I talked about this, briefly, via an ask on my old account and then immediately deleted it. At the time, I just wasn’t in the mood to bring up and fan what was rapidly becoming a big sore spot for many in the fandom. I disagree with the idea that she’s become a “”reduced”” character for many reasons, but I think one of the major contributing factors to what upset people might just be because in 300+ chapters, some little bits and pieces of Touka’s character might’ve been missed or forgotten.
That being said, I’d be remiss if I didn’t acknowledge that media doesn’t exist in a vacuum and I’m not striving to argue whether or not Touka’s character was treated well as much as I want to talk about her. She’s my favorite character, after all, and the primary reason I got into TG all those years ago.
So call this a Character Study, if you will.
TL;DR: Touka got exactly the ending she was striving for
The heart, the core, of Lizzie’s dilemma all revolves around one thing.
Love.
She believed herself to be in love with real!Ciel, yet she was fooled by our!Ciel. This leads to question the validity of her feelings and love. How could she love someone and not see he was the not the one who returned to her? That’s the question burning in her mind.
Since his return, she has grown closer to our!Ciel and loves him, yet he lied to her. She now questions all their interactions and everything he has ever said to her. She cannot trust him and thus cannot trust her feelings.
Her confusion right now really is one of the heart.
@shinigami-mistress While I agree with all of the points you made, I believe that Lizzy’s main dilemma in this arc is going to be choosing between love and duty.
Lizzy’s relationship with O!Ciel was one that was based on love. She always showered him with affection and did her best to make him happy. And she did all this not because she thought it was her duty to do so as his fiance, but because she loved him.
Her relationship with R!Ciel on the other hand, was based on duty. Lizzy was trained since she was young to protect R!Ciel, so when she learned the truth about O!Ciel she immediately sided with him. She felt like it was her duty to do so, as his fiance and because she had already failed him before.
And now Lizzy has to choose, between her love for O!Ciel that turned out to be lie, and the sense of duty she felt toward R!Ciel that lead to many deaths and O!Ciel being accused of a crime that he didn’t commit.
my Ao no Exorcist 2019 calendar is finally here!~✨🌸 looooooove these all! especially the golden trio one, the one of all the girls and the group illustrations I’m veeeery fond of!
“The sun will rise. Mikasa will support Eren.” It’s been the truth of the shingeki world for 109 chapters. Mikasa has disagreed with Eren plenty. There’s nothing new in that. But potentially withdrawing her support is ground breaking. It’s the sort of character development many of us have wanted, myself included.
Whatever happens I don’t want it to be forever. Life is too short (literally) for Eren, Armin and Mikasa to permanently part ways. But for now I’m very excited for this development.
I do actually have a headcanon for this! It’s completely far-fetched but I like the idea regardless.
Crack theory: Edward would occasionally sit alongside OC whilst RC and Lizzy played outside. Though OC was a lot younger than Edward, he was mature for his age (quiet, interested in reading, etc) and they got along. Because of this OC was probably Edward’s “favorite” out of the two twins.
It’s a little silly, but my main reason for considering this was due to OC’s reaction in CH73 when Edward grabbed his hand, prompting the thought that OC was remembering the closer relationship they used to have in the past (because of his shocked reaction).
OC is quite evidently shocked because Edward had correctly guessed his reason for being at Weston, but I want to be deluded and pretend there is a secondary meaning. Above all, the use of hand imagery seemed familiar to me since Yana usually uses it to symbolize kinship:
The above is from CH93 but see also CH93, CH60, CH63 and CH96.
But then it is broken away, so this could reflect the change in their relationship? Haha, but you know what they say about making large assumptions from small amounts of data (it is a bad idea).
There’s also the fact that we’ve never seen Edward outside with RC and Lizzy, even though you’d imagine he was visiting alongside her sometimes? So perhaps he was inside with OC at times, he seems like the type to prefer those kind of indoor activities since he is not naturally great at sports + was older.
His “ordinary” status does similar to the position OC found himself in as a child too, I could see them getting along in some way! It’d be an interesting contrast to OC’s relationship with Edward now, though perhaps totally unnecessary since we’ve had so many reveals already.
However, this is a complete reach that is levels above the “absurdity” that people saw in the 2CT. I doubt it’s true! Fun to imagine though.
Btw you know how clearly the current arc In GK is setting up to a Sugimoto vs Ogata confrontation when they’re to meet again and whether Sugimoto will really end up killing him or not?
Well I think that’s all about the current arc as far as Sugimoto is concerned.
When it comes to Kiro, even though Sugimoto said he’d kill both him and Ogata there is literally no build up particular to that in the arc, especially when Kiro wasn’t even for shooting Sugimoto along with Wilk in the first place.
You know who could be set up to confront Kiro though? Tanigaki.
Even though Tanigaki isn’t into killing as much as the others ever since the arc with Nihei, it turns out that Kiro kinda stabbed the woman he loves + he took Asirpa away so ehhhhh not saying Tanigaki would kill him, but being the one to confront him would make more sense than Sugimoto as far as the arc went till now.
Just some thoughts. :))
You raised a terribly interesting point. I admit I had wondered why Tanigaki felt the need to tag along because the excuse was rather poor.
Sure, Sugimoto wasn’t well RIGHT THEN, but by the time they reach Karafuto Sugimoto is fine enough he can take part to the stenka.
All right, if he get punched too much he loses control but nobody knew about it right then.
Sugimoto doesn’t really need Tanigaki to play babysitter… so it felt weird he felt the need to tag along, especially considering Tanigaki isn’t THAT close to Asirpa…
…but at the time I didn’t really remembered that Tanigaki is also this guy… who left his family to avenge his sister…
Of course it backfires on him terribly, causing him the loss of his mother as well… but he pursues in his purpose anyway…
Until his great plan to get revenge was completely twarted by the mere fact he was hugely misguided in it..
…and he ended up like this…
Tanigaki had been then healed by Nihei, Huci and Osoma but there’s really to wonder if Tanigaki will try again to avenge a person he loves as he wanted to do with his sister, slipping up in the same mistake which caused everything that went wrong in his life the first time.
In a way he’s already risking it… as he left Inkarmat alone as he did with his mother. It’s also worth pointing out that although Kiroranke threatened Inkarmat with his knife he didn’t mean to stab her and actually it’s possible she was the one who did herself the most harm as the way she’s holding the knife suggests that in fear Kiro could take it away she’s pushing it inside herself.
Kiro is a man with a purpose and willing to die for it. Probably, even if Tanigaki were to kill him, he wouldn’t have much to regret.
So, honestly, I’m curious.
Is Tanigaki going to make the same mistake again and trying to extract a revenge that won’t help him any and might even damage him?
Or, like many characters in Golden Kamuy, he’s going to evolve and become someone different?
You made me really curious about it, I can’t wait to see what Tanigaki will do when he’ll confront Kiro!
Thank you for raising such an interesting point to ponder!
I always thought Tanigaki’s major driving force to join them was to get
revenge for Kiro stabbing Inkarmat. It has been highlighted it is hard
to tell if he actually intended to stab her or if she made it worse. Tanigaki may have partially healed via Nihei/Huci/Osoma but the fact he still haven’t gone home when he should have means something else is driving him … .
The rest of his reasoning is weak unless he knows more about Tsukishima
and Koito than we as readers know but Tanigaki seems to lack the ability to read people as well as some of the others. As I’ve said, I think Inkarmat drove the knife in deeper due to her strong belief that Kiro would kill her as a self-fulfilling move …
I was so willing to believe Tanigaki was past his ‘I’ll get revenge’ period I assumed Inkarmat might be a factor in his decision but I merely thought he wanted to stop Kiroranke in her place because he felt guilty he hadn’t given her warning the proper attention.
On a second though however what pushed Tanigaki to go with Sugimoto might have been more than that.
Yes, undoubtedly the fact Tanigaki isn’t returning home hints at something… but I was hoping it was just he was still ashamed for what he did and that he sort of learnt the lesson… not that he was going to slip into it again.
Tanigaki couldn’t be moved in his action by something he knew about Tsukishima and Koito as they’re selected to go with Sugimoto after Tanigaki volunteered and Koito clearly had no idea he would be sent with Sugimoto and even asked why.
In regards to Koito I tend to believe Kiro didn’t want to stab Inkarmat, just to scare her.
When the stabbing takes place he says he didn’t mean it and looks surprised.
In such situation he would have no reason to lie. If he wanted to stab her I would have expected him to say something like, ‘served you right’ and not something like ‘wait, I didn’t mean to stab…’.
Inkarmat wanted to much to make him a culprit, wanted so badly to prove he was guilty and she also claimed more than once she was ready to die for this I think she ended up on causing her own stabbing.
After all I had wondered what she had in mind here (Chap 116)…
The answer might be in the following chap 117
She expected Kiro to come after her. Actually once the truth about her suspicions was out she she wasn’t more of a threat than any one else, actually even less than the others as there was actually little she could do to stop him… so why would Kiro have to kill her?
Actually it seems what she’s doing is taking advantage of Tanigaki again to push him to kill Kiro should something happen to her. She’s very driven into proving Kiro is guilty and, I guess, seeing he was involved in Wilk’s death only made the whole matter worse.
Thanks for your input, @goldenkamuyhunting and @chibivesicle! However, I can’t agree that Inkarmat purposely caused her own stabbing or that she used that to manipulate Tanigaki into going after Kiro.
Tanigaki leaving is presented as being related to Asirpa. My point was just that once they’ll see each other again, Tanigaki might remember that the guy who took Asirpa away is also the guy who stabbed the woman he loves.
I’m aware that Chibi in particular distrusts Inkarmat (I do remember your post on the subject), but in my opinion we saw a genuine gradual change of her character until the Abashiri arc and Kiro remains the one who ended up having Wilk shot and taking Asirpa away anyway.
I do agree that Kiro clearly only meant to threaten her but her stabbing herself on purpose and manipulating Tanigaki to go kill Kiro doesn’t make sense with her character development. At least not in opinion.
Wilk and Asirpa are important to her, but she thought Wilk was dead for years and, before Abashiri, she confirmed she wasn’t in love with him anymore, didn’t care about the gold and only looked forward to moving on, so that she and Tanigaki would think about their own future together.
For me, she was being absolutely genuine and, besides, Tanigaki already said during the hot spring arc against Toni Anji that his clearly obvious feelings for her were what was driving him to protect her. So she wouldn’t even need to pretend loving him if all she cared about was using him.
Similarly, her reason to run after Kiro once he had Wilk shot during Abashiri was first and foremost to warn and get Asirpa away from him, before they were alone and she ended up asking about why he’d even kill his old comrade.
Finally, there is no ground for an argument about her agenda being the crappiest especially compared to Kiro, Ogata, Hijikata or Tsurumi: sure she used them, but like literally everyone else in the group, and all the time it was to protect Wilk’s daughter from the man she thought had killed him (she never directly wanted revenge against Kiro in the story, just Asirpa’s safety).
I’m not excusing her, but ya know, “let’s protect a young girl from adults who are killing each other to get their hands on her” sounds overall better. xD In that aspect, it’s great Tanigaki and Inkarmat have found each other. It’s not about the gold, it’s about people and, currently, about Asirpa in particular.
Thanks again for your input, you guys! 🙂
Ops, I’ve explained myself really poorly so I apologize.
First of all I also believe Inkarmat feelings for Tanigaki are genuine at this point in the story.
Her attempt to use Tanigaki to which I referred was in the past.
As you pointed out Inkarmat is a character who developed but she started her interaction with
Tanigaki considering Tanigaki a pawn she could use.
I think
she slowly started to revise that idea because she slowly started to
grow feelings for Tanigaki. However when she had that discussion about
how Tanigaki should held Kiro responsible where she end up dead, she was
still unsure about her feelings for Tanigaki and torn about her feelings
for Wilk. She also had no idea past could be changed and believed she
would end up dead due to her prediction, so in that time period it probably makes sense to her she wanted her
death to at least serve to prove Kiro was guilty and that she hoped
Tanigaki would aid her in this matter.
We’ll see that even if I believe Inkarmat have developed genuine feelings for Tanigaki, she will
keep on cooperating with Tsurumi
behind Tanigaki’s back, using him to let Tsurumi know of their moves.
Inkarmat started to think she wants to walk toward the future WITH
Tanigaki after he saved her… but we see she’s still torn. It doesn’t mean her feelings for Tanigaki aren’t genuine, just that she didn’t change overnight. She didn’t wash away completely the person she was before, the actions she did before, the thoughts she had before… and that’s good because in life very few people manage to turn page abruptly.
Golden Kamuy is about slow development, not radical development.
However, and this I expressed really, really poorly, I didn’t mean to say that Inkarmat… let’s say grabbed the knife from Kiro’s hand and stabbed herself on purpose so as to set Tanigaki on murdering Kiro.
As I see it, the scene probably went as following:
1) Kiro threatens Inkarmat with his knife. He doesn’t mean to stab her, just to scare her into silence.
2) Inkarmat has no idea he’s only trying to intimidate her and anyway she’s too furious to think clearly. This guy has caused Wilk’s death and now he’s taking away Asirpa and blaming her to be a liar. She never planned to go down quietly and the situation is clearly not making her change her mind.
3) The two struggles and Inkarmat somehow managed to make Kiro fall on her. The scene is purposely dark so as to stop us from knowing what exactly happened.
4) Inkarmat and Kiro are on the ground. They’re both panting and sweating a lot, a hint they had a struggle before falling. Inkarmat is obviously in pain.
5) Either when they had struggled but more likely when they had fallen Kiro’s knife had ended up stabbing Inkarmat. It wasn’t planned, which is why Kiro says he didn’t mean to. Inkarmat got stabbed into her stomach, it seems. I can’t see the area clearly but a wound in such area is often deadly. We don’t know how deep Kiro ended up stabbing her but, fearing she’ll die before being able to tell he’s the culprit and that he’ll take away the knife, the only proof Kiro did stab her, she grabs the knife and holds it inside her. Look at her hand, it’s not how you position it to pull it out. What’s worse, she curls her body protectively around the knife likely hurting herself more, possibly even causing it to slid deeper. Note that since it’s implied by the box she believed she wouldn’t be alive to point out who attacked her, she’s not really being suicidal. She’s just trying to save the only way she has to prove Kiro murdered her.
Long story short, I think Inkarmat felt cornered and tried to act under the belief Kiro would have killed her anyway. He was pointing his knife to her neck, after all. In such situation, her LEGITTIMATE attempt to fight a man she believed wanted to kill her caused her unplanned stabbing (I don’t think Inkarmat wanted to be stabbed in that moment, she likely only wanted to fight Kiro), and her belief she would die due to having been stabbed in the stomach, caused her to hurt herself further in attempt to save the only mean she has to prove the culprit was Kiro.
While I think it was legittimate for Inkarmat to hope that if Tanigaki were to discover Kiro killed her he would do something, I’m not even sure she wanted Tanigaki to murder Kiro.
Ainu usually aren’t really fond of murders so I don’t think she ever wanted
that. She might have wanted him stopped, or punished the Ainu way, but probably not murdered.
Inkarmat is a cool woman. She’s trying to do her best to do what she believes is the right thing. Discovering the truth about Wilk’s death, protecting Asirpa… those aren’t bad goals.
I’m not really sure how I managed to give you the impression I thought her to be worse than the other boys as I didn’t really compared her with what the other boys are doing, one way or the other as that wasn’t my intention and I don’t even think poorly of her for using Tanigaki.
Tanigaki is a soldier under Tsurumi’s orders as far as she knows and she was told by Tsurumi to use him in such way and Tsurumi, being Tanigaki’s superior officer, IS ALLOWED to decide Tanigaki can be used in such way.
Yes, it’s not nice toward Tanigaki but Tanigaki is a soldier and he’s not supposed to discuss, Tsurumi is a commander and this sort of decisions are part of his job and Inkarmat had an agreement with Tsurumi so she technically was allowed to do what she did.
I hope it works a little more clearly now and I apologize for explaining myself poorly previously. Really, I didn’t mean to discount Inkarmat’s feelings for Tanigaki or to claim she just committed suicide to have Kiro murdered.
Regarding Tanigaki leaving, yes, I know it’s presented as being related to Asirpa. My point was your words had made me remember how Tanigaki was a man who believed in revenge and this belief might still linger inside him and might have pushed him into wanting to join Sugimoto.
As I said I’m not sure about this, it might be Tanigaki has made a radical turn over and would never pursue revenge at present time, but it might also be he hadn’t fully overcome this weakness and that this will be something he will have to face. I’m just curious to see if that’s the case. I like Tanigaki, I want him to manage to deal with all his lingering issues and finally feel able to return back home. Then I wouldn’t mind if, once he managed to go back to his relatives he would decide to then return to Hokkaido and settle up with Inkarmat as he seems to long to do.
I just want him to settle his issues first. It’s just me though.
Sorry, if it came out confusing and messy, I really had a long day at work and words aren’t really coming easily to me. Many, many apologies again.
@goldenkamuyhunting aww no worries and thanks for your answer, I always love reading your posts!
Also I didn’t mean at all that you had made any comparison between Inkarmat and the other men from the group.
Since we were on the subject, it was just my own input that, narratively, she was presented to be shady and manipulative, her link to Tsurumi being revealed fairly early on, so it’s natural to distrust her (namely any fan thinking she might still be manipulating is understandable). However it turned out that, in spite of it, her goal isn’t as selfish as most of the other characters’ from the group because she’s not motivated by the gold at all.
That’s what I like about her character and the way Noda Sensei writes her! She and Tanigaki both actually. They’re on Asirpa’s side, they really are, like Sugimoto and Shiraishi (maybe Ogata too in the future) and I’m quite enjoying that.
I also agree about slow development in GK and Inkarmat, just like Tanigaki, is consistent in trying to protect Asirpa, indicating Karafuto as where Kiro possibly left, etc. Even calling Tsurumi over to Abashiri she justified as protecting Asirpa.
On the point of Tanigaki, we share the same exact same thoughts so I have nothing to add! :))
I hope I managed to rectify my own confusing explanation, complex week ahead as well xD you caught me after a national mock up exam, haha.
Francis
hates outings that require her to dress up. All the maids have a hard time
getting her into frilly dresses, so Claudia has to intervene and dress Francis
herself…
That moment when you finally found someone in your life instead of trusting inanimate objects
the mirrored arcs of guts and casca and how they focus on their roles as weapons and soldiers and tools for powerful men. and how those roles have betrayed them and fitted them so badly. more and more so as they grow older and their personalities and beliefs start bursting out at the seams. they’re people. grouchy complicated loving people who in every respect are more than what they were meant to be. and who have so much more to be.
i need more classic feel-good animes, ones with actual diverse characters and shitty hotels and smoking aesthetics and well rounded villains with anti-hero protagonists that follow incredible story lines that don’t drag on for seasons and seasons
i.e. michiko to hatchin or black lagoon or even cowboy bebop, just ones that can be aesthetic and slow and really stick with you for years and years tbh
midnight-in-town 