, just like for the debate about whether or not Shinigamis can have kids with humans!
Thanks for reading and have a nice day! :))
Hey Anon and nope! At least not in my opinion because, even if it turns out that Shinigamis and humans can make babies, that doesn’t confirm anything as far as Claudia and UT are concerned.
We know that UT apparently cared about Claudia and there is a good probability that there was actually a romantic side to it from his point of view, but we don’t know for sure + we can’t say anything about Claudia’s own feelings.
That’s why we need to know the Undertaker’s real name. Cedric K. Ros– was indicated
(in the Shinigami files)
to be Vincent’s father and Sensei confirmed before that he and Frances had the same parents, so what we need to know is if he and UT are the same person.
If Sensei ever says that UT is Cedric before saying anything about possible human + shinigami babies tho’, then it will confirm both ideas at the same time!
I hope this makes sense. Have a nice day Anon. :))
Hey Anon! And yep, from the moment a demon who shape-shifted into idk how many animals…
can have intercourse with humans
then Shinigamis who originally are humans should be able to as well. 🙂
As for the “but they’re dead” part, well yeah, but we don’t know exactly what their condition is (I’ll elaborate below) and furthermore, they have primary needs like sleeping and eating so why not other needs?
It’s kinda illustrated by Grell having the hots for several guys so far or even Ronald with most women actually, so to me it seems Shinigamis can feel attraction towards humans, which means they can surely be aroused and seek physical intimacy as a result.
Being able to have sex =/= being able to have kids: that’s a different debate.
Just in case you were asking with this in mind though, I want to precise that personally I think it’s possible for Shinigamis to have kids (so for example, I believe that the UT = Cedric theory is a possibility) because the Shinigamis aren’t exactly “dead”, the way final death is meant to be in Kuroshitsuji.
A human being is defined by two parts: their cinematic record and their soul. When they die, the CR is stopped by Shinigamis and to remain in the body, while the soul is collected. That’s what it means to be dead in Kuroshitsuji.
Now, if you look at UT’s bizarre dolls that are basically undead: they have no soul (because it was collected when they died and UT can’t make one from scratch), but they have edited cinematic records which is what makes the corpse mistakenly think it’s still alive.
As for Shinigamis, well that’s the thing: we know they killed themselves so they should be dead…
but it seems they still have their soul and an unstopped cinematic record (otherwise how could they still move, think and feel?), in spite of their peculiar eyes or their ability to teleport, amongst other supernatural things.
Furthermore…
…clearly they can actually die for real again if they’re hit by a death scythe (a death scythe being used to stop a CR and collect the soul, which is why I think they still have both).
Becoming a Shinigami is a punishment to humans who took their own life so maybe they’re not exactly “dead”. Maybe, similarly to how some humans can be “judged worthy to keep on living” by Shinigamis when they’re fated to die, Shinigamis are special cases of “(not really) dead people”.
All that to say, if they’re not exactly dead, then why wouldn’t they be able to have kids? Don’t get me wrong, we know they have superiors who are most likely scaring the shit out of them and as such, rules to follow were mentioned like…
…because Shinigamis are supposed to be “neutral between Gods and humans”, meaning they’re not supposed to be meddling with humans and have kids with them (or with other Shinigamis I suppose).
As far as UT is concerned though, clearly he fails at being a Shinigami, so him having kids (the UT = Cedric theory) would just be one more broken rule to add to his record. No biggie.
TL;DR yes, Shinigamis can most likely have sex with humans and with other Shinigamis.
And from the moment they’re scared to die if stabbed by a death scythe, they might not be exactly dead the way other humans who don’t kill themselves are dead, so they might be able to have kids with humans or other Shinigamis, even though it is very probably 100% forbidden (since they are forbidden from meddling with life, death and humans).
I hope it answers your question Anon, sorry for the length! As with everything, it’s just my opinion, no one has to agree!
Have a nice day. :))
An excellent question Anon. 🙂 But I think the answer is as simple as “because his scars aren’t the result of a death scythe”, so he’s still… well, not dead. xD
Since Shinigamis aren’t exactly humans anymore (their eyes that can see what human eyes can’t, the fact they can teleport, etc), it’s likely that they can die again for real only if they’re stabbed with a death scythe. As such, normal blades or guns shouldn’t work on them.
So in the case of UT’s scars, since Sensei confirmed that he apparently got them after his desertion, it most likely has nothing to do with a death scythe (otherwise you’re right, he would have died from his head not being on his shoulder anymore).
The ??? part about UT’s scars is that they’re literally everywhere on his body so it’s hard to be sure of how he could have gotten them. Hence the many theories:
he was tortured by humans after his desertion (somehow), who freaked out when they realized he wouldn’t die and that’s how he ended up with so many scars
it’s a symbolic representation of his link to the Phantomhive family (since they’re mostly represented by roses and thorns) and we’re not supposed to bother about how he got them
it’s a way for Sensei to introduce an equivalent to the “Thorns of death” from the second musical in the manga. To quote from the wiki: “The Thorns are contracted when a soul destined to die becomes vengeful and fight against the Grim Reapers that would reap it; it would manifest into the form of thorns, which will eventually suffocate the heart.”
Can’t say I have any clue to be honest Anon, except that I really doubt UT’s scars are the result of a death scythe, even if I could be totally wrong. :))
In my personal idea of a timeline about UT though, I tend to think it’s more likely to have happened around or after the time of Claudia’s death (for several reasons but it would be too long to explain now). I also think it’s fair to imagine that one day we’ll find out about how he got them and it will be… bloody to say the least. ://
I hope it answers your question! Thanks for reading and have a nice day :))
midnight-in-town 