And as we all know, OC was extremely sickthe next morning and couldn’t go on the boating trip. Honey might have been in the milk, but I’m betting there was something else in the milk. A lot of poisons are sweet, and are only lethal in certain amounts.
And then, fast forward to much later–
Why wouldn’t he be coughing and unspeakably ill in such deplorable, utterly filthy conditions? He’s a sickly child, after all. With an Aunt who is a doctor with the best care he could have had he was often sick at home. After all the abuse he was subjected to in such a terrible place for MONTHS– no coughing? Nothing?
This is the first thing RCiel says to his brother. He scolds him for being outside in the rain and delivers this line. Theory: Real Ciel was hiding some dark, dark turmoil as a small child. From everyone, even his own family, his twin, and his dear butler. Likely he had a serious case of munchausen by proxy.
While RC may or may not be the mastermind behind everything, he had problems well before he became a bizarre doll.
While OC was later shown having asthma attacks, it very well could have been asthma induced by the poisons he was subjected to as a small child, between the ages of five, to ten. If he was indeed poisoned for five years it surely had some effect on his health and lungs– but it would not be as predictable and as simple to treat as an ordinary case of naturally inherited asthma.
Medically-wise, I have a few problems.
First of all, are you familiar with
MSbP? In any way other than just by reading about it on wikipedia? Because what you’re hinting at and what we see in the story definitely does not sound likeMSbP.
Second, there is no way to fake asthma in any way or form – my brother has asthma, I know what I’m talking about. A doctor should know the clear difference between pure asthma and poison.
Plus, I don’t think any type of poison could induce asthma…
I’m not one to go against theories, I love theories, no matter how dark and messed up they are, but the foundation of this theory…
Aren’t we trying too hard to make this child too evil?
If not MSbP, then something extremely similar to it. He feels he has a caretaker role to his brother. He also loves his brother.
Antisocial Personality Disorder / Sociopathy is also possible.
I didn’t claim OC was faking asthma, or his respiratory issues.
One of the first symptoms of poisoning (many, many different kinds of poisons) is heavy coughing, and permanent lung damage. It looks like asthma to even a modern doctor that has no reason to suspect a child is being poisoned, it can be misdiagnosed as such. Especially when asthma runs in the family.
Again, I don’t think RC is evil even if all this ends up being true.
Hello Anon! Well, the last time we truly saw Lizzie was in ch116/117 and…
…She seemed more worried about stopping Seb from going to the labs rather than fighting against a real demon, so no, I don’t think that she knew at the time.
Of course, there is still a possibility that ever since ch117 Bravat or real!Ciel told her about Seb’s true nature (since Bravat definitely knows and real!Ciel seems to know as well that Seb is the demon who ate his soul 4 years ago), however, assuming that Lizzie is most likely seen as a pawn to hurt our!Ciel [x]…
…it would be wiser of Bravat and co not to tell her, in my opinion.
Lizzie is currently conflicted about making the right choice between her duty (real!Ciel) and her feelings (our!Ciel) [x][x] so, should Bravat tell her that our!Ciel sold his soul to a demon, she would probably be sadder at the idea of losing him and it could push her to disregard her duty in favor of her feelings.
It might not appear blatant, but I’m guessing that arguing that real!Ciel was in poor “health” is probably the argument that won Lizzie over when it comes to her running away from home:
She decided that she would be here for him, because he was in dire straits, and then she stayed because he is her rightful fiancé.
Lizzie is most likely the ace of Bravat’s side, because she definitely is the person our!Ciel cares the most about (it’s even how Bravat referred to her), which means that they can’t afford to have her changing sides. So, not telling Lizzie about Seb to keep her thinking that real!Ciel needs her the most (on top of her doing her duty) is the most logical.
Maybe she’ll know before the end of the arc though if, for instance, she changes sides and a very angry real!Ciel drops another bomb on her: the boy she loves not only lied about his identity but he also sold his soul to a demon and won’t live old.
TL;DR no, I don’t think she knows for now. 🙂
I hope it helps, have a nice weekend Anon!
Hello! It’s a very good and possible idea, though ch117 gave no hint of Elizabeth feeling particularly angry at Sebastian in my opinion, except maybe for…
this scene.
You can hardly even say that she meant to kill him though: she knew he was strong so she attacked him because he was trespassing and her only reason for doing so was because she was being Gandalf 2.0 “I shall not let you pass”.
In my opinion, all she wanted was to protect the lab, most likely because she was told that it was very important to real!Ciel’s survival (since it has all the blood and all), but maybe you’re right and the “you dare ask why” part is supposed to hint that real!Ciel/Bravat told her that Seb “did something to real!Ciel, 4 years ago”.
It’s possible, thanks for sharing your thoughts Anon! 🙂 Have a nice day.
Hey Anon, as I was saying just above, frankly I’m not sure about “killing intents”. First of all, she was obviously very confused, but for me the reason she attacked Seb was
because she was aware of how strong he was
and she did it to protect the labs, for real!Ciel’s sake.
It doesn’t mean that she doesn’t care about our!Ciel anymore, it just means that at the time she thought she had no choice when she took the decision to be by real!Ciel’s side (even if we know that it makes her unhappy). Without attacking Sebastian in order to stop him, he surely would have wasted no time discarding her to the side to go to the labs. And again I just don’t think she knew he was a demon in ch117 because she didn’t show fear for her sake, which she should have if she had known he was a demon.
Anyway, Anon, Lizzie is bound not to be friendly with Sebastian until the end of the manga. She might not know about his nature or the contract with our!Ciel right now but, narratively speaking, she’s bound to know at some point and, when she finds out, she won’t trust or like Sebastian anymore.
TL;DR I think she attacked Seb in ch117 because her goal at the time was “protecting the labs” (and thus helping real!Ciel by doing so). She might have been told that Seb did something to real!Ciel 4 years ago, but I don’t think she was in to kill him, that she knows he’s a demon or about the contract.
Also Lizzie definitely still cares about our!Ciel. 😉
I hope it helps, have a nice day!
It’s okay Anon 🙂 I see which scene you’re talking about:
How about what the second Anon said above as an explanation then? Lizzie doesn’t know that Seb is a demon or about the contract but Real!Ciel told her…
…that Seb did something to him 4 years ago, without telling her the entire truth.
Telling Lizzie that Seb is a demon or that our!Ciel sold his soul to him wouldn’t be the wisest move to make
(in my opinion)
for reasons I explained in the first post. However, if Lizzie is really a pawn to use against our!Ciel, then she’s definitely emotionally manipulated as well.
So, real!Ciel (or Bravat) could have said that Seb did something to him, or even worse, that our!Ciel allied with Seb in order to get rid of him (which is a hugely distorted version of the truth), which would explain why Lizzie is so heartbroken and depressed.
Think about it, it might not be just the fact that our!Ciel lied that’s making Lizzie so sad: I wouldn’t be surprised if real!Ciel had distorted the truth to make her choose his side, since she’s the best person to hurt our!Ciel (here’s a friendly reminder that the twin is a villain by the way [x]).
Back to your question, with this theory and her being confused and emotionally exhausted in mind, maybe she almost went for a kill then. It’s definitely possible, all I’m saying is that I doubt her heart was 100% into it, due to her being completely lost as to what to do and feel for a long time.
Overall, the interpretation of ch117 depends on what exactly Bravat/Real!Ciel told Lizzie about our!Ciel and Seb. Nonetheless, I hope this explanation works a little better for you?
Have a nice day Anon. 🙂
Post from last year but reblogging because on point with the latest chapter.
I said this before but I still think that R!Ciel is out to isolate O!Ciel in order to make himself look as O!Ciel’s only ally and make O!Ciel dependent on him. What I can’t put my finger on just yet, is if he’s doing it because of his yandere tendencies and thus out of genuine if twisted love for O!Ciel… or because he actually is bitter about what happened and wants to have revenge on him. So far, it looks as if it were the former but it’d be interested if it were the latter (I love angst).
I normally don’t theorize if it’s not directly related to Lizzy/Cielizzy, but my money (like a lot of people’s) is on R!Ciel and Undertaker being behind the anonymous call. Whether it was them themselves or they asked someone else to do it, I have no clue. But the culprit would still be them either way.
There is the fact that they’re the only ones to not look surprised when everyone barges in. But aside that, what better way to make his grand return than when his little brother is mind broken, and by solving a crime that R!Ciel/Undertaker themselves started?
Seriously, it’s brilliant.
They already got what they needed from Bravat, and they better than anyone know how he works – since they are the ones who set all this up. So by helping solve their own crime – technically committed by someone else – R!Ciel wouldn’t only been retaking his place as Earl Phantomhive, but also showing he’s competent to be the Queen’s Watchdog.
I knew Lizzy was in the manor all along and that she’d be saved for last!! I wonder how much she heard? And how much of R!Ciel/O!Ciel’s story was even said aloud, anyway? The flashback went on for so long that now everything is blurry for me lol
In either case, now is when things will get truly
interesting because ohhh boy can I see R!Ciel using Lizzy in all the ways he sees fit to further break and isolate O!Ciel.
I’m eager to see R!Ciel and Lizzy interact because I wonder if he’s going to bother to put of the façade of a loving fiancee, or if he’s not even going to bother to hide his manipulations from her. I’m also wondering if he still harbors any sort of affection for her, or if his status as a bizarre doll prevents it and now all his feelings are reserved towards his little brother.
My girl is finally in the same room as the two of them. I’m so excited I can barely wait for next month.
Her face though.
Oh God. Her face. Lizzy is so damn hurt. She’s spent the entire arc alone and miserable and who knows all the stuff R!Ciel and the others fed her.
But it’s extremely telling that despite all that, despite what she knows and doesn’t know – Lizzy still looks heartbroken to not be on O!Ciel’s side.
Hi Anon! Okay so, seeing how Ciel totally blames himself for what happened to his brother…
I don’t think he will be able to face him at first, so I doubt he’ll be able to order Seb to take care of his twin either.
In fact, I hope that Seb will be absolutely irrelevant to how this confrontation will turn out for our!Ciel, because we know he’s not particularly good at being sensitive and helpful whenever our!Ciel faces his trauma (ch95 anyone? -_-).
It’s as I wrote here, I think this arc is supposed to help our!Ciel with confronting most of his issues surrounding his trauma and what happened with his brother, so I don’t see how Seb is supposed to be the means to an end here (unlike all the previous arcs before), not when he’s the one who ate the twin’s soul in the first place.
No, in my opinion, if the twin is to die before this arc ends, then I think it’d make a lot of sense for him to be stopped by anyone but Seb.
Obviously, right now the most symbolic ending for the twin would be to be stopped by our!Ciel himself, since that’d also imply that our!Ciel found enough strength within himself to face his brother despite how much he was blaming himself for his death, and a catalyst to such an ending could be Lizzie herself.
I mean, if the twin hurts/allows someone to hurt Lizzie (which I think is likely to happen) then…
…in my opinion it could be shocking and despairing enough that our!Ciel would realize he has to stop his brother.
Other candidates for the same job would be Soma (since the twin attacked him and Agni), Lizzie herself (since she realized a while ago in ch113 that she “couldn’t save the twin”), Ed possibly (if he’s angry enough should Lizzie be hurt) or Tanaka (since surely he’d notice that the twin hardly is the boy he used to be).
So nope, Seb killing the twin again would just… not help our!Ciel with the fact he’s constantly blaming himself for what happened to his brother. Seb can go face the other star Lords (like Polaris, who’s real!Ciel’s butler and who apparently was strong enough to kill Agni), or the mastermind behind the arc (UT? someone else?), but the twin isn’t going to be his call in my opinion.
I hope it answers your question, have a nice day Anon!
Bringing this back because I keep mentioning this but I never expand, so when I say “it’s likely (in my opinion) that Lizzie might get hurt”, that’s what I mean:
I’m pretty sure we discussed it before, but these scenes really make me think that, instead of anemia because she possibly gave some of her blood, Lizzie is going to get hurt (shot?) at a later point in the arc and will lose a lot of blood as a result, enough so that Sieglinde will need to use Wolfram’s for transfusing her.
Of course it’s just a theory, but as I explained above, I think this might happen precisely because the twin isn’t the boy he used to be and only seems to care about staying with our!Ciel, so when things escalate, depending on what Lizzie will do she might end up getting the same treatment as Soma and Agni. ://
Many already noticed:
+
= there is a good chance now that Lizzie may be hurt badly enough (get shot?) that Sieglinde will need to save her by transfusing her with Wolfram’s blood. :///
I’d just like to point out that when we saw Soma jump to the wrong conclusion after Agni was murdered, there were very few people hating on him for it. Yet when Lizzy calls OCiel a liar for actually lying to her for three years, fans are out for her blood.
That’s disappointing.
I added it on other posts and I want to add it to yours too, if you don’t mind. :3 Not only do you make an absolutely valid point, but also… in my opinion we don’t know a single thing about Lizzie’s life for these past months.
Friendly reminder that Lizzie got “what’s supposed to be the truth” from real!Ciel, Bravat and UT and, not only did they kill people to get blood for some experiments, but one is dead and not reliable, another doesn’t even know our!Ciel and UT is totally lost in the idea that bringing back the dead should solve everyone’s problem including our!Ciel’s.
So who can vouch that Lizzie actually knows anything close to the truth about 4 years ago when our!Ciel is the only one who knows the truth and he certainly never mentioned anything?
Our!Ciel and Lizzie just need to honestly talk: she doesn’t side with either twin in full recognition as long as she doesn’t get to know what the real story is (and the real story is that Ciel suffered from survivor’s guilt and didn’t want to disappoint what was left of his family by being the one to come back)
And let me tell you, since Sensei already said that Lizzie was in love with our!Ciel, if anyone thinks that she’s actually going to side with the twin 5ever, you’re in for a plot twist. 😉
midnight-in-town 